Ask HN: How to stop overthinking everything in my life?
I am a mid 20s white male who has been afforded immense privilege in life. I am outwardly extremely confident and able to get what I want. I have dozens of opportunities in front of me, more than 99% of people. Yet instead of being grateful for these opportunities, I feel like I do not deserve them. As a result, I frequently begin an endeavor, see some initial success, but then self destruct just prior to an inflection point, thus destroying any chance of future success.
This happens everywhere. School, athletics, relationships, businesses. Because I feel I do not deserve what I have, I self-destruct before I can take anything to the next level. It seems to be a subconscious attempt at equalizing my reality with what I feel I deserve.
I believe the cause of this is overthinking everything. I am analytical and often overzealous in my choice of analysis. I feel like I am observing myself from the third person. What I see, I don't like.
How do I get over this self-loathing? Do I need to stop overthinking? Is that even possible? Do I just need to accept this state of mind and seize control of it?
62 comments
[ 5.1 ms ] story [ 129 ms ] threadJust do it, it's a google search away from you.
If I were the OP, I would tackle the problem by scheduling more time every week being active, and being social. Fortunately, it sounds like he has plenty of opportunities to do so, so it's just a matter of consciously spending less time alone.
It's difficult to have a “dark night of the soul” while you're chatting with somebody in a steakhouse, or tossing a frisbee around.
Current NHS figures suggest about 60% success rate, and that's on a bare-knuckle minimum provision model.
'Over thinking' and 'self destruction' sound like symptoms of depression/anxiety. If that is the case, you will eventually have to seek out a professional for diagnosis and treatment. Importantly, you can't rule out mental health issues without consulting a professional, especially when these problematic patterns of behaviour are present in so many areas of your life. If you do have a mental health issue then it's likely that you won't be able to fix the issues you're experiencing without first treating it, which is why consulting a professional is such an important step.
Independently of the existence of possible mental health issues, a psychologist will be able to equip you with tools (cbt etc.) to facilitate the changes that you want to make, and support you through them.
As a mid 20's white-male who has experienced a somewhat similar situation, I wish that I had sought out professional help sooner. If I had, repairing the damage caused by un-diagnosed major depressive disorder and social anxiety would have been a much easier task.
In my 20s.. I thought too much. So much I'd get lost in there. So much I'd have entire relationships with women before even knowing their name. SO much that I would create scenarios and play out the entire thing in my head before it happened. So much that I barely slept and when I did, it was the only peace I had.
I was in college and felt like a "grownup" yet not. I had to work, I had to go to class. There were things I just had to do, but what constitutes being "an adult"? I wrote about it here: http://www.confessionsoftheprofessions.com/children-pretendi...
Anyways, you are in your 20s. I am now in my 30s and I wish someone would have given me advice that I could've understood then. But this might be something of what I would have told myself:
You are still exploring life and it is perfectly okay to make mistakes -- so long as you do no serious harm to anyone or yourself. You get this life to live. That's it. There are many other people who won't make it past their 20s. I hate to say it, but it could be your close friends. Mortality is all too common and all of us can and will die.
Do not take any moment for granted and just teach yourself to be aware of your surrounding and other people. Don't always talk about yourself. Listen to what others have to say. Travel. Learn how to take care of yourself (some exercise and good eating required) because you get one body to live in. Don't think about it. Just do it. Know that you will fail at a lot, but you will also learn a lot. You will have successes in many of the things you do as well.
Try to call your parents at least two or three times a week. Try to keep in touch with your siblings at least two or three times a week. Go visit if you can. Go explore. Volunteer for a few months and do some good in a community. Go live in another country if you can. Teach English. Get a degree in something. Study something you want to know more about. Don't be afraid to ask any girl you want out. What's the worst she is going to do? Tell you no. She's doing you a favor. When looking to be with someone, it is not all about sex. Find someone who makes you happy and who is pleasant to be around. Find your best friend. Here is the worst part of the advice: Don't look for it. Don't look for her. Just be aware that a girl you like could be her. Just enjoy your life. She'll come eventually. Go on a few dates and don't be afraid of letting her know what you are looking for. You need to experience the opposite sex to know what you like and what you don't like. To do this, you need to learn how to become comfortable with yourself and develop a sense of humor and you need to become comfortable with being around people, especially the opposite sex.
Make sure you pick up skills that are valuable for the next decade or two. College only helps you get so far, but you're going to find out that you aren't special when you and everyone else have a degree in Liberal Arts or English. Sure, you'll get a job, but it'll probably be a job you don't like. So pick up a hobby and learn about something you like and start thinking about what you could do to help others that will also help pay the bills. Learn how to talk to people. Learn how to interview. Learn the difference between telling people something and telling them what they want to hear.
