- Food: Go to the cheapest store that still has normal vegtables, cook for yourself whenever possible, don't buy overly expensive stuff like avokados or good cheese.
- Other necessities: only buy when broken, google for 3 hours to find the cheapest thing that won't break all too easily or go 2nd hand. Save at least 1000 bucks in case something big like your laptop breaks.
Really depends on what you need of course. My laptops always died of hardware failure/milage (while the desktops kept working) after 4-5 years and on the 2nd or 3rd battery (daily commute with a laptop does lower the life-time considerably I think).
I feel like I've saved enough money going vegetarian to afford the good cheese and avocados. (I'll never quit dairy. That's a quality of life thing for me.)
in reply to "doingmything" (comment is flagged dead but I want to answer non the less)
>> Not sure I'd want to continue living after making all these adjustments. What's the point?
This is some minimum to live without much worries, everything above can go towards security, culture, good food and entertainment. What remains near to free: creating, learning, loving, socialising and helping others. Even the free things need time though, so one might also take exchange having less income for more time to do nice things.
For folks here, I like ledger-cli (and that family of tools) over excel.
1) It's designed for tracking finances.
2) It's plaintext so amenable to scripting and custom reporting using any of your favorite tools and languages.
3) It's reporting system is quite capable and paired with tmux and emacs I have a nice homemade financial dashboard. On one pane is an emacs instance for data entry. In others are various reports executed using watch. If you include stocks and other investments, you can use a pricedb file and have an up to date (set mine up for daily price downloads) view of your entire financial portfolio.
Paired with org-mode with custom PENDING/CLEARED todo states and noweb/tangle of babel code blocks, you can make a pretty effective workflow without much effort. And I prefer this over automated trackers like Mint or something where it's easy to ignore it for a few days and still have correct information, but not know where your money went. (I do use Mint, it's a convenient place to get aggregated data from the half dozen or so institutions holding different parts of my assets or debts).
Articles like this are helpful for some ideas. However I disagree with the methodology used(mandatory shopping list, cash only...), although maybe it works for impulsive people.
It's good to have a shopping list and to be conscious of your wealth/income. However in my opinion the best tool is have a set of principles.
Thinking only about money will often fail you. It's better to think: Given my requirements what is the most cost effective product? You probably don't want to waste time having to fix bad quality items, or going to work with a dirty shirt because your detergent is worthless. Or buying a cheap thing to realize that it was crap and having to buy the expensive product later on anyways(after having lost the money you put on the cheap thing).
On some products, like tools or a car, you should ask yourself: Will this product ever let me down? How long will it last? A lifetime? Keep in mind that pricey products can be good deals too.
On commodity goods spend less, on everything else spend smarter.
I'd say there's a time and place for cheapest-possible, and for buy-it-for-life quality. I own a bunch of cheapest-possible tools that I bought when I was younger and poorer and just starting out on my own. The tools have been useful and allowed me to repair stuff around the house so they've definitely improved my life, but they won't last forever.
As they break or wear out over the years, I'm slowly replacing them with top-quality stuff. However, I would NOT have wanted to "buy it for life" when I was first starting out (even if I could've afforded it), because I didn't know my own long-term needs well enough to predict which tools I'd actually need and use often, and what features I'd want in them.
If you buy good quality stuff that's actually the wrong stuff for your needs ("why do I even own this band saw that I never use?"), it doesn't matter how good the quality is -- it's still wasteful. So I'd say there can be a time and place for the cheapest possible thing -- and hey, my $5 yard sale circular saw is still going strong after all these years, even if it makes a burning smell....
Yep, I love that method. Buy quality basics (screwdriver set, adjustable wrench), then for everything else go to harbor freight as needed. If the harbor freight version breaks, you know you use it enough to justify a quality version.
I like the ~$10 USD toolset from Ikea. It includes a hammer, multi-tip screwdriver, adjustable wrench, and a pair of pliers. For 95% of the tool-needing things I do around the house, these tools are sufficient.
Impulsive or not, humans are bad at estimating. The purpose of explicit shopping lists and cash only budgeting is to, first, cap spending to a predetermined amount, making a budget much easier to adhere to, and second, eliminate the temptation to cheat.
