Ask HN: I’ve been applying to a million jobs
I am simply writing this post because I can't take this situation anymore and this is a cry from the heart.
I've been applying to a million jobs, I always seem to get the same old automated denial and I am just so sick of it. I am incredibly hardworking, disciplined, passionate about what I do and good at it, I've been doing web dev & design since highschool, I learn fast, I sweat the details, I am willing to learn anything it takes to solve my problems, I've launched a startup, single-handedly sketched, designed, and developed two mobile apps from scratch, (both live on iOS and Android at the time, and one of which went on to get over 8000 users the first month, be top 10 of its category, get featured in top women's publications online) , created APIs, have experience with databases (SQL and NoSQL), marketing, writing copy, web scraping, product design, interface design, I am Franco-american, bilingual in French and English, speak Node.js, Python, Django, Meteor.js, Hapi.js, and whatever I learn next.
I've been "selling" myself as a Product Designer but I truly can't fit in such a narrow box; I love the entire process, I love coding: for me HTML/CSS and code have never been anything more than tools to get whatever was on my mind into the real world. I love clicking a button and seeing it do something. That to me is magic.
But I am so frustrated right now, I don't understand why everything takes so long, this process is unbearable. It's already an inhumane effort for me to apply for a regular job, but I am willing to do anything (in tech) as long as it's paid at this point. I just want to come back to New York (I moved there when I was 20, knowing no-one) and work. I really feel like I can be incredibly useful to whoever hires me and it kills me that no one is even giving me a chance.
This is my website: http://o23.io
Help.
258 comments
[ 3.8 ms ] story [ 297 ms ] threadAlthough I have no doubt that your are unique, you might consider it styling it a bit more close to the norm.
If you have absolutely no personal connections in tech that you can leverage, apply to Hired (https://hired.com/) or Triplebyte (https://triplebyte.com/) and prove your worth to them however you can. Once you're on the platform as a quality developer, the rest will handle itself.
This confuses the heck out of most recruiters, since they like to put people in "boxes with labels", like "product designer, "graphic designer", "frontend developer" etc. I mean, people can't even figure out "who should interview this guy?"... which leads to being unable to even schedule an interview... which leads to lazy people going "wtf, next" reactions...
Also avoid labeling yourself as "designer who can code"... at an older job I worked with projects started by a designer/coder and it was a horrible experience... maintaining code written by a designer with rudimentary coding skills (not even basic OOP, let alone basic OOD/SOLID skills, or at least notions of FP) is pure hell for a disciplined software developer.
Also adding ENTREPRENEUR there translates to "shit, this guy can leave the company and start his own business anytime".
I'm an "Expert Generalist" myself, but never label myself as such, it drives everyone away! (Not even after getting a job... it will make everyone around you feel stupid and insecure, because "hey, this guy knows everything, I only know X", and they'll not enjoy working with you...)
List your full experience, but label yourself as what you want your future job to be! This way recruiters, founders or engineers will know what to do with you...
The thing is, I've always been in between both and as a result truly fit in neither position, compared to people who've specialized in one side.
I thought I would apply on the design side because it has always come more naturally to me, but maybe I should reevaluate.
I don't have a solution for this because I have a similar problematic set of skills (product design + backend + entrepreneur-ish + desire to jump more towards machine learning...). I'm curios how you end up solving the issue of selling this combination of skills, so please let me know how it goes ;)
In these positions you will do a mix of design and dev, but mostly dev, and mostly dev that the "serious engineer" devs don't want to do, like CSS. But that work has to get done and demonstrating an interest across the stack will help you work better with both the backend devs and designers.
I'd also market yourself as a Software Engineer (or a better known job title) rather than a "Product Designer". In the right company, an engineering role will see you dip your toes into all aspects of the product development process, which seems to be what you're after.
Lastly, remember that you need to stand out at every step of the recruitment process, from the easily discarded stack of resumes, to the checking your social media/github profiles, to the interview and technical assessment.
Product Designer in NY, when you don't live in the US might be too narrow.
Just remember. It's always up to you. With your skills you can get a job any day. Which means, keep going for what you specifically wants, but just accept the consequences (takes time). If you can't accept the consequences, seek other jobs (e.g. other roles or cities). It's on you :-)
Complaining or feeling down adds nothing to your life. Easier said than done. I know!
