I used to have an Amex card because of Costco's exclusivity deal with them. I only used it to shop at Costco because many other places didn't accept Amex and my daily driver card has better benefits. I didn't feel like applying for another credit card when the Costco deal ended, so it just ended up being turned into a Citi Visa that I pretty much never use.
I think you can still use something of a hack to shop at Costco and rack up AmEx rewards. You can purchase gift cards online with pretty much any credit card and then use the gift cards in the warehouse.
A co-worker did that with his rewards Visa for a long time when AmEx was the only credit card accepted in Costco warehouses.
It's always a bit disconcerting to find out that a decision I thought I made independently is actually part of some larger overall trend. This happens a lot to me.
For a decade before last year, I used an Amex card exclusively. Then I switched to a Sapphire card for the great signing bonus and better rewards. (It's also metal, and as much as I'd like to pretend that doesn't sway me, it does.) Now I find out that this is a "thing" and that I'm just another part of the overall trend.
Oh well. If Amex successfully counters this move, I'll happily return. Their customer service has been spectacular the few times I needed them.
I generally keep at least one miles/points-earning card around, because every place I've lived for the past half-decade has allowed me to pay my rent with a credit card (I'm going to spend that money anyway, why not put it on the card and pay it off the next day so I get something out of it?).
None of the places I've lived have accepted American Express, so all branded/points-earning Amex cards are basically useless to me.
I used to live in a place where my rent -- for a nice apartment -- was about $1k/month. That's 12,000 points a year from putting rent on the card, and there are airlines where that's right around the lower bound of redeeming a flight.
If your rent is higher than that, of course, it becomes a better deal.
The way this all works is the merchant pays a fee to process you CC and the bank splits that fee with you. Gas stations are somewhat smart about this in that they charge you more when using a card since they're paying more for the transaction. However, it's annoying to consumers to charge a higher price depending on payment method. Not sure why gas stations are the only ones getting away with it.
Strange, every apartment I've lived in required checks or ACH. One missed payment and they require a cashier's check for that month + the next month. They also required a cashiers check for the deposit.
What sorts of places have you lived in? I've lived in eight different places since I moved out of my dad's house, and only one has allowed me to play with credit card (with an exorbitant fee)
I currently live in the SF Bay area, but prior to that I was living in good old Lawrence, Kansas, which is not exactly a hotbed of futuristic Silicon-Valley-only tech, and my apartment there allowed me to use a credit card.
Yeah, I know. But something inside me feels "tricked" when the one independent thing I did is "really" part of a herd changing direction.
I quit smoking a little over a year ago. Switched to vaping. Apparently 2016 was the year that everybody did that. I thought I was just making the choice to live a little healthier, but it turns out the invisible hand of Trendy Stuff swept me up. :)
It happens in science and in my field (infosec) too. Two researchers will independently come up with the same idea. You just have similar information to everyone else.
I've been finding Fewer and fewer places that accept Amex. Sometimes when you hand over an Amex they'll give you a look since you're costing them money. If hey really want to compete they need to lower their merchant rates.
That's kind of a dilemma for them, though. They have been very successful up until now by distinguishing themselves from all the other cards with extra perks and a premium level of service. To pay for those perks and that service, they charge more on the merchant end, with an implied value that their members spend more and are worth courting.
Now that this trend is shifting, merchants aren't seeing the value in accepting an expensive Amex card, and are deciding to go without. But Amex still needs something to separate them from the rest of the pack, lest they become just another commodity card. Once that happens (and the merchant network is slow to adapt), users may just switch to the Visa or MasterCard they're already carrying and forget about Amex altogether.
Here in Australia it's probably 50/50 that any given merchant will accept Amex or Diners, and of those that do, surcharging up to around 3% (though I've seen up to 7% before!) for Amex is quite common, particularly at small businesses.
OTOH, I think small businesses using Square has actually made it a lot less of a problem. The business just takes everything without having to make a decision about it.
>“I don’t think it would be American Express,” one diner said. “I feel like that would be braggy, like I’m trying to prove I’m a big shot.”
>Others nodded in agreement. “I’d probably use this,” said another, pulling out a blue-tinged credit card. “An Amex says you’re rich, but this says you’re interesting.”
Where did they find these people? When did using the CSR become a statement? Everyone I know got it for the free money, and uses whatever card gets the most points for whatever purchase.
I think the real test will be how many people pay the renewal fee. You can get 2% cards for cheaper/free so in all but the most frequent travelers keeping it for a second year is more about the status symbol than the benefits.
Freedom Unlimited + Reserve nets 2.25% cash back on everything and 4.5% on travel and dining, and the annual fee nets out to $150 once you take the travel credit into account. Used properly, it's probably the most rewarding card/combo out there.
I've been using Fidelity's 2% back AmEx since forever. I was happy when they changed it to Visa and kept the same rate. But for that extra .25% I might have to switch.
Edit: reading more, it looks like that rate is only for purchasing travel through their site. Not worth it.
It is, yes, only when used for travel via their portal. Totally possible it's not worth it for you, but I certainly get by :) Being able to redeem as 2.25% cash if I want or 1.5X as airline miles is a ton of flexibility. Means if I want to fly Korean First to Asia, its 80K miles one-way. If I find a cheap flight, it's often better to redeem as cash. I fly a lot though.
The usual cash-back card I point people to is the Citi Double Cash 2% flat with no annual fee -- didn't realize the Fidelity went Visa!
Yep, double cash for most things, chase sapphire for travel and food things. The double cash gets stolen every couple of months, tons of skimmers while traveling or in gas station pumps. I even had someone steal a new card from my mailbox at an apartment complex and use it to get $60 worth of McDonalds then a few hundred worth of Diesel jeans. It got flagged for the McDonalds (I almost never eat fast food), I got alerted via text, and had it cancelled + a new card overnighted to me. My most recent compromise was a $0.15 charge in Capetown followed by half a dozen transactions with TopHatter which appears to be a sleazy auction site for dollar-store quality crap and not-so-hot fraud detection. I do hate that they must read the script to me each and every time it gets compromised, since it's so routine for me at this point...it's like being forced to listen to an Indian person (no offense, but their call centers / call center subcontractors are there) read you the EULA for software. It'd be nice if they saw that since you've already had your card stolen half a dozen times in the past year and a half, they can skip the formalities.
I have my cards email me every transaction so that I can spot these events quickly. Ironically, after I set that up, my number hasn't been stolen. It had been stolen 4 times previously. My favorite was when the fraud agent asked me, "Did you purchase 150 lbs of concrete in Mexico yesterday?" Just after he had verified I was traveling somewhere else.
I get push notifications from the Chase app every time my card is used. Just last night I caught a fradulent transaction that way...the merchant name was "ONLINE SHOP ORDER", which was interesting since it that name is seemingly a merchant account set up explicitly to mask fraudulent transactions. Having push notifications is also a great way to remember to cancel unused recurring subscriptions.
I'm always super impressed with the speed that the notifications come through when I'm checking out somewhere. I'll get a notification on my phone over a flaky 4G connection before the CC reader pops up the 'Approved' screen. Lot of computers talking to each other to make that happen...
Similary when my card was canceled last night after the fradulent transaction I got a notification before I even got off the phone with the fraud agent that the replacement cars number had been added to my Apple Pay. Pretty cool!
Throw in a regular Freedom and an Ink Cash, gift cards, etc. and you can do even better, though at some point keeping track of it all starts having its own cost.
So if you earn 1.5 UR per dollar with the Freedom Unlimited then use their Combine Points feature to move it to the Sapphire Reserve's UR balance, each one becomes worth 1.5c towards travel, netting 2.25% :) or transferable to Korean, Singapore, United, BA, Hyatt or a couple of less interesting other options.
