OK. Here's one of those parts, the frame head top.[1] Needs at least 4-axis machining, maybe 5. I wonder how the work is held. All the modeled parts are frame components or brackets. No moving parts. It's a frame replacement. It's a nice piece of work, but the hype exceeds what's been done.
This reminds me of early marketing for the MakerBot Replicator, which was supposed to be able to "replicate itself". Except for the motors, leadscrews, bearings, extruder, and electronics. The few 3D printed parts were frame connectors.
The part you referenced was done on a 3-axis machine by one of our manufacturing partners. Like many expert machinists, he's got some ingenious methods for reducing set ups.
Appreciate that feedback. As someone who painfully remembers the early MakerBot marketing days, I feel the frustration.
Would be great to hear any suggestions on changes you'd make. Definitely want to make sure the copy is representative of the project.
We were inspired after we saw other motorcycle projects that beautiful, but didn't have any files available, or weren't even drivable. So we wanted to make a frame that was easily customizable and could be road-ready as fast as possible.
Can I pick your brain further? Feel free to email me at madelynn@fictiv.com. Happy to talk more about how the work is held, machines needed, etc. as well.
Sorry yial, looks like the current email flow causes friction, it's being fixed now. Here's the files: http://bit.ly/2mU6l2y and feel free to reach out with any questions.
My mistake, I eventually did get an email with a link to the files --- I would rate it more under my own impatience coupled with the redirect to the fictiv main site.
CNC machined parts
Machine at your local machine shop by through leveraging
Fictiv's distributed manufacturing network
Looking at the parts in the photo, they'll need at least a 5 axis CNC machine. If it's for a one-off (or even low volume) job, that's not going to be cheap.
Well I guess the idea is that by using Fictiv you should be able to have these parts machined at a relatively low cost.
By the way, I'm always thoroughly impressed by Fictiv's marketing strategy, blog posts, and community outreach. They're doing a great job at making you WANT to use their services.
> They're doing a great job at making you WANT to use their services.
??? You're literally the first person I've seen give that sentiment. Maybe I'm just getting the wrong impression from this "Open-Source Motorcycle" vapourware of theirs.
Some of the more complex parts are better suited for a 5-axis machine, but there are some great machine shops (including ones we work with)that specialize in this kind of work.
The goal of the project was to keep the cost to build at around $10-15k, which is cheaper than most custom jobs. This prototype ran closer to $20k, but with improvements on new versions, and the possibility of producing the parts in batch for interested parties, we can continue to keep the cost down.
Of course, cost can vary greatly depending on any additional modifications you might want to make.
They're probably using a stock engine. They're not building tires, wheels, bearings, seat, controls, transmission, or chain. This looks like a custom frame job, not an "open source motorcycle".
There's an active market in aftermarket frames, but they're usually welded. This thing is held together with hex head screws. Tighten before each ride.
Now if Fictiv wanted to make frames to order, they'd have a CNC tube [1] bender and a CNC tube welder.[2] A service which could make welded units out of tubing cheaply, accurately, and to order would be useful. Custom car, motorcycle, beach buggy, trailer, and go-cart jobs are often built from tube steel, so there's a market.
Design your collection of tubes, and have the software figure out the bends and welds, telling you if you've designed something not buildable with the available equipment. There's software for that, not from Fictiv.[3] With a service like that available, others might find new applications for custom tube assemblies.
On a related topic, here's a scary video of a tubing bender.[1] This is an example of something that's automated just enough to be out of human control, but not enough to be safely keep the operator out of the workspace. Note the operator being hit by the end of the tube at 00:45. If that job had called for more bend, he would have been impaled. OSHA lists 85 bending machine injuries, usually involving finger amputation.[2] Bending machines are unusually hazardous because the workpiece can move way outside the machine's own boundary.
Don't design stuff like that. Either put the process under continuous operator control, or get the operator clear of the moving parts.
Looking a the sideshot, it just appears to be an older style Ducati Monster with the trademark trellis frame replaced and a switch to a twinshock rear suspension.
