Q3 had lots of mods and different types of player run servers. Quake Live also got 'balance' changes that Q3 didn't get (like changes to LG/Rail damage)
If you love CPMA I cannot recommend Reflex enough. To me no game has truly captured the spirit of the arena shooter in the same way. It really feels like the developers have their heart in the right place with a laser-like focus on the gameplay and difficulty curve that made me fall in love with Q3 in the first place.
I'm actually really enjoying the DooM (2016) multiplayer now that they've polished it up a little. It reminds me a lot of original DooM deathmatches with a few little updates like Freeze Tag from when the DooM source went open and stuff like ZDoom popped up.
It's not though, each character has a different special ability from what I understand. That's an idea antithetical to the spirit of Quake 3 which is obviously what this is trying to replicate.
Reflex is the game you should care about if you enjoy Quake 3.
Unfortunately I think it needed a re-release to infuse some more players into the game. Game is really not well populated, especially at lower skill levels
I hope the UI is customization - there was a lot of stuff going on there that made it distracting. The more they are releasing the less I am worried about it so far, excited!
I'm glad they've gone back to a relatively clean and legible environment design and aesthetic. Some of the environments in Doom 2016 are really hard to look at, and consequently hard to play competitively because they devolve into a mist of brown/red details that obscure both the level geometry and other players.
If you're looking to play Q3 CPMA I have to recommend you check out Reflex. It's everything I've always wanted from an arena shooter. Incredibly smooth low latency gameplay with perhaps the kindest community I've ever come across in an online shooter.
Quake Champions is a complete bastardization of the franchise, and an attempt by Bethesda to revitalize the Quake IP with increasingly familiar Overwatch / Paladins / TF2 formula.
Will the game be fun? Probably. But I doubt you will see more than 50,000 peak concurrent players, and I doubt QC will be anything but a blip on Quake's timeline.
The ethos of Arena FPS has been abandoned by Bethesda. The community has been begging for Bethesda to remaster Quake Live with a modern UI and modern matchmaking. It took 4+ years to implement a party system, so you could join games with friends. The state they left Quake Live in is such a disappointment, especially considering its potential in eSports. How they came to the conclusion that it was the gameplay or the graphics stopping people from trying Quake Live is beyond me. People want lobbies, ranks, matchmaking options beyond quick play, etc.
The demand for photorealism over high visibility has had an unattended consequence in relying on game engines that are frankly too easy to cheat in competitive multiplayer. Even if QC became popular, it would be plagued by the same fundamental client trust issues that CSGO has. I would be very surprised if this game maintained any sort of following through 2018. QC is a serious misstep, especially when it offers nothing but brooding backdrops to compete with Overwatch, which is already a very good contender in the mass-market Arena FPS world.
/r/Diabotical gives me some hope. Reflex has quickly established itself as the replacement game for CPMA diehards. But real Arena FPS has not figured out a way to break into the mass market, and probably never will.
Quake Live community was thriving during 2008. Then starcraft II came out and it died out. I really miss it. I tried playing again, but they 1) dropped linux support (WTF?) 2) reimplemented game physics (WHY??) 3) added auto strafe jumping ???
so many idiotic choices. I don't get it. Oh well, back to playing Quake III at LAN parties with friends I guess.
Don't forget that it was F2P, and then it wasn't! Beyond that, the UI was horrible. The UX was horrible. It's not hard to imagine why the game never broke through. They added a party system, but no queue. Finding a duel could easily take 30+ minutes. Even with the party system, getting on the same team as a friend in CA took patiently waiting out the SPEC queue, and then battling the auto-balance to stay together. They finally caved and added QL to Steam, but Bethesda did nothing to make the game easier to pick up and play, and playing with friends (especially more than one) just wasn't fun or feasible.
"The demand for photorealism over high visibility has had an unattended consequence in relying on game engines that are frankly too easy to cheat in competitive multiplayer. Even if QC became popular, it would be plagued by the same fundamental client trust issues that CSGO has."
The concept of immutable game states has not quite permeated into competitive online gaming, for a number of reasons.
To understand the state of anti-cheat, first you need the context that cheaters are perhaps the most prolific customers of popular online games. They are constantly buying (selling, and trading) accounts. Many developers are happy to employ weak anti cheat techniques like memory profile hashing (EAC, VAC) because they result in ban waves and buy waves, both of which can be controlled and planned. In the case of CS:GO, a ban wave is almost always immediately succeeded by a discounted sale on the game. There are perverse incentives to maintain the status quo in the cheat/anti-cheat war, and this is but one of them.
This type of cheat, the techniques it uses to scan and alter memory, have been used in CS as early as 2001. This specific project has been open source since early 2016. Looking at the timeline of development in Counter-Strike history, extensive work and outsourcing has gone into improving the graphics, sound, and maps, with almost nothing being done to improve the game's immutability. Hacking is more prevalent, more trivial than it has ever been in the history of Counter-Strike.