So accept the process or hunt something else
Focus on figuring out what you want, not just that you have those skills, but where you are passionate to use them.
Put your photo on website.
Have fun, and nothing is wrong with you - maybe you are ugly duckling figuring out other species of water dwelling birds ;)
I have tried your approach before and I also received less interest. I've always gotten more attention when I've rewritten my resume to sideline my other mindsets and interests below the technical ones.
On the other hand, Jon Gold [http://jon.gold] seems to have been able to represent himself as a designer/developer hybrid, so maybe it's possible with enough raw talent. Or maybe there is something he knows which we don't. ;)
Edit: Looking at your portfolio, I think you could sell yourself as a 'Designer'. However, I think to do so you will need to create a more visually interesting portfolio.
I'd suggest hired.com and angellist for a start. You could also make sure your LinkedIn is up-to-date and set your location to NYC to get on recruiters' radar.
Do you need visa sponsorship and relocation? Maybe that could be narrowing the pool a bit, but I think you should still have plenty of options. Don't get discouraged!
I'm completely agreeing with you, but I cry a little tiny bit inside. Sad that its this way.
PS don't think it fair that you are being downvoted. You are giving sound advice.
> I'm completely agreeing with you, but I cry a little tiny bit inside. Sad that its this way.
Me too. When did tool jockeying and lib/api wrestling become equivalent to "skilled techie/engineer"? Oh you're into algorithms, programming languages, realtime performance? Pooh-pooh on that, tell me your decades-long "experience" as a [cloud stack X] / [reactive framework Y] / [agile scrum devops continuous integration yadda-yadda Z] .. "engineer". Yeap that's what we call nowadays what you old grumpy neckbeard geek (rather than fashionista bespectacled over-groomed metro "geek") still call inane trivial "habits/rituals not skills".
Rant over =)
Had you asked me if this approach would work, I'd have said 'no', so I appreciate the learning.
I A/B tested applications a few years back, when I was doing the whole interviewing circus, and the ones that were just a list of tools and adjectives were by far the most successful.
Recruiters don't do nuance.
I completely agree.
Job seekers should also understand that once you're past the front door, you should definitely be skilled in nuance as part of the interview process.
For many years I thought I was a dummy for dropping out of college and just having a bad time with school and never getting good grades. Turns out I'm actually very good at math and I just had chronic depression from a bad upbringing. I taught myself calculus and then later, quantum mechanics, out of sheer interest and boredom after I was able to stabilize myself financially.
Maybe I'm wrong, but that's an impression about the web dev job market I've had for a while now, and I'd love to hear if others have the same or a different impression.
So something like "Web developer, with ambitions of growing towards a product manager/designer role".
Once you get an opening into a company, and its a good match, your talents will be recognizable instantly.
This.
It's usually much easier to "climb the ladder" internally than to get hired to top positions from outside.
If you are applying for developer positions you might want to highlight more of your developer skills.
I'd love to get to know you. I'd love to help you through the challenges you're currently facing and maybe if that leads somewhere we can talk about working together.
My website is http://krmmalik.com
Error 404 Vhost unknown. Vhost unknown. Varnish L7 server
Not sure why it would work for you and not for me. Might be a Varnish issue?
Also, it helps to know people.
Agree with the other comments that you should market yourself as a software engineer, focus on the tools, languages, and frameworks that you're familiar with there, pretty up your website some (the random yellow stripes look like edit bars to me; monospaced fonts look terrible, IMO, etc). Make it more generic, less jarring, get the interview, get hired as a software engineer on a frontend team and then let your design skills develop and be recognized.
No one is hiring a ~25 year old remote product designer from another country based on that website. Start with incremental steps. Get the SWE role first. Go from there.
(Also, count up how many applications you've actually done and then compare that with 1,000,000. I suspect you're going to be off by at least 3 [and probably close to 4] orders of magnitude. People who hire SWEs tend to like people who care about precision.)
One of the best sentences on the page.
At the beginning of your career, you aren't going to be that interesting. Look for some local jobs first.
