I was a PHB in a Spanish internet company, now unemployed. I have some cool ideas to implement in the Web but have little programming background and I'm 36. Is too late for me to join the party?
Ideas is what matters the most in my opinion... go for it, buy a book and get your hands dirty. Another option would be to leave the technical stuff to a co-founder.
Don't see why not, depends I guess if your unemployed and need to get employment/ make money quick or if you have time to really get into what your doing and learn programming.
36 years, count 5 years to become proficient, it remains something like 25 years to enjoy your new expertise.
On the other hand, if it's for starting a company, perhaps that your skills would be better used elsewhere than in learning a full new world, and so taking a developer with you may be the best.
It's taken me about 5 years to feel comfortable enough to put myself out there to the world as a competent programmer. You have to want it, I can't tell you how many all nighters I have put in researching problems, trying coding patterns, etc. Find a bunch of proverbial nails and start hammering away.
The only requirement is that you do have mindset suitable for programming. I've seen quite a few people struggle with programming who don't have an inherent logical thinking cap on their head!
If you've owned a computer for the last six months at least, and haven't already learned at least some programming then I'd suggest you probably don't have a particular aptitude for it - give it a go anyway though, and if you enjoy it then don't stop. Please don't just do it for the money though - all the worst programmers I've met fall into that category, and none of the best.
On the other hand, web programming is exceptionally easy...
On the other hand, web programming is exceptionally easy...
No, it's not. The only thing easy in programming is writing trivial examples and small stuff like that. Writing a non-trivial program that has to be used by real users and is expected to have as few bugs as possible is not easy at all.
Compared to non-web programming, the tools are better, more well developed and the languages/formats require substantially less knowledge. This is all well documented.
"If you've owned a computer for the last six months at least, and haven't already learned at least some programming then I'd suggest you probably don't have a particular aptitude for it"
I don't think that's been true since the 1980's or so. There are so many things to do with a computer that writing programs might be something that takes years to get to, and not all systems make it all that obvious or easy how to start. The days when your computer had only a handful of programs and a BASIC so you could write your own are long gone.
One of my colleagues is a sixty year old PHP developer who was a nurse in the army until he was 45, decided to get a degree from Open University and took it from there.
I'm 37 and studying with the Open University. With full-time (non-technical) work and a family, the time demands can be quite high (so high that I don't have time to work on my own project) but I think the benefits of a structured education can't be overstated.
It depends on a combination of factors: background education, personal inclinations, innate abilities, and so on.
I'd say it's not too late, but it takes time. You can trade your existing experience against the native wit/speed of the youngsters, but it still takes time to learn to program.
Especially to learn to program for someone else, by which I mean robust and comprehensive enough to be used by people you don't know, in ways you'll have difficulty imagining.
So it depends a lot on both you and your ideas. Are you willing to work as hard as a founder has to, but on someone else's ideas? I would recommend starting to learn to program, but floating your ideas to some experienced developers as well with the intent of finding someone to work with. If you can do all the business stuff, and are mildly technical, and they can do all the deep technical, and appreciate the business stuff, then you can have a formidable partnership.
No. In fact if I had to guess I'd say two founders - one business and one technical might be the median YC company. Even if not, it doesn't seem like a big outlier given the founders I've met.
Having no technical founders is different. I believe that's happened only once in YC, and the founders were teaching themselves to be technical people at the time.
It really depends on what you want to do. If you just want to see your ideas done, but don't care that much about programming itself, then you would probably be better off teaming up with a good programmer and providing whatever skills you have that he or she doesn't.
If, on the other hand, you feel you're really interested in programming then, by all means, go ahead and take the plunge. However, bear in mind that it will take you more or less 10 years to become an expert. It doesn't really have anything to do with age, it's just how much time people need to get excellent at something.
If you feel undecided about whether you're really interested in coding or not, give it a shot and find out. If you really like coding, you'll know it.
If order to have the right mindset for programming, you must replace "some" with "one" and "implement" with "build".
In other words:
1. Is there something that you just have to have?
2. Do you absolutely have to build the first version yourself?
If you can answer both questions "yes", then, by all means, get started. Just start building something. Resources are right at your fingertips. You don't need college, classes, or special training, just a burning desire to learn what you need in order to build what you have to build.
If, on the other hand, either of your answers was "no", then you probably should stay a manager and assemble a team/project to pursue your ideas.
Either way, age has nothing to do with it. All that matters is what you really want. And the only one who can determine that is you.
I disagree: I'm a programmer; I have "some" ideas and I "implement" them. Works for me.
I am also a programmer and it also works for me.
But grandparent was addressed to OP, who has already self-identified as a PHB, a totally different audience.
When another programmer talks about "implementing some things", I know exactly what he's talking about. He's going to dig down at his terminal and make things happen.
But when a PHB says the same words, it has totally different meaning. Why? Because these are "fluffy" words which infer different things from different sources. A PHB "implementing some things" probably means project plans and meetings, not coding in the trenches.
I think that the most important thing for OP to do is to stop thinking like a PHB and start thinking like a programmer. In his case, this means focusing on specific details and digging more than 1 level below the surface, 2 things at which PHBs are notoriously weak. If he continues to think "some" and "implement", he'll never shed his PHB skin and grow the new programmer persona he'll need. That's all.