Coming back to the point about don't get greedy and do your best: be fair with pricing, if you decide to ever charge people, be fair with people. It is also okay to donate to charity or help out a homeless person or people who are struggling. Don't do it to the point where you become homeless yourself or forget to take care of yourself, but go talk to a person who is "down and out" and understand what happened. Ev...
Learn what bullshit is. Bullshit is something anything or anyone that is working against your goals or general happiness.
Once you see some bullshit DON'T tolerate it. Remove it from your life as much as possible. You only have the ability to have one thought or feeling at a time. Do you really want that thought to be on bullshit?
2) Think about what your goal is in life.
3) Persue this goal with all of your might.
Bonus: Start improve your body. It's hard but you see progress that you earned. (NO team sport, something you will achieve out of your own strength and willpower not relying on anybody else)
What your emotions are getting conflicted on is the idea of learning your real limitations. Because, despite appearances of competence and opportunity, you've surely got flaws that would prevent you from doing something someone else would find easy. One of them is manifest right now, in that you're bailing before the commitments get too intense. This happens within youth fairly often, even when no graceful exit is possible and it's the rationally correct decision to stick with a commitment. Other people, already people younger than you, even, have gone and made hugely consequential decisions without thinking twice. Some of them are dead, so maybe you're doing all right.
What an older person tends to figure out is that they are only getting more limited and closer to an end as time goes on, which makes them more motivated to focus on relative strengths and weaknesses. They will exit the situation when it plays to their weaknesses and saps their energy, and stay in and struggle when it fits their strengths and motivations.
It's hard to see, though, what you are doing when you're living it every day. Somehow you ended up on HN. But why HN, and not anywhere else? Do you know how you got here, or why you stay here?
These are things you can pick apart by journaling, collecting data, and trying to challenge your internal narratives. The "why" of what you do never really gets answered(because it's philosophical, hence it never reaches an end), but if you're occupying your time with struggles that you feel are worthwhile to you personally, and not just escaping forever, that's probably a good life.
Who put that idea in your head?
Stop right there.
You've been brainwashed by SJWs in the so-called 'educational' establishment into believing that you somehow have some magic 'white, male privilege'.
It's utter nonsense. They've been psychologically abusing you your whole life, harping on about 'racism' and 'sexism' and 'diversity' and 'tolerance', while condemning you for the color of your skin, your gender, and tricking you into buying their schtick.
Get redpilled. Read Vox Day's _SJWs Alway Lie_. Reject the SJW message of hate for white males!
People are not born equal. This is a fact. However, that does not mean that you should judge their choices by that birth. True equality is judging every person individually by their own set of choices, not by their birth.
The overwhelming desire to help others, coupled with feeling responsible for the way that others feel at all times, are codependent traits.
The interplay between people with these conditions on the internet has turned into what most recognize as "SJW-ism" -- BPDs make ridiculous and unreasonable demands relating to their condition, and the codependents enable and validate them.
Congregating on the internet and using social media to attack and belittle both themselves and others is a way for people with BPD to cope. What they really need is dialectical behavior therapy, but it is extremely difficult to convince people with BPD to seek treatment, since the vast majority of them refuse to believe that there is anything wrong with them.
Some will have fleeting bouts of clarity, where they'll accept that they have issues and will consider and maybe even begin treatment, but most of them will stop attending sessions and cease their medication.
http://archive.is/3rYqa
You can safely ignore the post.
If you want information about personality disorder you'd be better off reading "Meeting the Challenge, Making the Difference". http://www.emergenceplus.org.uk/news-from-emergence/507-meet...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSM-5
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_B_personality_disorder...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Cluster_C_personality...
Please educate yourself before you accuse me about knowing "nothing". Also, please don't tell me that you consider the DSM-5 unreliable.
While arguing it's unfair to paint white men do broadly, you immediately go on to paint "sjws" the same way. Tolerance is not a "schtick".
Then you go on to mention theredpill, the reddit community that treats women like objects. That is not a solution for OP.
So I totally agree. Be proud of who you are man. Stop listening to the media bullshit. Be a nice guy, dont discriminate, help your fellow people, and live a great life.
With no exception, these shows are about: that social justice is wrong, that demographics should keep a white majority, that the "Western civilization" is under attack, that abuses over minorities were acceptable and even somehow even some kind of favor to them, that climate change is fake, etc.
Mostly it's about finding excuses to maintain a status quo that largely benefits people who are already doing fine, which in majority are white people due to having had a headstart.
All of that supported by "facts", which is alt-right jargon for heavily biased cherry-picking.
I am very disappointed that HN users upvoted this guy. I thought this was a place for people who actually had some critical thinking.
