I first would like to say this is a horrible way to treat anybody and hope that Neha Rastogi gets all the support she needs to deal with this situation.
That being said, does even the spousal abuse have to be related to software in Silicon Valley? Just listening to the video was so surreal. Lots of spouses fight over things but what a "bug" is or is not? It's just crazy that this is what came out of Silicon Valley.
Couples mostly fight over inane things. I only read 1/2 the article but it sounds like they're both quite sick. Him a seemingly sociopath (as many CEOs are) and her some kind of dependence disorder (codependence?) . Why in the world would she bail out someone who has abused her? They both need treatment.
Jail will be part of his recovery (as long as he isnt badly beaten or raped). But I also think he deserves mental health care. Counseling or something.
Beaten or raped? He got 30 days in Silicon Valley jail not prison. He will likely get put in special custody with benefits, and probably get out early, maybe within a week or two.
He will learn nothing from this, and is likely even angrier at his wife. He will get joint custody and find ways to torture her emotionally.
Why would she bail him out? They have kids, he has the money, she still loved him and hoped he would now change, etc. People make decisions based on hope all the time.
people who know anything about abuse realize that there's almost always enablement on the victims behalf for abuse to continue beyond a very small number of instances. Think of the alcoholic's spouse. The spouse often makes excuses for the alcoholic, often struggles to ensure the finances remain in order, that the alcoholic's responsibilities are taken care of when they're drunk etc.
In this case it sounds like codependence. She was afraid and unable to do what she must to avoid the abuse from her spouse . Yes, she's a victim in the initial case(s) but subsequent cases it begs what is out of order in her that she didnt leave, didnt value her and her child enough to seek the health and safety ? Thats the sick part. A healthy person wouldnt take that abuse.
The Santa Clara District Attorney simply doesn't get it. I saw a domestic violence case first hand - the husband was arrested, got out on bail, but the DA never filed charges and simply dropped the case because it didn't involve severe damage. For the DA to file charges, they'd have to see a hand or leg broken badly. What they don't understand is the enormous mental pain these women, especially from Asian countries, go through. It's just sad.
Reading this made me want to throw up. Absolutely horrible.
But then while listening to the video, I realized the recording sounded a lot like what I would hear when my parents beat my siblings/myself as kids for doing something wrong.
This made me wonder:
Is hitting your kids any less morally despicable than hitting your spouse?
Why does such a large section of society think it's OK to hit your kids and not your spouse?
Regardless of your stance on corporal punishment, a parent is in a position of authority over, and responsible for training their children. The relationship between a parent and child is ideally a loving relationship, but it is not a relationship of equals. The parent, culturally and legally, is expected to make decisions in the child's best interest, even, sometimes, when the child disagrees. A child is not an adult.
The relationship to a spouse is fundamentally different. In this country, marriage is a union of two equals. You do not give up the legal autonomy granted to you at 18 just because you got married.
Most people would find it weird or creepy to find you were using other kinds of punishment on your spouse, even punishments that are uncontroversial when used on children, just because this implies that you are not respecting your spouse as an equal, but instead treating him or her as a child.
Playing devil's advocate, there are a number of real world examples of relationships with power, authority, equality differentials where we'd still not be comfortable with corporal punishment.
For example, teacher/student, employee/boss.
After thinking about it more, one rationalization is that we assume it's for the kids' greater good and kids don't know what's best for them while adults do. Of course, one must believe corporal punishment is an effective way to train behavior and the purpose when used is truly to improve the kid's well being.
The only reason corporal punishment was used is because it causes an immediate response but that is one driven by fear. It is control by violence which is by definition a form of domestic violence. As a society we only accept it now in situations by law enforcement. But even then that is limited acceptance (for example in the United airlines incident). As a simple example, you don't teach someone to not hit someone by hitting them. Maybe that model was effective as animals but as humans we have much more powerful behavior modification techniques.
For example, the only thing that really works to modify behavior and generate long term compliance is positive reinforcement. The science is clear. Kids live in the moment. Reward the behavior you want and ignore the behavior you don't. This works surprisingly well with adults as well.
I know everyone hates anecdotal evidence on HN, but positive reinforcement doesn't work for every child. Negative reinforcement was a requirement for me when I was a kid. Ignoring my dickish behavior to my siblings would have been counter productive. A nice spank or belt to the backside was essential for compliance.
> Is hitting your kids any less morally despicable than hitting your spouse?
> Why does such a large section of society think it's OK to hit your kids and not your spouse?
It's not OK. Beating your kids is not OK. Beating your wife is not OK. Beating anyone is not OK.
Resolving to violence is weak.
One of the cases is when adult tries to explain something to kid but kid can't understand. Adult gets frustrated and starts beating kid. I was not a smart kid and my father was not particularly great at explaining things. He never beat me but verbally and vocally felt that way.
I know a number of people (at least 5 off the top of my head) who are genuinely thankful for being physically punished as children and claim they are better people for it.
>Is hitting your kids any less morally despicable than hitting your spouse?
The only time I have ever (and will ever) hit my children is when they are around the toddler age and try to do something very dangerous that I've repeatedly tried to get them not to do.
For example: trying to pry the safety cover off of an electrical outlet in order to insert a fork, running towards traffic, pushing their siblings near the top of the stairs etc.
A two year old doesn't have the mental ability to fully understand why such things are bad and so in the past I've given them exactly two quick spanks to the bottom so they understand the severity of what they were doing. It's extremely rare that this happens but I'd prefer to do that than risk missing an attempt that could end in disaster.
Beating is, of course, always out of line.
The difference between this and a spouse is that the spouse is obviously able to make their own decisions.