There are also PQD waivers for United (sorry :-)) for spend on Chase's co-branded cards. I get a United Club membership anyway so that card works for me. My travel patterns are such that I get decent status on qualifying miles but dollars are iffy.
A CSR returns 4.5% on travel/dining, if you only redeem on travel through the Chase portal, which is not a ripoff based on when I've checked and what I've read (you can get even better effective rates if you transfer miles to airlines strategically).
That means if you spend > $6000/yr on travel/dining (which includes uber/lyft/taxis and hotels/airbnbs besides the usual), you're going to come out ahead of the $150 fee ($450 fee - $300 travel credit) as compared to a no-fee 2% cash back card. The $300 travel credit won't count, so change that $6k to $6.3k. This is well within reason for a lot of white collar folks.
The Amex Platinum Card for Schwab [1] returns 6.25% cash[2] for airfare from airlines & amextravel purchases. If you can get the 400 of value from the travel & Uber credits, you break even with $2400 of spending in the 5x point categories and quickly do better than a no fee 2% cash back card.
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CSR is great if you can redeem through their portal. I mostly travel in Asia and Europe where discount airlines don't seem to be in either chase or Amex's travel portals. The traditional carrier flights they offer are usually 2-3x more expensive than the AirAsias of the world.
Discount airlines typically don't appear in travel portals as one of the ways low-cost carriers try to be low cost is by minimising travel agent commissions.
Does anyone really think owning a credit card makes you interesting? Especially one that is produced for the masses? (at least the ones who can afford the $ amount for it....)
Almost every single friend/acquaintance I know has _that_ card and no one thinks each other is more interesting because of it. It was essentially for the 100,000 points (+ travel perks)
I found that part of the article so amusing that I was about to share it with some friends, and then I started to wonder if I was making myself part of some kind of viral marketing ploy.
I actually hate that it's made of thicker metal. When I use it I feel like I look like the exact kind of idiot the article mentions, who thinks that their card being "clunk"ier makes them look more impressive.
Random people have commented on my Chase Saphire card, complimenting the weight, joking about how 'rich' I must obviously be.
It's just a thick card because it was one of the original pin & chips. It's old. The annual fee is $90. That's less than most people pay per month for cable TV.
I'm not sure why it gets so many looks, but I will admit most people just carry bank cards in this area.
The Sapphire Reserve isn't their first card to be physically made of metal.
The first one was the Sapphire Preferred, which is presumably what the person you replied to was talking about; the Sapphire Preferred appears to have a $95 annual fee (compared to $450 on the Sapphire Reserve), lower minimum limit, and lower requirements for approval.
Although the Preferred also has an automatic $300 travel credit which covers less than a week of my average expenses over the course of a year. When I canceled my Preferred in favor of the Reserve I went through the most half-hearted workout routine from Chase I ever had in my life. The rep fully understood there was absolutely no reason for me to keep the Preferred card but still had to go through the motions of offering me a cheaper annual rate etc.
Chip and pin has been a standard and pretty thin in the rest of the world before it came to the us. You were pretty late to the game, so its not like this is an early artifact with major leaps since
I have a European chip and pin card. The area around the contacts above the chip has a slight, but noticeable, bulge. I have a newer American chip and pin card. It's thicker but the card is perfectly flat. They also did away with the bump letters and numbers.
It's a NYT shtick. It's not that difficult to find a person that speaks like that, and NYT finds that person for their articles. Since getting a subscription, I've also been turned off by the tone of their reporting on political articles, where they border on sarcasm without actually saying anything negative.
I can't recall a single time where I or anyone I was with or near had ever commented on, thought anything of, or even really noticed what card somebody else was using to pay for food with.
I get this with my Navy Federal card. I dont have any "prestige" cards but I'd be surprised if anyone got more attention for them than I get for my standard issue NF debit.
I've noticed this too. I'm not actually in the military, but my grandfather was a doctor in the Navy and apparently we've been (literally) grandfathered in for perpetuity. The card has raised eyebrows in places I would not have imagined it would be noticed.
In my yuppie group of friends, a CSR is a pretty strong wealth signal. we're probably just overly competitive and shallow, but some people definitely pay attention
I feel people are a bit out of touch with how easy it is to get these "exclusive" credit cards if you just have a good credit score. The income is helpful but unnecessary for essentially everything but a Centurion.
Exactly. Amex get their income from a cut on purchases, and that cut is larger than any other provider. They then take this money and spend it on advertising to try and convince stupid people they are joining some exclusive "club".
The new Amex cash card is pretty solid with 6% back on groceries and 3% back on gas and department stores (and 10% on restaurants for 6 months), but those aren't exactly prestige categories. I use that for everyday spending and the sapphire card for travel.
I've been rocking the same combo (Amex Blue Cash Preferred + Chase Sapphire Reserve) for a while now and I still marvel at how they compliment one another for max rewards across Groceries/Gas + Travel/Dining. The only category I have left would be Amazon really but I still buy 500 dollar Amazon gift cards at supermarkets rather get the Amazon store card to get total rewards coverage for my needs.
This article doesn't say anything about using your card abroad or how widely accepted Amex is. I have an Amex and use it for all my subscriptions, and spending when I'm in the US. In the rare chance that I can't use Amex, I have capital one venture.
When I use Amex, almost universally people comment that my card looks cool and take it and play with it. But whenever I recommend Amex to someone, it is always met with "but I won't be able to use it everywhere", generally they are talking about the US, but the same sentiment applies abroad also.
Its true, when I am outside the US, I can't use Amex, I have to use my Venture card. How much of the drop can be attributed to the fact that now say in a country like Brazil, even people selling packs of gum from mobile tables accept MC and Visa? How many more millennials travel abroad? How many want to use the same card in whatever country the find themselves in and not have to worry?
Barclays is quietly working that segment of the market. They are (or were last I checked) the only issuer providing cards to people in the US which actually support chip and PIN (instead of only doing chip and signature).
Why is the PIN so important? It only protects a very narrow scenario: your card has been physically stolen, you haven't noticed yet, and the thieves try to use it at a physical location which verifies the chip (some places still let you swipe...). The chip itself protects against cloning and if you've notified the issuer that the card is lost/stolen they'll cancel the card number so it will become worthless.
They are trying to improve this in France. I've met quite a few shops who started to accept amex because Amex has started offering very low transaction fees for shops with small volume.
I think it's actually smart, they're not likely to earn much money from those shops anyway and it's a good way to increase their footprint (before that they were only accepted in department stores and supermarkets basically).
In Brazil, I've only found a few places that don't take American Express. Even places that don't show the logo, or they don't know if they do/do not, have accepted it. I did find a few places that only took local cards or foreign debit cards, but not many.
I keep two credit cards, the primary being an Amex. I do that because I like Amex's buyer protection, and their support has been between acceptable and impressive the few times I've had to deal with them. I keep a backup for when I can't use the Amex, similar to the above poster.
I do find it slightly annoying that I have to have a backup, but it's fairly rare that I need it, and the tradeoff is worth it for me.
I find it strange people are down voting what seems like an honest question about a pretty utilitarian matter.
I have yet to find an issuer on Visa/MC that can even remotely touch Amex's customer service.
I've tried. Everyone else is simply anti-consumer, to the point of being nearly fraudulent. Amex on the other hand generally "just works" how you would expect when something comes up or when you need to do something.
I agree - if there were never any problems ever, who cares. Go with the cheapest zero fee Visa and be happy.
The experiences I've had recently with multiple Visa issuers have led me to cancel those cards, and now I keep exactly one Amex as my primary, and a backup Visa just in case it's not accepted somewhere. I tend to avoid those businesses if possible.
Amex is so far and away better on their customer protection/service it's not even really a competition. They are playing a different ballgame.