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I'm not outwardly extremely confident, but have been able to mostly get what I want. I've started a lot of things and messed up my fair share. It's past 2am, I'm in my workspace/studio jamming on personally fulfilling work with an amazing 40-week pregnant wife and four year old sleeping two floors above me.
What does self-destruct mean to you? Self loathing? I am genuinely wondering if lack of clarity, doubt and direction in your life are the real issues. If so, I'd like to say that every year since my 20s I've felt the same... and, I'm inwardly extremely confident about where I am in life. Time heals, maybe it's clarity through maturity. Perhaps a mentor would have been useful. If, like myself, you haven't had the fortune of one then seeking someone to talk to, a friend / colleague / professional, would be beneficial.
Training is divided in two parts: training camp (called "the centre") and service time. The training camp is the hard part, in theory. The first two weeks you don’t have time to think or breathe for the matter.
A high ranking official told me late in my service time, that it’s a tactic to avoid psychological breakdown from people who are not adequate.
There are of course suicides every now and then[1]. But all in all, I must say that it works wonders.
[1] The level of psychological pressure in the army depends on many factors and varies greatly.
The practice is about concentration and mindfulness[0]. It can calm your mind up to a degree when there are little thoughts present but you can't force yourself into this state daily, especially in the first years of practicing.
[0]: http://www.vipassana.com/meditation/mindfulness_in_plain_eng...
So, how do I deal with shit? Mostly I don't, to be honest. But whats been keeping me sane is this:
1 )Work towards a goal that you know will enable you to give back. If it's donating to charity or volunteering work, its this crazy thing that happens when you start really thinking of giving back to people with less with no expectation of getting anything in return.
And:
2) Meditation. Being able to view your thoughts as thoughts and nothing more. Learning to become mindful of whats currently around you and how to appreciate it, especially yourself.
Hope this helps. More than keen to chat about it if you want.
Chaos and disorder.
Not sure what happened exactly, but there was one point where I couldn't anymore.
Looking back, I think what really was a breakthrough for me was journaling. First thing in the morning and right after opening my eyes, in free form w/o correcting my self. Just letting it out.
With time your thought becomes more precise and there comes clarity. I've started picking patterns in my way of thinking, my habits and behaviors – pretty much in all aspects of my life. I've started tracking other aspects of my life, which led to other insights and finding in a very quantified way what works and does not works for me.
Still, you're here on HN. I'm pretty sure that despite everything you go through now, there is something internally which does keeps you on the right track in the grand scheme of the things. There is exploration and exploitation. The time will show.
I would also highly recommend you checking Dr. Jordan Peterson's lectures "Maps of Meaning" on YouTube and his "Self Authoring" program.
In this world we don't get what we deserve, we get what we take. People don't deserve divorce, traffic accidents, diseases yet it happens all the time. While you are overthinking, your life is ticking away. Think about the things that matter. Think different.
Far better to succeed, be happy, and give back in some way than to never achieve or never be happy out of some (IMO) mis-guided Stoicism.
Society doesn't advance by having all the fed people voluntarily starve.
It's no bad thing to experience some bad times and feel these feelings from time to time - what I've found with myself is when I get to this point I have an automatic "fuck this shit" response where I, for example, move to Japan to work full time on startup ideas. Sometimes when stuck in a rut there is no harm at that point saying "fuck it" I'm just going to make a big exciting change and see what happens.
Another example; I can't even swim really (more flailing, should probably learn) and I was in the Andaman Islands on holiday and everyone was diving and I basically panicking when I put my head in the water with a snorkel on, what was I thinking signing up for Discover Scuba. So after managing to get over that initial fear, I ended up signing up for the full PADI and then did my advanced on the same trip because I loved it so much. I cleared my mask and swam sharing oxygen at 25 meters (while looking at the under water equivalent of Avatar). That fear turned into pure excitement for life.
So if you want to be less in your analysis mode - my advice - get out of what you are doing now and make a big change, whatever is (and even if it doesn't work out) while you are trying life will taste a bit sweeter.
What I have found to be the difference between individuals who are able to get out of this state and those who continue to struggle is an incredibly strong sense of self identity. Having a personal anecdote that is unique, filled with novel experiences, and ultimately ends with a call to action for accomplishing social good is key.
My suggestions:
1. Travel and live with communities that have very little. Experience their traditions, families, frustrations, and joys.
2. Think deeply about your purpose and whether American individualism can really continue to provide you with the life you want to live. It very well may, but it is an important question to ask.
3. Go for walks by yourself and narrate your personal story under your breath. Imagine the good you want to accomplish and pretend you're being asked why you do what you do. The more experiences you have the more cohesive your story will be and the more confidently you will be able to take charge of your purpose/destiny/life. Also, journal.
