Primer is one of my all time favorite movies. I had goose bumps watching it the first time.
The linked timeline from the article is actually pretty "easy" to read and really helped me understand what I've just seen. Just watch the movie beforehand :)
Exactly. I don't get all the Avatar hate. The story was bad, but the cinematic experience was excellent. It was a summer blockbuster style movie. I didn't go into it expecting a plot, I went into it expecting action, explosions, and shiny things. It delivered superbly on those things. Don't judge Avatar against hard sci-fi, judge it against something like Star Wars or the new Star Trek movie. Its purpose was to entertain, not to leave you thinking about it for days. Personally, I find nothing wrong with that. I generally prefer movies like Primer, but sometimes it's nice to kick back with a bucket of popcorn and marvel at the pretty lights.
I found it impossible to relate to or care about any of the characters.
If you haven't seen it, find the incredible review of the Phantom Menace on YouTube by Red Letter Media. The most insightful part is where he asks people to describe the nature of the characters in both trilogies. For the original movies, people instantly recall, for example the "dashing...arrogant..scoundrel" Han Solo. For the newer films, nothing. What was princess Amidala like? Nobody cares.
Avatar suffered from this, and no amount of shiny graphics could ever bring me to care. With great characters you can forgive all kinds of things (eg Battlestar Galactica.)
I wouldn't call it lame. It's predictable, precisely because it's a fairly standard hero story, the kind we keep telling each other since we have learned to tell stories.
Stories like these are part of what makes us human.
Please, don't read the Wikipedia article before you go out and rent or buy this movie. The movie is absolutely fantastic.
I have seen it 17 to 18 times, and even-though people have attempted to explain everything that is going on to me I still have a hard time wrapping my mind around it. Awesome for the hacker in you!
I'm on my tenth time and I'm just starting to figure out a few of the nuances in only some of the scenes. The timeline has helped but one day I will do an animation that shows it more intuitively it that's possible.
Just got around to watching it on Netflix a few weeks ago - the first movie in awhile which has kept us up talking about for nearly as long as it takes to watch. Highly recommended.
I'm ashamed to say I haven't seen this movie yet, I must order the DVD this weekend, (now that I've been reminded for the umpteenth time).
On a side note, my biggest annoyance with Wikipedia is manifest in articles about movies. For some reason, they allow an editorial policy of essentially writing out a scene by scene account of a movie.
They used to have a spoiler warning in movie articles but they got rid of it. I kind of liked it, but I suppose it made it seem less like an encyclopedia article and more like a forum post.
I agree that it's an informational site, but the nicest to read information adheres to editorial principle. To me, information for information's sake is a poor substitute to well crafted, and concise "simply what you need to know".
I would stress that not all of Wikipedia falls into that trap. Obscure information (histories of places, etc) read quite well, and tend to get the information balance right. However, pop culture and movies in particular, seem to attract a kitchen sink style, as though someone just sat through the film with a laptop, and typed up everything as it was happening on the screen in front of them.
I'm in the UK, I'm not sure whether Netflix is over here yet. Not to worry, it's on a retail website for reasonable money, and I wouldn't mind owning a copy :)
Shameless self-promotion: my timeline app, Preceden, which lets you make multi-layered timelines, would be perfect for representing timelines like this (and the one in Primer!).
The $5/day the led to that $60 didn't result in any paying customers, so I stopped. Blog reviews and word of mouth are much more effective.
As far as usability goes, it should be pretty easy to use. There are advanced features, but for a simple timeline, you should be off and running in minutes.
If you like films like Primer you will like Triangle. I clearly want to watch it again to understand every time loop. Plus there's Melissa George in the lead role, which doesn't hurt.
Triangle was ok, but it has another feel to the movie. It's a bit of a horror with some mystical explanation to it.
But Primer is pure mind-bending sci-fi. You could feel the atmosphere of the guys inventing something like few other movies.
Actually - this is how I think a startup should feel and look like: the way the movie portrays it at the beginning, while the guys are still figuring things out.
I prefer Timecrimes to Primer... it doesn't try to confuse the viewer.
SPOILER ALERT.
Also, single timeline based time travel is just plain better than multiple timeline based time travel. There are just way too many problems that having multiple timelines introduces. I don't think you can ever tie up all lose ends with multiple timelines... someone can always just build a time machine later and fork the past. Maybe Primer addresses this with the limitations of their devices.
Yeah a great flick. Only cost $7k dollars to make or something. Needs to be watched MANY times to figure it out, but the great thing is it seems to all hold together.
Set time aside to watch it twice. It's only 77 minutes long, and I believe that's a plus. I saw this for the first time with a few friends and when it was over, nobody protested when I started it over immediately.