Does everyone need these tools to help enforce discipline? Maybe not. But given the average amount of savings and debt out there, I'm gonna guess most can benefit from any help they can get.
In essence, your argument is "people should just be smarter". Evidence shows that kind of simplistic, idealistic approach just doesn't work.
I dislike making special trips to the ATM, and carrying around bucket loads of coins in my pockets., so I took the opposite approach.
I put my weekly expenses on a single credit card, with the caveat that I have to pay it off every week. I have a small savings account into which I set aside cash for fun things. If my weekly credit card bill is over the limit, I have to take the money out of my fun savings account, which I don't like doing, so I somehow mentally naturally find a way to spend less to avoid dipping into savings. It took me a few weeks to get used to it, and now it works great.
Another advantage s that my intermittent expenses which require a credit card, such as Lyft rides and refills on my pre-paid public transit card, now appear of the same credit card as my trips to Chipotle & Walgreens.
I wonder, in the long run, how sustainable something like this is in the long run. Take food, for example - one can go without it, or eat nutritionally poor stuff for a few weeks, probably without major effect. But it seems like optimizing for money means it will eventually take its toll - and that could lead to problems in the long term.
(A single copay could eat half a week on this system.)
Off topic but my hatred for AMP is illustrated here as this looks like a link to Google but is instead The Atlantic. The latter is far more compelling for me to click than the former.
I don't understand how credit card implies going into debt for many people. I pay mine off every month and all is good. It would never occur to me to leave a balance and pay 20% or whatever interest.
As a European I don't underdtand why people are actually using credit cards. Over here, most people just buy stuff in stores with their EC card (which should be similar to a debit card in the States?). This way I can't spend money I actually don't have and I don't have to take care of any monthly balance.
I use a credit card for online payment only. I don't like the idea of a debit card stored online because it is a direct link to my bank account. A credit card gives me a bit more protection and I make sure I pay it off every month.
FYI I got a "prepaid" card for that - it's a card I use for online payments only - it has no credit and it doesn't have access to my account funds - I need to manually transfer money when I want to use it to pay for something. If it ever gets stolen online there's nothing on it unless I'm right about to purchase something and I always put in the exact ammount I'm about to pay so I can't get overcharged or some other silliness.
The advantage of CCs in the US is that transactions are against your bank, not your money. Debit cards are debited from your account immediately, so you can't as easily reverse charges in the event of fraud, mischarges, etc.
But then, it is not that easy to defraud the EC cards, since you need the physical card to make a payment with them (in addition to a PIN that is usually needed to authorize the payment).
This can apply to online purchases as well. A charge from buying something from ebay, for instance, can be charged back if you end up not getting the item, broken, etc. It's probably harder to get your money back in a case like that with a debit card.
Thats certainly true. Usually, these cases are done with money transfers in Europe, which is not really reversible (on the other hand, this is where many people use Paypal, which also gives you the money-back feature of a CC).
In the US, it's a combination of factors. Personally, I receive unlimited 2% cash back with my credit card, which is enough of an incentive for me to use it wherever I can. In addition, it helps me build my credit score, which is a system that has a lot of issues but is not one I'm in a position to ignore. I don't know about the situation in Europe though, are there similar benefits for non-credit cards (debit cards), and is the credit score system as important?
The credit system is not important. When I came to the US I didn't even know what "building credit" means. To me being creditworthy meant not to have debt.
Sufficient (positive) net worth definitely makes someone creditworthy. But, most borrowers aren't leveraging major assets like companies or investors or others might. What they're leveraging is their future earnings. "I need $10,000 today to buy this car, and over the next 3 years I'll pay it off at X% interest." Having a history of using credit effectively in this manner (paying it off on time being the big issue) is the only way that someone without a significant (positive) net worth can demonstrate to a lender that they're creditworthy.
I am German and use a credit card in the US like you use an EC card. I think it's a cultural thing. When I grew up it simply was inconceivable to buy things like Christmas presents on credit. I have never bought a car on credit either. In the US getting a loan is just much more accepted. Even people who could easily save up for a car still buy it on credit. And they buy two sizes bigger than I do (we have plenty of young engineers driving cars like a BMW 328i).