Ignoring chargebacks, anti-consumer practices to collect additional fees, etc. - just something as simple as losing a credit card and needing a replacement sent is eye opening. A typical Visa/MC (even a so called premium card) will take a week. If you're lucky. Good luck if you happen to be traveling, have fun dealing with a 90 minute phone call involving an escalation to a manager. Amex will overnight you a new card to a random third world country with a 5 minute phone call.
It's stuff like that which keeps me firmly in the Amex fold. If/when they start screwing that part of their offering up, I'll switch instantly. So far their competition has a long way to come. The last two credit cards I've signed up for (for promotions) I've canceled within 60 days due to horrific anti-consumer - and in my opinion - entirely fraudulent business practices. I refuse to do business with folks who actively are trying to rip me off.
For people who are willing to jump through hoops and make a credit card issuer's problem theirs - amex is not the choice for you. For folks who think their bank should work on their behalf and not be something I have to set a calendar reminder for in order to remember stuff? Amex is the choice.
I actually get angry thinking of my last Visa experience (Google Credit) - it was so anti-consumer I can't even believe it's legal.
> A typical Visa/MC (even a so called premium card) will take a week. If you're lucky. Good luck if you happen to be traveling, have fun dealing with a 90 minute phone call involving an escalation to a manager. Amex will overnight you a new card to a random third world country with a 5 minute phone call.
Counterpoint: I've had a Citi Premier Mastercard since 2008 and have lost it several times over that period. Every single time I call the conversation is sub-5 minutes and I ALWAYS have a new card in hand within 24 hours, including the time my wallet was stolen in London.
Similarly, for Amex in the UK: you can use your card abroad, but they charge you 3% (!) on top of their own exchange rate - even for USD transactions.
What's worse - if your foreign transaction is in any other currency than USD, they convert twice: once from the original currency into USD, and then again from USD into GBP. They only charge you 3% once, but you do suffer from their internal, presumably self-serving exchange rates twice.
This is in an environment where there are many UK credit cards offering fee-free foreign transactions at the "true" (no spread) exchange rate, and many more offering true exchange rate + less than 1%.
The Amex offering is laughably poor in comparison.
The best deal I've found for international use is Schwab. I forget the purchasing terms, but for ATM access they don't charge a currency conversion fee, and they even reimburse you the mandatory 1% fee.
This is relevant to a decision I made today. I was deciding which travel card to get between the amex platinum and the chase sapphire reserve, and I went with the sapphire reserve. I felt the amex's perks were catered more towards business travelers doing expensive things, while the chase card was more focused on people who travel for fun. However, I do not understand why people think the sapphire reserve is not a snobbish card like amex: it has a $450 a year fee, which is almost as much as the amex platinum's $550 fee, is ~metal~, and is trying to capture the same group of people.
$450 yearly fee with $300 travel credit. This includes Uber/Lyft and public transportation. It's basically $150/yr, unless you don't use any of the $300 travel credit.
True, but you can't say that it doesn't have a $450 fee, the amex has $200 for travel expenses and $200 for uber but that doesn't mean it has a $150 fee either. The fee is a large upfront cost for most people.
As an economy traveller, I didn't realize how much international trips were if I used a lounge for hops. The CSR comes with free access to a large number of airport lounges, which was a benefit I was surprised I used.
Amex lounge benefits are now the same as Chase, both offer a Priority Pass Select, and now AFAIK offer the same number of guests. Amex also offers access to Amex Centurion lounges which are among the better domestic lounges.
You can still get into a Delta lounge as an Amex cardholder, but Delta has been tightening up its lounge access generally for a while. The biggest change was introducing two-tier membership; Amex cardholders, and even Delta's own top-level frequent flyers, now only get the base lounge membership (or equivalent). This shows up in things like being charged $29/person to bring guests with you, where previously you got two guests for free.
Honestly they're really only valuable if your home airport has a Centurion lounge. As much as I love Centurion lounges (and have access to them), I find myself in PP far more frequently.
Yeah, and if they're in the terminal you frequent too >.< At SFO, only T-I/T-3 (where the Centurion is) and T1-/T2 are connected airside. That said, I used to route everywhere via DFW so I could break the journey up and chill at the D17 lounge.
So far, the Priority Pass card I got with my CSR has been completely useless. In San Francisco I was refused entry at the partner lounge because it was at capacity and Priority Pass holders are clearly the lowest concern; at the Reykjavik stopover there was no partner lounge at all; and in Paris the lounge was a 10 minute walk + 1 security checkpoint away from my gate.
I looked it up, and seems the lounge in SFO is the KLM/AF one. Which is weird because I've been in there at a "peak" time (I was on the daily KLM to AMS) and it didn't seem particularly crowded.
Though in general lounge benefits -- unless you're getting a dedicated lounge operated by the program giving you access -- are not something worth going for. Back when I had status on American Airlines, I and many other people learned how worthless the alliance-partner lounge benefits can be: in theory, as an AA Executive Platinum, I'd have access to a rather nice British Airways lounge when connecting to an AA transatlantic flight in Philadelphia, but BA's policy was basically "all times are peak times (so we can turn you away), if there's anyone in here it's at capacity (so we can turn you away), and if there's nobody in here we'll close (so we can turn you away)".
I looked at the Priority Pass offering and did sign up but it didn't seem very useful. I already have United Club (and, by extension, Star Alliance--which I've never had trouble getting access to) and Priority Pass doesn't really buy me anything.
The Amex one is $550 - $200 for Uber - $200 in airline incidentals which often includes more than you think, check FlyerTalk. Net fee is the same if you do the legwork on Amex.
at one point you could buy delta gift cards and have it covered under the $200 airline incidental fee. Neeting you 200 off a flight of your choice for `free`.
Delta was always hard because they didn't sell gift cards online -- only at the airport! As far as I know that still works, but as always with this stuff, check the thread on FlyerTalk. United and American sell gift cards online ^_^
This article focuses on the emotional attachment to a card, but that's not the driver. It just comes out that way. I spend a lot of time on FlyerTalk where the decline of Amex has been discussed over and over. There were mistakes made on the revenue side, and on the rewards side. Three events basically tilted the entire balance away from Amex:
1. Failed negotiation with CostCo and losing the CostCo credit business.
2. The United and Continental merger that signed the death of the United / Amex relationship as all of that credit business moved to Chase and United was removed as a redemption partner, which was the number one membership rewards partner by a long-shot.
3. The loss of JetBlue as a partner that demotivated Amex in the affluent NYC credit theatre.
There were many other mistakes made, but those three had a compounding effect on Amex's negotiating leverage to earn transactions, carry cards, and to offer valuable rewards that drive member sentiment.
That's it. Three moves, each on their own survivable, but in concert essentially destroyed a well-balanced equation.
The question is, how will they catapult out of this?
$80 / year is a terrible credit card reward compared to almost all other credit cards. It would have to be free Amazon Prime + 5% back on all Amazon purchases + $500 sign up bonus.
True, but I was searching for something comparable to the Costco deal they used to have. That perk was also pretty cheap (Isn't Costco membership in the same ballpark?)
But yeah, throw some extra points/cash back in there as well. I'd go for that in a heartbeat, and so would a lot of the demographic they're currently losing.
If I'm not mistaken, the Costco deal was a free membership and it was the only CC Costco would accept - any other payment had to be via debit card. That bit of arm-twisting was valuable.
The Chase Amazon card already gives you 5% back at Amazon Prime members with no annual fee. A card offering that plus Prime would almost certainly have an annual fee and the $500 bonus would simply be setting the card issuer up for massive turnover.
I'm not saying that's the only perk. The parent comment was describing all the relationships Amex lost that combined to hurt their membership base. The Costco one could be replaced with a similar setup through Amazon.
It would have to provide a lot more than that. I get several hundred dollars per year of value from the sign up bonus + recurring rewards on my Chase card, enough that I'm willing to eat the $450/year fee. I essentially fly for free all year because of the points. $99/year in benefits isn't enough to get me to switch.
