Interesting article, showing how important material science is for improving our lives.
I was surprised to read "older customers need a range of multifocal options". Did not know that multifocal contact lenses even existed!
Also, it really is a pity that only glasses and contact lenses are available for people with myopia, laser surgery having a high risk of various complications, most prominently eye dryness.
Eye dryness is only a temporary side-effect from laser eye surgery (as are halo effects and increased light sensitivity), which can easily be treated.
There are a few actual complications, but they are rarer than complications from wearing contacts (depending to a certain extent on the clinic, of course).
What worries me about LASIK is that there is no agreed definition of what constitutes a successful surgery.
I see adverts with claims like "98% of our patients see 20/20 or better after surgery". I feel like this is disingenuous and taking advantage of the fact that "20/20" is perceived as the gold standard for vision.
In fact many glasses and contacts wearers achieve 20/15 or 20/10 vision after correction, so the advert is telling me nothing about my chances of my best-corrected vision after surgery being as good as it is now. Plus there's a chance that LASIK might leave me with good vision but other side effects like dryness or haloes. AND there's the 2% chance they actually admit to that I'll have worse than 20/20 vision.
I don't know, maybe some people are so happy to throw away their glasses for ever that they'll put up with slightly worse vision and other side effects. I'm just not sure yet whether I'm one of them.
It was a standard determined by Snellen, the inventor of the standard optometrist's eye chart. [0]
Snellen defined “standard vision” as the ability to recognize one of his optotypes when it subtended 5 minutes of arc.
Basically each line on the chart is marked with a distance such that it subtends 5 minutes of arc from that distance away. 20/20 simply means that you can see the 20 feet line from 20 feet away (20 feet being the standard testing distance). In no way does it represent "perfect" vision or the best possible resolution of the human eye.
Next time you go for an eye test you'll notice that the 20 line is usually the 3rd or 4th line up from the bottom. So if you can read lower than this your vision is "better than 20/20". This is often achievable with correction, even if your uncorrected vision is quite bad. (I believe there are limits to this with very high myopia, because of distortion caused by very thick lenses, etc).
This is why I find the way that LASIK is marketed to be disingenuous. I feel like people might be seduced by the offer of "20/20" vision, not realising that they already see better than that with their glasses on. The fact that LASIK companies are not 100% upfront about this just makes me a little suspicious about what else they might be hiding.
Disclaimer: I'm not an optometrist. Anyone who actually knows what they're talking about, feel free to correct me!
That's very true. I've noticed that optometrists generally don't actually ask me to read out the letters to prove what I can see.
They usually just use it while making incremental changes to the lenses and asking "which is better, 1 or 2". There would be no benefit to lying since I want my prescription to be accurate.
I guess it's different when the chart is actually used for a "test", like when someone is trying to become a pilot or whatever. There must be a little guesswork to get the best possible "score"! Then again I know there are other ways to measure the refraction of the eye, so I'm sure they don't rely on the chart alone.
I had LASEK (a less invasive, longer recovery option to LASIK) a few years ago.
My suggestion is if you are at all interested in the procedure, and I would HIGHLY recommend it, is to find a doctor that performs both styles of procedures, will educate you fully on the pros and cons of both, and will offer recommendations with quantitative reasoning. I went with the LASEK route for many reasons, however my cornea in one eye was too thin to support the correction needed for LASIK with the number of microns lost due to the scalpel incision.
The largest issues are that the outcomes of LASIK/LASEK are quasi-permanent and that there are many more variables involved than just an eye exam, including your own calmness during the procedure.
My doctor offered, as long as the eye can support the number of microns lost due to the correction, to perform a followup surgery if results ended up being poorer than 20/30 after the first surgery, free of charge. It took a few days before I could see the results (an issue with the method of procedure) however I resulted with 20/20 in one eye and 20/15 in the other.
Indeed, it seems that the risk of significant vision loss consequence of LASIK surgery is ~5 times lower than that of contact-lens wearing, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LASIK#Risks . However, it also seems that this risk is tiny, on the order of 0.05%. Other complications of LASIK seem much more likely (see the same link). It would be interesting to see a large study comparing LASIK with wearing contact lenses.
I thought that halos (on low-light, wide pupil dilation) were a possible permanent, not temporary, side-effect. That's the primary thing that's prevented me from seeking LASIK as night flight in a darkened cockpit is prime time to have wide pupil dilation.