I grew up in a culture where it was normal to hit kids. But my parents never hit me. I was just as bad as any other kid in the block. What that taught me is that love and affection are far more powerful than fear. I've never hit my kids and I never will. Every time they do something that makes me really angry, I think of my parents. It's not ok to hit anyone. There's never a valid reason. Most of the time it's your weakness in action.
First of all, not all "hitting" is equal. There is a significant difference between punishment (spanking) and abuse (beating). I got the belt as a child from my father when my mother's time-outs or light spanks weren't enough. I certainly deserved and needed it to correct my behavior.
Second, the difference is your spouse is your equal while your children are dependents. You cannot reasonably punish your equal. You can only reason with her. As a parent however, it is your duty to teach, guide, and discipline your children on how to behave. Depending on the child, harsher punishment may be required to ensure the right values are instilled (I certainly needed it).
Corporal punishment in my opinion is lazy parenting. I've thought about this a lot. My parents divorced early, I was raised by my father. He loved me and my brother no doubt but after a hard days work he had no interest in doing normal parent things - like camping/fishing activities or just spending time with us. We got punished when we screwed up. Sometimes unjustly, like him having heard rumors and acting on them. If he had spent more time with us growing up rather than watching TV he would have known our character. I would of appreciated it a lot more if he had bothered to wither us down with kindness and patience. Now that things are a lot better between us and i'm a working adult, corporal punishment is one of my dads regrets.
Why the heck does this guy think abuse is OK? I mean, what possible thought process could he have, that ends with "...and that's why I should hit my wife today!"
I'm not trying to justify the guy's actions. I'm just trying to figure out how he justifies his actions to himself. I want to gain insight into why this kind of thing happens, maybe that will give some clues about how to detect or prevent it.
44 comments
[ 1.6 ms ] story [ 146 ms ] threadSilence, I kill you !!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBvfiCdk-jc
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
That being said, does even the spousal abuse have to be related to software in Silicon Valley? Just listening to the video was so surreal. Lots of spouses fight over things but what a "bug" is or is not? It's just crazy that this is what came out of Silicon Valley.
He will learn nothing from this, and is likely even angrier at his wife. He will get joint custody and find ways to torture her emotionally.
In this case it sounds like codependence. She was afraid and unable to do what she must to avoid the abuse from her spouse . Yes, she's a victim in the initial case(s) but subsequent cases it begs what is out of order in her that she didnt leave, didnt value her and her child enough to seek the health and safety ? Thats the sick part. A healthy person wouldnt take that abuse.
But then while listening to the video, I realized the recording sounded a lot like what I would hear when my parents beat my siblings/myself as kids for doing something wrong.
This made me wonder:
Is hitting your kids any less morally despicable than hitting your spouse?
Why does such a large section of society think it's OK to hit your kids and not your spouse?
Curious to hear what other people think.
The relationship to a spouse is fundamentally different. In this country, marriage is a union of two equals. You do not give up the legal autonomy granted to you at 18 just because you got married.
Most people would find it weird or creepy to find you were using other kinds of punishment on your spouse, even punishments that are uncontroversial when used on children, just because this implies that you are not respecting your spouse as an equal, but instead treating him or her as a child.
For example, teacher/student, employee/boss.
After thinking about it more, one rationalization is that we assume it's for the kids' greater good and kids don't know what's best for them while adults do. Of course, one must believe corporal punishment is an effective way to train behavior and the purpose when used is truly to improve the kid's well being.
The only reason corporal punishment was used is because it causes an immediate response but that is one driven by fear. It is control by violence which is by definition a form of domestic violence. As a society we only accept it now in situations by law enforcement. But even then that is limited acceptance (for example in the United airlines incident). As a simple example, you don't teach someone to not hit someone by hitting them. Maybe that model was effective as animals but as humans we have much more powerful behavior modification techniques.
For example, the only thing that really works to modify behavior and generate long term compliance is positive reinforcement. The science is clear. Kids live in the moment. Reward the behavior you want and ignore the behavior you don't. This works surprisingly well with adults as well.
> Why does such a large section of society think it's OK to hit your kids and not your spouse?
It's not OK. Beating your kids is not OK. Beating your wife is not OK. Beating anyone is not OK.
Resolving to violence is weak.
One of the cases is when adult tries to explain something to kid but kid can't understand. Adult gets frustrated and starts beating kid. I was not a smart kid and my father was not particularly great at explaining things. He never beat me but verbally and vocally felt that way.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
I know a number of people (at least 5 off the top of my head) who are genuinely thankful for being physically punished as children and claim they are better people for it.
This is a legitimate claim.
edit: for clarity.
The only time I have ever (and will ever) hit my children is when they are around the toddler age and try to do something very dangerous that I've repeatedly tried to get them not to do.
For example: trying to pry the safety cover off of an electrical outlet in order to insert a fork, running towards traffic, pushing their siblings near the top of the stairs etc.
A two year old doesn't have the mental ability to fully understand why such things are bad and so in the past I've given them exactly two quick spanks to the bottom so they understand the severity of what they were doing. It's extremely rare that this happens but I'd prefer to do that than risk missing an attempt that could end in disaster.
Beating is, of course, always out of line.
The difference between this and a spouse is that the spouse is obviously able to make their own decisions.
Second, the difference is your spouse is your equal while your children are dependents. You cannot reasonably punish your equal. You can only reason with her. As a parent however, it is your duty to teach, guide, and discipline your children on how to behave. Depending on the child, harsher punishment may be required to ensure the right values are instilled (I certainly needed it).
I'm not trying to justify the guy's actions. I'm just trying to figure out how he justifies his actions to himself. I want to gain insight into why this kind of thing happens, maybe that will give some clues about how to detect or prevent it.