If you don't have a credit history in the U.S., you are excluded from a lot of things, including registering for Obamacare or Medicaid in some states, and get flagged as a fraud risk or actively banned from a variety of services including Amazon Payments, because so many services use Experian as an identity verification service. If you don't have a credit history, you aren't in their system, and so don't exist in their eyes.
Australian here, I use a credit card for purchases (even though I pay it off in full every month) because of the Frequent Flyer points I earn. I've already used them for one 3-month Round The World trip. Amex cards usually have a ton of other benefits too.
There's also better fraud protection on Credit Cards over debit cards. Debit cards the money is taken from your account immediately, credit cards it's corrected before you have to pay your card bill.
In France, Poland, Italy credit cards are common, as are debit ones. It does not make much of a difference, they draw money from your account either immediately or after some time. For all the typical cards, there is no" minimal payment", you may all the debt.
If you have the potential for debt (with a credit card you do, with cash or debit card you don't), then in a bad month you add on stuff that you need. Or in a stupid month you add on things that you don't. Then you have a balance you can't pay off. If you're using cash/debit, you can't spend money you don't have yet.
For many people the credit card is a way of buying things with next week's paycheck. Yes, they can normally pay it off, but not always. They're just against the edge of debt by living off future earnings.
This. I want a new car, but I don't want to give up my cash reserves to buy one, nor do I want a new car payment. My 10 year old car gets me to work, so I keep on driving it and probably will until the wheels fall off.
I've quit my job twice now to make huge Overland trips (AK->Argentina, now around Africa for two years), all funded by saving money. The tips in this article are good, though I would go much, much further.
My biggest advice is not to think in terms of dollars when looking at a price tag - think in terms of the number of hours of your life you are spending to purchase something. Once you calculate your "real" salary (taking into account taxes, commute expenses, etc. etc.) it turns out you have to sit at work for a LOT of hours to afford a big screen TV. All of a sudden it's not so attractive, and it's easy to not buy one.
Extend that across all spending, and soon you really won't be spending much at all.
I'm so passionate about helping other people do it I even write an e-book on the topic - Work Less to Live Your Dreams[1]
$60/week isn't bad, though I'm not sure quite how that is in NYC. In the Chicago suburbs I feed two of us on something around that level (including the TP as well), and that's with dietary concerns as well.
A lot of how much you can save like this depends on your situation. If you have storage space and decent cooking facilities, it's a LOT easier because you can have some reserve to allow you to take advantage of economies of scale and opportunities like that 20 pound bag of rice on sale for $6. Similarly, if you have a full-size refrigerator and freezer you can pretty easily make a week's worth (or more) of meals to take to work.
It's also important to have a good grasp of how much each individual meal costs, because you may realize that some less-expensive options may actually be preferable. That gluten-free bagel plus cream cheese? That's $1.50+, or would you prefer oatmeal, a couple of breakfast sausages, and a couple of eggs over the top of that? That easily clocks in at under $1, including with your choice of rolled or steel-cut gluten-free oatmeal (and if you don't care about gluten it's even less), and it takes almost no extra time in the morning over toasting and cheesing a bagel if you've pre-made the oatmeal. It's worth not getting carried away with this though - for some things it's just worth getting the more expensive option because making it at home takes more time or energy than you want to spend.
Knowing your cost of getting things is also important - don't drive 5 miles to save $0.50 on milk, because you're spending that much extra on gas. This is where shopping lists are important, as well as having a good feel for typical prices at different stores if you have multiple shopping options. If you know you're doing your shopping for the week at a store the cost of getting there is less of a factor, and conversely if you know cost of getting there is a concern then you'll want to avoid forgetting something that you have to run back out for (hence the list).
Finally, if you can stockpile some things and have multiple shopping options it's well worth keeping an eye on sales flyers and per-store discounts. Using myself and Meijer as an example, in January so far I've saved $12.34 using electronic coupons through their "mPerks" app and another 6.25 using paper coupons (either printed at checkout or on product packages, I'm not a couponer), plus $47 off of the regular prices of items by getting them when they're on sale - and I've only spent $128 there so far this month. I rarely buy items just because they're on sale, so that's almost all savings on items that I'd have been purchasing anyway.
I racked up $25K of credit card debt by not tracking my spending and then building up so much fear around my finances that I was afraid to check my accounts.
While the tips mentioned are solid, some people need more extreme options.