I thought that LASIK still cut an epithelial flap. Am I mistaken, or has there been an improvement/change to the surgical process since I last looked at it in detail?
We might be using the word flap here in differant ways.
With LASIK, they remove part of the eye, zap it, and then replace the 'flap' for it to re-attach. When it reattaches, it heals around the edges and this is what causes the HALOs in many people. It can also come loose if you are hit or jarred, like playing sports, boxing, mugged, car accident, pets, etc.
With LASEK, they dissolve the protective layer, called the epithelium, zap the eye, and then you keep your eyes closed for 24-48 hours while the epithelium regenerates -- they don't reattach it. With LASEK, there is nothing to come loose later and no edge tissue to cause halos.
Lasik still has no 100% guarantee (and your vision might still get worse by mere aging). And to me it really doesn't matter whether I'll have the hassle of 0.5-1.5 corrective lenses or my current 6's.
And yeah, multifocal lenses are a thing. Even my regular ones are weighted, and you can do the same there to achieve the same results as regular bifocal glasses. Although I know someone who just has different corrections for each eye, which sounds a bit weird to me.
This came up earlier this week, but wanted to repost it here since so many of you reached out about wanting to know more....
After extensive research on all options, I found LASEK (not LASIK) to be the safest, healthiest, highest quality and best option.
Here is my reply before...
If you get LASEK vs. LASIK halos aren't a problem. I had LASEK done perhaps 8 years ago, and my eyes went from 20/400 to better than 20/15 overnight.
The entire procedure was incredible including an HD prescription profile generated by scanning your entire eye. This is 10-20x more accurate a prescription than is possible with the standard methods.
The process is $4k-$5k but with financing comes down to about the same you spend on glasses or contacts annually.
No risk of halos as there is no "flap" cut like with LASIK, no chance it will come loose, and more accurate vision than you could ever achieve with lenses.
The quality of life upgrade is incredible, no scratchy eyes, no falling asleep and waking up with stinging eyes, and for sports it's incredible.
I can't explain what going from 20/400 to 20/15 is like, but basically I walked around manhattan for 6 months feeling like I was on LSD in awe of being able to see the mortar between bricks on the tops of buildings.
I found the best LASEK surgeon in the country and have brought in friends / CEOs from other states and introduced them with incredible results.
If anyone wants more info, an intro, etc. let me know and I can probably get you $500 or $1k off if you end up doing it.
I had PRK done from a popular surgeon who has done sports stars and even NFL quarterbacks (there are many good surgeons around) and it was successful and I am happy with it but I don't think you should evangelize so much about these surgeries. Some people have terrible outcomes and their vision is completely ruined. I personally think a flap with LASIK is just too dangerous and PRK (maybe LASEK) is much safer, but even people have issues with PRK (less than LASIK).
I've seen you make the same exact post in the last vision related thread.
Please stop shilling for whomever it is.
The main risk associated with these surgeries is that there's no "preview" to check if your vision will be better or worse than your current contact-corrected vision.
If it's worse - then by my definition, the procedure is a failure and that's the only thing I care about. The risk that it's worse isn't the same as the risk that is commonly defined in the success of the procedure - it's much higher.
Dude you are trying to get a commission by referring your eye center. We get it.
Don't be an idiot and claim these eye surgeries are perfectly safe. They have serious risks, including blindness.
I am very happy with my PRK, but my colleague had his eyes bulging out because of excessive pressure and had some eye damage. But such testimonials are not so useful. Go into these surgeries expecting you could be the in the minority of people who have a complication.
You may have seen my other post, but what you may NOT have seen is that I pre-empted my previous comment with:
>> This came up earlier this week, but wanted to repost it here since so many of you reached out about wanting to know more....<<
I literally had 30+ people asking me for more information, so it was clearly useful.. and no I wasn't shilling for anyone, though I am happy to introduce folks to my friend if they want my specific doctor.. I am interested in helping more people get LASEK however, as it is genuinely a major upgrade for your life.
There is no preview with any surgery, all you can really do is look at the probabilities of tens of thousands of procedures and speak with a surgeon.
And sure, you can have any subjective definition of success you want -- for example, if the surgery didn't allow you see through walls with x-ray vision, you could call it a failure.