You've only graduated 2.5 years ago, so trying to push yourself as a Product Designer is probably out of your reach, and comes across as unrealistic. This is a senior-level role where experience is more important than ticking off skills. In combination with the breadth you listed this doesn't make you seem like a genius, it makes you seem like a generalist who lacks focus and probably has a touch of ADHD.
Personally your website also doesn't impress me, nor do any of the projects shown. They all have the same blank slate look of plain sans-serif fonts on white backgrounds with little or no colors and virtually no iconography. That might be good to sell consumer goods, but it doesn't demonstrate your skill and it contradicts that you're "passionate about all things visual". There are no illustrations, no flourishes, the artistry and aesthetics are absent.
In fact, what seems to be your "showpiece" for product design is IMO a self-sabotaging demo. Instead of showing off the creative process and focusing on the creative possibility space, it's a long-winded and visually dull story of navel gazing about details, interspersed with random code screenshots and programmer art. The end result, buried at the very bottom instead of pulled out at the start, is an ugly neon monospace table view with only an out of place Mario coin for graphics.
The golden rule is show, don't tell, and to not force people to do the heavy lifting for you. Also, drop phrases like wanting to work "at your cool startup", it screams try-hard. You don't want to join the startup because _it_ is cool, you want the startup to hire you because _you_ are cool.
Don't talk about writing witty copy or designing mesmerizing colors and dazzling typography, just make me laugh, mesmerize me, dazzle me.
None of the products look like something I'd expect from a "Product Designer" and even less so from someone who is "passionate about all things visual". I am not a designer but I've worked with a number of highly talented designers and none of these designs really impress me, in fact almost all of them nibble at something in the back of my head proclaiming them as slightly "off". I can't exactly put my finger on it but they just look out of place for some reason. I can get past the style of the main website (though I think it's in the style of a programmer and less of designer) but the things the OP has worked on just don't seem that... good. The "quirky equipment" with text inputs is confusing on a number of levels: What is this trying to show? Why is it listed at all? How is this innovative/interesting/or even cool? A tiny bit of JS strung together with some CSS animations doesn't strike me as worth sharing. Lastly, and a tiny thing at that, o23.io works find for a dev/designer name Olivier that is 23 years old but.... Did he buy o24.io-o100.io as well? Just seems like an odd choice of domain.
I find OP's work impressive and his design skills are great, he handles minimalism with grace, and that's not something a programmer could achieve without previous design principles.
His website's concept is exactly what it should be (being a T shaped professional), his grasp on typography is very good (a far better skill to have than the ability of making a million animations to impress), his Skyler app is extremely well designed and overly his work is above average in every way.
I'm not sure why OP is having trouble finding work, but it certainly is not his skills. Perhaps it's the way he presents himself, or sounding needy, or he aims for positions that require much greater experience.
He is absolutely fit for a junior to mid level front end developer or UI engineer job in my books.
Edit: His name is Olivier, just goes to show how much attention you paid when reviewing his work. (edit 2: parent edited their post where they originally referred to OP as "she" and "Olivia")
Olivier is having difficulty finding a job, despite applying for 'millions' of positions. That screams that there is something wrong. At this point, we could pat him on the head and tell him that everything will be fine, or we can put our critical hats on and try to find things that be blocking his dreams.
I'll agree that some of the feedback has been harsh, but the poor man ended his plea with the word 'help'. Sometimes the most helpful advice is the hardest to hear.
He needs people to let him know what they like and dislike about his profile. But that does also include mentioning what is attractive about his resume. Otherwise we might as well tell him "yo bro, tech isn't for you honestly" if there's nothing likable about what he's done.
He needs to find where his profile adds value and concentrate on that. Conversely, he needs people to let him know about what they think is his profile's weaker points so he can adapt. But asking for help and having everyone tell him the same thing that his interviewers have told him isn't what he's asking for. Is it ?
Some answers have been very helpful it seems (as simple as "well maybe you're applying for senior positions instead of junior ones" or "maybe it's your personality rather than your achievements"). But saying "yeah man; I'm sorry but none of your projects impress me, they're all at best avg" does seem kinda harsh to me. To the point where it might be detrimental to OP's motivation.
