I too am tired of the Five Minutes Hate. Seems like every day there's another person, company, entity the news says I'm supposed to dread and boycott. United, American Airlines, Uber, Macys, Chick-fil-a, the list goes on.
Unlike the ones in 1984, nobody requires you to participate.
I, for one, appreciate it. It's highly inconsistent, but it's one of the few ways that we can check the power of entities with vastly more resources than most of us will ever have.
What does it say about the construction and stability of our society that this should be true? I can see why someone might appreciate it, and I used to feel the same, but on further reflection I find it cause for considerable trepidation about the future.
One is that individual humans are being gradually edged out in favor of these composite entities, and this is our lame attempt to fight back.
The other is that bad treatment has always happened and companies are just not adjusting quickly enough to the new social media world. In olden times, companies knew not to piss off influential people, but had much more leeway with common riffraff. Now the common riffraff can be highly influential and companies haven't quite caught on to this yet.
That's the exact attitude that leads those companies to behave badly. Its crazy that we love chicken enough to let CFA, a proudly bigoted org, succeed in NorCal.
Do you have any proof that Chick-fil-A is "proudly bigoted"? Like is there a page on their website somewhere saying "gays need not apply"? Or is it ok now to redefine words whenever we want? Because that would be... ungood.
Yes and no... we might reach an equilibrium where the level of customer service just increases. Visit Japan and then come back to the USA- American companies treat their customers like cattle (or cow pies).
I'm pretty sure the service level is a function of culture (e.g. ones upbringing), payment vs expectations in ones job, overworking, stress and so on. I think hoping that a viral video will change anything about that without a change to the mentioned things is all washed up.
I really don't understand why people get upset about this type of news, engaging with it is completely voluntary. I read the news every morning and I had no idea this was even an event.
The reason these videos appeal to people is because it returns some power back to the customer being mistreated.
Any fairly frequent flier will have horror stories of being mistreated by airline or border personnel, and most times the only thing you can do is to put up with it. But NOW, after the United incident, it feels like the customer is no longer as helpless as before and can no longer be mistreated with impunity.
This is irrespective of validity of any of the viral videos being circulated.
Which is ironic because the guy was crazy. He was randomly selected to be bumped and the cops had to be called in to haul him off the plane, after pleading with him for half hour. What a self-important jackass - sucks he got a bad break with the lottery but if he doesn't go somebody else will have to take his place. That's not fair either.
What's not fair is removing a paying passenger against their will for no good reason. United could have just increased the compensation until somebody left willingly. Instead they chose to involve law enforcement, with predictable results.
>What's not fair is removing a paying passenger against their will for no good reason.
No, it's not fair, but it wouldn't be fair to remove another passenger because this one felt he was too important to be bumped.
>United could have just increased the compensation until somebody left willingly.
Sure, and United paid for that mistake and then some. But just because they made a mistake doesn't mean the other guy did not act like a psycho.
>they chose to involve law enforcement, with predictable results.
Those aren't predictable results. Predictable results are: "United involved law enforcement, and the passenger left the airplane promptly". A more typical scenario would see him leave way before United called the cops.
Nobody is saying United should have removed another passenger instead. That's a straw man.
The results may not be what usually happens but they are entirely predictable. Any time you get law enforcement involved, there's a decent chance that violence will ensue. The entire point of law enforcement is to be the sole state-approved user of violence.
Not everyone agrees that there was "no good reason". I'm sure the 160 people (on the flight the deadhead crew was headed for) who would have been without a flight crew would disagree.
What's the point of this post? And why is this on front page?
P.S.: Wow! that was the fastest downvote ever (1 minute!). Waiting for the comment including the reasoning...
Edit: I see some users mentioning this story has been flagged. Just so you don't get more angry at me, I haven't flagged this (or anything ever), nor I'm sure I could if I wanted to. I have questions and would like to read answers about it, I'm not up for shutting down the discussion.
I'm not the one who voted you, but I do see where the downvote may have come from – your comment doesn't really add much to the discussion. As for why it's on the front page, seems other people found it interesting and upvoted it. You don't have to agree with them, but I think it's easy to see why this article may be of interest to people.
and what is the value of:
"I Don’t Care If a Flight Attendant Almost Hit a Baby"
It is a purely selfish post that obviously focuses on the "I" of a narcissistic and maybe sociopath mind. What does it add to the broader value of the issue?
