Reddit doesn't like The Black List because it's a bit pay to play and exclusive, like the industry it serves. Sounds like the author let that transfer to him a bit, because it's one of the most powerful channels for a promising screenplay (especially if it makes it to the List itself), and I too found the criticism awfully misguided, particularly with how personal it is.
If I put it harshly, I think that bit about the List is a subtle clue about the author holding himself back and burning bridges before he ever gets to them.
Eh, I saw enough anecdata to pick up on the "I've been ripped off" vibe more than just typical online bitching. He made it a personal mission to come into threads and offer "free alternate reviews" but so many people didn't even want to try again. That was very telling to me - not even repeat business when free? Ouch.
Part of my business model is to be Independent to a fault. If you go read the Reddit thread and compare it with the essay, they align. I told the guy I didn't need his site because I was aiming for the Nicholl, which, time and again, people were very positive about. He wished me luck, and me back to him with his objectives.
I used to be a Counter-Strike 1.1 Spray n Pray jockey. Not when I have to put up cash these days though...each shot has to count a lot...
His criticism is that The Blacklist is built on the idea that their are shit loads (hundreds of thousands, millions?) of really crappy scripts written every year by people with a dream. These dreamers are a lucrative business for many service providers in Hollywood. It's not that no service is provided in exchange for the money paid, but when you offer a service which explicitly sells the dream (when the reality is that a miniscule percentage actually "make it") then that is what is smarmy.
That said, I don't personally have a problem with it myself, mostly because you are getting something for your money. You'd almost certainly be better off going about things differently (sitting around waiting for Hollywood to call just because you put your script on The Blacklist--or anywhere--is a distinctly ineffective strategy).
Nail on the head, re: the criticism. I just think it's important to be up front about the odds. By comparison, Script Revolution basically says "You probably won't make it, so join us to show there's merit in not buying into the old system" and that, to me, was a point of inspiration. The idea that the money paid could be a "Who Knows?!" type black-box of critical integrity just rubs me the wrong way.
I am not a writer, but I am a long-time movie fanatic, and I have a screenplay I want so badly to write but don't know where to begin. Any tips on that?
I wrote, I think, ten pages just going in blindly and think they probably suck, but wouldn't even know who to ask if that was true.
They say the writing isn't in the first draft it's in the last draft. Writing is re-writing.
Francis Ford Coppola's advice to George Lucas was "Write the first draft really quickly, in 2 weeks, don't read what you wrote, just finish it, then keep re-reading it and fix stuff as you go."
Also Stephen King's book "On Writing" might be helpful
You might want to read "Save the Cat!" which gives a lot of practical tips for structuring your screenplay so people won't automatically nix it. A friend from a top film school (for whatever that's worth) had it as part of his curriculum.
One thing that comes up again and again is location. If you are in the US and are writing for film, you pretty much have to be in Los Angeles if you want screenwriting to be your career.
IMHO, yes, as would any other city within a few hours. You just need to be close enough to pound the pavement and take meetings. Of course it is marginally better to be able to list a Los Angeles phone number and address on your contact info.
Try the "writing excuses" podcast. Is not screenwriting, but many many of the same elements apply. Also, screenwriting is ultimately meant for the screen, so that intently means a collaboration with someone visual. Talk to people who will be honest with you, but only once you've finished at least a scene. Your idea, the thing you want to write, can get lost if you listen to too many people before getting it down and out at least once.
Seconding Save the Cat, my favorite book on Screenwriting (and I've read most of them). Terry Rossio's columns at Wordplayer[1] are also fantastic. Rossio is half the team that wrote Zorro, Shrek and Pirates of the Carribean.
Robert McKee wrote an incredibly famous book called, Story: Substance, Structure, Style and the Principles of Screenwriting [1]. I've had multiple people stop me on the street as I was carrying it and remark of how great a book it was. It should answer most of your questions.
Yes, read Robert Ben Garant and Thomas Lennon's "Writing Movies for Fun and Profit" a couple times. There will be chapters that don't matter, and there will be incredibly important chapters (ex: "Every studio blockbuster should follow the structure of 'Die Hard'") but all of them will be fun to read.