Amex had that with Costco, until they didn't. I don't know when the Chase agreement expires, but when it does, Amex could learn from their previous losses and aggressively steal that business away from Chase.
The Synchrony Bank store card is hands-down the shittiest card product I've ever used from any bank. I signed up for it and they screwed up my ACH multiple times, then closed my account, because they were running auto-debit ACH from a different address than command-debit ACH, and had no one who would explain this. (They bought something formerly used by Walmart, so when I saw a large Walmart debit I blocked it, as I never use my checking account there...)
In Q4 2016 (I think) DiscoverIT was 5% on Amazon purchases, which is equally good, but then the Chase Prime Visa also became 5%, so there's no advantage to the Synchrony card whatsoever.
They should be pushing their Blue Cash Preferred Card. For $75 a year, you get 6% cash back on groceries and 3% back on gas. You also get 1% on everything else. Right now it is just my husband and I and we easily get more than $75 in rewards. I can only imagine if you add kids to the mix. 6% is a huge amount of money when talking about groceries. We also use the AmEx to purchase anything that is worth having a warranty for because the AmEx extends the manufacturer's warranty.
The Blue Cash Preferred is at a $95 annual fee right now.
I have the original Blue Cash, that I've refused to trade in because the new versions are no where close. The rules are a little wonky... 1% cash back on groceries, gas, and drug stores until you spend $6500, then 5% back after that. Other purchases are .5% / 1%. All with no annual fee.
The 6% cash back from grocery stores is nice. You can buy Amazon (and many other) gift cards at my grocery store and they all result in 6% back as well.
One thing that bothers me is AMEX says you don't get the cash back if you use a digital wallet. So, does that mean Apple Pay? Why would they add that restriction?
Chase's marketing team hit it out of the park with the Sapphire Preferred (and now Reserve.)
This is going to sound stupid, but the Preferred/Reserve lines are fun to use. They have a metal core which makes the card feel heavy. Cashiers would always comment on the card's weight. It feels satisfying when you drop it on the table at a restaurant. The perks aren't the best in the industry, but they're good enough, and the incredible amount of points you got when you switched over lowered the barrier to entry enough to make the move.
Without a doubt it's the "coolest" card in my wallet, and probably will be until I get an Amex Black (yeah, right.)
A card itself is a commodity item. Why is it tied to the credit agreement? Why does this factor in at all? Why can you not make your own card + register the key of the chip inside the card with the credit provider?
This is just me: I use whatever card I get the most points/benefits from for whatever scenario (travel, food, gas, groceries etc.). I couldn't care less what people think of me when I pull out my card.
It just so happens Chase has been pushing out cards that benefits my lifestyle the most.
What's the point of an Amex or Sapphire compared to a regular VISA or mastercard?
Disclaimer: I am european, Amex doesn't exist here and you can't pay anything anywhere with that. Never heard about Sapphire before today. Maybe you guys don't have VISA and mastercard on your side of the Atlantic?
Amex vs Visa/MC - Amex had historically good flight/miles tie-ins (not as good these days), purchase coverage (returns, car insurance, etc), and concierge service for higher level cards. Odd as it sounds, good reporting on billing, and a requirement to pay off at the end of each month, made it appealing to some businesses for corporate credit cards.
Think of Amex like the iPhone/iOS. Only Apple makes it, they deliver the hardware and the software.
Visa/MC are Android. Samsung (Chase), LG (Citi), HTC (BofA) are the hardware makers (card issuers) but they're all delivering the same Android (Visa/MC)
Amex exists in Europe. Maybe not in your country (which you probably mean by "here."). Which country is it?
Either way, I get very good customer support from American Express. Also way higher credit limit and points. My other card is a Citibank card. I never use it because I despise citibank.
Visa and Mastercard are the two biggest card associations in the US (American Express is another card association).
Credit cards are usually issued by a card issuer (bank) and are co-branded with one of the card associations. For example, the Sapphire card is a particular credit card issued by Chase Bank, but is a Visa card.
American Express (Amex) is a little bit weird in that they act as both the issuer and the association for many of their cards. (They are less widely accepted than Visa or Mastercard).
See this American guide to choosing a credit card[1]. Factors that people consider include interest rate, amount of signing bonus, rewards (such as a percentage cash back on each purchase or a percentage of frequent flyer miles on each purchase), yearly fee to use the card, and other services that come with membership such as warranty protection, concierge, discounts, and reserved tickets for events.
What cards are available to a person depends highly on their credit history and income.
In the US, debit cards are ATM cards tied to a bank account that can also be used at a merchant; when the merchant charges the card, money is deducted directly from the bank account. Debit cards usually have no rewards or bonuses associated with them.
Credit cards, on the other hand, are connected to a revolving line of credit. When a merchant charges the card, the issuer is essentially loaning the amount of the charge to the cardholder. (With most credit cards, interest only starts accruing a month after the charge; so people who pay their credit card bills in full are not paying interest.)
In the US, credit cards were introduced as a convenient alternative to checks or cash before debit cards existed. Because of cultural momentum, rewards, and fraud protection, they are as widely used as debit cards, if not more so.
To throw in a bit of confusion, most US debit cards can also be run on credit card networks (mostly Visa or Mastercard, though when I worked as a cashier I saw a few debit cards that used Discover or Amex). The cash is still directly debited from your bank account, but that lets you use the card at places that do accept credit cards but don't belong to any of the dozen different debit networks (STAR, Pulse, CO-OP, etc.). This is also why most US-based online shops prefer credit cards since it's assumed that even if you don't have an actual credit card you have a debit card that can be run as one.
Amex Platinum is a charge card, you must pay them [for the most part] within 30 days, which is quite different from most American credit cards. Not a debit card, but close, outside of pay-over-time benefits.
It details the efforts of someone who managed to get a Sapphire Reserve card after dressing up as a Sapphire Reserve card for Halloween and sending a photo of it to Chase:
> “I’m kind of a credit-card—maybe junkie is not the right word—but I’m a credit-card enthusiast,” says Mary Xu, a San Francisco cybersecurity manager. In pursuit of points, she spends more than $1,000 a year on annual fees for high-end cards.
> She was so disappointed to be rejected for the Sapphire Reserve last October that she spent hours constructing a costume of the card out of cardboard. She sent the bank a photo of herself dressed up, hoping for a second chance. She was approved about three months later.
I don't think smart wealthy people pay a dime in service fees. I gave the privilege of collecting transaction fees on my purchases to HSBC, who charges me nothing. It has all the usual premium card perks, though not the latest silly ones. I'll buy my own Uber credits.
I suppose it depends on your definition of "silly" but perks like Amex's Centurion lounges, their concierge program, hotel privileges and (of course) points all outweigh the annual fee for me.
Smart people wouldn't pay the equivalent of a 2% sales tax to a private corporation in exchange for gimmicks.
The best part is that they realized you can keep the people from finding out that they are being royally ripped off by giving every single 30 card toting person the special feeling that they are the one getting back more than they put in.
Cash itself isn't cost-free for businesses. There's the extra time it takes to count change for customers, the mistakes cashiers make when counting change, there's the time it takes to count the register at the end of a shift, the cost of a safe to hold cash on-site, the risk of counterfeit bills (when I cashiered we'd check $50s and $100s but not $20s and lower since it would take too long), and the cost of transporting the cash to the bank (either in the cost of an armored car or the risk of getting robbed on the way to the bank (which happened at another location while I was cashiering, after that they switched to an armored car)).
Credit card processing fees in the EU are legally capped at <.3%
What you are talking about may be well be true but let's be very clear here that transaction fees above that number are ripoff for gimmicks, not the equivalent of what cash handling would cost.
If they are wealthy then they likely do not care much about service fees. Meanwhile, smart thrifty people are busy churning credit card bonuses and earning tens of thousands of dollars of free travel subsidized by people like you.
