Ask HN: Who is switching away from MacBooks this year?

47 points by nunez ↗ HN
I noticed that a lot of my colleagues were thinking of switching away from the Mac and onto Surface Books or Surface Pros. I've had a Surface Pro for the last six months after having MacBooks for two years prior, and some bugs aside, I am really happy with it.

Who else is thinking of doing this?

95 comments

[ 3.4 ms ] story [ 181 ms ] thread
I couldn't stick with the Surface and ended up coming back to my mbp. I guess I drank the koolaid hard!
Seeing many folks that went to MacBook Pros last cycle but now going to Dell or Lenovo HW. I lean more towards Lenovo, but the recent Dell semi-unibody builds are very nice.
In the meantime, Apple is selling more MBPs than ever: https://arstechnica.com/apple/2017/01/apple-sets-revenue-and... :

Mac unit sales have rebounded after a few quarters of decline, and Mac revenue is actually up by around $500 million, hopefully proving to Apple that people actually will buy Macs when the company releases new ones. Both the revenue growth and the unit sales growth can be attributed to the new MacBook Pro

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There's very little chance of that happening, but we aren't rushing in to buy a bunch of touchbar macbook pros to replace our existing machines either.
Have had a dell xps 13 (project sputnik) for a while now. Best portable laptop I've ever had. Mac doesn't even come close. Every time I have to use a Mac at work I wonder why can't these people wise up. All our infra is Ubuntu. What is the point of running OS X and dealing with all the cross-OS issues.
I assume you would be doing things in VMs, right!? So what cross-OS issues?
Why use a VM when I can run things directly on the bare metal or in a docker container and not pay the virtualization overhead.
I'm not the original posted, but for me it's security and convenience reasons, mostly. I use Qubes OS which presents a very nice UI that makes using multiple VM's very seamless.
IMO it's kind of weird to buy a frankly absurdly expensive laptop that locks you into using it's OS to then go and setup a bunch of virtualization to make your code/dependencies work when you can just run the OS you are virtualizing.

Why add layers of complexity when you can just run the OS you want?

I'll present a contrary view: I love my new MacBook Pro. It's thinner and lighter than my last one; relevant to me because I travel extensively.

I find that the battery lasts longer than my last MacBook Pro as well.

I've seen the Surface Pro, and I find it intriguing, but can't really picture wanting to purchase or use one.

Me too. I got a new 13" non-touchbar MBP pro after my previous 15" lasted seven years until Apple dropped support for it from the new OS. It still ran Xcode OK. Why would I not buy another? New MBP is great.
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+1

Got the non-touchbar model and it's by far the best machine I've ever used.

Agree. I went from an early 2011 15" MBP fully decked out with SSD, 16G mem, matte screen (which I loved.. but spilled beer on) to the 13" mbp touch and love everything about it.
I have a Surface Pro, an iPad Pro, and an original retina macbook (ordered the day they were announced). If I had to pick one, I'd pick the macbook. If I could pick two, I'd pick the macbook and the iPad. The one thing I really like about the Surface is the handwriting keyboard. I just wish the word recognition was better. It mainly sits on my desk at home charging though.
My main issue with Surface Pro is the keyboard.
My main issue with Surface Pro is the keyboard.
I too actually switched back to my macbook but mine is a mid-2012 model, which is still kicking. My wife got the touchbar macbook and she loves it too.
I would guess a lot of people based on anecdotal comments on forums and not very many people based on sales data.
The latest Razer Blade has worked out for me very well. Ubuntu / windows dual boot has made it convenient for work / play alike. I unloaded the nvidia drivers for similar battery in ubuntu vs windows.
Life's too short to not run OS X on my primary work machine.
As an ex-windows user for over 15 yrs, this is my main point. Despite me hating the hardware, in osx, it just works. No drama.
Did you yet notice how hard it is to convince other Windows users of this?
It's hard to convince us because it's not true. As a matter of fact, the opposite is true - hardware certainly doesn't "just work" in Apple's ecosystem and it does just work with Windows.

I use Mac and Windows every day at work. Rarely, if ever, do I have any issues with my Windows hardware but my Mac hardware constantly causes me problems. Just last week I had to take steps to "zap the PRAM" on my 2012 Mac Pro since every USB port died for no reason.

