Will my earning potential be severely limited as a felon?
Last year in February I was arrested and charged with 4 counts of possession with intent to distribute (I had small amounts of 4 different drugs). My case is a few months away from coming to a close. While there's a small chance I could receive a deal that drops my charges after successful completion of probation, it's somewhat likely I will instead do probation and receive the convictions.
I fear that if I receive the convictions (which cannot be expunged in my state) then I will be limited to small companies with mediocre pay. Is this true? Are my hopes of making a great living in this field squandered because I screwed up, admittedly totally, at one point in my life?
I'm re enrolling in school this fall and still have 3 ish years to go due to switching majors to CS. Showing that I can finish school will work on my favor. Are there any other things I can be doing to improve my chances of finding a great job after school if I do indeed receive convictions?
Thanks :)
42 comments
[ 3.9 ms ] story [ 64.7 ms ] threadBut given the resources to start your own company, even if it is bootstrapped, I think you have more options today than he did back them.
Honest question: Is it actually illegal to discriminate in the hiring process based on criminal record? Especially if it's a felony?
Not directly.
I mean, given the disparate impact on protected classes, you could maybe make a case that of their isn't some clear business justification, it's indirect, e.g., racial discrimination and illegal for that reason, but I suspect it wouldn't take much to convince a court of the justification of most real-world policies involving criminal-record discrimination.
There are, obviously, inappropriate and illegal bases for discrimination, but without any discrimination, the only way to make decisions is randomly (and even that is, really, discrimination based on alignment with the results of your source of randomness.)
The short answer is it depends on where you live. Many states and localities, particularly in California, have enacted "ban the box" laws. ("the box" in this particular case is a box you must check if you have been convicted of any crime). The rationale behind these laws is that ex-cons who are potentially productive members of society don't need to keep getting punished after they served their time.
Can you discriminate against someone for having a criminal record? Yes, but if there's enough of a paper trail, and you're in one of these localities, they can sue you under these laws. Most of these laws have exceptions for, say, sex offenders applying at daycares, or check fraudsters applying at banks, but the decision has to be appropriately documented.
SF and LA are pushing the laws even harder. They've recognized that ex-cons who can't find decent work will just end up burdening the system further by reoffending, rather than paying taxes and working. If they're square with the house, the house must be square with them.
A handful of local jurisdictions have adopted additional restrictions on use of criminal background in hiring beyond "ban the box"—so-called "fair chance in hiring" laws—but none of them go so far as to prohibit use of criminal history as a factor in employment.
You understand that the law, is a thing unto itself. The language of the law may use english but the words start to take on very different meanings.
If you haven't you should listen lenny bruce. His take on the law is second to none. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Klrml3tI29E
Discrimination is not always illegal. Discriminating based on certain characteristics is illegal.
You implied that OP could sue for discrimination, and s/he can't.
Based on your other comments, I think you're the one who needs to do some googling...
I was in the same boat but with worse drug charges. Very few startups will do background checks and after 7yrs an employment background check in california legally cant show convictions before then anyways.
Its not like you killed or raped someone.
Plus, dont pay lip service to the thought police. You ingested a drug and theres nothing wrong with that. Lie to the judge and say you're sorry if you must but they are in the wrong not you.
If we were in a position to hire right now, and I were evaluating you as a candidate, it would barely factor in at all. Hell, I might even consider it a positive. But I'm a government hating libertarian who thinks all drug laws should be abolished, so my position may be a bit unique.
To be honest half of SV is on something or the other. So drug use / arrest for it for a small amount shouldn't be a big issue
Lots of companies that do background checks aren't doing them to see if you have an arrest record at all.
They are doing them to see if you have been honest and if you haven't been convicted of financial crimes, or computer crimes.
The former is a big deal if you do credit card processing and money handling, the latter may or may not be an issue depending on what it is and who you are working for.
Smaller companies give a lot of leeway to hiring managers, and there are jobs that you may be excluded from, but it isn't the end of the world. Honestly, places that believe past performance is a predictor of future results need a reality check. Peoples lives, and circumstances change enough that it isn't a good predictor of anything.
As you are a CS student, I highly recommend that you start working on and contributing to open source projects and personal projects. Working as an engineer ends one of three ways... You spend your years pushing the buttons and collecting a check, you do that same thing and get lucky with an exit or you start doing your own thing. That last one gives you mastery over your own fate and destiny and is the way a lot of us are really getting ahead.
It is much easier to try and fail when your young... eating ramen, working long hours aren't as rough on you and not having kids or dependents are big factors to you being able to sustain a lifestyle that those of us who are older don't have as easy of a time doing.
This is common knowledge. Just go read the book -- Marked: Race, Crime and Finding Work in an Era of Mass Incarceration.
Why pretend like being black isn't a severe disadvantage in terms of almost every metric you can think of? Failing to acknowledge reality just perpetuates inequity.
Sorry, but I'm not sugar coating reality for felons, white or black. People saying "you'll be fine" are just lying, full-stop. You will not be fine. You may be able to succeed, as many ex-felons have (which is really just survivorship bias as many felons stop looking for work all together), but your success will pale in comparison compared to the alternate self where you were not a felon. The discrimination against felons in the United States is borderline a human rights violation.
I wonder how many people in this thread have actually talked to felons who are looking for a job.
- http://thecrimereport.s3.amazonaws.com/2/fb/e/2362/criminal_...
- https://thinkprogress.org/a-black-college-student-has-the-sa...
- https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2011/dec/15/study-shows...
In any case, if you have evidence suggesting that a felony doesn't ridiculously reduce your employment prospects and earning potential (among other things), I'd love to see it.
Some notes from talking to hiring managers at my company:
1. I suspect HR just passes on felons directly during the application phase. What this means for you is that you need to bypass this. So if you pursue tech, networking is going to become super crucial for you.
2. Something like crime would prove to be a tie-breaker if things are hard to judge. Given the lack of objectivity during tech interviews, this will put you at a disadvantage. In order to get your foot in the door, I would try to a "big fish in a small pond." Meaning, apply at smaller companies, non-profits, etc. Places where tech isn't the primary focus and show value.
3. I assume you've seen this site [1]. I was reading an article a long time ago and saw it referenced. Hopefully it can be of use to you.
4. What I would strongly recommend is just becoming as good as you can, building your network as indicated in (1) and just contract and freelance. You know much better than I do. The discrimination against you for being a felon (even if it's non-violent) is offensive.
[1] https://exoffenders.net/
Make sure to demonstrate that you have ties to the community. Get letters from friends, teachers, relatives, coworkers, etc tonget in front of the judge and prosecutor.
You sound like someone who got caught up in something. Show that regret and accept responsibility. I haven't been through this, but I know people who have... good luck.
Saying that a white person with such a conviction is no big deal is ludicrous.
You may want to re-read what you typed again. Perhaps you meant something else.
And yes, I've already provided evidence on how your race will affect your earning potential, even as a felon. Given that white felons may have better opportunities than blacks with college degrees, being a white felon could be as "bad" as being a black college graduate. Take it as you will.
If you have evidence contradicting mine I'd love to read it.
Focus on places with "ban the box" laws and jobs that don't have direct impact with financial or health data.
You'll be fine. Hold yourself to a higher standard going forward and you'll be fine.
In any case, I'd suggest you keep your dev skills above average. That will help make this situation less important. With a shortage of skilled professionals, certain things can be ignored provided they aren't too blatant (or are shown to have improved).