I've watched this movie several times and I pick up on new things almost every time.
I watched this movie several years ago, and thinking about it still messes with my brain. Even though I wouldn't watch it again, I still recommend you go and see it if you haven't already!
I like to maintain my take on time travel as described by Sheldon in Big Bang theory
"Sheldon: It occurs to me that if I ever did invent a time machine, I will just go into the past and give it to myself. Thus eliminating the need to invent it in first place. That really takes the pressure off".
I would like to hear what you guys think of time travel, after all it has be one of the favourite subject of speculative science fiction.
The whole universe only needs one well maintained time machine.
I like the clause in their roommate agreement - if any of them ever invents a time machine, the first stop will be their meeting on the roommate agreement when they are discussing it.
Honestly, I'm rarely a fan of time travel stories. They tend to be full of plot holes and half-baked logic. Since everything is theoretical, it seems like many writers just pull whatever rules they feel like out of a hat, and use it as a sort of deus ex machina. Very rarely is it used well in my opinion. Primer is one of the rare exceptions because it's well structured and thought out (maddeningly so), but overall I tend to skip such things.
Also, it could be noted that Primer being about time travel could be considered a spoiler. I didn't know what it was about until it was actually revealed in the movie, and I was kind of happy having it that way.
Let me just clarify a little bit. Traveling to the past is not possible. "Traveling" to the future is already known how to.
At least some fiction make a coherent history for how time travel works, like Primer or Asimov's book 'The End of Eternity'... Unlike for example Donnie Darko, a movie that i love, but the ending....
I just wanted to clarify that it's very misleading to say that this film cost $7000. It cost $7000 and several years of Shane's life, as well as a torrent of favours from his friends, family and others.
Why is this an important distinction? Because you can't calculate or quote business investment and return while discarding the cost of people working for several years on a project for free.
Saying that Primer cost Shane Carruth $7000 to make is like saying that The Harry Potter Book Series cost J K Rowling 19 ink cartridges.
It's important to appreciate what Shane achieved with such few resources though, and it's interesting to note also that he was a software engineer before making his way into filmmaking.
I have to say I felt that Memento was only good for a single watching. This may be an oversimplification, but if you reorganized the movie with all the scenes in reverse it would just be a mediocre movie about a guy who can't remember anything and the people he interacts with. I guess I just felt it was gimmicky.
Primer, on the other hand doesn't use a single editing gimmick or plot twist, but rather does a deep drive in the mind bending situations that can occur when time travel becomes possible.
It's definitely the most complex of the bunch, but most of them were great finds. Cube was another low-budget gem, and on the other end of the spectrum there's The Game with Michael Douglas.
Thanks for this awesome list, unfortunately it seems I've watched most of them. I especially recommend La Jetee (the Hollywood remake, Twelve Monkeys is also good) and Solaris.
I started watching Primer but gave up after 10 minutes or so, maybe the effects of watching it late after you put your child to sleep.
But The man from Earth was just boring, I don't get why so many people liked it.
Bad actors, the hero claims are either dull or ridiculous (I laughed a lot when he pretended to be J.), and most important of all, not surprising.
I knew what the movie was about before I saw it, and if it can't show me more than I can imagine myself, it just sucks.
I'll be happy to get some downvotes so that some of you could save 2 hours by not viewing this movie.
The actors themselves have done good work, but they did the best they could with the writing. I was annoyed by the historical inaccuracies, but mainly it came off as though it was written by a college freshman.
If you liked Star Trek: TOS, or perhaps any Star Trek, you should not listen to this man. Watch the movie at least once. Although heavily flawed and not particularly novel (just like Star Trek) it will strike a chord with some people. It did with me.
92 comments
[ 4.4 ms ] story [ 158 ms ] threadThe linked timeline from the article is actually pretty "easy" to read and really helped me understand what I've just seen. Just watch the movie beforehand :)
http://neuwanstein.fw.hu/primer_timeline.html
Edit: The entire movie is officially(?) available on Google Video, though the quality is not that good. You should find yourself a better copy...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3909854615539675694#
If you haven't seen it, find the incredible review of the Phantom Menace on YouTube by Red Letter Media. The most insightful part is where he asks people to describe the nature of the characters in both trilogies. For the original movies, people instantly recall, for example the "dashing...arrogant..scoundrel" Han Solo. For the newer films, nothing. What was princess Amidala like? Nobody cares.
Avatar suffered from this, and no amount of shiny graphics could ever bring me to care. With great characters you can forgive all kinds of things (eg Battlestar Galactica.)
Stories like these are part of what makes us human.