My "diet" involved four months of sleeping in the woods, naming porn flicks for cash, selling other people's restaurants (no license necessary), and giving up alcohol and eating out.
Too extreme for most? Yes. But if you're single / have few responsibilities (i.e., young millennials) it might work for you.
47 comments
[ 8.2 ms ] story [ 307 ms ] thread- Food: Go to the cheapest store that still has normal vegtables, cook for yourself whenever possible, don't buy overly expensive stuff like avokados or good cheese.
- Transportation: Bike/Foot
- Bakery/Concerts/Vacation/Cinema/Bars/mobile-internet etc: don't
- Accomodation: shared
- Other necessities: only buy when broken, google for 3 hours to find the cheapest thing that won't break all too easily or go 2nd hand. Save at least 1000 bucks in case something big like your laptop breaks.
Perhaps buy a $400 used laptop instead
dairy industry cows only live for four
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dairy_cattle
>> Not sure I'd want to continue living after making all these adjustments. What's the point?
This is some minimum to live without much worries, everything above can go towards security, culture, good food and entertainment. What remains near to free: creating, learning, loving, socialising and helping others. Even the free things need time though, so one might also take exchange having less income for more time to do nice things.
I can always make more money.
I can't make more time.
1) It's designed for tracking finances.
2) It's plaintext so amenable to scripting and custom reporting using any of your favorite tools and languages.
3) It's reporting system is quite capable and paired with tmux and emacs I have a nice homemade financial dashboard. On one pane is an emacs instance for data entry. In others are various reports executed using watch. If you include stocks and other investments, you can use a pricedb file and have an up to date (set mine up for daily price downloads) view of your entire financial portfolio.
EDIT: I was on mobile earlier.
Ledger link: http://www.ledger-cli.org
Plaintext Accounting: http://plaintextaccounting.org
Paired with org-mode with custom PENDING/CLEARED todo states and noweb/tangle of babel code blocks, you can make a pretty effective workflow without much effort. And I prefer this over automated trackers like Mint or something where it's easy to ignore it for a few days and still have correct information, but not know where your money went. (I do use Mint, it's a convenient place to get aggregated data from the half dozen or so institutions holding different parts of my assets or debts).
It's good to have a shopping list and to be conscious of your wealth/income. However in my opinion the best tool is have a set of principles.
Thinking only about money will often fail you. It's better to think: Given my requirements what is the most cost effective product? You probably don't want to waste time having to fix bad quality items, or going to work with a dirty shirt because your detergent is worthless. Or buying a cheap thing to realize that it was crap and having to buy the expensive product later on anyways(after having lost the money you put on the cheap thing).
On some products, like tools or a car, you should ask yourself: Will this product ever let me down? How long will it last? A lifetime? Keep in mind that pricey products can be good deals too.
On commodity goods spend less, on everything else spend smarter.
As they break or wear out over the years, I'm slowly replacing them with top-quality stuff. However, I would NOT have wanted to "buy it for life" when I was first starting out (even if I could've afforded it), because I didn't know my own long-term needs well enough to predict which tools I'd actually need and use often, and what features I'd want in them.
If you buy good quality stuff that's actually the wrong stuff for your needs ("why do I even own this band saw that I never use?"), it doesn't matter how good the quality is -- it's still wasteful. So I'd say there can be a time and place for the cheapest possible thing -- and hey, my $5 yard sale circular saw is still going strong after all these years, even if it makes a burning smell....
Impulsive or not, humans are bad at estimating. The purpose of explicit shopping lists and cash only budgeting is to, first, cap spending to a predetermined amount, making a budget much easier to adhere to, and second, eliminate the temptation to cheat.
Does everyone need these tools to help enforce discipline? Maybe not. But given the average amount of savings and debt out there, I'm gonna guess most can benefit from any help they can get.
In essence, your argument is "people should just be smarter". Evidence shows that kind of simplistic, idealistic approach just doesn't work.
I can confirm that it works very well (in fact it's the only thing that has ever worked for me).
I put my weekly expenses on a single credit card, with the caveat that I have to pay it off every week. I have a small savings account into which I set aside cash for fun things. If my weekly credit card bill is over the limit, I have to take the money out of my fun savings account, which I don't like doing, so I somehow mentally naturally find a way to spend less to avoid dipping into savings. It took me a few weeks to get used to it, and now it works great.