That response is uncalled for. It takes a minimal time debt to secure your financial future and put the "game" in your favor- literally for the cost of making yourself abrest of the rules
You'd be amazed at the very employed folks that spend time each week learning about credit cards and taking advantage of perks, on top of other things that will allow them to live a lifestyle they want. As a bonus, they get a happy boost when they get a good deal.
This is just paying attention to how you spend your money and being informed about the choices you make. If you are going to get a credit card, you might as well both know what you are getting into and get the best thing for you that you can. Kinda like any other loan contract (after all, credit cards are a short-term loan).
I guarantee you lots of smart wealthy people pay plenty of service fees. The dumb thing is not getting a card like the CSR, which easily pays for itself with the signup bonus alone.
I paid for a $50 Costco membership last year and, by using the credit card, got my annual refund check this year of over $400. Didn't pay a penny of interest. Sure seems like a reasonable deal to me.
I don't think smart wealthy people pay a dime in service fees.
I suppose it depends on definitions.
I like to think I'm smart, but I'm unsure whether I'd meet your definition of wealthy. However, I do have experience of widely disparate income brackets. Growing up, and during my first few years on my own as an adult, I've had experience of living at or below the poverty line. Now, I'm above the 95th percentile for income in the US.
And the single biggest difference is in how I view tradeoffs of time/effort versus money. For example, I pay my utility bills online with a credit card, and the company charges me a "convenience fee" to do that. When I was younger, I had to count every penny in order to be sure I could make ends meet. Now? Avoiding the fee would be a net loss. I can estimate how many minutes of time it would take me to go dig out my checkbook, write a check, put it in an envelope, find a stamp, go to a mailbox and drop it in. And I can work out, given my salary, how much those minutes are worth: they're worth more than the "convenience fee".
The same is true of many of the "service fees" you're deriding here. I've been in a position where avoiding the fees was of extreme importance, but now I'm in a position where avoiding the fees is literally a money-losing proposition in many cases. The result is that I simply don't bother below a certain dollar amount (and that dollar amount would frighten my younger self).
And to be honest, it's a guilty pleasure to not care about those fees. When I was younger, I didn't realize what a sense of freedom there was in being able to just not care about a few dollars here and there.
While by no means is this an apples to apples comparison, but for me this debate has always felt like PC/Mac vs Unix/Linux computers. Yes, the latter may seem/feel cooler, but there is far more support with the former platforms and to me that's always been the motivating factor.
(1) Lost US Airways lounge access from the Amex platinum (merger).
(2) Lost Continental as a transfer partner for MR (merger).
(3) Lost Continental lounge access from the Amex platinum (merger).
(4) Lost Delta lounge guest access.
(5) Saw serious devaluations in Aeroplan for MR.
(6) Saw serious devaluations in Delta for MR (no more 50% transfer bonuses).
(7) Saw serious devaluations in BA for MR (transfer 1:1 with 50% bonuses to 1:0.8 with occasional bonuses).
(8) No more points lending (you used to be able to transfer more than you had if you earned them back within a year, otherwise they'd bill you).
(9) Lost JetBlue co-brand card.
(10) Lost Costco co-brand card.
(11) Saw Plenti flop, and I haven't really heard much of Bluebird.
A few years ago, you needed 120,000 Amex points for a first-class round-the-world flight with no fuel surcharges and 2 stopovers in addition to your destination. That price has pretty much doubled in points and gone up 100x in cash. It's just not as rewarding as it used to be.
On the other hand, Chase jumped in, offered lower-fee cards ($95 for Preferred vs $175 for Amex PRG) with more valuable transfer partners -- especially before the United devaluation -- and large signup bonuses. They were friendlier, less stodgy and offered a better value proposition overall in 2011 with the Sapphire Preferred. Then they upped the stakes with the Reserve.
also, i remember amex had exclusive deals with a few ultra high end retailers, Nieman Marcus, for one, and those are out--eg, so up until about 10 years ago, that was the only credit card accepted at NM.
Fair question, actually. They're rather similar, but if you're not flying neither is probably right. If you want a daily driver and no interest in travel rewards, check out the Citi Double Cash. 2% flat cash back on everything, no annual fee, but watch the forex fees -- not that you'll pay them often if you don't fly :)
My current setup is the Chase Amazon card for everything Amazon, Amex Blue cash back card for everything else, and a CapOne Venture card for merchants who do not take Amex.
I don't fly a lot, and cash back is just simpler even though it is not as min/max as getting miles. I use the little bit of Venture redemptions paying for Uber/Lyfts.
I've looked at the higher end paid for cards, but I might only fly 4x year, and they have not really seemed worth it.
Assuming you have the Blue that costs money, then the Amazon cards should be used at restaurants and drug stores for the 2%, but the Amex should be used at gas stations and department stores for the 3% and of course grocery stores at 6%. For the stuff that doesn't fall into those categories though, it's all 1% so either work.
It took some time to find out on Google , but I guess MR stands for Membership Rewards. Unless you're referring to the Mongolian airline, the Dutch travel agency or the Belgian political party using the same abbreviation.
Probably "mileage redemption", as in either exchanging points from the card for frequent-flyer miles to redeem for flights, or directly redeeming the points for flights through whatever interface it provides.
This isn't really a last 5 years thing, but there also used to be something said for there being AMEX offices in major cities, being able to get free travelers' checks, cash personal checks, etc. Those things largely don't matter any longer.
I'm executor for my aunt. Found $800 in travelers' checks that her husband had bought 31 years ago. Advice on AmEx site is to go to a bank that sells travelers' checks. I can only find a few within 25 miles of Los Angeles, none very close to where my aunt lived.
When we traveled to Italy 12 years ago, we took travelers' checks. The local banks would shake their heads and point at the ATM. As you say, getting free travelers' checks don't matter if you can't cash them.
It used to be standard advice to put some travelers' checks in your sock drawer (or wherever) to have some emergency money on hand that wasn't easily stolen. I calculated how much money was lost by having travelers checks for 31 years instead of sitting in a bank and it was about $3000 at 5%. Hard to find in these times but not until recently.
I have a few old ones tucked into my travel folder where I keep spare credit cards, emergency cash, etc. I really need to take them into the bank and cash them one of these days.
Amex flooded their signed-in experience with awful pop-ups: upgrade your card! get a personal loan! It's distracting when, as a user, I'm simply trying to see how much I need to pay.
> I refuse to use Chase anything because of how poorly they treat their lower income customers (staging transactions to maximize overdraft fees, etc.)
Yep, a true pain to explain to someone how pulling that stunt is legal. About the same fun as banks cashing checks in order to maximize overdraft fees.
AMEX also does the Bluebird cards which are pretty nice for poor folks since you can do direct deposit to the card itself and it has no charge refilling at Walmart.
I don't know what the perception is today, but Amex used to be known for outstanding (like, truly outstanding) customer service. I had a regular Amex and then a gold in the mid 2000s and I found that was no longer the case. They also used to stand apart from other credit cards, much more like old-school bankers used to be. When I was using them they started to act more and more like regular credit card companies. There was also an ownership change at some point iirc. I think they just lost their way, and along with it their differentiating value.
I've had nothing but outstanding experiences with American Express customer service, even in the past few years. Miles ahead of what I've experienced with Chase and other issuers.
I don't doubt it. They always treated me well on the phone, but when I needed them to actually fix a problem they fell on their face and thew up their hands like they were powerless. I ended up having to solve it myself which blew the whole point of using them. I may be an outlier.
Amex CS has gotten a lot weaker in the past few years; it got moved overseas.
Closing the actual physical Amex offices also was a big step down (I've been a member since 97).
I would not want to bet on Amex at this point -- losing Costco, competition from Chase, and now Citi pushing to expand their own cards.
