Main gripe I have with PTVS:
Please improve doc rendering, you can use sphinx to create rendered docs as Spyder does very well. It makes coding so much easier for use mortals you have not memorized numpy and every caveat. I'm specifically talking about the very large docs in functions, rendered equations, links and references. Putting all of that in intellisense hoverbox is unusable, make a separate window box.
Otherwise it's pretty good. I actually use both Spyder and PTVS and am unhappy with both. Bad doc rendering in PTVS, no git in Spyder.
I don't think it is a good idea for Python development to depend on Microsoft products. Eclipse with Pydev is an amazing option for example, and many people swear PyCharm is great.
Lock you in? To what? I see it as just another option (tool) of the many available tools out there. If it is better than the rest and makes it easier to build solutions, I would consider paying for it.
JetBrains IDE's are all better than VS. I've used both sides extensively, and it's a no-brainer. I'm a professional .NET dev, and I am now using Rider instead of VS every day, even though I still have to switch over to VS to publish....
How are you going to be locked into an IDE for Python? You can edit the Python code in any other IDE. There is no switching cost. If you put in dependencies or built it on Azure maybe you'd have problems switching, but you could still do it. But if you don't want any sort of lock-in, you can just use the IDE. The anti-Microsoft sentiment on this board is so laughable sometimes.
Is this Windows only? I downloaded VS 2017 on OS X and the installer does not show the option "Web & Cloud > Python Development" as described in this link[0].
Visual Studio for Mac is a lie, mostly. It has nothing to do with Visual Studio, I doubt they share any code. If they do, it's very little and very recent.
VS Mac doesn't support VS extensions. And a lot of other VS things.
I just bought VS 2015 in Oct 2016 and there is no upgrade path to VS 2017. Microsoft sold me legacy product and support says I have to pay again. This is still good old money hungry Microsoft that is trying to lure developer into their tools trap.
There's astounding amount of companies that are just telling employees to use community edition, too. Haven't yet heard of anyone being sued over it. (Just to clarify, I do not support or excuse this behaviour).
It is astounding how many people don't read the license. You can legally use VS Community in your company for paid software as long as you have less than 5 employees or make less than one million per year.
Not if you sell your product to a company that have more than 5 employees or make more than million. Essentially community edition is for students and enthusiasts.
It is if client gets that money. If you write and sell your software to such clients you can't use community version even if you work alone and get paid less than a million.
Doesn't really change the point about being cheap, but a business with $1 million in profit is way more fun than a business with $1 million in revenue.
If you are working on the client premises ask them to buy a license for you to use. If you are working from your home ... use the Community edition and that's it.
You can legally use the Community edition for paid software, as long as your company has less than 5 employees and makes less than one million $/year or something like that (read the license carefully).
Why should I pay for things I don't need? Every other company offers upgrade paths but not Microsoft. Had I known earlier they don't care about small devs I would have bought something else.
You don't have to, but you are saying that you need to upgrade.
> Every other company offers upgrade paths but not Microsoft.
Many companies are moving to a SaaS model. Some, like Adobe and Autodesk, don't sell perpetual licenses at all. For engineering software you've always had to pay maintenance fees.
> Had I known earlier they don't care about small devs I would have bought something else.
Community edition is free for individuals and five licenses for small companies.
I get that you're disappointed that you can't upgrade for a cheaper price, but the perpetual, or standalone, license isn't for people who need upgrades and it says so clearly on the page (which might not have been there when you purschased it though):
"If all you need is the current version of Visual Studio Professional, you can make a one-time standalone license purchase. If you need new versions of Visual Studio Professional, access to Visual Studio Team Services, or have short-term needs then the Visual Studio Professional monthly subscription may be a better option."
Monthly subscription was not available for me in October.
> but the perpetual, or standalone, license isn't for people who need upgrades
This is endemic to Microsoft. Every other software I bought had discounted upgrade options. They also didn't say "hey we release new version in few months and will abandon this one and you will not be able to upgrade"
Maybe I am spoiled by other companies. Microsoft is certainly not small business friendly. Their support also was pathetic. It took them couple of months to say I can't upgrade.
>They also didn't say "hey we release new version in few months and will abandon this one and you will not be able to upgrade"
But preview builds for 2017 were available as early as march 2016, which comined with the prominent no upgrades included notice, should have told you the same thing.
Everyone keeps patting Microsoft on the back for taking the 'step' into opensource, but all I see is the same product rehashed half a dozen times and massive dependence upon MS's ecosystem for development. There's a reason they can pay hundreds of developers to make these products, because they're still making plenty of money, infact, they're probably making more than ever.
The title is misleading as (from my understanding) no Django-specific features are supported. VS2017 'fully supports' Django as well as Flask as well as any other python library.
Looking at the documentation[1] there is a bit of Django specific support, including IntelliSense in Django templates, debugging for Django templates, and some support for manage.py commands.
52 comments
[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 96.0 ms ] threadOtherwise it's pretty good. I actually use both Spyder and PTVS and am unhappy with both. Bad doc rendering in PTVS, no git in Spyder.
Use something like Java or Python, instead.
Anyway, MS don't force you to use their technologies :p
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/python/debuggi...
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14335011
[0]https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/python/install...
VS Mac doesn't support VS extensions. And a lot of other VS things.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14308754
Basically, it's not a full port, and it's probably not ever going to be, but they're trying to gradually make them more alike in terms of features.
In that regard they had to start somewhere, and as such, .NET was the obvious candidate for a first release.
See https://www.visualstudio.com/vs/community/
Doesn't really change the point about being cheap, but a business with $1 million in profit is way more fun than a business with $1 million in revenue.
Check the license and usage here https://www.visualstudio.com/vs/community/
You don't have to, but you are saying that you need to upgrade.
> Every other company offers upgrade paths but not Microsoft.
Many companies are moving to a SaaS model. Some, like Adobe and Autodesk, don't sell perpetual licenses at all. For engineering software you've always had to pay maintenance fees.
> Had I known earlier they don't care about small devs I would have bought something else.
Community edition is free for individuals and five licenses for small companies.
I get that you're disappointed that you can't upgrade for a cheaper price, but the perpetual, or standalone, license isn't for people who need upgrades and it says so clearly on the page (which might not have been there when you purschased it though):
"If all you need is the current version of Visual Studio Professional, you can make a one-time standalone license purchase. If you need new versions of Visual Studio Professional, access to Visual Studio Team Services, or have short-term needs then the Visual Studio Professional monthly subscription may be a better option."
https://www.visualstudio.com/vs/pricing/
> but the perpetual, or standalone, license isn't for people who need upgrades
This is endemic to Microsoft. Every other software I bought had discounted upgrade options. They also didn't say "hey we release new version in few months and will abandon this one and you will not be able to upgrade"
Maybe I am spoiled by other companies. Microsoft is certainly not small business friendly. Their support also was pathetic. It took them couple of months to say I can't upgrade.
But preview builds for 2017 were available as early as march 2016, which comined with the prominent no upgrades included notice, should have told you the same thing.
https://www.visualstudio.com/vs/pricing/
[1]https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/visualstudio/python/templat...
Anyone with experience with both willing to report the pros and cons? Let's assume i already have access to the pro versions of both.