Another advantage s that my intermittent expenses which require a credit card, such as Lyft rides and refills on my pre-paid public transit card, now appear of the same credit card as my trips to Chipotle & Walgreens.
(A single copay could eat half a week on this system.)
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2009/11/forgive-...
not paywalled as far as I can see.
FYI I got a "prepaid" card for that - it's a card I use for online payments only - it has no credit and it doesn't have access to my account funds - I need to manually transfer money when I want to use it to pay for something. If it ever gets stolen online there's nothing on it unless I'm right about to purchase something and I always put in the exact ammount I'm about to pay so I can't get overcharged or some other silliness.
To a lender being creditworthy means having a history of managing debt correctly.
There's also better fraud protection on Credit Cards over debit cards. Debit cards the money is taken from your account immediately, credit cards it's corrected before you have to pay your card bill.
In France, Poland, Italy credit cards are common, as are debit ones. It does not make much of a difference, they draw money from your account either immediately or after some time. For all the typical cards, there is no" minimal payment", you may all the debt.
For many people the credit card is a way of buying things with next week's paycheck. Yes, they can normally pay it off, but not always. They're just against the edge of debt by living off future earnings.
My biggest advice is not to think in terms of dollars when looking at a price tag - think in terms of the number of hours of your life you are spending to purchase something. Once you calculate your "real" salary (taking into account taxes, commute expenses, etc. etc.) it turns out you have to sit at work for a LOT of hours to afford a big screen TV. All of a sudden it's not so attractive, and it's easy to not buy one.
Extend that across all spending, and soon you really won't be spending much at all.
I'm so passionate about helping other people do it I even write an e-book on the topic - Work Less to Live Your Dreams[1]
[1] http://amzn.to/2kyrCM3
I guess 50 hours can still be a lot though.
A lot of how much you can save like this depends on your situation. If you have storage space and decent cooking facilities, it's a LOT easier because you can have some reserve to allow you to take advantage of economies of scale and opportunities like that 20 pound bag of rice on sale for $6. Similarly, if you have a full-size refrigerator and freezer you can pretty easily make a week's worth (or more) of meals to take to work.
It's also important to have a good grasp of how much each individual meal costs, because you may realize that some less-expensive options may actually be preferable. That gluten-free bagel plus cream cheese? That's $1.50+, or would you prefer oatmeal, a couple of breakfast sausages, and a couple of eggs over the top of that? That easily clocks in at under $1, including with your choice of rolled or steel-cut gluten-free oatmeal (and if you don't care about gluten it's even less), and it takes almost no extra time in the morning over toasting and cheesing a bagel if you've pre-made the oatmeal. It's worth not getting carried away with this though - for some things it's just worth getting the more expensive option because making it at home takes more time or energy than you want to spend.
Knowing your cost of getting things is also important - don't drive 5 miles to save $0.50 on milk, because you're spending that much extra on gas. This is where shopping lists are important, as well as having a good feel for typical prices at different stores if you have multiple shopping options. If you know you're doing your shopping for the week at a store the cost of getting there is less of a factor, and conversely if you know cost of getting there is a concern then you'll want to avoid forgetting something that you have to run back out for (hence the list).
Finally, if you can stockpile some things and have multiple shopping options it's well worth keeping an eye on sales flyers and per-store discounts. Using myself and Meijer as an example, in January so far I've saved $12.34 using electronic coupons through their "mPerks" app and another 6.25 using paper coupons (either printed at checkout or on product packages, I'm not a couponer), plus $47 off of the regular prices of items by getting them when they're on sale - and I've only spent $128 there so far this month. I rarely buy items just because they're on sale, so that's almost all savings on items that I'd have been purchasing anyway.
While the tips mentioned are solid, some people need more extreme options.
My "diet" involved four months of sleeping in the woods, naming porn flicks for cash, selling other people's restaurants (no license necessary), and giving up alcohol and eating out.
Too extreme for most? Yes. But if you're single / have few responsibilities (i.e., young millennials) it might work for you.
I wrote a step by step book on this subject called Debt Destroyer: https://www.amazon.com/Debt-Destroyer-Achieve-Financial-Free...