I understand what you are saying though, your fear is that you'd get LASK, and then you'd still need to wear glasses or contacts.
You are talking about risks and things being much* higher -- I'd appreciate if you cite some sort of research or other statistics on LASEK.
All of that said, my quality of life is easily 10x what it was before, so for me, it was a risk well worth taking. If I would have been worse off after my surgery, I wouldn't have had to pay -- so aside from the small risk of having a small routine medical procedure (which also could be safely redone to try again if needed) there was no financial risk and minimal time..
31 comments
[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 74.5 ms ] threadI was surprised to read "older customers need a range of multifocal options". Did not know that multifocal contact lenses even existed!
Also, it really is a pity that only glasses and contact lenses are available for people with myopia, laser surgery having a high risk of various complications, most prominently eye dryness.
There are a few actual complications, but they are rarer than complications from wearing contacts (depending to a certain extent on the clinic, of course).
I see adverts with claims like "98% of our patients see 20/20 or better after surgery". I feel like this is disingenuous and taking advantage of the fact that "20/20" is perceived as the gold standard for vision.
In fact many glasses and contacts wearers achieve 20/15 or 20/10 vision after correction, so the advert is telling me nothing about my chances of my best-corrected vision after surgery being as good as it is now. Plus there's a chance that LASIK might leave me with good vision but other side effects like dryness or haloes. AND there's the 2% chance they actually admit to that I'll have worse than 20/20 vision.
I don't know, maybe some people are so happy to throw away their glasses for ever that they'll put up with slightly worse vision and other side effects. I'm just not sure yet whether I'm one of them.
Snellen defined “standard vision” as the ability to recognize one of his optotypes when it subtended 5 minutes of arc.
Basically each line on the chart is marked with a distance such that it subtends 5 minutes of arc from that distance away. 20/20 simply means that you can see the 20 feet line from 20 feet away (20 feet being the standard testing distance). In no way does it represent "perfect" vision or the best possible resolution of the human eye.
Next time you go for an eye test you'll notice that the 20 line is usually the 3rd or 4th line up from the bottom. So if you can read lower than this your vision is "better than 20/20". This is often achievable with correction, even if your uncorrected vision is quite bad. (I believe there are limits to this with very high myopia, because of distortion caused by very thick lenses, etc).
This is why I find the way that LASIK is marketed to be disingenuous. I feel like people might be seduced by the offer of "20/20" vision, not realising that they already see better than that with their glasses on. The fact that LASIK companies are not 100% upfront about this just makes me a little suspicious about what else they might be hiding.
Disclaimer: I'm not an optometrist. Anyone who actually knows what they're talking about, feel free to correct me!
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snellen_chart#.226.2F6.22.28m....
They usually just use it while making incremental changes to the lenses and asking "which is better, 1 or 2". There would be no benefit to lying since I want my prescription to be accurate.
I guess it's different when the chart is actually used for a "test", like when someone is trying to become a pilot or whatever. There must be a little guesswork to get the best possible "score"! Then again I know there are other ways to measure the refraction of the eye, so I'm sure they don't rely on the chart alone.
My suggestion is if you are at all interested in the procedure, and I would HIGHLY recommend it, is to find a doctor that performs both styles of procedures, will educate you fully on the pros and cons of both, and will offer recommendations with quantitative reasoning. I went with the LASEK route for many reasons, however my cornea in one eye was too thin to support the correction needed for LASIK with the number of microns lost due to the scalpel incision.
The largest issues are that the outcomes of LASIK/LASEK are quasi-permanent and that there are many more variables involved than just an eye exam, including your own calmness during the procedure.
My doctor offered, as long as the eye can support the number of microns lost due to the correction, to perform a followup surgery if results ended up being poorer than 20/30 after the first surgery, free of charge. It took a few days before I could see the results (an issue with the method of procedure) however I resulted with 20/20 in one eye and 20/15 in the other.
As mentioned above, I feel like I ought to be evangelical about this as the quality of life increase is incredible.
Read my previous comments and if you want more info or an intro reach out >> anthony at 175g com
Indeed, it seems that the risk of significant vision loss consequence of LASIK surgery is ~5 times lower than that of contact-lens wearing, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LASIK#Risks . However, it also seems that this risk is tiny, on the order of 0.05%. Other complications of LASIK seem much more likely (see the same link). It would be interesting to see a large study comparing LASIK with wearing contact lenses.
