Ask HN: How can I grow this or gain more traction?
Anyway, I got To->Done featured on the front page of Lifehacker and got about 30,000 visits the first couple days after launch. Two months later, traffic has trickled to a crawl. There are definitely active users that visit it every day, but not a lot of them.
I'm wondering what I can do to take this to the next level. It's by design uncomplicated, not a ton of features for you to get lost in, etc. So I'm not even sure what the "next level" means. I'd love to have more traffic and users, but I'm not sure how to bring them in. I don't see a way to make the site viral, since todo lists are inherently private. I'm definitely not going to pay for traditional paid search marketing, since I'm not trying to make any money on the site right now.
I really just don't know what to do with it, and wonder if what I built is just inherently ungrowable since it's an application for private actions that has a philosophy of ultra-minimalism. Should I go gung-ho into this somehow or just put out a feature every couple weeks and switch full focus onto the 100 other ideas I have laying around?
Thanks!
43 comments
[ 3.3 ms ] story [ 72.4 ms ] threadIt would be like using the web to get the eye-balls, and the devices to make the money.
I'd make it an app with two main buttons "add todo item" and "I have time for something". Optionally, you could be fancy and add a push notify to remind someone to get a todo item done during lunch or before they leave work.
Second, focus on talking to the few users you have, see what they like/don't like. Even while keeping it minimal, I am reasonably sure you can still improve the experience a lot. Don't add features, but polish polish polish. Is the entry field perfect. Can it be faster? Etc..
Once you do that, and once you start to hear feedback that your users really truly love it, then you can start worrying about promoting it :)
In other words: it's not because you want to keep it minimal that you're done.
On the second point, I'm a user of the app myself and haven't found any pain points. I'm not really hearing about pain points from users either. It's really just new features people seem to want. But I do think I need to think about how I can incorporate these ideas into a framework of simplicity -- not just discount the ideas outright as a perversion of my vision :)
Have you received any feedback on "missing" features? Done any measurement of what aspects your existing userbase does use?
Feature wise, we're using Get Satsifaction, and have had a decent amount of feedback. Most common features are things like making apps (mobile/desktop), APIs or integration (e.g. with RTM) -- these things make sense. Then there is another class of feedback which is like "add priorities" "let me see my tasks" "add recurring tasks" etc. These don't make any sense to me because there are already apps that perfectly fulfill those needs if people have them.
Measurement wise, I'm only really tracking "active" users (and tasks entered/completed etc). There's just so little to do, that I don't know if there is any action to take based on it. Anyway, the bigger problem is traffic. Only ~30% or so of my traffic are new visitors. It's really just beginning to boil down to a group of dedicated users and no traffic driving for new visitors.
Obviously not. Those other apps don't offer the simplicity and UI experience that yours does. What you're offering is resonating with some people, but they want what you have right now plus more. People are telling you this, and you're just telling them to go away and use another tool? Your prerogative, but you're asking how to take this to the 'next level', and your users are already telling you how - you don't need to ask HN.
But you're right that I should not discount these things out of hand. I have a blank slate and it may be possible to incorporate the things that i think are relevant in a new and unobtrusive way. e.g. in a way that may only be visible to power users. For example, one feature request I do agree with is the idea of contexts, e.g. @work, @home, @school, etc. I think it makes perfect sense. I was thinking I could allow people to use @ tags in their task description (e.g. "Mow the grass @home"), then in the "give me something to do" section add a "at [dropdown]" that only appears if they've entered location-sensitive tasks. That way, the feature only adds complexity IF you want to use it.
Great food for thought. Thanks.
Only possible issue is that the verb tense users enter a task with (in English at least) does not jibe with what would grammatically make sense to tweet e.g. task: "mow the lawn" -- tweet: "finished mow the lawn" I would need either turn it into past tense "mowed the lawn" or a present participle "finished mowing the lawn". You definitely want these export-to-social events to be light touch 0 or 1 click things, and not need the user to correct the tense of their verbs. Interesting problem.
Okay, maybe I did get lucky. All I did was email one of the editors.
What do you need to do?
<< I need to _____ which will take me _____ <b>Remember</b> >>
When you have some time, tell us how much, and we'll give you something to do:
<< I have ___ available right now. <b>Give me something to do</b> >>
((grayed out until you've entered something above))
Also I'd recommend bolding the important text as indicated above-- users scanning the page will be able to at a glance exactly what the app offers. The arrows as buttons feel too much like hierarchical navigation (esp on the top navbar) and it isn't clear that I should be clicking them).
I'm not convinced I want to kill the home/landing page. I think it could still serve a purpose, just with extreme optimization. I could see putting something actionable on there (entering your first todo). Then of course at the extreme end is your idea. I'll have to think about this pretty hard. Maybe even A/B test it.
I think the point about arrows as buttons is a really good one. I haven't seen any metrics that people aren't acting on them, but I think your intuition is spot on that you lose these kind of stand-out action verbs that reinforce what the app is all about. I think I just overdid it on trying to keep the design "slick" rather than abiding by long-standing conventions.
Thanks for the feedback!
