The article indicates that he has data from both pornhub and google. The interview questions jump between the two, but the questions about porn are mostly based on the pornhub data.
One thing I'm curious about is that the article implies he has demographic information (sex, income, etc) about the searchers and I don't know how google/pornhub would know that.
I would imagine the majority of searches are anonymous except for IP and whatever the browser gives up. But maybe he's only looking at logged-in data?
I work at Yahoo (er, Verizon). We absolutely do not correlate logged-in and logged-out data. I am going to assume the same for Google.
Regardless, based on things like OS and IP, I understand how you could infer, say, an income range from that, but how precise could it be?
But even assuming google/pornhub has identified me based on my browser fingerprint, how do they know my income level? I've never given that info to Google, nor filled it out on any surveys, warranty cards, etc that I can recall. Maybe I'm not typical and people freely give up this information?
> Regardless, based on things like OS and IP, I understand how you could infer, say, an income range from that, but how precise could it be?
A simple geoip query is pretty accurate when it comes to placing my neighborhood, which is already a fairly big indicator of income level I believe. And all the laptop advertisements google is showing me because I looked up my laptop recently show they know plenty enough about my shopping habits to make some fairly accurate guesses about my demographics, I'd wager.
So basically if Google treated shopping the same way it treats porn, it wouldn't have been hit by that massive EU fine. I.e. stay out of recommending / promoting results itself.
>For example, I am certain a large number of men are more attracted to overweight women than skinny women but try to date skinny women to impress their friends and family members.
That's quite a leap there Seth Stephens-Davidowitz.
This neglects the porn-as-spectacle aspect of entertainment value extracted by viewers of pornography.
But "large number" is a poorly defined qualifier.
10,000 individuals interested in an odd combination of diaper play involving amputees could be considered a "large number" (more than you might expect) but is handily dwarfed by three quarters of a billion vanilla viewers looking for consensual sex in the missionary position.
Meanwhile, gore and racism searches do not, a sociopathic Nazi, make. How does one learn about reality, without investigating it?
Everyone gets curious about how genitals manage to escape the undercarriage of a 450 lb. individual, just to understand how they manage to wipe after completing a bowel movement. The best source of insight into that kind of curiosity is satisfied by locating and viewing fetish pornography.
I like larger women. There I said it. I've dated, married, etc. My dating with skinny women never lasted long. I was "Skinny" back in those days. I've gained quite a bit in ten years.
not that it proves much overall, but the porn i masturbate to actually has little to do with what i enjoy sexually with a live woman. i'm sure i'm not the only one
> I think porn is a pretty good measure of people’s sexual fantasies, even if they never act on them.
I like watching Jason Bourne movies but that doesn't mean I have a fantasy of being a chronically embattled amnesiac clandestine operator engaged in half a dozen or so protracted car chases a week.
Different people have different criteria for their entertainment choices. Some just go for e.g. comedy value. Others seek something that resonates with them.
Since you started with movie anecdata - while I'm not particularly fond of Bourne movies, I watch similar works and it is, in part, reflection of my fantasy of being an exceptionally skilled operative solving actually meaningful problems (as opposed to dealing with everyday real-life bullshit).
That said, I didn't apply to a spy school - but does reading up on situational awareness books and articles after binge-watching some spy/action TV series count?
No I don't think so. The analogy was, just because you have a fantasy about being a spy doesn't mean you're willing to act on it and really want to be in life and death situations as often as Jason Bourne.
I am reminded of discussions about how "credit card companies will soon know exactly what we all eat and be able to predict our health because of it" where people rebutted that with "I pay cash for most of my produce at the local farmer's market."
There are people who aren't into porn at all. Porn watching tells you something about people who watch porn. It may tell you nothing at all about actual sex lives. As I understand it, most porn is consumed alone, as a substitute for sex with a partner. What people seek out under such circumstances may not be that representative of what works for them in a relationship.
What source do you have for "most porn is consumed as a substitute for sex with a partner?" That seems like a pretty big assertion and I'm inclined to disagree, but I'd like to hear your argument/reasoning/sources.
I did preface it with "As I understand it." If you have a study or something that says otherwise, feel free to link it. That is my general impression as a human being who reads stuff online and talks to people and has had a sex life.
(Edit: And spent 3.5 years in therapy for childhood sexual abuse and read a TON of books and articles on the subject because of it and, thus, tends to attract weird conversations from all kinds of people of various genders, sexual orientations, etc.)
Do the people you talk to discuss their porn habits? I'd venture to say that much is unknown, beyond sources such as google searches, about most societies porn habits as it's a taboo topic of discussion and research.
Your comments paint with a very broad brush. A counter argument would come in the cases [1][2] of studies that had to be abandoned because of a lack of participants who did not consume it.
>Do the people you talk to discuss their porn habits?
