Ask HN: Are you going to cancel travel plans into the US?
I was thinking of going to US Pycon. My company here in Montréal has already bought my ticket. However, I'm Mexican, one of the currently targetted people, and it fills me with trepidation to try to visit the US at this time. I may also need to buy a new visitor visa. The US has demonstrated that it will unilaterally revoke permission to go or be there.
I also feel like I'm morally obligated to make some kind of stand about not visiting the US right now, even if everything goes OK for me.
What do you think? Are you going to the US?
28 comments
[ 3.3 ms ] story [ 67.5 ms ] threadIs unlikely we will have any problems getting into the US, but that being said things could change literally overnight.
There is a good chance I will not go to the Magento conference this year just out principle.
This is factually incorrect. The recent executive order bans the return of legal residents with green cards (from Muslim majority countries) who were out of the country at the time the order was issued. See, for example, this story from the New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/28/us/refugees-detained-at-u...
I am based in Australia, which is NOT one of the countries on the 'ban' list, however yesterday, there was some confusion in our local media that the reciprocal visa agreement was going to be suspended as well, necessitating a visit to a local US embassy for a one on one meeting to apply for a holiday/visitor visa to the US. In my case, that would have meant a 3000km flight to get to the nearest US embassy - added cost and time even before I knew I could fly to the US.
Thankfully, that seems to be negated now, and the reciprocal visa agreement still stands, but section 2(f.) and section 10 of the new orders make that fairly tenuous still, IMO. Those sections basically say "be nice, or else find yourself on the ban list as well". Normally I would consider these just formalities and nothing to worry about, but the conduct of the current administration has meant that I take these conditions with a grain of salt and expect them to be used as leverage at some point.
So, my abstaining from travelling to the US would be in the order of 50% protest at the actions of the current administration, 40% actual fear for my safety while there (I am of sub-continental heritage) and 10% just not willing to put up with the hassle and cost of international travel in this day and age.
At best, this is stupid posturing--at worst, it's just plain stupid. How would a boycott lead to Trump's removal? How would cutting yourself off from the American economy hurt Trump?
Boycotting US goods would affect one of the corner stones of Trump's campaign of bringing back jobs/improving US economy. A poor economy would lead people to eventually tire of Trump antics and his methods eventually leading to voting him ( and possibly those associated with him) out office
Specific oxes would be gored, but it would be a wash, overall.
The categories of people who're affected by the travel ban tend to cost the United States money in terms of public assistance, et. al. My guess is that the net economic impact - especially when considering the cost of the crimes that demographic will no longer be able to commit within the United States - will be positive.
I'd be grateful if you could cite the specific illegal - i.e., against specific sections of the US Code - actions President Trump has taken since he's been in office. Chapter and verse, please.
Keep in mind that just because you don't like what he's doing doesn't make it illegal.
Once local shopkeepers, business owners and workers realise that the 'brain drain' caused by these policies, as well as the lack of tourists spending dollars in their establishments etc. is causing actual pain to their hip pockets, then they may realise that being a part of the global community may be a good thing, and the isolationist policies not so much.
By the same token, I would ask you how US imposed economic sanctions on other countries are expected to work to depose the leader of those said countries? Sanctions usually affect the general population who usually have nothing to do with their leader's actions. We end up with children and other innocents dying from starvation or disease while the regime continues unabated.
The different with the US is that (hopefully), the people can have sway over the President's actions, and take action themselves to effect change.
It's always done this, and has always done this. Every other country in the world has too--it's part of what makes a sovereign state sovereign.
> I also feel like I'm morally obligated to make some kind of stand about not visiting the US right now, even if everything goes OK for me.
Why do you feel you are morally obligated to do this, exactly?
As for taking an ideological stance: weigh this choice yourself. It's doubtful that one person's protest will make an impact, but if you start or participate in a movement such that the social or economic impact is felt, you may have accomplished something. But don't count on it. Instead, investigate his previous tweets (luckily public info) and construct a profile of how you think he'll respond. I believe that Trump is not likely to be swayed by reason or protest, and is instead more prone to reactionary escalation.
But, as a resident alien (green card holder) from a boring, mostly-inconsequential European country, I won't be leaving the States just in case.
Good idea. You never know when Putin might need a favor.
Maybe in your echo chamber he is unpopular. I could say the same of Obama in my neck of the woods.
[1] https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/3-days-into-trumps-pres...