- Some services aren't meant to be taken to 'the next level'. You should weigh its opportunity and make the appropriate decision. For me, it was to realize that I'd built something 'timeless' that didn't need next-levelling and re-iteration, so I chose to leave it like it is and be content with its 2,000+ daily users. I figured I'd spend my time on other things that had a bigger inherent opportunity than beat a horse that just fundamentally isn't inclined to go far enough.
- When it comes to making money, there are 2 basic options services like ours have: donations and iPhone app. I was lucky to have built a fantastic userbase from the get-go, so the same people who purchased my iPhone app also have given around $600 - $700 in donations when I've requested for it. Sure, it's no major money, but it's enough to support my time and energy and hosting costs, and I'm content with it.
- Appreciate your trickled traffic. I noticed today that 2,000 people have been using my service EVERY DAY for the last 2 years. That means something to me. Not every service is supposed to be a pageview-generating machine. What's important to me is that 2,000 people take the time to go to my website and write down their private thoughts every day. I'd rather have this than 10,000 meaningless pageviews from Google.
Your site looks cool. It's kind of funny, because I actually had a very similar idea about diarying (kind of inspired by Keel's Simple Diary), and it's one of the ideas I was considering bringing off the shelf. It was definitely much more social and amenable to virality than To->Done. :)
Any email I can contact you?
> It's by design uncomplicated, not a ton of features for you to get lost in,
There may not be a ton of features, but there is an awful lot of "talking" involved before the user gets down to business. I agree with others that you need to minimize this or get rid of it completely. Get to the action ASAP. See Joshwa's comment.
> I really just don't know what to do with it, and wonder if what I built is just inherently ungrowable
I'm sure you can grow it if you really want, but how much do you want to? It seems like your enthusiasm is already waning. Nothing wrong with letting it coast and seeing what happens. Maybe you'll get excited about it again later.
Or, you can dig in and try to market it. Here's an idea I had for my app which you're welcome to use. Let users link their todo list to Facebook, and then automatically post a huzzah to their wall when they complete something. In general, I think your idea that todo lists must be inherently private is wrong, and making privacy the exception rather than the rule might open up some "viral" possibilities.
Anyway, good luck. :)
What's funny is that I thought I had boiled down the homepage to a succinct "sell" explaining the app. But looking at it now, I see that it definitely looks like a "features" page and not a landing page. And there is no reason I can't have an actionable form on the homepage. Still, I have a traffic driving problem, and my homepage optimization problem is secondary. But I think you guys have helped me lift the cloud I was in thinking the front page looked okay. It's actually starting to repulse me now, heh.
I know anything can be grown, and I will admit that my enthusiasm is waning, but I think it's because I'm recognizing right now that the main way I have to grow this is by just bombarding productivity/lifestyle bloggers about it. I KNOW that's necessary, and I would feel motivated about it if this was a "business". But it's not, and it's hard to drum up the fire to put on my marketing hat. I was hoping for more of a 2nd order effect from Lifehacker (e.g. smaller bloggers picking up the story and then blogging on their own) but it didn't really happen.
I think you're right that I'm wrong about todo lists being inherently private. I'd like to think of something more clever than wall-spamming, maybe achievements or levels etc, so even if you don't share, you still are playing a metagame by yourself on the site which may make it more sticky. Or keeping a history of what you've done so you can feel good about it in the afterglow. Something like that. But I do need to focus on virality, not stickiness.
Thanks for the good response!
1. Mobile phone apps. With something like PhoneGap you should be able to do this relatively quickly.
2. For every new registered user, add a to-do item that they need to tell their friends about the app, giving it 5 minutes. This might work but regardless, I hope you think creatively about marketing it and getting your users to market it for you.
2 - this is a brilliant idea. You're hired! :) Funny thing is, I had thought about injecting pseudo-todos, but they were more like funny/inspirational/zen things - like "don't worry about anything right now... just close your eyes" It had never occurred to me to use that idea to market the app. :)
We used KISSinsights on HelpaStartupOut.com to help us pick the best categories, add additional ones, and remove the non useful ones. We're still in the learning stage but its good to get user input in shaping your product and figuring out how they actually use your product
BTW: I'm glad you self-plugged because it seems like I could use HelpaStartupOut.com - maybe not for this but for other ideas. Frankly I'm surprised we don't have more partnering up on HN...
"So please go ahead" <-- The A is important.
Also, the yellow is kind of obnoxious to me; I would prefer a green or blue.
You might have learned that your assumptions about what people want were wrong. I would bombard every user who signed up and quit with a personal sounding, "Hey, I'd love to hear your thoughts on why this isn't the right to-do list tool for you."
But yeah, you're hitting the wall that most web app makers hit. The site doesn't market itself (most don't unless they are designed for virality or SEO). If you don't want to self educate about marketing, then I'd put a bullet in and make sure your next idea has some built-in marketing juice.
I've definitely thought about nudge emails. I'll definitely do it if I decide to press on with this maybe after I add a few new features that might interest people.
I'm not averse to performing or educating myself about marketing, but like I said, I don't know if I could give it my all when I know that the site is likely not financially viable. I guess if I decide to continue I'll just have to see what social juice I can squeeze out of it.
Thanks :)
Maybe you could write a couple of articles about your system, how you might use it, why it's better than other systems and who it will work well for (or maybe an ebook would work). Then use the description of your overall time management system/apporach to lead people into your tool.