Yup, we decided to start with the older Ducati Monster Gen 1 trellis frame because:
a) it's widely accessible (used on Ducati bikes made from 1993-2007). Our team is based in SF, which is a distribution point for Ducati, meaning there's a glut of old generations available to tear apart, but they're easily accessible everywhere.
b) the mounting points on the engine mean that you can swap out for multiple types of engines, depending on your preference (620, 800, and you could possibly wedge a 748 in there if you really wanted to...)
c) the frame allows easy customization of the CAD files, based on style preference - you can make it shorter for a Bobber, longer for a Cafe Racer, change the rake and trail angles, etc. to fit your needs.
One of the women on the team who inspired this project is a track racer and finds it difficult to find bikes that work for her shorter stature, so this was a great use case for the customization.
We originally wanted to keep it 10-15k, current files if produced as a 1-off may run higher, (closer to 20k). With interest, we want to batch produce these which keeps the cost lower. Cost will vary depending on obvious modifications and sources.
The download also has the full BOM, you can download those here: http://bit.ly/2mU6l2y
Thanks for responding. Without knowing much about Ducatis, what are the engine models that are available for this? Didn't see any jump out at first scan of the files.
PS you'll want to change your README.txt to README.md for Github's markdown formatter to read it correctly.
M600, M750, S2R 800. M900, later 748’s, and 916’s with a SSS (single-sided swing arm). Some other engines that require a SSS are also doable, but may need some additional modifications.
Thanks for the note on README, will adjust accordingly!
Can anyone tell if this is really open source [1] [2]. The design files are not available available to me, even after trying to 'get early access'.
I'm always wary of companies claiming "open source" as they often incorrectly think that opens source means "we let you look at the code" and don't release the source code and design files under a free/libre license.
Yup, we followed OSH guidelines when building this project. As open source advocates here at Fictiv, we wanted the CAD to be downloadable and modifiable by anyone.
We realize that the current email signup flow causes some friction to getting the files, it's being remedied ASAP. In the meanwhile, here's the files: http://bit.ly/2mU6l2y
Hey all, Madelynn here, community director at Fictiv and one of the folks on the Open-Source Motorcycle project.
Thanks for sharing this project and giving feedback, looks like the signup flow is causing some confusion, so we're in process of removing the need to enter your email to get access to the files.
I'm passionate about open source, as is our team, so we intended this project to be entirely open source and available to anyone to download, modify, and build upon the project. Documentation is still in the works, and I'm always looking for more folks to help out.
To remove vaporware concerns, you can download the files straight from here: http://bit.ly/2mU6l2y, and email me if you have any questions directly to me at madelynn@fictiv.com
If you want to talk motorcycles in general, I'm all ears there too. :)
Hm, I don't see any issues with that, let me see what I can do. Feel free to email me if you have any other suggestions, on the files or documentation (which is being built out now), always could use another POV.
Any plans to extend the open source work to electric motorcycles? There's a lot of motorcycle building talent over at https://endless-sphere.com/forums/, but I don't think anyone there is working on anything that's explicitly open source.
31 comments
[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 82.7 ms ] threadThis reminds me of early marketing for the MakerBot Replicator, which was supposed to be able to "replicate itself". Except for the motors, leadscrews, bearings, extruder, and electronics. The few 3D printed parts were frame connectors.
[1] https://pichoster.net/images/2017/03/16/7c1f2cae9ebcab7cea27...
Appreciate that feedback. As someone who painfully remembers the early MakerBot marketing days, I feel the frustration.
Would be great to hear any suggestions on changes you'd make. Definitely want to make sure the copy is representative of the project.
We were inspired after we saw other motorcycle projects that beautiful, but didn't have any files available, or weren't even drivable. So we wanted to make a frame that was easily customizable and could be road-ready as fast as possible.
Can I pick your brain further? Feel free to email me at madelynn@fictiv.com. Happy to talk more about how the work is held, machines needed, etc. as well.