I'm surprised there hasn't been a lower-merchant-fees challenger now that everyone has a mobile phone; you could probably do something which presents at POSes as a credit card, handles a bunch of auth back through the customer's own mobile phone connection (but encrypted/authenticated), presenting a time of use credential which is matched by the POS while appearing as a regular credit card. Building something like that which costs the merchant <1%, and maybe which provides customers with a lot more purchasing/receipt info (for company purchasing cards).
There has been no actual benefit to consumers to use Apple Pay.
If Goldman Sachs (or Apple) offered a 5% return to purchases using Apply Pay, I'd use it.
If I could give out purchasing "cards" to all my team which relied on Apple Pay but brought back realtime stats, that'd be a win too (especially if it did things like track capital purchases, warranties, management, etc.)
I think something has changed. I had to do a chargeback recently for a $5 cab ride for which I was charged over $50. In previous years something this small would have been dealt with immediately. Now, I had to speak with someone on the phone and it did not hit final resolution for a few weeks.
It was still an okay experience but not what it used to be.
Amex has two great perks that justifies the cost for me:
- Excellent travel insurance
- 15-20% discount on car rentals with Hertz and Avis, priority service including complimentary upgrades, and no extra fees for super cover
Additionally their fraud detection and customer service is great. If my card is stolen or there are unauthorized transactions, they'll sort it out immediately and get Anne's card in your hands within the day. As a European who travels a lot in Europe and across the Atlantic, there's no other card that offers the same.
Then there's all the rest, VIP access, airport lounges, concierge service etc. Those are nice extras.
I pay everything on my Amex. Some smaller shops don't take Amex, but most places I've been seem to accept it. The few times I have to fall back to a Visa or MC I struggle to recall the pin.
If you decline the car rental company's insurance and charge the rental fee to your Amex, then Amex has a free car rental insurance plan. It's essentially secondary to any other coverage you carry, so if you wreck a rental car and already carry collision insurance, then it hits your coverage first and the Amex plan just pays your deductible.
They've also got an opt-in plan where any time you rent a car with your card they charge you a $25 flat free, and then that buys you coverage that runs primary so you don't have to claim against your own car insurance at all.
Yes, this is what I meant by super cover. Essentially you just rent without any additional coverage and Amex will cover anything not covered by the rental agency's insurance. This saves a good $20/day at least, meaning if you rent cars for just a few weeks per year the fee will be worth it, when considering the discount as well. I've racked up about 7-8 weeks of car rental so far since New Years, and thanks to Amex I saved a bunch of money on it, probably more than the fee.
Another good feature is I've sometimes had to return the cars in different cities, and every time they waived the fee because of the preferred status as a card carrying member. These things add up for sure.
As far as I know, the insurance also works with any agency, so not just Avis and Hertz, so there's money to save even if you go for a more "fun" agency like Sixt, with nicer cars.
Disclaimer: You'll want to verify all this with Amex though, but this is what I've been told and what I've read in the ToS.
That's good to know, thanks! Although I wonder if that's universal, because the definition of truck is probably different in different countries. Care to share more of your experience?
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[ 5.6 ms ] story [ 90.4 ms ] threadA co-worker did that with his rewards Visa for a long time when AmEx was the only credit card accepted in Costco warehouses.
1. https://www.citi.com/credit-cards/credit-card-details/citi.a...
For a decade before last year, I used an Amex card exclusively. Then I switched to a Sapphire card for the great signing bonus and better rewards. (It's also metal, and as much as I'd like to pretend that doesn't sway me, it does.) Now I find out that this is a "thing" and that I'm just another part of the overall trend.
Oh well. If Amex successfully counters this move, I'll happily return. Their customer service has been spectacular the few times I needed them.
None of the places I've lived have accepted American Express, so all branded/points-earning Amex cards are basically useless to me.
If your rent is higher than that, of course, it becomes a better deal.
I quit smoking a little over a year ago. Switched to vaping. Apparently 2016 was the year that everybody did that. I thought I was just making the choice to live a little healthier, but it turns out the invisible hand of Trendy Stuff swept me up. :)
Now that this trend is shifting, merchants aren't seeing the value in accepting an expensive Amex card, and are deciding to go without. But Amex still needs something to separate them from the rest of the pack, lest they become just another commodity card. Once that happens (and the merchant network is slow to adapt), users may just switch to the Visa or MasterCard they're already carrying and forget about Amex altogether.
>Others nodded in agreement. “I’d probably use this,” said another, pulling out a blue-tinged credit card. “An Amex says you’re rich, but this says you’re interesting.”
Where did they find these people? When did using the CSR become a statement? Everyone I know got it for the free money, and uses whatever card gets the most points for whatever purchase.
Edit: reading more, it looks like that rate is only for purchasing travel through their site. Not worth it.
The usual cash-back card I point people to is the Citi Double Cash 2% flat with no annual fee -- didn't realize the Fidelity went Visa!
I'm always super impressed with the speed that the notifications come through when I'm checking out somewhere. I'll get a notification on my phone over a flaky 4G connection before the CC reader pops up the 'Approved' screen. Lot of computers talking to each other to make that happen...
Similary when my card was canceled last night after the fradulent transaction I got a notification before I even got off the phone with the fraud agent that the replacement cars number had been added to my Apple Pay. Pretty cool!
I've toyed with other cards that give higher rates, but those that I've looked at are always for restricted categories.
5X rotating bonus categories on Freedom.
5X airfare on Amex Platinum.
3X travel and dining on Sapphire Reserve.
1.5X non-bonusable spend on Freedom Unlimited.
I haven't averaged my return but its, uh, high :) I feel better about the time spent since its sort of a hobby.
That means if you spend > $6000/yr on travel/dining (which includes uber/lyft/taxis and hotels/airbnbs besides the usual), you're going to come out ahead of the $150 fee ($450 fee - $300 travel credit) as compared to a no-fee 2% cash back card. The $300 travel credit won't count, so change that $6k to $6.3k. This is well within reason for a lot of white collar folks.
---
CSR is great if you can redeem through their portal. I mostly travel in Asia and Europe where discount airlines don't seem to be in either chase or Amex's travel portals. The traditional carrier flights they offer are usually 2-3x more expensive than the AirAsias of the world.
1: http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/investing/accounts_produ...
2: 1 MR = 1.25 cents deposited in Schwab account
Does anyone really think owning a credit card makes you interesting? Especially one that is produced for the masses? (at least the ones who can afford the $ amount for it....)
Almost every single friend/acquaintance I know has _that_ card and no one thinks each other is more interesting because of it. It was essentially for the 100,000 points (+ travel perks)
I'm ashamed of myself now.
It's just a thick card because it was one of the original pin & chips. It's old. The annual fee is $90. That's less than most people pay per month for cable TV.
I'm not sure why it gets so many looks, but I will admit most people just carry bank cards in this area.
The first one was the Sapphire Preferred, which is presumably what the person you replied to was talking about; the Sapphire Preferred appears to have a $95 annual fee (compared to $450 on the Sapphire Reserve), lower minimum limit, and lower requirements for approval.
Plus, in my experience, most of my friends have it, so it's kind of like a... "ooh you got one too?" social experience.
(As far what the card is? No one cares.)
Fun fact, Silian Rail is actually Garamond Classico SC if you want the full effect.
The non-fee version is only 3% at restaurants.
Yes, just like this advertisement seems to have been hidden and camouflaged as a New York Times article...
When I use Amex, almost universally people comment that my card looks cool and take it and play with it. But whenever I recommend Amex to someone, it is always met with "but I won't be able to use it everywhere", generally they are talking about the US, but the same sentiment applies abroad also.
Its true, when I am outside the US, I can't use Amex, I have to use my Venture card. How much of the drop can be attributed to the fact that now say in a country like Brazil, even people selling packs of gum from mobile tables accept MC and Visa? How many more millennials travel abroad? How many want to use the same card in whatever country the find themselves in and not have to worry?