Back to the main question:
I think your resume is great, you clearly have valuable skills. Assuming you're applying to entry level positions (you're only 23), I would guess that it's everything besides your resume that isn't working out. Maybe it's your cover letter, it might not be transmitting what people want to read. You should be able to get interviews with your resume, I'm surprised you're not. Have you tried to contact people directly ? I mean as opposed to responding to job ads ?
Also, little tip, rather than saying you're the best at what you do and that's why someone should employ you, I would also add to my cover letter why you want to work for who ever you're applying it. Is it because you're in love with drones, with sports, with lingerie, with whatever you're gonna be working on if you get the job. Because employers are looking for devs that love the product they're coding. I'd rather code with someone avg but passionate about what he does than someone super good but that doesn't give a shit.
Anyway, don't give up bro, you're young and you're clearly not dumb, so it'll work out. Good luck !
The designs shown are not compelling enough for me to recommend, hire or work with OP if it were for his design skills. And somehow that is in fact what he communicates as his biggest skills.
Then again, maybe my opinion, or the amount of attention I paid when reviewing his work, is not representative of (even a part of) the companies OP is applying to.
Slightly off topic, but is being a generalist considered a bad thing?
And it should go without saying, but if you're applying for both jobs, for heaven's sake - have 2 different versions of your resume...
Most senior people I've worked with are the archetype T-shape: a good general knowledge of a number of related fields, and a deep speciality in one area.
Wikipedia has an interesting (although uncited) comparison of Versatilist (T-shape) vs Generalist [1]:
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VersatilistAt 3 years of work experience, most people have just started to understand 1-2 things. It may be that you have gotten a great, wide experience at a young age, because you started to do hard things really early - if a junior person claims that they "know" many diverse skills, maybe they truly are a generalist, but it is so much more likely that this simply shows a so big gap in knowledge/understanding that they don't even understand how little they know about all these 'secondary' skills.
This is true at least personally - there are certain skills where 15 years ago I believed that I had them, however now I know that I don't and never did so, simply because now I have seen people who actually do have that skill and can evaluate my knowledge in appropriate context.
But companies hire specialists, plain and simple.
Your portfolio is actually pretty decent - especially for someone so young.
You're only 2.5 years out of school and you clearly are a multi-skilled individual with a solid ability to 'get things done' (the best skill ever) - especially wherein you've clearly required a number of different skills.
I'd suggest that being young and wanting to work remotely, or go to 'a foreign country' is hard. Immigration laws are real, and they are a barrier.
Try searching for something closer to home, or facilitating your career by getting some kind of 'status' in the US so that employers there can hire you. (Easier said than done, I know).
Keep your chin up, I would hire you in an instant if I had a role for you.
You should ask a "product designer" crowd then. They can probably better tell you what is wrong with your applications than the programmer crowd.
My first instinct was to look for a GitHub profile, both on the homepage of your site and alongside the various examples. The text field thing was interesting - why not put the code on GitHub, so it's easier for people to look through and try out? If it's already there, then make sure your GitHub profile is discoverable on your site, because I didn't find it despite looking for several minutes on multiple pages.
Also consider posting your LinkedIn profile on your website (or get one if you don't have one). I personally don't care about that, but recruiters definitely seem to.
In any case, my employer is actively hiring; I'll email you the job listings.
Good luck.
> I am so frustrated right now, I don't understand why everything takes so long, this process is unbearable.
Meta advice: if I were you, I'd take a break for a few days and focus on getting your feelings about this back to a calmer, constructive, cheerful place.
If you're not sure how to do this, I'd say: start with vigorous exercise every day [1], do things you normally enjoy, and consider mindfulness meditation [2].
[1] http://7-min.com/ is a good quick fix.
[2] https://www.headspace.com/ is good and free for a beginner.
I'm regarded as a pretty good developer, but I've also had stretches where I was desperate to change jobs, and the offers weren't coming in fast enough. I got very stressed-out and emotionally over-wrought. That's not a good starting point for impressing prospective employers.
If you can, I'd suggest the following project:
1. Commit yourself to not look for a job for 6 months.
2. Pick just one or two of the constructive criticisms people post here, and use that time to see if you can improve in those areas.
3. At the end of those 6 months, give yourself 1 month to apply for jobs, and see how well it goes.
4. If you don't get an acceptable offer, GOTO step 1 above.