I also have multiple wireless USB mice that work fine on my Macs until I go to the Updates tab of the App Store...at which point they simply stop working. Another problem I have with my Macs is that there is no built-in way to disable an external monitor without unplugging it or powering it down.

Honestly, I've been using Macs since the 90's, I've always had hardware problems with them and when I look around I see others having the same problems - so I know it's not just me. If you search the web you can see millions of others having Mac hardware issues - so I'm not really sure where Apple fans are getting the idea that Mac hardware "just works" because it quite obviously does not.

same, I had to zap the pram, or whatever, bc it wouldnt boot. also have problems connecting external monitors through miniDP, sometimes the monitor doesn't work.
It's not "Mac works" and "Windows doesn't work" or vice versa. They both have issues, regularly, and often trade places being worse. They BOTH suck.

It's a matter of what issues you feel comfortable dealing with. There is no computer utopia, unless you're only surfing and writing documents, and need nothing more complex than a Chromebook. ;)

I use Mac and Windows every day and I'm certainly comfortable with both of them. Many of my Mac hardware issues have no fix at all though.

The one I mentioned about certain USB mice dying has never been fixed. Another thing that will never ever be fixed is the lack of choice video cards that I can put into the PCIe slot on my Mac Pro. Other problems with PRAM or SMC/sleep have a "fix" but somehow they keep popping up and you have to keep applying the fix. I can tell you honestly that I never have recurring problems on the Windows because things get fixed quite rapidly since Microsoft obviously still cares about Windows.

Anyway, I don't care about Chromebooks or other walled garden devices really. Even if I just wanted something to browse with I would prefer a Windows tablet so I could have some freedom ;)

I had a Surface Book. It was my first foray back into Windows territory. The device itself is amazing. Blows the doors off an iPad, in terms of productivity. (remember: long time Apple user)

Unfortunately, I ragequit it and sold it after dealing with the "sleep of death" issue enough times. Well-documented issue, and supposedly fixed with updates. (that was not my experience).

The Surface Book got fixed for good with a firmware update though.

Meanwhile, all of the Mac problems I mentioned are still not fixed and Apple is still quite obviously, ignoring their desktop OS. They've also always hated power users where-as Microsoft caters to them on hand and foot.

I had that firmware update. The one that was supposed to fix it "for good". Mine wasn't fixed, at all. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Definitely no arguments on the Mac stuff though... (as I type from my shiny new Dell XPS)

The problem with this response is that it is anecdotal and not statistically significant. Which makes it useless, unfortunately.

I never claimed Macs didn't have hardware issues. I claimed that it is nearly impossible to convince a die-hard Windows user that perhaps they might be happier overall on a Mac.

Is it as anecdotal as saying that Macs "just work"? Is it nearly as anecdotal as saying "how hard it is to convince other Windows users"?

> I claimed that it is nearly impossible to convince a die-hard Windows user that perhaps they might be happier overall on a Mac.

No you didn't. You just said "Windows users" and you didn't say anything about being "happier overall", you said that it was hard to convince them that they "just work".

Now you're trying to say that you "never claimed Macs didn't have hardware issues". What do you suppose "just works" means in English?

I guess when you go around spouting off ridiculously broad and obviously incorrect statements such "it just works", you're going to be "misunderstood".

We've banned this account for repeatedly being uncivil.

Please don't create accounts to break the HN guidelines with.

Whatever. Expected this since day one. What you call uncivil, I call responding in like fashion.

Why don't you ban the other guy for being an asshole to me by calling my response "useless"? That was extremely fucking rude and it made me angry.

> Please don't create accounts to break the HN guidelines with.

Oh, don't worry about that - I didn't. But I will be back with another account and I'll be sure to be so fucking polite in my responses to assholes like this that you're going to die from the sheer delight of my flowery words.

Same boat here, I intend to upgrade my eight year old Macbook either in two months or the end of the year (so could wait for the next update potentially). I use Windows at work and I just can't do it at home. There's always some type of drama although of course it's gotten better over the years. I've spent an hour at the Apple store comparing the non-touch bar and the touch bar ones, I prefer the non-touch bar, but not a fan of the keyboard on either one. If they upgrade the Air I may just get that but it seems unlikely.
My 2013 MBPr is still fine. I'll probably get the new one late this year or the next though. Haven't been especially impressed with Windows laptops.