The same fate is now true for the history of Quake. QC is likely to launch as a beta with NO anti-cheat, as there only have been vague announcements regarding a third-party partnership (aka, EAC) to achieve it. It is hard to understand if this is incompetence or on purpose, but either way, QC will be seen as a greenfield for competitive cheats, especially as Bethesda has no reputation for defeating hackers.
The truth is that it would take a complete rethinking of game engines to ensure competitive online play is fair. But developers know they would be preventing a line of reoccurring revenue. CS:GO has dealt with the proliferation of hackers by isolating them (offering "Prime" matchmaking that requires grinding to a certain level and tying your account to your phone number), but at the consequence of a lot of new/low-level players getting stuck with hackers.
I'm sorry but are you seriously believe that or just venting some stuff? Because statements like cheaters are perhaps the most prolific customers of popular online games need some data, I mean, it's easy to see how that thought was formed - cheater gets banned, cheater buys another copy - but if the game is popular it's probably negligible effect.
This specific project has been open source since early 2016. Looking at the timeline of development in Counter-Strike history, extensive work and outsourcing has gone into improving the graphics, sound, and maps, with almost nothing being done to improve the game's immutability. Hacking is more prevalent, more trivial than it has ever been in the history of Counter-Strike.
Oh, come on, nothing was done and cheating is as easy as ever? And what do you mean by game's immutability other than that you can't cheat when looking at a screenshot?
In terms of the number of game copies an individual buys, cheaters are certainly the most prolific. I am not saying that cheaters make up the majority of sales or purchases of any game, just that as a group of customers, they will buy a game account and play it until it is banned, and then buy another. They are power buyers in this sense.
Oh, come on, nothing was done and cheating is as easy as ever? And what do you mean by game's immutability other than that you can't cheat when looking at a screenshot?
Yes, this is exactly my point. Cheating is easier on CS:GO than it has ever been. There is currently no anti-cheat implementation for the CS:GO Linux client. Cheating on Ubuntu is as easy as `git clone aimtux.` No other counter-measures are needed.
More so, the client-server model CS:GO uses for their game networking is inherently insecure, and VAC (memory profile hashing) has proven so ineffective that Valve has tried to complement it with a crowd-sourced cheating detection (Overwatch) that lets players review and vote on suspicious players. That would be a good supplement to an otherwise effective anti-cheating system, but google "Overwatch bypass" and you will see that this is just as easily defeated. You could say that "Prime Matchmaking" (described in a comment elsewhere) is another concession by Valve that their software-based anti-cheat is completely ineffective, and that they are resorting to psychological measures and gameplay changes to curb cheating.
When I say "nothing has been done to improve game state immutability", I am saying that the same memory scanning hacks/techniques have existed in online FPS for 20 years. The client has too much control over their game state, and there is very little signing or checking of the client's game state.
I'm not sure how you can bastardize a franchise in which the first game was a gothic horror shooter, the second was a linear sci-fi shooter, the third was a multiplayer-only arena, the fourth was a sequel to the second, and there was also an RTS.
I would say the bastardization here is the addition of Quake Champions, instead of the commitment to Quake Live. We want Quake Remastered, not Overwatch: Quake Edition.
Bethesda became convinced years ago that the reason people stopped playing Quake Live was because of the lack of variety, or something like that. They never listened to those of us screaming at the top of our collective lungs that the menus are horrible, and it takes forever to find a game, especially with friends. It's that simple. And now we have Quake Champions.
There is a distinct difference in gameplay between Overwatch and other shooters like Doom and Titanfall 2; Overwatch feels like you are moving a piece around a board, setting it up for "special attacks", almost like a MOBA in first-person view. If Wuake Champions doesn't suffer from this, it'll be a great Quake game.
Also note that different character classes and "personalities" were planned from Q3A but mostly scrapped.
Hmm... I'm a bit torn on this. It's a little too slow to be Quake and the quips and movement remind me a little too much of Overwatch. It's like they're trying to fit the formula into what's currently popular without adding anything new just to try and capitalize on the nostalgia of the name.
There's a reason Quake was popular for so long and why Quake Live was popular after that. Just stick with the basics and add the things that weren't possible back then. Don't try to conform it to Overwatch or whatever the latest game is. You're not going to dethrone CSGO and Overwatch by trying to copy them and just naming it "Quake".
34 comments
[ 3.3 ms ] story [ 86.5 ms ] threadDoom 4's multiplayer was kind of lackluster, but a new Q3A should be great.
Reflex is the game you should care about if you enjoy Quake 3.
It sounds like CPMA's creator arQon hasn't been heard from in a few years, but the source code is held by at least one or two other people[0].
http://www.esreality.com/post/2839396/to-arqon-cpma-sources/...
Will the game be fun? Probably. But I doubt you will see more than 50,000 peak concurrent players, and I doubt QC will be anything but a blip on Quake's timeline.
The ethos of Arena FPS has been abandoned by Bethesda. The community has been begging for Bethesda to remaster Quake Live with a modern UI and modern matchmaking. It took 4+ years to implement a party system, so you could join games with friends. The state they left Quake Live in is such a disappointment, especially considering its potential in eSports. How they came to the conclusion that it was the gameplay or the graphics stopping people from trying Quake Live is beyond me. People want lobbies, ranks, matchmaking options beyond quick play, etc.
