Ask HN: What do you expect or hate to see in a job offer decription?

27 points by Cereal ↗ HN
Here is my list: Pros - which kind of technologies are used - involvement in open source community - description of a typical day of work

Cons - a low level description of the role - annual salary missing

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Sometimes in Dutch vacancies for freelance roles, I see the following remark with regards to hourly rate:

  "scherp aanbieden" (=> "offer sharply"?) 
I see this reasonably often in mailings of recruitment agencies. I hate this and I wouldn't be very tempted to apply.
What does it mean?
"Don't ask for too much money"
Don't forget "we will offer you a laptop and phone" as if those are privileges in IT.

Annoys the hell out of me.

I have applied to a bunch of positions and I can pretty much tell what posts are cookie cutter posts: a developer position opens up and the listed languages to be proficient are all the popular ones with vaugaries at best on the exact nature of the role.
Pro:

software stack

policy about open source software

Salary Range (allowed to be wide)

Con:

If you are trying to hide the company name, I dislike this but understand you are likely a recruiter working on commission.

In order to attract people who are passionate, you need to include the work domain. If you don't post the work domain, then you are wasting my time.

> If you are trying to hide the company name, I dislike this but understand you are likely a recruiter working on commission.

Why is it bad?

Because you don't know what company you're applying for?
Yeah. I once had a recruiter tell me to show up at a company that made sewing machines. Mechanical sewing machines. I don't think there was a single computer on the premises. The recruiter and I had a good laugh, then I fired him.
I'd settle for information about the industry the company is in, sometimes I see job adverts that lack even this basic information (I'm picky about the industries I work in, so perhaps this isn't a big deal for others).
It's just little bit frustrating to not have a clear idea of what you're going into. The bigger concern is not having any idea of the work domain. There Are Places I would be willing to work for any idea of the work domain. It is not enough for me to be working with " smart people who are doing all of the interesting things that have ever been done. Super super slick and way future. Comparable to Google and Enron"
"The applicant shall..." God, I hate that HR crap.
What really turns me off is acronyms about internal systems nobody outside of the company offering the job knows about.

Additionally job descriptions full of filler text trying to make the job seem more important than it is. The usual blabber about team players and competitive compensation, etc.

Rock star. My boss writes job descriptions like this and it annoys the shit out of me.
"Remote" positions where you can work from home every other Friday. If a position is under a butts-in-seats management style, the word "remote" should not be found anywhere in the description. Some remote positions have geographical limitations, which can be understandable from a tax perspective, but I also don't like to see "remote" positions open only to people in a specific timezone.
>"I also don't like to see "remote" positions open only to people in a specific timezone"

Isn't this also to do with working hours? If you want synchronous communication with remote employees you'd probably want them to work similar hours to local employees (unless you were a multinational company).

Timezone shouldn't be a factor. If I want to work overnight is my problem. Or I could easily just be available for meetings during the desired time zones but you can't exclude me as a candidate cause of my time zone.
Pro: - What tech you actually work with. Don't list equivalents. If the people knew the area they would already know if they have equivalent skills. - Salary range and years of experience. - What kind of actual real world user problems are you solving?

Cons: - Anything about culture (it's always bullshit), team player, or being emotionally mature - Useless fluff about "loving to work in a fast company", or how you were #1 2012's disposable ezine of the week's company to work for. - Not saying what the job is, but just saying what tech you will be using, as if that is enough. - You can't tell the description is any different between Intern/Junior/Senior/Architect level roles other than "years of experience"

Culture is always bullshit until you get rejected with a line such as "unfortunately we don't see a good culture fit here"
Note that it is still bullshit at that point.
I got through to the final offer stage of a job, and sent through a few questions to ensure I was making the correct decision. One of those was "are you okay with me being involved with the local X community by doing things like giving talks". The company actually didn't like this at all and revoked their offer (offer was verbal not on paper at this stage.) I consider that to be "not being a good culture fit"

At one of my last roles, we actively tried to expand the team with people who weren't caucasian males so that our inter-team communication may get better (amongst other pros.) Mind you that company in question also had rules about having to interview females for every role.

Having a requirement for knowing utility libraries. i.e. jQuery, underscore.js, MooTools, etc.

I understand requiring frameworks (i.e. Anguar, React), but jQuery? Come on.

What's wrong with listing jQuery? If it heavily used somewhere it's natural to want someone who's used it before.

It's something you can learn on the job, but requirements are there because employers ideally want someone who can hit the ground running.

> but requirements are there because employers ideally want someone who can hit the ground running

This is the biggest con for me. Being able to hit the ground running depends much more on the employer than the future employee. Without knowing details about the state of the project (clean or spaghetti code) you can't possibly say if you can hit the ground running or not.

They may as well say "we only hire liars".

>"They may as well say "we only hire liars"."

That bares no resemblance to reality.

Here's some free advice, if you don't know jQuery, and you keep seeing it in job adverts, just learn to use it. Blaming recruiters for looking for it will get you nowhere.