I talk to friends about porn habits, have shared good links with friends before too. The reason I am inclined to believe that most porn is consumed alone is that in my anecdotal experience people broach the subject of watching porn with their SO as though it's a bit taboo, though they will freely admit to watching it alone. And in my own experiences, 99.9% of porn I have consumed has been on my own with only .1% consumed with a partner.
If you're inclined to disagree, how do you see it being consumed? As far as I know from my own experience, the vast majority of porn is consumed alone. I took that to be equivalent with the quoted section because I'm guessing most watching porn would also prefer sex with someone. It seems like your point is semantics to me unless you do truly believe that most porn is not consumed alone, in which case I'm really interested why you think that.
What? I know lots of couples, gay and straight, that watch porn together.
"I'm guessing most watching porn would also prefer sex with someone." That is also a bizarre assumption to make. Sure, perhaps in theory, but a lot of married people watch porn who like to fantasize but have no desire to cheat, lots of people watch porn who definitely don't want to have to deal with all the unfortunate risks (STDs, unwanted pregnancies, crazy exes) of actual sex.
A lot of couples don't watch porn together though. Lots of couples watching porn together does not mean they are the majority.
I don't see how the second in bizarre either. A majority is not the same as all here either. Married people can also watch porn when their partner is not in the mood, even when they would prefer sex. I'm not denying all of the cases you listed exist, only that they are not a majority of porn usage. I feel very confident assuming that there are lots of single people ages 15-30 watching porn alone and who would prefer sex, and that demographic alone would make up 50% at least.
Alone, but not as a substitute for sex. People have partners, porn offers them an experience of being with someone else without cheating or leaving their partner.
Your reply makes little sense. Consuming porn alone does not mean you are not in a relationship. "Sometimes they even do it together" is a weird way to end a suggestion that people are mostly not consuming porn alone. Are they or are they not mostly (more than half the time) consuming it together?
It may be (and I don't know) that a large group of people abstain from porn altogether.
So the preference of people who visit Porn Hub may be just that and it isn't accurate to extrapolate this to society at large.
The percentage of people liking "disgusting" porn for example may be higher among the group of people who habitually view porn. So I'm not sure it's fair to say that this desire translates into the general population.
That's an interesting question and since you mention it, my suspicion is that it's in response to a disagreement with one or more frequent poster's political views some months ago.
I could be wrong about this, but almost every comment I have posted in a popular forum since that time has been down voted (usually this is overridden before long except in cases of comments that probably deserve down-votes which I do occasionally make).
It's not a big deal obviously but I'd like to address the poster(s) doing this (should they exist) and express my contempt for the pettiness of their approach and possibly bring moderator attention should it be warranted.
But in reality, the time it took to type this post is more effort than the action deserves. It is pretty juvenile though assuming I'm seeing correctly.
Maybe it's an artifact of this interview format, but the researcher's conclusions seem a bit undersupported. For example, given the fact that male-male erotica is very common in fanfiction, a female-dominated activity, it would not surprise me if the "excess" gay porn was consumed by straight women, a demographic that we know is attracted to males.
I am that guy who was always in women company (ever since 16, and I am 37 now) and almost never did hit on them. I was just much more interested in what women say, think and do -- compared to 99% of my male peers who were nothing more than testosterone-filled stupid machos.
My evidence is of course anecdotal, but from what I've seen, men have much less desire watching man-to-man action. It's related to many's fear of "turning gay without knowing it" (it's a funny concept but it's extremely common) and very often it's about them looking less manly if they don't show active interest in women... (A lot of men are really weird and kind of stupid in that regard.) That being said, me and many others who aren't ashamed of openly discussing sex are still not interested in gay action simply because it doesn't sexually appeal to us.
As for women, and when I asked them why do they watch gay men porn, many have told me that they believe only a man can know how to please a man to 100% and that they want to better educate themselves on how to be better in their sex life... and they might actually have a point; I've heard from several gay men that no woman's blowjob can ever hold a candle to one that a gay man can do -- I personally believe that to be an exaggeration but I think they're on to something there.
And finally, a lot of girls and women in my life have admitted to being interested in lesbian sex but are afraid due to social stigma and them being extremely vulnerable if they start actively looking for a woman sex partner. My own spouse openly admitted she'd f_ck a woman if she found one willing to do it. Strange thing is I wouldn't perceive that as cheating. I believe my S.O. is correct when she is saying that men think their girls cheat on them only if there's a penis involved.
That, plus hundreds of convos and experiences I've had in my life makes me think that women are innately bisexual while men are, most of the time, hetero-sexual.
This makes Freakonomics sound like Nobel material. Completely vacuous.
He uses the comparison that most men are looking to date skinny women, but that many men are "afraid" to act on their attraction to overweight women.