My SO has a XPS 13 and while the build is much better than any Windows laptop I've seen, I don't think it's worth switching.

Really my decision is between the smaller 12 inch vs the 13 inch.

I just bought a new non-touchbar 15" MBP.
I will after my primary project ceases to be developing an iPhone app. Should be sometime this summer.
Switched to one actually. My System 76 was aging and work bought me a new MBP. It's nice. Definitely has the processing power to do everything that I would want to when I'm away from my desktop. Good battery. My desktop (Ubuntu) is still where I do most my work.
Turns out I'll be the contrarian voice in an overwhelmingly Apple-positive thread about switching away from the Mac:

OS X has been my primary productivity OS for more than ten years now, but I'm in the process of switching. I'll keep using my 2012 MBP until it physically falls apart, but make no mistake: this will be my last MacBook. Not sure what I'll replace it with when the time comes, performant laptops with a long battery life and 2TB+ storage are amazingly hard to come by these days.

My iPhone has a broken screen that can't be fixed without permanently losing the finger print scanner, so that's going to be my last iPhone as well.

On the desktop side, I'm using an iMac/PC dual setup (with Synergy), so I'm still dragging my heels a bit because honestly it hurts to let OS X go. Windows and I will never be friends, but there is no question that the PC platform is going to be the future for me.

To be clear, switching sucks royally for me, but staying would suck more. macOS hasn't deteriorated to the point where I want to leave it behind yet, although the writing is on the wall. But Apple's hardware philosophy and practice makes it so I'd really hate giving them even more money for yet another even more hilariously overpriced, closed-down, underperforming, outdated, unrepairable, not-upgradeable appliance that they think is going to be the future of computing.

Do you think you'll try OSX on PC-hardware? I'm not sure how easy that is to do still, but it might be worth a shot.
I've been thinking about making a Hackintosh, yes, but in the end I don't want to have a setup that I constantly have to spend time on just to keep it alive. I'm not sure if things have gotten better since I last looked into it, but it seems to me you'll have to live with a degraded feature set and constant tweaking.

    > the end I don't want to have 
    > a setup that I constantly 
    > have to spend time on just 
    > to keep it alive
It's admittedly been about 5 years since I seriously tried to use Linux on the desktop, and a little longer than that since Windows, but the biggest concession I've made to keeping my OS X machine alive is a `bluetooth_reload` alias. Is XF86Config still a thing? How about audio support?
XF86Config is now Xorg and is only used in the rare cases (dealing with proprietary drivers or strange configurations, mostly) where you want to override the defaults. Most people don't have an Xorg.conf file anymore.

For all that people complain about pulseaudio, it's been working pretty well for me for the last 5 years or so.

I'll admit I'm a bit of an outlier, though: I run xubuntu as my base system but i3 as my main window manager. I'm sooo much more productive on it than anything else I've ever used - it's amazing how much time I used to spend adjusting window sizes.

I was talking about Hackintosh actually, but it's true: I have the same reservations about the Linux desktop.
If you love tinkering, Hackintosh is certainly full of fun projects.
> My iPhone has a broken screen that can't be fixed without permanently losing the finger print scanner.

I don't know why you're thinking you're going to any better off with some other smartphone. I broke my Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge's screen and nobody could fix it. Nobody would replace it. I checked icracked, tmobile stores, called around. Now I have a LGV20 in an otter case, and the class that covers the camera has cracks. These phones are fragile.

At least with iPhones you have a large enough market where small businesses can help. With some random android phone from LG with nationwide sales in the low millions annually I'm pretty much not going to find anyone to help me fix anything. And there aren't like any LG stores, like there are Apple stores you can go to.

I can live with the fact that they are fragile. Although I think part of that fragility has been designed right in on purpose by Apple, it's still my fault for dropping the thing on the asphalt.

My problem, and the reason why I want to stop supporting Apple specifically is that my ridiculous $1000 phone has a home button that is cryptographically coupled to the device, and physically bonded to the display, in an effort to make repairs impossible.