The downvotes keep coming, I guess that's the hivemind at work.
But anyway, allow me to disagree: My comment has two very valid questions.
1) What's the point of the article? The rest of the comments here are just people being angry because a dude said he's tired of being angry, and that he can't be angry without facts. Really, please someone explain to me, what's the point of the article? I'm calling for civil discussion.
2) Why is this in front page? I understand the technical aspects of this being front page; but I'm baffled this is #1 and I thought people would be able to explain why they think it's relevant.
I guess there's no room anymore for difficult questions and it's all about being angry and downvoting.
Look, there is clearly an algorithm at work that promotes stories that get voted up early and frequently. So there's your answer. As for your question about why you got downvoted, check the news guidelines: Please don't submit comments complaining that a submission is inappropriate for the site.
I didn't exactly complain that it is inappropriate. I have asked two valid questions :)
I understand most people would only extract that from my question (which is nuanced, I admit); but they're either wrong or downvoting me in disagreement, which is against the rules I believe :)
Thanks for replying!
P.S.: Thanks for the reminder about the technical aspect of a story going to #1 fast.
Sure, you're not required, but people will tell you that you're literally Hitler if you don't support their cause of the day. I'm sure eating a chicken sandwich is morally equivalent to gassing some homosexuals.
Nope. When I go to my local Chick-fil-a, I see no protestors, no signs, and no name-calling, just people ordering and eating food. This is in a big, left-leaning city.
Looking at the comments here, nobody's calling anybody names for not caring enough. There's discussion and argument, but not even mild insults, let alone Hitler-calling.
I'm sure it happens sometimes somewhere, but it's far from the norm.
It kind of goes both ways. Personally I really do not care about peole like this author that likes to rant as if the rest of us are a-holes for not being comfortable seeing a person being abused. Why did he even write this? It reflects very poorly on him. Had that baby been hit it could have been worse. There was really no excuse to use force in this situation and yet the fly attendant choose to do do so. It doesn't matter what his excuse was, a baby almost got hurt because of his actions. Yes, I will get upset about something like this.
I don't like the five minutes of hate either. And the over abundance of out-of-context filming going on everywhere.
But I do care that a woman was hit by a stroller and that a baby was almost hit. Mr. Flight Attendant is an employee, not police officer, and has no right to assault anyone.
What upsets me, and everyone else if they spent a minute to think about it, is that flying (among many other things we do) has become a throughly unpleasant.
Flight crews are increadily underpaid, over worked and under extreme stress. If they don't close that gate on time they'll miss departure, have to wait in cue several minutes and cost their company thousands in fuel.
So they're stressed, annoyed, view us a cattle (which we are) and will lay their hands on woman with babies.
It's not the flight attendants fault. It's American Airlines' fault.
>I don't like the five minutes of hate either...But I do care that a woman was hit by a stroller and that a baby was almost hit. Mr. Flight Attendant is an employee, not police officer, and has no right to assault anyone.
Well, which is it? Because at any given point in time there are thousands of things happening where people are clashing over something or other - that's called life. You're really unlucky when one of those events goes viral and has someone like you pilling on with the rest of the mob to make sure your sanctimonious perspective is heard.
Except that anyone who has flown in an airplane knows that these aren't rare, unthinkable, events. Every time we fly we get nasty, rude, on the edge of snapping flight crews.
So, ya I hate the 5 minutes of hate culture, except that's the only defense we, as the public, have against entrenched power.
Same goes for cops, soldiers, Uber, etc. I'm sorry but I no longer buy the "lone bad apple" story.
Ahhh. I understand. You're pilling on as way to air your grievances. It doesn't matter what the actual situation is, you feel that because you didn't have a good experience flying you want to take your shot against another target to make yourself feel better.
Except that anyone who has flown in an airplane knows that these aren't rare, unthinkable, events. Every time we fly we get nasty, rude, on the edge of snapping flight crews.
So, ya I hate the 5 minutes of hate culture, except that's the only defense we, as the public, have against entrenched power.
Same goes for cops, soldiers, Uber, etc. I'm sorry but I no longer buy the "lone bad apple" story.
tl;dr: Stop reacting to videos of humans not being at their finest.
