HN Explorer

Ask HN: Can we find out why a specific ad appears in our Facebook feed?

41 points by lampzzy ↗ HN
Last week I went to a restaurant with some friends and while checking the menu we saw that there was a cocktail with Campari (alcoholic liqueur) - this triggered a 30 sec conversation about the drink. Following day I open my FB feed and something weird happened - there was a Campari ad just in front of me! In the last months of my online life I didn't search for Campari, cocktails, beverages or anything related so I think it would be great if there was a way of finding why that ad end up there!

64 comments

[ 2.1 ms ] story [ 171 ms ] thread
heldrida
I wonder the same too; I get a lot of weird stuff, that I talked about, but have NOT put down in text messages, emails, etc. I took some screenshots, to prove it and share with friends later. I end up doing some research and apparently is not related from voice/keywords. Officially addressed in the following link: http://newsroom.fb.com/news/h/facebook-does-not-use-your-pho...

Other references: http://marketingland.com/no-what-facebook-hears-on-your-phon... http://www.computerworld.com/article/3079412/security/facebo...

cm2012
Press "x" on the ad. There's an option to see how you're being targeted.
thatwebdude
It's a dropdown arrow for me, but yes this gives a pretty good example of why you were targeted if you select the link asking "Why am I seeing this ad?" (Or something like that phrase)
christocracy
Perhaps you're not the only ones at this restaurant to notice and discuss this same cocktail, such that Facebook has learned of a "Campari thing" from others before you?

I assume FB would have learned several friends have joined together in the same location.

lazzlazzlazz
"Facebook does not use your phone's microphone for ads or News Feed stories."

http://newsroom.fb.com/news/h/facebook-does-not-use-your-pho...

The phenomenon you're observing is due to various interesting human psychological quirks, such as priming effects.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priming_(psychology)

rawnlq
Frequency illusion or Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon is probably a better term to search for: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Frequency_illusion

But I don't think it's chance here. I think the facebook app has location access and if so they are definitely using it (e.g., the place might be popular for campari, your mutual friend appearing at the same location might've searched/wrote about it, etc).

For example google is pretty good with pinpointing exactly which restaurant I went to: https://www.google.com/maps/timeline

bshimmin
Chance is a funny thing.

I was once reading Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail '72 by Hunter S. Thompson (which I can heartily recommend) - not an especially obscure book, but certainly not his most famous. I was a student, and I was lying on my bed reading this book, whilst listening to some music. This was about 2000, and I guess I was a relatively early adopter of online streaming music: I'd selected some random electro music station to listen to. I'm reading my book and listening to some moderately uninteresting electro when a sample in the music piques my interest - I recognise the voice! It's Hunter S. Thompson. I think, "That's a funny coincidence, given what I'm reading..." Then I listen a bit harder and I realise he's talking about Nixon (or McGovern, I forget). I realise he's reading from the very book I'm reading - and yet, it seems even more familiar than that, like I've just read these very words... I glance down at my book and realise he is, in fact, reading the start of the very paragraph I'd just, seconds ago, finished.

I wasn't on drugs and I haven't embellished this story over the years, it really did happen just like this. Just a lot of chance, right?

Kroniker
Occam's razor here, facebook is probably just lying.

Baader-Meinhof would postulate that he had been seeing ads for Campari all along, and just now noticed them, which he claims is not the case.

lazzlazzlazz
I personally think Occam's Razor would strongly, strongly favor a simpler explanation like Baader-Meinhof's - but that's the problem with Occam's Razor, right?
amelius
Here's a theory: after your conversation with your friends, one of your friends checked out the Campari product on the web, and from there FB deduced that you might also be interested.
amelius
And here's another theory: you were already targeted by the Campari ad before, but you were not consciously aware of it. This triggered the conversation with your friends.
akerro
Facebook knew he was interested in Campari, so they put Campari on menu in his local restaurant? That's smart!
onion2k
That's amusing, but at the same time it could make an excellent business idea - restaurants could tailor their menu based on the preferences of people who're booked to eat there. If you knew that a group of people who all really like sea bass are arriving at 6pm a restaurant could put a high-profit sea bass special on the menu knowing that those people are likely to order it. The customers are happier because they get their preferred dishes and the restaurant is happy because it makes them more money.
thatwebdude
They could also change the pricing. Because they know you'll be more interested to try an expensive steak ($3 more than your neighbor pays).

You'll also find that same steak tastes better now.

mercer
No, rather Campari started a multi-channel(?) campaign that included Facebook ads as one channel, and (various) 'real-life' channels to prime OP to talk about Campari 'randomly'. Could be anything from hired 'stooges' to tv ads to billboards to a new item on a menu.
xherberta
Or, one of your friends had previously been targeted for Campari ads; FB knew you were with your friend, and now serves you some ads it knows would be appropriate for your friend.
basch
or facebook knew you were at a restaurant that served it

searches for "Campari" are 1000x normal in this geographic area

tmnvix
> Following day I open my FB feed and something weird happened - there was a Campari ad...
basch
?

facebook knows where I was yesterday

crottypeter
why not both?