I was referring to the "hit the ground running" phrase, not jquery. Just because I know jquery and they use jquery does not mean someone can hit the ground running, there could be a lot of spaghetti code to untangle.
Listing jquery means that if you stopped using jquery 5 years ago you shouldn't apply for that position. It's actually good to know so you don't waste your time.
Pro: link to company career page with overview of hiring/onboarding process.

Exaggerated, but not by much is:

Con: Blanket requirements of conflicting language paradigms. Like, expert in (enter no less than 6 JS frameworks and build tools), also python, ruby, C#, and some Erlang is a plus. Oh, you also know AWS, and every RDMS and noSQL technology, MS SQL Server experience a plus.

Not exaggerated at all. I've seen job ads including those and something irrelevant like photoshop on top, i.e you might be needed to fill in for our designers from time to time.
I did a search for rust recently, just to see what the local market was like. All I got was a bunch of python web dev jobs that had a random listing of other languages.
If a position's salary varies from what is typically expected in the industry for an area (roughly different than the average salary found on Glassdoor, just as an example), then the salary or a warning should be listed in the description. Nothing pisses me off more than going through the motions only to get a lowball offer by a company hoping to rip me off. It is super demoralizing, even when I have other offers that are good.
A "fast paced" and "dynamic" environment is a huge red flag for me.
Con: "Preference will be given to EE Candidates"
I'd actually prefer if employers are candid about their preferences, as much as they may disappoint me. At least I know what to expect.
Can I ask why? I've never seen this (unfortunately, since I'm an EE).
Are you asking why it's a con for me or why these exclusions are there in the first place?

Without getting into politics, due to South Africa's past, businesses are under pressure to appoint employment equity candidates (as defined in http://www.labour.gov.za/DOL/legislation/acts/employment-equ... ) to address the inequities of the past. The short interpretation of this is that white candidates aren't eligible. I understand the reasons, but being white myself, seeing such a statement in an ad is very discouraging. The general concensus is that a company under pressure to correct their numbers would rather not appoint at all rather than appoint a non-EE candidate.

Pros: What the actual job is, the industry sector and the pay

Cons: Guru, Ninja, Rock Star and Passion. I am 55 with a shit pension and your 'Uber for salads' is not something I am passionate about. Never will be.

Complete put off: Other than the cons is reading the ad and not knowing what the job or company is about. If you can't spell it out your are either incompetent or deceitful.

Passion reads to me like "unpaid overtime"
Pro: Salary, salary, salary
Pro: a description of not only what work you expect me to do, but also who I'll be doing it with. Team size, experience level of other team members, my role in the team.

Con: Anything about fun company events and free drinks. I'm looking for work, not booking a cruise.

This. Who my manager is and who I'm potentially going to be working with on a daily basis is far more important to me than which version of Angular they use or that they have a ping pong table. But, I've never seen that in a job ad. I usually have to ask for names and even then it's a 50/50 shot whether they'll tell me.
Con: a Bachelor, Masters or PhD in {a specific field}.

Consider rephrasing to "PhD with publication record, or MSc with 3 years of work experience, or BSc with 7 years of work experience, 3 of which at {a specific advanced level}".

I understand if the job requires a certain minimum education background, but how can you possibly consider holders of all three of the above degrees, without stating the specifications for each degree? Can I still apply if I'm just about to get a BSc, or would you require some amount of work experience? Am I competing directly with PhDs? Confuses the hell out of me. I once applied for a SWE I position that had that kind of degree requirement during my senior year. Passed two phone screens, even handled questions about computer vision and deep learning well during the on site round (answered beginner and intermediate level questions well, was honest to admit my limits when asked about advanced topics). Two days after the interview I went back to check the job posting, and it was somehow changed to say Principle Computer Vision Scientist then I was like "oh there goes my chance". Needless to say I wasn't selected. It makes sense for them to select candidates with advanced degrees if they are really looking for a Prin. Scientist. But please, spell out the requirements so that candidates make informed decisions about whether to apply. It saves both parties valuable time.

Pro: Linux, scientific computing, not-for-profit organization, high-tech (if it really is), contributing to open-source

Cons: OSX, Windows, advertisement industry, bank, legacy systems, COBOL, calling the company "high-tech" when they mostly do what everybody else does, e.g. writing CRUD systems or do elementary data plumbing.

Pros:

- Stack

- Salary range

- Remote possibility

Cons:

- Any kind of synonym for rockstar, ninja, hero

- We are hiring (but actually not hiring, just wasting others time)

I despise seeing "salary - DOE" like nothing else.

Also hate it when ads describe the company ad nauseum and not much about what the actual work or tools are.

When they try to hide that they want you to work for free with something like "get in at the ground level of a rising star company"
"Senior Software Engineer"... "2 years experience."
Cons: Unrealistic and nonsense requirements e.g.

fullstack development or test eng.: MSc required

Cons: Below market salary AND tiny stock options. If you're offering a Sr. Engineer a $50k-$70k salary, then offering 0.1%-0.25% of the equity is unacceptable.