One of the hardest parts is understanding the formatting expectations of screenplays. Read a couple (pilots for TV shows like "Breaking Bad" are great) and then use some software to help you get the hang of the format. You don't need to have blank page syndrome - in fact, I think the formatting of scripts is kind of liberating.
You don't have to be a writer to craft great scripts. You have to be a storyteller. The mechanics might overlap, but don't be afraid to try.
I entered a Google-Blacklist screenwriting contest last year to promote non-stereotyped tech characters in media.* I wrote a pilot about a couple raising a family while running a makerspace. The reviewer didn't like it because it was too tech-focused and most people wouldn't get it. Then they got really hung up on the fact that my couple was mixed race, and said that it was not only wrong of me not to draw more attention to this fact, but that the whole first episode should have focused entirely on it. The review was so obtuse, and knew so little about my audience and the subject matter it was astonishing. It reminded me of an English teacher friend who did away with peer reviews, arguing that having other students who are as inexperienced as you critiquing your work will only hurt you.
*I'm fairly certain now it was either a scam or another one of those Google side-projects they fund and forget about because winners were never announced.
I'm not sure I understand the author's vitriol regarding The Black List. I think a lot of untalented people try their hand at fame without going through the pains of education, study, practice, and mastery. This has been made painfully obvious on reality shows, like American Idol, for years, hasn't it?
To me, paying $20 a month for The Black List to tell you that you're not ready seems like a reasonable investment in one's dreams. How could you possibly know where you stand if you never subject yourself to failure and criticism?
It's not just $20 a month, but you need to pay for 2 script reads, $50 each, so the first month's total is $120. Realistically, it's $140, as it takes a while to get the 2 script reads. If you score high enough, you get put on the highlight email list. If you don't, you're just available for discovery. Basically, if you don't score high enough, you're wasting your money.
The author didn't understand that you're paying for access, if your script scores high enough.
Are you really wasting your money though? Having someone read and critique your work is extremely valuable, even if you rank low (well, it is if you're willing to listen). I cannot emphasize the value of constructive criticism enough. My degree is in creative writing, and by far the biggest value I received from college came through both offering and receiving criticism.
I've never received an evaluation from The Black List, but if you actually get what their FAQs promise, "Your evaluation will include an overall rating and ratings on premise, plot, characters, dialogue, and setting, all from 1 to 10. It will also include brief answers about the script's greatest strengths, weaknesses, and commercial prospects." I think the price-to-value ratio of their service is quite good.
>>I think the price-to-value ratio of their service is quite good.
One almost wishes a similar service for scientific papers exists along the lines of a "paid dry-run peer review". Unfortunately this probably wouldn't take away from the need/burden of unpaid paper refeering for journals, but at least it's an idea to make another revenue stream available to staff doing the actual work that doesn't get co-opted by Elsevier or their non-open access ilk.
Here's the deal though, if there's no consistency to the scoring, what are you paying for? Even if a piece scores highly, access to an audience isn't any more of a guarantee of feedback than posting a piece on Medium.
What I meant to get to, and as your response shows I missed something, my bad, was quality has a tendency to go viral. Getting into some outlets - most notably Contests - then backing things up with Hosting is a good order of operations long-term.
I know the whole song and dance of paying for "exposure" and never once did I recoup. That's what bugs me about the business model - most every client will be in the red. Even if they score high enough.
Or, in other words, it's nice to be the best looking person in the strip club, but business is business.
On a related note, I love this quote from the article. Because it also sums up entrepreneurs and startup ideas perfectly:
"You could post your life’s work online for the world to see, read, and download, and you’d still have better odds to be killed by a lightning strike than be ripped off and cheated out of millions of dollars."
Same goes for startup founders and creators there. The chance of someone 'stealing' your ideas and turning them into the next Google or Facebook are pretty much non existent. Enough with the pointless NDAs and paranoia before your company's even started.