I don't think even facebook can necessarily reveal "the reason" an ad is shown because there are probably several reasons (combined) which lead to each story and ad in your feed.

sigi45
voice is not realistic in any scenario. Amazon echo or google doesn't understand everything, wide range microphone recording can't go unnoticed, the apps don't have access to it.

You are just one of Billion Facebook users, those numbers are high enough to have coincidences.

xherberta
Many apps do have access to microphone, don't they?

Voice recognition may not be good enough to transcribe the whole convo, but it would be sufficient to pick up repeated instances of "campari."

op: Is it possible something was said to accidentally trigger a search, like "Oh, que goo gel, blah-blah campari?" or "Way searing..."

627467
I suspect it is Campari season and they are just pushing their ads around this time of the year. I also have been "spammed" with Campari ads on YouTube for no apparent reason. I don't like it. Never searched for it. But live in a country where campari-orange is a staple night-out drink.

(Edit) to complete my 'theory': Campari has been advertising a lot, including pushing its use in bars/restaurants and pushing ads online, increasing likelyhood of that coincidence to happen.

throwaway_374
Seconded, you are just selecting for your own bias. Facebook knew you were at a bar. Campari happened to be pushing ads. You noticed the ad and probably disregarded other bar-related ads.
00deadbeef
I went on Facebook yesterday and there was an ad from a retailer I used once ages ago that said, "We noticed you haven't shopped with us for a while, blah blah, here's a special offer". I use uBlock and have Pi-hole blocking stuff like this at the DNS level, so how have they been able to connect my accounts in such a way the retailer can target me? They even use different email addresses.
marcusgarvey
Credit card purchase data? FB ads offer a way to target based on info from Experian, et al.
[dead] marcusgarvey
Credit card purchase data? FB ads offer a way to target based on info from Experian, et al.
kimburgess
I've had similar experiences. One in particular: I had a private, in-person conversation with a work colleague about a very niche company that until that point I'd never heard of. He does not use Facebook. Advertising profiles may have been connected from other services, but no way to connect directly due to any proximity / micro-location service.

After that conversation and without me searching for anything further relating to that subject I began being targeted with ads for the same company.

When that popped up I deleted Facebook from all personal devices. It may have been co-incidental, but there have been to many other similar situations that have made me question the validity of their official statements.

laurent123456
Maybe you didn't search for Campari, but perhaps a significant number of people going to this restaurant also notice this cocktail (maybe it's presented more prominently?) and google it. Maybe this topic also comes up more frequently within group of friends of a certain age, etc. So for FB, This restaurant + group of friends = show a Campari ad.
nkrisc
Not directly related, but tangential anecdote:

I was visiting another state and while there I decided to check out a local, independent book seller. While browsing I found a very interesting and niche book a had never heard of about the linguistic and archaeological history of the proto-Indo-European language and the people who spoke it. I purchased it with cash. Perhaps a week later, the book was suggested to me by Amazon. Of course I had already bought it, but I took it as an example of how accurate their recommendation algorithm could be.

For anyone interested, the book was The Horse, The Wheel and Language.

LSCanaan
I can relate and you won't believe it. Last Sunday I was at a cocktail bar and while checking the menu with a friend I had the exact same short conversation about Campari, prompted by wanting to know what's in a Negroni.

There's a phenomenon that explains this kind of illusion as a psychological effect, called the Baader-Meinhof complex. Coincidentally later that night we mentioned it too. It's basically a trick our brains play on us partly explained by the psychological processing of information, selective attention and confirmation bias.

Or maybe Facebook is spying on me, on you, and Hacker News too.

midgetjones
I do love a Negroni. Super simple to make at home as well, just make sure you don't go for more than three.
J-dawg
To what extent does Facebook allow its advertising clients to target users based on location? Down to the level of individual buildings (e.g. a bar)?

Is it possible that Campari could be running a campaign targeting people who recently visited bars that serve Campari? Or even simply people who recently visited a bar?

icebraining
They can target based on "Behaviours", so, maybe? https://www.facebook.com/business/a/online-sales/ad-targetin...

EDIT: The "Behaviour" targets can even drill down to specific types of alcohol beverages (beer, wine, other). Not sure that means specifically having visited a bar.

sharemywin
if any of your friends liked the wine or visited a site and the vendor had a look-a-like audience selected.

or maybe it uses voice recognition to target users "interests"

garduque
This makes the most sense to me. Also something along the lines of "people who visit this place search for the phrase 'campari' so it must be a thing here."

I definitely seem to be served ads based on recent locations.

ep103
Facebook is spying on your though. If you have the facebook app installed, try leaving it next to a spanish radio station for a number of hours. Supposedly you'll start seeing spanish ads pop up after a while.
lampzzy
Did you try this? If that's the case then would be a great post!
ep103
Saw it in a different HN comment:)
mercer
Here's an alternative theory: Campari is actively campaigning via multiple channels.