I started learning when I was 12, and the reason was to create Mortal Kombat 4[12yr olds don't have any concept of copyright]. I think just trying to implement it led me to learn the language[pascal at the time]. If I was to start over now at 26 or even 36 for the first time, it would be much much easier and faster in terms of understanding. Although my mind might not be as agile as when I was 12, I have experienced much more of the world now. What this means is I can make more associations than a 12 year old. I have more resources. I used to have to steal a glance at my sister's Dietel and Dietel Pascal programming book. My first c++ compiler was a bootleg and had to use web resources to learn. Kids don't have any money as an adult you do, and you can afford to go to classes and buy books. You know more people as an adult[only had my sister]. You can ask any number of questions to your network of hackers until you grasp the concept.
Not if you love the act of programming. You will know when you've programmed for a couple of months. You can teach yourself but in the end you really have to enjoy the process of programming. Helps to find out which concentration in programming you are good at: databases, games, engineering, etc...
Yeah, be sure to cut-n-paste as much code from random blogs and forums as possible. Don't worry about understanding or thinking... Google is all you need!
It's never too late.
Since you have interest in implementing ideas on the web, you are already on to an easier path with the many frameworks available.
Get started with building your mockups and slowly get the functionalities in when you are finding your way with the programming framework.
No it's not. It's never too late. Pick up a book, write your first "Hello World!" program, and go from there. Never feel insecure about your age. Never try to convince yourself you have knowledge you don't. Take it one day at a time and one step at a time. Don't leap ahead. Always move from the known to the unknown. Do what you love. Love what you do. If you love programming, it doesn't matter how old you are, you'll get good at it and be able to deliver value to someone who will pay you. Best of luck!!
Both partnering with an experienced developer , and outsourcing to a low cost country can offer a better route for development (if done well), and could really help your ideas to succeed.
If you want to build businesses out of your ideas , you'll have enough to do and learn.
76 comments
[ 4.8 ms ] story [ 142 ms ] threadYou might get a leg up by choosing a technical co-founder that is willing to be your mentor on your programming education.
On the other hand, if it's for starting a company, perhaps that your skills would be better used elsewhere than in learning a full new world, and so taking a developer with you may be the best.
speaking of all nighters.
The only requirement is that you do have mindset suitable for programming. I've seen quite a few people struggle with programming who don't have an inherent logical thinking cap on their head!
On the other hand, web programming is exceptionally easy...
No, it's not. The only thing easy in programming is writing trivial examples and small stuff like that. Writing a non-trivial program that has to be used by real users and is expected to have as few bugs as possible is not easy at all.
If thats not easy, what is?
I don't think that's been true since the 1980's or so. There are so many things to do with a computer that writing programs might be something that takes years to get to, and not all systems make it all that obvious or easy how to start. The days when your computer had only a handful of programs and a BASIC so you could write your own are long gone.
Never too late.
I'd say it's not too late, but it takes time. You can trade your existing experience against the native wit/speed of the youngsters, but it still takes time to learn to program.
Especially to learn to program for someone else, by which I mean robust and comprehensive enough to be used by people you don't know, in ways you'll have difficulty imagining.
So it depends a lot on both you and your ideas. Are you willing to work as hard as a founder has to, but on someone else's ideas? I would recommend starting to learn to program, but floating your ideas to some experienced developers as well with the intent of finding someone to work with. If you can do all the business stuff, and are mildly technical, and they can do all the deep technical, and appreciate the business stuff, then you can have a formidable partnership.
After all, PG recommends having a co-founder ...
Having no technical founders is different. I believe that's happened only once in YC, and the founders were teaching themselves to be technical people at the time.
If, on the other hand, you feel you're really interested in programming then, by all means, go ahead and take the plunge. However, bear in mind that it will take you more or less 10 years to become an expert. It doesn't really have anything to do with age, it's just how much time people need to get excellent at something.
If you feel undecided about whether you're really interested in coding or not, give it a shot and find out. If you really like coding, you'll know it.
Programmer thinking: cool, ideas, Web
PHB speak: some, implement
If order to have the right mindset for programming, you must replace "some" with "one" and "implement" with "build".
In other words:
1. Is there something that you just have to have?
2. Do you absolutely have to build the first version yourself?
If you can answer both questions "yes", then, by all means, get started. Just start building something. Resources are right at your fingertips. You don't need college, classes, or special training, just a burning desire to learn what you need in order to build what you have to build.
If, on the other hand, either of your answers was "no", then you probably should stay a manager and assemble a team/project to pursue your ideas.
Either way, age has nothing to do with it. All that matters is what you really want. And the only one who can determine that is you.
I am also a programmer and it also works for me.
But grandparent was addressed to OP, who has already self-identified as a PHB, a totally different audience.
When another programmer talks about "implementing some things", I know exactly what he's talking about. He's going to dig down at his terminal and make things happen.
But when a PHB says the same words, it has totally different meaning. Why? Because these are "fluffy" words which infer different things from different sources. A PHB "implementing some things" probably means project plans and meetings, not coding in the trenches.
I think that the most important thing for OP to do is to stop thinking like a PHB and start thinking like a programmer. In his case, this means focusing on specific details and digging more than 1 level below the surface, 2 things at which PHBs are notoriously weak. If he continues to think "some" and "implement", he'll never shed his PHB skin and grow the new programmer persona he'll need. That's all.
No matter your age, to learn code is not done over night. focus on getting things done.
my 2cts... im older than you but i started to code in early 80's :)
A new free online school for learning Ruby is just getting started, Ruby Mendicant University: http://blog.majesticseacreature.com/quick-rmu-status-update
Get your entrance exam in by Sunday and you've got a shot at being a part of the first round of sessions.
Get yourself to build stuff and enjoy!
It worked for phpBB and Wordpress...
Get started with building your mockups and slowly get the functionalities in when you are finding your way with the programming framework.
If you want to build businesses out of your ideas , you'll have enough to do and learn.