4. Always find ways to give back. Give your last dollar to the person on the street. If you volunteer do it with kids, perhaps at a refugee center. Cook dinner for your parents and siblings when you're home, or wake up early to surprise them with breakfast.
5. Surround yourself with people who are deeply passionate about what they do and haven't become lost themselves. I live in SF for a few months every year and have found these individuals nearly impossible to find in the city. Search elsewhere.
Good luck. You're thinking about these things and are clearly on the right path. Much love!
I always find it sad that the most popular "influencers" have advocated for things I dont personally care about (sports and music careers, all kinds of "reality" shows) while there are so few popular charismatic matematicans, physicists, programmers, biologists, doctors when I personally know many people who are very passionate and motivating in these fields.
Sometimes I go to http://syria.liveuamap.com wondering when will it end and will it ever. I suppose that as long as there are these redpill people who found an excuse to only care about themselves that we will be stuck in this situation.
I think the problem is that since most of us are finding out life has no inherent meaning (unless you consider endless reproduction a meaning) we are stuggling to find a reason to do anything. If you are underpriviledged you are still struggling to survive so you have that to think about and spend most of your time on but we who are in countries where 5% need to work to feed the other 95% and who arent the unluckiest ones in those countries are having issues finding "meaning" in things we are doing.
I'm pretty sure our brains aren't meant to work in these conditions so I hope machines remove as ASAP and continue doing their own thing. I always remember the "transcendence" outer layer of Vernor Vinges universe where life evolves so far as to either destroy itself or reach some state of thought unimaginable to us right now.
I thing the best thing ever is that we will eventually all die and all will stop mattering. I really hope theres no heaven and hell and all that shabang with the Flying Spaghetti Monster and all so that actually we have to exist forever and bother ourselves with these useless questions.
Self loathing is just another one of those problems. Someone depressed is also that way. Like a cigarette that they cannot ignore, of all the things they could be doing, they choose this -- the one thing that is expensive and that can kill you and that will even get you dirty looks nowadays.
> I am outwardly extremely confident
Why did you put "outwardly"? Because you're not confident. So you are being honest with yourself, in that you're not writing lies. Except, why would "outwardly" matter? You're trying to make excuses as to why you shouldn't be feeling the way you feel. But that's the problem. Emotions defy logic, because they precede them. And an excuse is something that deflects blame but otherwise does nothing. It's a reason for inaction.
> overthinking everything
This is not related. It's your self-loathing that's got you down. Maybe you even have mild depression. Either way, that's the problem, and not anything else.
The simplest answer to your problem is love. You need to learn to love yourself. Culturally Eastern culture can be especially undermining of an individuals healthy mental image of themselves. The burdens of society and of parental expectations weighs heavy, and the environment is that of anxiety and judgementalism, and not that of love and forgiveness. But this pattern exists in the West also. I'm guessing you had strict parents?
As gh1 here has mentioned, having a routine or creating ways of taking your mind off yourself is one way to deal with self-loathing. Being immersed in a passion project can do it also, like a startup. If you're too busy, you have no time for hating, even yourself. It's also what people do after bad breakups.
But you won't have time for love either, and maybe that's what you need. Some don't waste any time after breakups, and choose to quickly move on.
I used to self-loath. But now I couldn't be happier with myself. And it really boils down to the realization that there is absolutely nothing wrong with me. All my imperfections are common. I am just like everyone else. My problems are boring. And it's like you said. I can get what I want. Then what's the problem? The only thing that got in my way, and that is getting in your way, is that self image. It's how you think of yourself that alters what you do with yourself. That's the only thing getting in your way. And THAT TOO is an incredibly common and boring problem! It might be personal and in your face, but objectively speaking, tons of people have similar issues and you are not flawed or hate-worthy in any unique or special way. You just have low self esteem.
It also helped to understand why I was that way. Turns out, there were self loathing people around me. Japanese society didn't help either. But seeing those influences as what they were helped protect myself. Thinking is done with cues. Much like writing prompts, there are things that get us going (like this post on HN does for me). So understanding and counteracting those loathing cues is also what it's about. What makes you hate yourself?
But overthinking is not going to help. Any thinking is not going to help. It's a symptom of the problem. Like wanting that cigarette or wanting to gamble or wanting to drink. You're wanting to think so you can loath.
The cure is with maintaining your emotional health and making that a priority. You may need a change in environment, a change in acquaintances, and even a change in diet. But what you need to do is stop hating you...
Break the chains and own your life. Do good for the world and it doesn't matter your background.
You need to grow a small IDGAF portion in your brain as well and do what you want to do, not what others want you to do.
You seem like a good person so I'm confident you will do net-positive things, so cast the BS guilt aside, own it, and go make things happen.