While difficult to prove or test, it's possible that there is both a facebook ad campaign as well as some real-world campaign going on at the same time. Real-world being either forms of visual advertising that 'primed' you to also talk about it, or perhaps (attractive) people hired to buy/pitch Campari in bars that you may have overheard. Apparently that's a thing.

Basically, Baader-Meinhof strikes me as something that any advertiser who knows about it would actively use to improve their advertising.

elzed
If you want to know what Facebook thinks about you, visit this page while logged in https://www.facebook.com/ads/preferences. FB profiled you using tons of internal data (your page like, activities, etc) and external data (bought from Epsilon, Acxiom, etc). There is a good chance Facebook already know about your habit and your choice of drinks even before you visit the restaurant.
[deleted]
(comment deleted)
coldpie
People see ads on the Internet? Huh.
smnscu
Related to privacy, I just found out that Google has detailed data about everywhere I go, because it's tracked by default by Android phones. Check yours here if you haven't (and maybe turn it off): https://www.google.com/maps/timeline
accountface
This is an interesting feature that Google doesn't seem to really talk about — it will also list where you took photos, tell you which businesses you've been to, and even go as far to guess your mode of transportation (in the city it'll go as far as guessing bus/train/car/bike with some accuracy).

And there's that typical double-edged sword: there are a lot of situations where I'd find this information really useful... but in order to gain that usefulness Google knows all that information too.

xparadigm
I meet a girl. She had a smartphone in which she had the Facebook app installed. I had a iPod which had a Facebook app installed too. But there was no wifi in the place we met. And my location services are always off in my device. I come home, and Facebook shows her as "People you may know." I had 32 mutual friends with her. So I let it go thinking it might be a coincidence.

Few days later, I meet a guy. Don't know if he had a smartphone or not. But I had my iPod. And there was no wifi. Location services are off. I come home. I see that guy as "People you may know." This time I had 2 mutual friends with him. Coincidence?

mcjiggerlog
Did you talk on whatsapp? I've noticed if I talk to someone on whatsapp then Facebook suddenly shows me lots more to do with that person or suggests that I add them, even if we usually never interact on Facebook.
xparadigm
I didn't use whatsapp. Facebook doesn't know my phone number. It's either a coincidence or what paulcole said. Or Facebook is tracking my location somehow.
y04nn
There was no wifi, but was WiFi turned off on your device? Facebook may scan surrounding access point to determine your location.
xparadigm
I am not sure of that. But if Facebook does that, isn't that a breach of privacy?
paulcole
>Coincidence?

No, but not the conspiracy theory you are imagining. It's my understanding that if Person A searches for Person B they are likely to show on Person B's list of people you may know.

Also just to clarify, how many times have you looked at the people you may now list and not seen someone you recently met?

spoiledtechie
Its a well known fact Facebook stays open on your phone even after you close it. Gps and your bar seem to have told Facebook to serve you an ad. Crazy that Facebook can do this, I can only imagine what the govt agencies do with this data.
lxchase
I'm surprised no one mentioned 3rd party audience lists. It's more than likely in this case you used your credit card at the restaurant and this data was passed to a data service like DLX or Neustar, which Campari will pay a fee to get audience lists such as: Datalogix » DLX CPG » Alcohol Beverage Buyers » Spirits or AdAdvisor Audiences powered by Neustar » AdAdvisor Consumer Audiences » Alcohol (Restricted to Best Practices) » Consumption Location » Liquor-Where Consumed-Restaurant

As to why Campari specifically, that could just be a coincidence. Have you seen other alcohol ads lately?

lampzzy
I didn't pay the bill but we arranged the lunch via FB MSN so easy to correlate I guess.

Haven't seen any alcohol related ads lately.

tmaly
I remember a post on here last year about Facebook suggesting patients of a psychologist as friends. It did this by location. Perhaps you or one of your friends had a facebook app on their phone with the location information turned on?
eugenez
Every Facebook ad has a dropdown in the top right corner, and one of the options is "Why am I seeing this ad?". It will show you details on that ad's targeting and why you are seeing it.
axew3
A case, or you had an app in background ... that recognize the voice and send data ... well it could be more near to reality than you maybe can imagine ... i'm impressed by the way, on how users install apps of any kind on their smartphone ... they really ignore how many data are transferred in background ... one day, or also right now, also the voice ... same users, often may are complaining that his phone credit get critical, and they do not know why! :)
axew3
A case, or you had an app in background ... that recognize the voice and send data ... well it could be more near to reality than you maybe can imagine ... this can be SO real, but rue or not, i'm impressed by the way, on how users install apps of any kind on their smartphone ... they really ignore how many data are transferred in background ... one day, or also right now, also the voice ... same users, often may are complaining that his phone credit get critical, and they do not know why!
wirddin
Something similar happened with me. I don't have Facebook's app but I use Messenger (location - allowed), So I'm guessing this is location based. You went inside a restaurant, spent time there. And Campari turned out to be a hot selling thing for restaurants.