Well, yes and no. Yes overreacting with outrage to situations where we don't always have the full details is fraught with pitfalls.
At the same time, perhaps we can as a society use these moments, not for outrage but to make us better at being human. Recognize that in the grand scheme of things, we are all humans and in the same boat, and that it is better for us to suffer a LITTLE injustice instead of escalating to A LOT of injustice for someone else (aka. revenge).
Fun note: the old Moses law of "an eye for an eye" was meant in the context of not retaliating with greater force than the original injustice, precisely to avoid conflict escalation.
"I'm sure there is a perfectly valid and rational explananation for why this woman was hit with her own stroller and then a child was physically threatened."
Oh. Okay. Yeah. I bet she was asking for this treatment. Just look at how she was dressed, right? Right!?
While it is cough unfortunate that now you have to see a clearer and less imperfect window into fellow human experience and feel those damnable pangs of empathy ever now and then, this is inevitable.
There are 2 kinds of global surveillance. There is the kind kicked off by the government to quasi-legally spy on anyone at any time for "national security". There is also the kind that is bottom up, the population sharing it's perspectives with itself.
The later has been increasingly influential. It has shown us police brutality. It has debunked ideas that women at the Berkeley riot was armed (and shown Reuters doesn't vet photos very well). It has shown us black citizens trying to stop white antifa activists from starting a riot in their neighborhood. It's shown us Nazis being punched. It reminds us of the lies and about-faces of politicians. It has shown us the poor driving skills of our peers. And that's this month alone.
And on and on.
For all it's flaws, this surveillance led by individuals (who recognize they own their own perspective and have a right to share it) is changing society far more than anything else we've seen in recent memory and it is accelerating.
While he has a point, the way that the flight attendant reacted when the man wanted his name by wanting to fight was uncalled for. This is a big indication to me that again they handled this situation poorly and the man that supposedly hit the woman and almost her child, was probably not in a good state of mind. If you hurt or injure someone as a person working in the service industry, your first reaction should not be wanting to fight someone that is being abrasive while trying to help.
58 comments
[ 4.3 ms ] story [ 140 ms ] threadI, for one, appreciate it. It's highly inconsistent, but it's one of the few ways that we can check the power of entities with vastly more resources than most of us will ever have.
One is that individual humans are being gradually edged out in favor of these composite entities, and this is our lame attempt to fight back.
The other is that bad treatment has always happened and companies are just not adjusting quickly enough to the new social media world. In olden times, companies knew not to piss off influential people, but had much more leeway with common riffraff. Now the common riffraff can be highly influential and companies haven't quite caught on to this yet.
I think/hope it's the second....
Then don't eat there and shut the fuck up about it. It's a fucking sandwich joint. They're not putting queers in camps.
Any fairly frequent flier will have horror stories of being mistreated by airline or border personnel, and most times the only thing you can do is to put up with it. But NOW, after the United incident, it feels like the customer is no longer as helpless as before and can no longer be mistreated with impunity. This is irrespective of validity of any of the viral videos being circulated.
Which is ironic because the guy was crazy. He was randomly selected to be bumped and the cops had to be called in to haul him off the plane, after pleading with him for half hour. What a self-important jackass - sucks he got a bad break with the lottery but if he doesn't go somebody else will have to take his place. That's not fair either.
No, it's not fair, but it wouldn't be fair to remove another passenger because this one felt he was too important to be bumped.
>United could have just increased the compensation until somebody left willingly.
Sure, and United paid for that mistake and then some. But just because they made a mistake doesn't mean the other guy did not act like a psycho.
>they chose to involve law enforcement, with predictable results.
Those aren't predictable results. Predictable results are: "United involved law enforcement, and the passenger left the airplane promptly". A more typical scenario would see him leave way before United called the cops.
The results may not be what usually happens but they are entirely predictable. Any time you get law enforcement involved, there's a decent chance that violence will ensue. The entire point of law enforcement is to be the sole state-approved user of violence.
P.S.: Wow! that was the fastest downvote ever (1 minute!). Waiting for the comment including the reasoning...
Edit: I see some users mentioning this story has been flagged. Just so you don't get more angry at me, I haven't flagged this (or anything ever), nor I'm sure I could if I wanted to. I have questions and would like to read answers about it, I'm not up for shutting down the discussion.
