How about those who commit crimes in general? Those that associate with criminals? Do your feelings differ with respect to the severity (misdemeanor vs felony) or type of crime? Do you believe that the illegal immigrants who have committed crimes in the US have come to the US to commit these crimes? Other than deportation, do you think illegal immigrants who commit crimes should be treated differently than other criminals?
I agree personal responsibility is very important. Similarly about obeying the law. When someone stridently expresses a contentious opinion in a simplistic way, I think it's fair to expect some pushback and requests for elaboration.
Particularly coming from a newly-minted account expressing a political opinion: HN isn't primarily for political discourse. I've heard users say they create accounts to express opinions they think are contrarian and that they'll be downvoted or whatnot if they use their primary account. If you think the opinion you have is valid but unpopular and have created an account to express it, be prepared to back it up, or at least explain it.
The solution is to give anyone that passes a basic check a work permit that has a clear path to permanent residency and citizenship. We don't need to take violent criminals, there's little reason to turn anyone else away.
True. One aspect of the larger discussion has been about illegal immigrants committing crimes beyond their illegal status. That's perhaps a distinction that you don't find compelling, which is of course your prerogative. It can be helpful in the discussion to acknowledge whether that's the case.
Please describe how someone in the US illegally can survive without committing other crimes (if they can't work legally and they can't obtain welfare legally, how do they support themselves entirely within the law?)
Please grant a bit of charity in extending beyond their illegal status to include working for businesses who are willing to (illegally) hire undocumented workers and other similar cases where documentation is the only hold up.
I'm aware that one of the reasons some people are for increasing enforcement and deportation of illegal immigrants is that they're perceived as a drain on society by consuming public services and jobs. I also know that there are many illegal immigrants who pay use taxes and otherwise contribute positively to their community.
Please also note that I'm not arguing against 'mordant's position. I'm trying to understand more fully what that position is and encourage actual discussion and understanding (even if there isn't agreement). If that's not something that interests you, that's perfectly fine.
the referenced "church shelter" in VA is referred to as a "hypothermia shelter" twice in the linked article... but the overnight low temperature was 51 degrees[0].
How is that "fake news"? It's referred to as a hypothermia shelter because that is what the church that runs it calls it.
Presumably they call it that because sheltering people from hypothermia is one of the main reasons they operate it. That doesn't mean that it is only open on nights when the weather is cold enough to induce hypothermia.
Most cases of hypothermia occur in the temperature band between 30 and 50 degrees, so I'm not sure what your emphasis on the temperature was supposed to indicate.
Additionally, exposure to cold temperatures can be more dangerous if it rains, or if a person is in compromised health for any of a bunch of different reasons.
And, obviously, shelters aren't built for the overnight low temperature yesterday. It's 45 degrees out right now in Chicago (having just had an hour-long phone call in my back yard, with a jacket on: way too cold to sleep outside!), but it should be far lower, and could get much colder on very little notice.
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[ 7.0 ms ] story [ 61.7 ms ] threadParticularly coming from a newly-minted account expressing a political opinion: HN isn't primarily for political discourse. I've heard users say they create accounts to express opinions they think are contrarian and that they'll be downvoted or whatnot if they use their primary account. If you think the opinion you have is valid but unpopular and have created an account to express it, be prepared to back it up, or at least explain it.
I'm aware that one of the reasons some people are for increasing enforcement and deportation of illegal immigrants is that they're perceived as a drain on society by consuming public services and jobs. I also know that there are many illegal immigrants who pay use taxes and otherwise contribute positively to their community.
Please also note that I'm not arguing against 'mordant's position. I'm trying to understand more fully what that position is and encourage actual discussion and understanding (even if there isn't agreement). If that's not something that interests you, that's perfectly fine.
the referenced "church shelter" in VA is referred to as a "hypothermia shelter" twice in the linked article... but the overnight low temperature was 51 degrees[0].
[0] http://www.accuweather.com/en/us/alexandria-va/22314/februar...
Presumably they call it that because sheltering people from hypothermia is one of the main reasons they operate it. That doesn't mean that it is only open on nights when the weather is cold enough to induce hypothermia.
Additionally, exposure to cold temperatures can be more dangerous if it rains, or if a person is in compromised health for any of a bunch of different reasons.
And, obviously, shelters aren't built for the overnight low temperature yesterday. It's 45 degrees out right now in Chicago (having just had an hour-long phone call in my back yard, with a jacket on: way too cold to sleep outside!), but it should be far lower, and could get much colder on very little notice.