I have seen it 17 to 18 times, and even-though people have attempted to explain everything that is going on to me I still have a hard time wrapping my mind around it. Awesome for the hacker in you!
On a side note, my biggest annoyance with Wikipedia is manifest in articles about movies. For some reason, they allow an editorial policy of essentially writing out a scene by scene account of a movie.
From about two or three viewings, I got about a third of it right.
I would stress that not all of Wikipedia falls into that trap. Obscure information (histories of places, etc) read quite well, and tend to get the information balance right. However, pop culture and movies in particular, seem to attract a kitchen sink style, as though someone just sat through the film with a laptop, and typed up everything as it was happening on the screen in front of them.
Check it out: http://www.preceden.com
Just some feedback lower the barrier to entry. From the initial look of it, it seems like it would have a steep learning curve.
Your stats look great though. Spend $60 and get $145 back, you are on to something.
The $5/day the led to that $60 didn't result in any paying customers, so I stopped. Blog reviews and word of mouth are much more effective.
As far as usability goes, it should be pretty easy to use. There are advanced features, but for a simple timeline, you should be off and running in minutes.
Hope you like it.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1187064/
If you're broke, it's available on Bittorrent (I am broke). Otherwise you won't regret your purchase.
But Primer is pure mind-bending sci-fi. You could feel the atmosphere of the guys inventing something like few other movies.
Actually - this is how I think a startup should feel and look like: the way the movie portrays it at the beginning, while the guys are still figuring things out.
Another surprisingly good lower-budget/-attention sci-fi film is PANDORUM.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0480669/
SPOILER ALERT.
Also, single timeline based time travel is just plain better than multiple timeline based time travel. There are just way too many problems that having multiple timelines introduces. I don't think you can ever tie up all lose ends with multiple timelines... someone can always just build a time machine later and fork the past. Maybe Primer addresses this with the limitations of their devices.
Maybe there were some interesting ideas, but it just felt so clunky and amateurish.
I've watched this movie several times and I pick up on new things almost every time.
"Sheldon: It occurs to me that if I ever did invent a time machine, I will just go into the past and give it to myself. Thus eliminating the need to invent it in first place. That really takes the pressure off".
I would like to hear what you guys think of time travel, after all it has be one of the favourite subject of speculative science fiction.
I like the clause in their roommate agreement - if any of them ever invents a time machine, the first stop will be their meeting on the roommate agreement when they are discussing it.
Honestly, I'm rarely a fan of time travel stories. They tend to be full of plot holes and half-baked logic. Since everything is theoretical, it seems like many writers just pull whatever rules they feel like out of a hat, and use it as a sort of deus ex machina. Very rarely is it used well in my opinion. Primer is one of the rare exceptions because it's well structured and thought out (maddeningly so), but overall I tend to skip such things.
Also, it could be noted that Primer being about time travel could be considered a spoiler. I didn't know what it was about until it was actually revealed in the movie, and I was kind of happy having it that way.
Let me just clarify a little bit. Traveling to the past is not possible. "Traveling" to the future is already known how to.
At least some fiction make a coherent history for how time travel works, like Primer or Asimov's book 'The End of Eternity'... Unlike for example Donnie Darko, a movie that i love, but the ending....
Why is this an important distinction? Because you can't calculate or quote business investment and return while discarding the cost of people working for several years on a project for free.
Saying that Primer cost Shane Carruth $7000 to make is like saying that The Harry Potter Book Series cost J K Rowling 19 ink cartridges.
It's important to appreciate what Shane achieved with such few resources though, and it's interesting to note also that he was a software engineer before making his way into filmmaking.
IMO it stays with you a long time after you've watched it..
Primer, on the other hand doesn't use a single editing gimmick or plot twist, but rather does a deep drive in the mind bending situations that can occur when time travel becomes possible.
I can't say I've watched Momento more than once. I guess that says something in itself.
I'll definitely be getting a copy of Primer now!
http://www.themorningnews.org/archives/reviews/mindfuck_movi...
It's definitely the most complex of the bunch, but most of them were great finds. Cube was another low-budget gem, and on the other end of the spectrum there's The Game with Michael Douglas.
I started watching Primer but gave up after 10 minutes or so, maybe the effects of watching it late after you put your child to sleep.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_from_Earth
But The man from Earth was just boring, I don't get why so many people liked it.
Bad actors, the hero claims are either dull or ridiculous (I laughed a lot when he pretended to be J.), and most important of all, not surprising. I knew what the movie was about before I saw it, and if it can't show me more than I can imagine myself, it just sucks.
I'll be happy to get some downvotes so that some of you could save 2 hours by not viewing this movie.