> My iPhone has a broken screen that can't be fixed without permanently losing the finger print scanner

Why?

"My iPhone has a broken screen that can't be fixed without permanently losing the finger print scanner"

That's not true in my experience. Unless the actual button/scanner is broken (unlikely) you can transplant it to a new screen without too much trouble.

Source: I've changed a couple of screens for friends and family.

Edit:

Here's a repair guide that includes the home button transplant.

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPhone+7+Display+Assembly+Repla...

I'm repeating what the repair guys told me. I'll look into it, but from what I've been told, I managed to break the whole assembly.
> My iPhone has a broken screen that can't be fixed without permanently losing the finger print scanner, so that's going to be my last iPhone as well.

Did you buy Applecare Plus? I broke my screen on my 6S and Apple replaced the entire phone. They also offered to replace only the screen, but I opted to pay more for a full replacement because the body was damaged. They never mentioned anything about the fingerprint reader being impaired after replacing the screen.

Apple will have to screw macOS up a lot for me to stop using it, especially if work keeps buying my MBP.

I just reclaimed my 2009 MBP after upgrading my wife's MBP. I'd never notice it wasn't current If it wasn't for running a little hot and the non-retina screen.

I have maxed MB Pro 15" late 2016 model and cant really imagine switching to anything else for development.
I bought a 2015 MacBook Pro, I would highly recommend one. The 2014 MBP is still great too if you can find one, basically the same as the 2015 model.

I have negative interest in the touch bar or that awful keyboard.

My MBP isn't quite in updating range yet, but I fully expect to buy the next model MBP after the current one.
Not me. Still on a mid-2011 13-inch MacBook Air. I'll probably switch to whatever new MacBook is release this summer.
Same here, and it baffles me that all people talk about is MBP when MBA is such a good alternative. I'll keep my Air until it dies, or a new one comes out.
The price to power in most high end laptops is the same Apple is not priced very high compared to others. But with the new Amd processors that could change. And laptops with similar power and battery life at 2/3rd to half the price is going to change things.
I've thought about going back to the MacBook several times. It's a beautiful, and very light, machine. However, I really, really value having a tablet that I can write on that can also be a fully-fledged computer when it needs to be. Being able to reorient the monitor in portrait mode is amazing. Also, the Type Cover keyboard is amazing; leagues better than the chiclet keys on the MacBooks.

After Windows 10 got Ubuntu, there was no looking back.

I am still thinking about replacing my iPad Air for an iPad Pro, though. I love a small tablet I can write on, too.

I went from a 2012 15" Retina MBP to a SP4 for about a year. It was okay.

I'm now back on a 2016 15" TB MBP and happy to be "home" on macOS.

There's really nothing wrong with this machine. It might not be the giant leap forward from the 2015 model that people hoped for, but it's a perfectly fine machine to get work done with.

I have yet to use a machine that is as much of a pleasure to use as my mbp. I came from linux and while it was able to get the job done, the third party support for a lot of apps was less than ideal. Having everything synced up to my iPhone (again coming from someone who's first smart phone was the original droid) is fantastic as well.
It's hard to justify buying a new notebook in this day and age IMO. Since 2014 hardware has been about the same with the same price point for customer notebooks..

I had a macbook air 13 from my company and would probably have kept it to this date. Since my company took it back I am using some 13' toshiba with i3 and 4gb of ram running ubuntu.. haven't seen the need to upgrade.

Since 2014 the hardware has been more than adequate for 90% of the people that buy those sorts of machines. There's also not a lot of room for improvement since the i5/i7 from 2014 and the i5/i7 from 2017 aren't dramatically different.

> I am using some 13' toshiba with i3 and 4gb of ram...

You're complaining about the hardware not being better and you're using a super low-end laptop. Maybe your real complaint is price, not performance, as you can get machines like that for $200 if you're not concerned about anything other than cost.

Yep.

In MY day to day, as a backend / front-end / devops guy, it isn't worth the money to buy anything better than what I have IMO.

All I do is vim, run stuff in cloud machines through ansible (SSH), and a browser.

My last MacBook Air with an i7 was better than what I have but not $2k better.

The Air with a retina display would be the perfect laptop.