The demand for photorealism over high visibility has had an unattended consequence in relying on game engines that are frankly too easy to cheat in competitive multiplayer. Even if QC became popular, it would be plagued by the same fundamental client trust issues that CSGO has. I would be very surprised if this game maintained any sort of following through 2018. QC is a serious misstep, especially when it offers nothing but brooding backdrops to compete with Overwatch, which is already a very good contender in the mass-market Arena FPS world.
/r/Diabotical gives me some hope. Reflex has quickly established itself as the replacement game for CPMA diehards. But real Arena FPS has not figured out a way to break into the mass market, and probably never will.
so many idiotic choices. I don't get it. Oh well, back to playing Quake III at LAN parties with friends I guess.
Could you explain why this is, please?
To understand the state of anti-cheat, first you need the context that cheaters are perhaps the most prolific customers of popular online games. They are constantly buying (selling, and trading) accounts. Many developers are happy to employ weak anti cheat techniques like memory profile hashing (EAC, VAC) because they result in ban waves and buy waves, both of which can be controlled and planned. In the case of CS:GO, a ban wave is almost always immediately succeeded by a discounted sale on the game. There are perverse incentives to maintain the status quo in the cheat/anti-cheat war, and this is but one of them.
Take AimTux for instance: https://github.com/AimTuxOfficial/AimTux
This type of cheat, the techniques it uses to scan and alter memory, have been used in CS as early as 2001. This specific project has been open source since early 2016. Looking at the timeline of development in Counter-Strike history, extensive work and outsourcing has gone into improving the graphics, sound, and maps, with almost nothing being done to improve the game's immutability. Hacking is more prevalent, more trivial than it has ever been in the history of Counter-Strike.
The same fate is now true for the history of Quake. QC is likely to launch as a beta with NO anti-cheat, as there only have been vague announcements regarding a third-party partnership (aka, EAC) to achieve it. It is hard to understand if this is incompetence or on purpose, but either way, QC will be seen as a greenfield for competitive cheats, especially as Bethesda has no reputation for defeating hackers.
The truth is that it would take a complete rethinking of game engines to ensure competitive online play is fair. But developers know they would be preventing a line of reoccurring revenue. CS:GO has dealt with the proliferation of hackers by isolating them (offering "Prime" matchmaking that requires grinding to a certain level and tying your account to your phone number), but at the consequence of a lot of new/low-level players getting stuck with hackers.
This specific project has been open source since early 2016. Looking at the timeline of development in Counter-Strike history, extensive work and outsourcing has gone into improving the graphics, sound, and maps, with almost nothing being done to improve the game's immutability. Hacking is more prevalent, more trivial than it has ever been in the history of Counter-Strike.
Oh, come on, nothing was done and cheating is as easy as ever? And what do you mean by game's immutability other than that you can't cheat when looking at a screenshot?
Oh, come on, nothing was done and cheating is as easy as ever? And what do you mean by game's immutability other than that you can't cheat when looking at a screenshot?
Yes, this is exactly my point. Cheating is easier on CS:GO than it has ever been. There is currently no anti-cheat implementation for the CS:GO Linux client. Cheating on Ubuntu is as easy as `git clone aimtux.` No other counter-measures are needed.
More so, the client-server model CS:GO uses for their game networking is inherently insecure, and VAC (memory profile hashing) has proven so ineffective that Valve has tried to complement it with a crowd-sourced cheating detection (Overwatch) that lets players review and vote on suspicious players. That would be a good supplement to an otherwise effective anti-cheating system, but google "Overwatch bypass" and you will see that this is just as easily defeated. You could say that "Prime Matchmaking" (described in a comment elsewhere) is another concession by Valve that their software-based anti-cheat is completely ineffective, and that they are resorting to psychological measures and gameplay changes to curb cheating.
When I say "nothing has been done to improve game state immutability", I am saying that the same memory scanning hacks/techniques have existed in online FPS for 20 years. The client has too much control over their game state, and there is very little signing or checking of the client's game state.
Bethesda became convinced years ago that the reason people stopped playing Quake Live was because of the lack of variety, or something like that. They never listened to those of us screaming at the top of our collective lungs that the menus are horrible, and it takes forever to find a game, especially with friends. It's that simple. And now we have Quake Champions.
There is a distinct difference in gameplay between Overwatch and other shooters like Doom and Titanfall 2; Overwatch feels like you are moving a piece around a board, setting it up for "special attacks", almost like a MOBA in first-person view. If Wuake Champions doesn't suffer from this, it'll be a great Quake game.
Also note that different character classes and "personalities" were planned from Q3A but mostly scrapped.
How did gameplay get worse since Quake I, Expert mod? It was nearly twenty years ago.
There's a reason Quake was popular for so long and why Quake Live was popular after that. Just stick with the basics and add the things that weren't possible back then. Don't try to conform it to Overwatch or whatever the latest game is. You're not going to dethrone CSGO and Overwatch by trying to copy them and just naming it "Quake".