Thanks to all who read the piece and contributed. I stepped away for a day to rest and came back to a piece that caught fire in this arena and others (re: screenwriting audiences). I'm going to respond as able with honesty because that's how community works. I do appreciate your time.
31 comments
[ 1.7 ms ] story [ 97.2 ms ] threadIf I put it harshly, I think that bit about the List is a subtle clue about the author holding himself back and burning bridges before he ever gets to them.
Part of my business model is to be Independent to a fault. If you go read the Reddit thread and compare it with the essay, they align. I told the guy I didn't need his site because I was aiming for the Nicholl, which, time and again, people were very positive about. He wished me luck, and me back to him with his objectives.
I used to be a Counter-Strike 1.1 Spray n Pray jockey. Not when I have to put up cash these days though...each shot has to count a lot...
That said, I don't personally have a problem with it myself, mostly because you are getting something for your money. You'd almost certainly be better off going about things differently (sitting around waiting for Hollywood to call just because you put your script on The Blacklist--or anywhere--is a distinctly ineffective strategy).
I wrote, I think, ten pages just going in blindly and think they probably suck, but wouldn't even know who to ask if that was true.
Francis Ford Coppola's advice to George Lucas was "Write the first draft really quickly, in 2 weeks, don't read what you wrote, just finish it, then keep re-reading it and fix stuff as you go."
Also Stephen King's book "On Writing" might be helpful
https://johnaugust.com/podcast
One thing that comes up again and again is location. If you are in the US and are writing for film, you pretty much have to be in Los Angeles if you want screenwriting to be your career.
[1] http://www.wordplayer.com/columns/welcome.html
[1] https://www.amazon.com/Story-Substance-Structure-Principles-...
One of the hardest parts is understanding the formatting expectations of screenplays. Read a couple (pilots for TV shows like "Breaking Bad" are great) and then use some software to help you get the hang of the format. You don't need to have blank page syndrome - in fact, I think the formatting of scripts is kind of liberating.
You don't have to be a writer to craft great scripts. You have to be a storyteller. The mechanics might overlap, but don't be afraid to try.
https://screenplayreaders.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boo...
The fact is, a 24 year old that's paid 25 bucks, doesn't really have a good barometer for what makes a good movie.
It's all just so subjective.
*I'm fairly certain now it was either a scam or another one of those Google side-projects they fund and forget about because winners were never announced.
To me, paying $20 a month for The Black List to tell you that you're not ready seems like a reasonable investment in one's dreams. How could you possibly know where you stand if you never subject yourself to failure and criticism?
The author didn't understand that you're paying for access, if your script scores high enough.
I've never received an evaluation from The Black List, but if you actually get what their FAQs promise, "Your evaluation will include an overall rating and ratings on premise, plot, characters, dialogue, and setting, all from 1 to 10. It will also include brief answers about the script's greatest strengths, weaknesses, and commercial prospects." I think the price-to-value ratio of their service is quite good.
One almost wishes a similar service for scientific papers exists along the lines of a "paid dry-run peer review". Unfortunately this probably wouldn't take away from the need/burden of unpaid paper refeering for journals, but at least it's an idea to make another revenue stream available to staff doing the actual work that doesn't get co-opted by Elsevier or their non-open access ilk.
What I meant to get to, and as your response shows I missed something, my bad, was quality has a tendency to go viral. Getting into some outlets - most notably Contests - then backing things up with Hosting is a good order of operations long-term.
I know the whole song and dance of paying for "exposure" and never once did I recoup. That's what bugs me about the business model - most every client will be in the red. Even if they score high enough.
Or, in other words, it's nice to be the best looking person in the strip club, but business is business.
"You could post your life’s work online for the world to see, read, and download, and you’d still have better odds to be killed by a lightning strike than be ripped off and cheated out of millions of dollars."
Same goes for startup founders and creators there. The chance of someone 'stealing' your ideas and turning them into the next Google or Facebook are pretty much non existent. Enough with the pointless NDAs and paranoia before your company's even started.
Of the companies you listed fully 50% were founded as the direct result of ripping off someone's idea and starting a company.