I posted about that this week in another thread, I'll see if I can paste my response here..
With LASIK, they remove part of the eye, zap it, and then replace the 'flap' for it to re-attach. When it reattaches, it heals around the edges and this is what causes the HALOs in many people. It can also come loose if you are hit or jarred, like playing sports, boxing, mugged, car accident, pets, etc.
With LASEK, they dissolve the protective layer, called the epithelium, zap the eye, and then you keep your eyes closed for 24-48 hours while the epithelium regenerates -- they don't reattach it. With LASEK, there is nothing to come loose later and no edge tissue to cause halos.
And yeah, multifocal lenses are a thing. Even my regular ones are weighted, and you can do the same there to achieve the same results as regular bifocal glasses. Although I know someone who just has different corrections for each eye, which sounds a bit weird to me.
After extensive research on all options, I found LASEK (not LASIK) to be the safest, healthiest, highest quality and best option.
Here is my reply before...
If you get LASEK vs. LASIK halos aren't a problem. I had LASEK done perhaps 8 years ago, and my eyes went from 20/400 to better than 20/15 overnight.
The entire procedure was incredible including an HD prescription profile generated by scanning your entire eye. This is 10-20x more accurate a prescription than is possible with the standard methods.
The process is $4k-$5k but with financing comes down to about the same you spend on glasses or contacts annually. No risk of halos as there is no "flap" cut like with LASIK, no chance it will come loose, and more accurate vision than you could ever achieve with lenses.
The quality of life upgrade is incredible, no scratchy eyes, no falling asleep and waking up with stinging eyes, and for sports it's incredible.
I can't explain what going from 20/400 to 20/15 is like, but basically I walked around manhattan for 6 months feeling like I was on LSD in awe of being able to see the mortar between bricks on the tops of buildings.
I found the best LASEK surgeon in the country and have brought in friends / CEOs from other states and introduced them with incredible results.
If anyone wants more info, an intro, etc. let me know and I can probably get you $500 or $1k off if you end up doing it.
Anthony at 175g dot com
An article: (I didn't do from this place) https://diamondvision.com/prk-vs-lasek/
Please stop shilling for whomever it is.
The main risk associated with these surgeries is that there's no "preview" to check if your vision will be better or worse than your current contact-corrected vision.
If it's worse - then by my definition, the procedure is a failure and that's the only thing I care about. The risk that it's worse isn't the same as the risk that is commonly defined in the success of the procedure - it's much higher.
I'm offering my personal experience and offering to answer people's questions because I had such a positive experience.
And at someone's request, introducing them to the person I used personally after a pretty exhaustive search into how to get "super human eyes".
It seems to me to pretty standard human behavior to want to share something that enhances your life with others.
Don't be an idiot and claim these eye surgeries are perfectly safe. They have serious risks, including blindness.
I am very happy with my PRK, but my colleague had his eyes bulging out because of excessive pressure and had some eye damage. But such testimonials are not so useful. Go into these surgeries expecting you could be the in the minority of people who have a complication.
>> This came up earlier this week, but wanted to repost it here since so many of you reached out about wanting to know more....<<
I literally had 30+ people asking me for more information, so it was clearly useful.. and no I wasn't shilling for anyone, though I am happy to introduce folks to my friend if they want my specific doctor.. I am interested in helping more people get LASEK however, as it is genuinely a major upgrade for your life.
There is no preview with any surgery, all you can really do is look at the probabilities of tens of thousands of procedures and speak with a surgeon.
And sure, you can have any subjective definition of success you want -- for example, if the surgery didn't allow you see through walls with x-ray vision, you could call it a failure.
I understand what you are saying though, your fear is that you'd get LASK, and then you'd still need to wear glasses or contacts.
You are talking about risks and things being much* higher -- I'd appreciate if you cite some sort of research or other statistics on LASEK.
All of that said, my quality of life is easily 10x what it was before, so for me, it was a risk well worth taking. If I would have been worse off after my surgery, I wouldn't have had to pay -- so aside from the small risk of having a small routine medical procedure (which also could be safely redone to try again if needed) there was no financial risk and minimal time..