It is a purely selfish post that obviously focuses on the "I" of a narcissistic and maybe sociopath mind. What does it add to the broader value of the issue?
This should not be on the front page.
The downvotes keep coming, I guess that's the hivemind at work.
But anyway, allow me to disagree: My comment has two very valid questions.
1) What's the point of the article? The rest of the comments here are just people being angry because a dude said he's tired of being angry, and that he can't be angry without facts. Really, please someone explain to me, what's the point of the article? I'm calling for civil discussion.
2) Why is this in front page? I understand the technical aspects of this being front page; but I'm baffled this is #1 and I thought people would be able to explain why they think it's relevant.
I guess there's no room anymore for difficult questions and it's all about being angry and downvoting.
I understand most people would only extract that from my question (which is nuanced, I admit); but they're either wrong or downvoting me in disagreement, which is against the rules I believe :)
Thanks for replying!
P.S.: Thanks for the reminder about the technical aspect of a story going to #1 fast.
Looking at the comments here, nobody's calling anybody names for not caring enough. There's discussion and argument, but not even mild insults, let alone Hitler-calling.
I'm sure it happens sometimes somewhere, but it's far from the norm.
Point out some examples or admit you don't care to have an actual conversation.
You're just making assumptions, and proving that you're an idiot who cannot read.
> Point out some examples or admit you don't care to have an actual conversation.
You think you know specific things that have happened to me, in my life better than I? Get over yourself, you're a fucking idiot.
But I do care that a woman was hit by a stroller and that a baby was almost hit. Mr. Flight Attendant is an employee, not police officer, and has no right to assault anyone.
What upsets me, and everyone else if they spent a minute to think about it, is that flying (among many other things we do) has become a throughly unpleasant.
Flight crews are increadily underpaid, over worked and under extreme stress. If they don't close that gate on time they'll miss departure, have to wait in cue several minutes and cost their company thousands in fuel.
So they're stressed, annoyed, view us a cattle (which we are) and will lay their hands on woman with babies.
It's not the flight attendants fault. It's American Airlines' fault.
Well, which is it? Because at any given point in time there are thousands of things happening where people are clashing over something or other - that's called life. You're really unlucky when one of those events goes viral and has someone like you pilling on with the rest of the mob to make sure your sanctimonious perspective is heard.
So, ya I hate the 5 minutes of hate culture, except that's the only defense we, as the public, have against entrenched power.
Same goes for cops, soldiers, Uber, etc. I'm sorry but I no longer buy the "lone bad apple" story.
So, ya I hate the 5 minutes of hate culture, except that's the only defense we, as the public, have against entrenched power.
Same goes for cops, soldiers, Uber, etc. I'm sorry but I no longer buy the "lone bad apple" story.
Well, yes and no. Yes overreacting with outrage to situations where we don't always have the full details is fraught with pitfalls.
At the same time, perhaps we can as a society use these moments, not for outrage but to make us better at being human. Recognize that in the grand scheme of things, we are all humans and in the same boat, and that it is better for us to suffer a LITTLE injustice instead of escalating to A LOT of injustice for someone else (aka. revenge).
Fun note: the old Moses law of "an eye for an eye" was meant in the context of not retaliating with greater force than the original injustice, precisely to avoid conflict escalation.
Oh. Okay. Yeah. I bet she was asking for this treatment. Just look at how she was dressed, right? Right!?
While it is cough unfortunate that now you have to see a clearer and less imperfect window into fellow human experience and feel those damnable pangs of empathy ever now and then, this is inevitable.
There are 2 kinds of global surveillance. There is the kind kicked off by the government to quasi-legally spy on anyone at any time for "national security". There is also the kind that is bottom up, the population sharing it's perspectives with itself.
The later has been increasingly influential. It has shown us police brutality. It has debunked ideas that women at the Berkeley riot was armed (and shown Reuters doesn't vet photos very well). It has shown us black citizens trying to stop white antifa activists from starting a riot in their neighborhood. It's shown us Nazis being punched. It reminds us of the lies and about-faces of politicians. It has shown us the poor driving skills of our peers. And that's this month alone.
And on and on.
For all it's flaws, this surveillance led by individuals (who recognize they own their own perspective and have a right to share it) is changing society far more than anything else we've seen in recent memory and it is accelerating.
It's a good thing, on balance