Ask HN: Urbit Sale – will you be buying?

21 points by abstractbeliefs ↗ HN
Urbit ( https://urbit.org/ ), a peer to peer network of personal servers built on a completely new stack. The first sale of Urbit `Stars` (1/64th of the network) has just started, priced at 512 USD.

Have you been following Urbit? What are you thoughts on the sale, and will you be buying in or not?

18 comments

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Unlike e.g. Ethereum back then, this still very much looks like an art project motivated by ideological/political reasons, so 95% chance to fail IMO. That being said the vision is very big. I still bought a star mostly to track it and a bit of FOMO.
Urbit is the most brazenly audacious computer science project on Earth, it's entirely open source, and yet, every time it gets mentioned on the world's most popular forum for programmers, virtually all of the discussion is non-technical.

Who cares about the ideology behind it? Does anyone pick their linux distro based on the maintainer's political blog? "Oh, one of the devs said something in 2007 about immigrants I didn't like, and..." uh huh. What about the insanely ambitious attempt to replace unix, any comments on that?

> Who cares about the ideology behind it? Does anyone pick their linux distro based on the maintainer's political blog?

Yes, people pick Linux distributions based on the maintaining organization's ideology (heck, they pick Linux itself for ideological reasons.)

First, the person above you didn't say anything about caring about the underlying ideology; they said that they cared that the project seemed to them to be an art project designed for ideological purposes and unlikely to succeed as a result.

Second, people definitely do choose their linux distributions based on ideology. The Debian project, in particular, has a very well established ideology. They also choose which distributions they spend money on or donate money to (the relevant comparison to purchasing stars as discussed here) based on ideology.

Third, Urbit is a different category of thing from a Linux distribution. Urbit is a network. A network designed and organized based on a particular principle can impose that principle on the way that people on the network act, interact, and relate on the network in ways that a Linux distribution cannot. I am not certain whether this accurately describes Urbit. Statements from the project and its developers have suggested to me that this has been a goal, but they may have retreated from that since.

>A network designed and organized based on a particular principle can impose that principle on the way that people on the network act, interact, and relate on the network in ways that a Linux distribution cannot. I am not certain whether this accurately describes Urbit. Statements from the project and its developers have suggested to me that this has been a goal, but they may have retreated from that since.

this is certainly the case -- the scarcity of resources (about 4b cryptographic identities called 'planets', along with an associated reputation system) is meant to introduce something like proof-of-stake, where incentives are created that make it more expensive to act in bad faith (trolling[1], spamming) than the bad faith behavior is worth.

this is an interesting read the head developer wrote a few years ago about these subjects: https://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2010/03/future...

[1] 'trolling' in this case would be determined by local 'communities' on the network, and not a central authority a la the current internet (fb, twitter, etc)

> people definitely do choose their linux distributions based on ideology

Sure, sorry, I meant that it's not the norm, not that it never happens ever. My post was unnecessarily argumentative in tone, due to frustration with some past urbit discussions here.

> A network designed and organized based on a particular principle can impose that principle on the way that people on the network act

This is a very abstract point, which may be true in the general sense, but I was talking about Urbit in particular. Consider two assertions:

1. Urbit is so amazing and useful and wonderful that it's reasonable to imagine people all over the world using it every day for decades to come 2. The guy who wrote Urbit is racist/authoritarian/something else, as proven from a close textual analysis of his old blog posts

The point I was ranting about is that it seems like the truth or falsity of those two statements is completely separate, and that the former ought to be a lot more interesting than the latter. I don't think that's proven to be the case.

Background: I'm a decentralization researcher, I quit my job at Twitch to report on decentralized web initiatives full-time, and I'm tracking 200+ projects and protocols like this attempting to remake the web. Urbit is near the top of the list of ones I think will work.

Urbit has the most coherent vision for why decentralized computing is necessary across all other initiatives in this space. They understand the history behind topics of trust, identity, and governance in building new software platforms, in ways that other initiatives (especially blockchain-based communities) sorely lack, or are unable to communicate effectively.

Compare to Ethereum, which has a similar scale of ambition, but with a far less trustworthy and transparent leadership team, who has (despite these problems) still managed to raise huge interest in a currency with a several-billion-dollar market cap. If you just spend time reading Urbit docs vs Ethereum docs, I believe the difference in clarity of vision will become apparent to you.

I bought two stars and am considering buying a third.

I'm curious, what are the others at the top of your list? IPFS?
IPFS is certainly one of the top initiatives, and Juan Benet in particular will be involved in whatever future internet architcture takes shape. I need to investigate them more myself before I endorse the full vision, though.
Where is your report published?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe a star is 1/65536th of the network, not 1/64th. Perhaps you meant to say 1/64k?
well, they sold 1024 stars -- 1/64th of 65536
I bought one star. I've been following the project for a few years and still have mixed feelings about it. The idea is awesome and the tech seems really interesting, but I always hit a roadblock with the intentionally opaque naming of things.
I was interested in bitcoin before it got really big but I was convinced by others that it was going to just fizzle out. Now FOMO is driving me to want to buy a star but it's much I'm less confident in this then I was of bitcoin.
I'm in the same boat. I heard about Bitcoin in the early days too, and didn't get involved because I was convinced it economically couldn't work. Did you buy a star? I missed the sale by a few hours, thanks to my hesitation.
A note for the future, if whoever posts this could please link the actual sales URL, it would help highly confused people. Like me.

There was no sale link anywhere on the site I could find (and I was there in the throes of the sale).

There was no mention of a need for an invite code to purchase a star. Or how to get one.

Even reading the documentation I'm still very hazy how a star is used other than real estate. There's no documentation about how a star code (assuming its a thing) is redeemed or associated or used.

The price points seem reasonable for the scale of what they're building. I hope they put some of the profit into better marketing and explanation coverage.

It was sale.urbit.org but you needed a ticket. Submit your email address to get on the list for future notifications, including tickets to future sales, although they say the next one will be a public auction. What you get when you buy is a number which can be submitted to urbit in exchange for the key that proves ownership of a certain star, meaning you would be able to sign messages that other planets/stars would trust as having come from the owner of that star. Stars are identical to planets except that they are also able to issue tickets for planets. So the point of owning a star is that you can give away or (in some future scenario where anyone wants to buy them) sell planets. For now, you can get a planet just by emailing the devs and asking for one.

People have complained about the documentation forever, but I think it's just hard to explain what it is, because it is pretty novel. If you chew through some of the available stuff and have further questions, reply to me, I'm as likely to give a useful answer as anyone.

I bought 2 stars, mostly because of my Fear Of Missing Out. My understanding of urbit is very superficial.