It seems like this is an ad for Fictiv, and not an ad or information about an open source motorcycle?
Thanks so much!
By the way, I'm always thoroughly impressed by Fictiv's marketing strategy, blog posts, and community outreach. They're doing a great job at making you WANT to use their services.
??? You're literally the first person I've seen give that sentiment. Maybe I'm just getting the wrong impression from this "Open-Source Motorcycle" vapourware of theirs.
The goal of the project was to keep the cost to build at around $10-15k, which is cheaper than most custom jobs. This prototype ran closer to $20k, but with improvements on new versions, and the possibility of producing the parts in batch for interested parties, we can continue to keep the cost down.
Of course, cost can vary greatly depending on any additional modifications you might want to make.
There's an active market in aftermarket frames, but they're usually welded. This thing is held together with hex head screws. Tighten before each ride.
Now if Fictiv wanted to make frames to order, they'd have a CNC tube [1] bender and a CNC tube welder.[2] A service which could make welded units out of tubing cheaply, accurately, and to order would be useful. Custom car, motorcycle, beach buggy, trailer, and go-cart jobs are often built from tube steel, so there's a market. Design your collection of tubes, and have the software figure out the bends and welds, telling you if you've designed something not buildable with the available equipment. There's software for that, not from Fictiv.[3] With a service like that available, others might find new applications for custom tube assemblies.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m99U7qejm2g [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRuqb6wquig [3] http://www.bend-tech.com/product_infos/bt_pro.html
Don't design stuff like that. Either put the process under continuous operator control, or get the operator clear of the moving parts.
[1] https://youtu.be/ocvx_gQJ0sI?t=41 [2] https://www.osha.gov/pls/imis/AccidentSearch.search?acc_keyw...
Not my bike as I don't have a picture handy:
http://moto.zombdrive.com/images/ducati-monster-620-dark-10....
a) it's widely accessible (used on Ducati bikes made from 1993-2007). Our team is based in SF, which is a distribution point for Ducati, meaning there's a glut of old generations available to tear apart, but they're easily accessible everywhere.
b) the mounting points on the engine mean that you can swap out for multiple types of engines, depending on your preference (620, 800, and you could possibly wedge a 748 in there if you really wanted to...)
c) the frame allows easy customization of the CAD files, based on style preference - you can make it shorter for a Bobber, longer for a Cafe Racer, change the rake and trail angles, etc. to fit your needs.
One of the women on the team who inspired this project is a track racer and finds it difficult to find bikes that work for her shorter stature, so this was a great use case for the customization.
The download also has the full BOM, you can download those here: http://bit.ly/2mU6l2y
PS you'll want to change your README.txt to README.md for Github's markdown formatter to read it correctly.
Thanks for the note on README, will adjust accordingly!
I'm always wary of companies claiming "open source" as they often incorrectly think that opens source means "we let you look at the code" and don't release the source code and design files under a free/libre license.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_software
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-source_hardware
We realize that the current email signup flow causes some friction to getting the files, it's being remedied ASAP. In the meanwhile, here's the files: http://bit.ly/2mU6l2y
Thanks for sharing this project and giving feedback, looks like the signup flow is causing some confusion, so we're in process of removing the need to enter your email to get access to the files.
I'm passionate about open source, as is our team, so we intended this project to be entirely open source and available to anyone to download, modify, and build upon the project. Documentation is still in the works, and I'm always looking for more folks to help out.
To remove vaporware concerns, you can download the files straight from here: http://bit.ly/2mU6l2y, and email me if you have any questions directly to me at madelynn@fictiv.com
If you want to talk motorcycles in general, I'm all ears there too. :)
With the STEP files for download, their metadata indicates they were created using Solidworks 2014.
Would it be feasible to include the Solidworks files for people to download too?
Although not everyone has Solidworks (obviously), its native file format would be useful for those who do. :)
Hm, I don't see any issues with that, let me see what I can do. Feel free to email me if you have any other suggestions, on the files or documentation (which is being built out now), always could use another POV.