PIN: Insert card, 1234, enter.
Phone: Insert card, wait for notification, unlock phone, select notification, confirm purchase, wait for confirmation to get back.
Plus, if you're somewhere without cell reception or your phone battery is dead, what do you do?
https://www.firsttechfed.com/credit_cards/choice_rewards
I think it's actually smart, they're not likely to earn much money from those shops anyway and it's a good way to increase their footprint (before that they were only accepted in department stores and supermarkets basically).
Like, why? Ill give up all my rewards to have an anxiety free payment experience.
In the maybe 5% of cases where Amex isn't accepted, this is the experience:
Me: hands over Amex Vendor: Oh sorry, we don't take Amex. Me: hands over Chase visa Vendor: Thanks!
Edit: this is really a question better answered with words than a downvote.
"A decent card works 100% with all purchase categories for rewards. Otherwise what's the point?"
I do find it slightly annoying that I have to have a backup, but it's fairly rare that I need it, and the tradeoff is worth it for me.
I find it strange people are down voting what seems like an honest question about a pretty utilitarian matter.
I've tried. Everyone else is simply anti-consumer, to the point of being nearly fraudulent. Amex on the other hand generally "just works" how you would expect when something comes up or when you need to do something.
I agree - if there were never any problems ever, who cares. Go with the cheapest zero fee Visa and be happy.
The experiences I've had recently with multiple Visa issuers have led me to cancel those cards, and now I keep exactly one Amex as my primary, and a backup Visa just in case it's not accepted somewhere. I tend to avoid those businesses if possible.
Amex is so far and away better on their customer protection/service it's not even really a competition. They are playing a different ballgame.
Ignoring chargebacks, anti-consumer practices to collect additional fees, etc. - just something as simple as losing a credit card and needing a replacement sent is eye opening. A typical Visa/MC (even a so called premium card) will take a week. If you're lucky. Good luck if you happen to be traveling, have fun dealing with a 90 minute phone call involving an escalation to a manager. Amex will overnight you a new card to a random third world country with a 5 minute phone call.
It's stuff like that which keeps me firmly in the Amex fold. If/when they start screwing that part of their offering up, I'll switch instantly. So far their competition has a long way to come. The last two credit cards I've signed up for (for promotions) I've canceled within 60 days due to horrific anti-consumer - and in my opinion - entirely fraudulent business practices. I refuse to do business with folks who actively are trying to rip me off.
For people who are willing to jump through hoops and make a credit card issuer's problem theirs - amex is not the choice for you. For folks who think their bank should work on their behalf and not be something I have to set a calendar reminder for in order to remember stuff? Amex is the choice.
I actually get angry thinking of my last Visa experience (Google Credit) - it was so anti-consumer I can't even believe it's legal.
Counterpoint: I've had a Citi Premier Mastercard since 2008 and have lost it several times over that period. Every single time I call the conversation is sub-5 minutes and I ALWAYS have a new card in hand within 24 hours, including the time my wallet was stolen in London.
What's worse - if your foreign transaction is in any other currency than USD, they convert twice: once from the original currency into USD, and then again from USD into GBP. They only charge you 3% once, but you do suffer from their internal, presumably self-serving exchange rates twice.
This is in an environment where there are many UK credit cards offering fee-free foreign transactions at the "true" (no spread) exchange rate, and many more offering true exchange rate + less than 1%.
The Amex offering is laughably poor in comparison.
Though in general lounge benefits -- unless you're getting a dedicated lounge operated by the program giving you access -- are not something worth going for. Back when I had status on American Airlines, I and many other people learned how worthless the alliance-partner lounge benefits can be: in theory, as an AA Executive Platinum, I'd have access to a rather nice British Airways lounge when connecting to an AA transatlantic flight in Philadelphia, but BA's policy was basically "all times are peak times (so we can turn you away), if there's anyone in here it's at capacity (so we can turn you away), and if there's nobody in here we'll close (so we can turn you away)".
1. Failed negotiation with CostCo and losing the CostCo credit business.
2. The United and Continental merger that signed the death of the United / Amex relationship as all of that credit business moved to Chase and United was removed as a redemption partner, which was the number one membership rewards partner by a long-shot.
3. The loss of JetBlue as a partner that demotivated Amex in the affluent NYC credit theatre.
There were many other mistakes made, but those three had a compounding effect on Amex's negotiating leverage to earn transactions, carry cards, and to offer valuable rewards that drive member sentiment.
That's it. Three moves, each on their own survivable, but in concert essentially destroyed a well-balanced equation.
The question is, how will they catapult out of this?
They could sign a deal with Amazon to provide a Prime card that gives the cardholder $0 Amazon Prime when they use the card.
EDIT: I'm not suggesting that this is the ONLY benefit, just something comparable to the previous Costco arrangement they had.
But yeah, throw some extra points/cash back in there as well. I'd go for that in a heartbeat, and so would a lot of the demographic they're currently losing.
In Q4 2016 (I think) DiscoverIT was 5% on Amazon purchases, which is equally good, but then the Chase Prime Visa also became 5%, so there's no advantage to the Synchrony card whatsoever.
I have the original Blue Cash, that I've refused to trade in because the new versions are no where close. The rules are a little wonky... 1% cash back on groceries, gas, and drug stores until you spend $6500, then 5% back after that. Other purchases are .5% / 1%. All with no annual fee.
One thing that bothers me is AMEX says you don't get the cash back if you use a digital wallet. So, does that mean Apple Pay? Why would they add that restriction?
Millennials tend to not want to carry a gaggle of cards.
This is going to sound stupid, but the Preferred/Reserve lines are fun to use. They have a metal core which makes the card feel heavy. Cashiers would always comment on the card's weight. It feels satisfying when you drop it on the table at a restaurant. The perks aren't the best in the industry, but they're good enough, and the incredible amount of points you got when you switched over lowered the barrier to entry enough to make the move.
Without a doubt it's the "coolest" card in my wallet, and probably will be until I get an Amex Black (yeah, right.)
If too many cards are metal, it becomes less special. The heft of the metal makes me want to spend more, but not if every card has the same heft!
https://metal-creditcard.com/
That said, the addition of chips to US credit cards has made that more difficult.
It just so happens Chase has been pushing out cards that benefits my lifestyle the most.
*edit grammr
Read the SlickDeals thread:
https://slickdeals.net/f/9036199-chase-sapphire-reserve-100k...
Disclaimer: I am european, Amex doesn't exist here and you can't pay anything anywhere with that. Never heard about Sapphire before today. Maybe you guys don't have VISA and mastercard on your side of the Atlantic?
Yes, we have both Visa and MC over here.
Visa/MC are Android. Samsung (Chase), LG (Citi), HTC (BofA) are the hardware makers (card issuers) but they're all delivering the same Android (Visa/MC)
I don't have an analogy for Discover...
chuckle
Either way, I get very good customer support from American Express. Also way higher credit limit and points. My other card is a Citibank card. I never use it because I despise citibank.
Credit cards are usually issued by a card issuer (bank) and are co-branded with one of the card associations. For example, the Sapphire card is a particular credit card issued by Chase Bank, but is a Visa card.
American Express (Amex) is a little bit weird in that they act as both the issuer and the association for many of their cards. (They are less widely accepted than Visa or Mastercard).
See this American guide to choosing a credit card[1]. Factors that people consider include interest rate, amount of signing bonus, rewards (such as a percentage cash back on each purchase or a percentage of frequent flyer miles on each purchase), yearly fee to use the card, and other services that come with membership such as warranty protection, concierge, discounts, and reserved tickets for events.
What cards are available to a person depends highly on their credit history and income.
[1]https://www.creditkarma.com/article/choose_a_credit_card
Because credit cards barely exist on that side of the Atlantic.
Credit cards, on the other hand, are connected to a revolving line of credit. When a merchant charges the card, the issuer is essentially loaning the amount of the charge to the cardholder. (With most credit cards, interest only starts accruing a month after the charge; so people who pay their credit card bills in full are not paying interest.)
In the US, credit cards were introduced as a convenient alternative to checks or cash before debit cards existed. Because of cultural momentum, rewards, and fraud protection, they are as widely used as debit cards, if not more so.
http://archive.is/XEYJY
It details the efforts of someone who managed to get a Sapphire Reserve card after dressing up as a Sapphire Reserve card for Halloween and sending a photo of it to Chase:
> “I’m kind of a credit-card—maybe junkie is not the right word—but I’m a credit-card enthusiast,” says Mary Xu, a San Francisco cybersecurity manager. In pursuit of points, she spends more than $1,000 a year on annual fees for high-end cards.
> She was so disappointed to be rejected for the Sapphire Reserve last October that she spent hours constructing a costume of the card out of cardboard. She sent the bank a photo of herself dressed up, hoping for a second chance. She was approved about three months later.
The best part is that they realized you can keep the people from finding out that they are being royally ripped off by giving every single 30 card toting person the special feeling that they are the one getting back more than they put in.
What you are talking about may be well be true but let's be very clear here that transaction fees above that number are ripoff for gimmicks, not the equivalent of what cash handling would cost.
This is just paying attention to how you spend your money and being informed about the choices you make. If you are going to get a credit card, you might as well both know what you are getting into and get the best thing for you that you can. Kinda like any other loan contract (after all, credit cards are a short-term loan).
I suppose it depends on definitions.
I like to think I'm smart, but I'm unsure whether I'd meet your definition of wealthy. However, I do have experience of widely disparate income brackets. Growing up, and during my first few years on my own as an adult, I've had experience of living at or below the poverty line. Now, I'm above the 95th percentile for income in the US.
And the single biggest difference is in how I view tradeoffs of time/effort versus money. For example, I pay my utility bills online with a credit card, and the company charges me a "convenience fee" to do that. When I was younger, I had to count every penny in order to be sure I could make ends meet. Now? Avoiding the fee would be a net loss. I can estimate how many minutes of time it would take me to go dig out my checkbook, write a check, put it in an envelope, find a stamp, go to a mailbox and drop it in. And I can work out, given my salary, how much those minutes are worth: they're worth more than the "convenience fee".
The same is true of many of the "service fees" you're deriding here. I've been in a position where avoiding the fees was of extreme importance, but now I'm in a position where avoiding the fees is literally a money-losing proposition in many cases. The result is that I simply don't bother below a certain dollar amount (and that dollar amount would frighten my younger self).
And to be honest, it's a guilty pleasure to not care about those fees. When I was younger, I didn't realize what a sense of freedom there was in being able to just not care about a few dollars here and there.
(1) Lost US Airways lounge access from the Amex platinum (merger).
(2) Lost Continental as a transfer partner for MR (merger).
(3) Lost Continental lounge access from the Amex platinum (merger).
(4) Lost Delta lounge guest access.
(5) Saw serious devaluations in Aeroplan for MR.
(6) Saw serious devaluations in Delta for MR (no more 50% transfer bonuses).
(7) Saw serious devaluations in BA for MR (transfer 1:1 with 50% bonuses to 1:0.8 with occasional bonuses).
(8) No more points lending (you used to be able to transfer more than you had if you earned them back within a year, otherwise they'd bill you).
(9) Lost JetBlue co-brand card.
(10) Lost Costco co-brand card.
(11) Saw Plenti flop, and I haven't really heard much of Bluebird.
A few years ago, you needed 120,000 Amex points for a first-class round-the-world flight with no fuel surcharges and 2 stopovers in addition to your destination. That price has pretty much doubled in points and gone up 100x in cash. It's just not as rewarding as it used to be.
On the other hand, Chase jumped in, offered lower-fee cards ($95 for Preferred vs $175 for Amex PRG) with more valuable transfer partners -- especially before the United devaluation -- and large signup bonuses. They were friendlier, less stodgy and offered a better value proposition overall in 2011 with the Sapphire Preferred. Then they upped the stakes with the Reserve.
Amex should be worried.
also, i remember amex had exclusive deals with a few ultra high end retailers, Nieman Marcus, for one, and those are out--eg, so up until about 10 years ago, that was the only credit card accepted at NM.
I don't fly a lot, and cash back is just simpler even though it is not as min/max as getting miles. I use the little bit of Venture redemptions paying for Uber/Lyfts.
I've looked at the higher end paid for cards, but I might only fly 4x year, and they have not really seemed worth it.
When we traveled to Italy 12 years ago, we took travelers' checks. The local banks would shake their heads and point at the ATM. As you say, getting free travelers' checks don't matter if you can't cash them.
It used to be standard advice to put some travelers' checks in your sock drawer (or wherever) to have some emergency money on hand that wasn't easily stolen. I calculated how much money was lost by having travelers checks for 31 years instead of sitting in a bank and it was about $3000 at 5%. Hard to find in these times but not until recently.
I switched to Chase.
I refuse to use Chase anything because of how poorly they treat their lower income customers (staging transactions to maximize overdraft fees, etc.)
When I'm someplace that won't take AMEX, I use Discover. If they won't take Discover I use my credit union Visa.
Yep, a true pain to explain to someone how pulling that stunt is legal. About the same fun as banks cashing checks in order to maximize overdraft fees.
AMEX also does the Bluebird cards which are pretty nice for poor folks since you can do direct deposit to the card itself and it has no charge refilling at Walmart.
Closing the actual physical Amex offices also was a big step down (I've been a member since 97).
I would not want to bet on Amex at this point -- losing Costco, competition from Chase, and now Citi pushing to expand their own cards.
I'm surprised there hasn't been a lower-merchant-fees challenger now that everyone has a mobile phone; you could probably do something which presents at POSes as a credit card, handles a bunch of auth back through the customer's own mobile phone connection (but encrypted/authenticated), presenting a time of use credential which is matched by the POS while appearing as a regular credit card. Building something like that which costs the merchant <1%, and maybe which provides customers with a lot more purchasing/receipt info (for company purchasing cards).
If Goldman Sachs (or Apple) offered a 5% return to purchases using Apply Pay, I'd use it.
If I could give out purchasing "cards" to all my team which relied on Apple Pay but brought back realtime stats, that'd be a win too (especially if it did things like track capital purchases, warranties, management, etc.)
It was still an okay experience but not what it used to be.
- Excellent travel insurance
- 15-20% discount on car rentals with Hertz and Avis, priority service including complimentary upgrades, and no extra fees for super cover
Additionally their fraud detection and customer service is great. If my card is stolen or there are unauthorized transactions, they'll sort it out immediately and get Anne's card in your hands within the day. As a European who travels a lot in Europe and across the Atlantic, there's no other card that offers the same.
Then there's all the rest, VIP access, airport lounges, concierge service etc. Those are nice extras.
I pay everything on my Amex. Some smaller shops don't take Amex, but most places I've been seem to accept it. The few times I have to fall back to a Visa or MC I struggle to recall the pin.
They've also got an opt-in plan where any time you rent a car with your card they charge you a $25 flat free, and then that buys you coverage that runs primary so you don't have to claim against your own car insurance at all.
Another good feature is I've sometimes had to return the cars in different cities, and every time they waived the fee because of the preferred status as a card carrying member. These things add up for sure.
As far as I know, the insurance also works with any agency, so not just Avis and Hertz, so there's money to save even if you go for a more "fun" agency like Sixt, with nicer cars.
Disclaimer: You'll want to verify all this with Amex though, but this is what I've been told and what I've read in the ToS.
Got burnt by that last summer when I wrecked a rented truck (on my AmEx Platinum) on vacation for the girlfriend's birthday. :/