Yet... nearly 40% of women are considered obese. About half are married or otherwise attached. Who is to say that the population of online daters strongly correlates with these terrified men?
I find it hard to accept his conclusions. For example this:
> Porn featuring overweight women is surprisingly common among men. But the data from dating sites tells us that just about all men try to date skinny women. Many people don’t try to date the people they’re most attracted to.
Porn is a fantasy land. Many people find these stuff attractive because they are far away from their ordinary lives. Looking at the top views of the porn sites you can see strange titles like "Step-daughter punished by angry dad". What does this tell you? Can you really interpret the titles as what people want to do?
Same goes for overweight women. Some of the interest in watching those videos could even come out of hate.
This article is of USA origin, clearly. You guys are strange -- always be like "ohhh we're Homo Sapiens, let's be ashamed of ourselves and let's deny our nature until the end of time!". You're starting to rival the Japanese in self-shaming which really says something.
Can't you just shout "I wanna f_ck any way I like and none of you can do anything about it!" and move on with your life already? Like, forever?
People have all sorts of fantasies and they develop based on one's persona, needs and environment. If your dream is to be nailed in the butthole by a game warden, there are probably millions of people on this planet who not only won't mock you but they'll also indulge you (by being the real thing, or by roleplaying). Same goes for if you can't get a boner without your bed being filled with unicorn plushies, or scr_wing armpits, or whatever floats your boat.
Drop the shame. Enough. Just go down the street smiling at the thought that nobody is oppressing your sexual needs, because in 99% of the time that's the truth.
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[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 112 ms ] threadOne thing I'm curious about is that the article implies he has demographic information (sex, income, etc) about the searchers and I don't know how google/pornhub would know that.
I would imagine the majority of searches are anonymous except for IP and whatever the browser gives up. But maybe he's only looking at logged-in data?
Regardless, based on things like OS and IP, I understand how you could infer, say, an income range from that, but how precise could it be?
But even assuming google/pornhub has identified me based on my browser fingerprint, how do they know my income level? I've never given that info to Google, nor filled it out on any surveys, warranty cards, etc that I can recall. Maybe I'm not typical and people freely give up this information?
A simple geoip query is pretty accurate when it comes to placing my neighborhood, which is already a fairly big indicator of income level I believe. And all the laptop advertisements google is showing me because I looked up my laptop recently show they know plenty enough about my shopping habits to make some fairly accurate guesses about my demographics, I'd wager.
(Disclaimer: Haven't read TFA).
That's quite a leap there Seth Stephens-Davidowitz.
But "large number" is a poorly defined qualifier.
10,000 individuals interested in an odd combination of diaper play involving amputees could be considered a "large number" (more than you might expect) but is handily dwarfed by three quarters of a billion vanilla viewers looking for consensual sex in the missionary position.
Meanwhile, gore and racism searches do not, a sociopathic Nazi, make. How does one learn about reality, without investigating it?
Everyone gets curious about how genitals manage to escape the undercarriage of a 450 lb. individual, just to understand how they manage to wipe after completing a bowel movement. The best source of insight into that kind of curiosity is satisfied by locating and viewing fetish pornography.
Not everyone.
I like watching Jason Bourne movies but that doesn't mean I have a fantasy of being a chronically embattled amnesiac clandestine operator engaged in half a dozen or so protracted car chases a week.
;-)
Since you started with movie anecdata - while I'm not particularly fond of Bourne movies, I watch similar works and it is, in part, reflection of my fantasy of being an exceptionally skilled operative solving actually meaningful problems (as opposed to dealing with everyday real-life bullshit).
That said, I didn't apply to a spy school - but does reading up on situational awareness books and articles after binge-watching some spy/action TV series count?
There are people who aren't into porn at all. Porn watching tells you something about people who watch porn. It may tell you nothing at all about actual sex lives. As I understand it, most porn is consumed alone, as a substitute for sex with a partner. What people seek out under such circumstances may not be that representative of what works for them in a relationship.
(Edit: And spent 3.5 years in therapy for childhood sexual abuse and read a TON of books and articles on the subject because of it and, thus, tends to attract weird conversations from all kinds of people of various genders, sexual orientations, etc.)
Your comments paint with a very broad brush. A counter argument would come in the cases [1][2] of studies that had to be abandoned because of a lack of participants who did not consume it.
[1] http://www.upi.com/Study-stymied-by-lack-of-porn-newbies/401... [2] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2261377/Porn-study-s...
In some cases, yes.
studies that had to be abandoned because of a lack of participants who did not consume it.
Given that my original assertion is that some people are not consumers of porn, your "rebuttal" seems rather strange.
I talk to friends about porn habits, have shared good links with friends before too. The reason I am inclined to believe that most porn is consumed alone is that in my anecdotal experience people broach the subject of watching porn with their SO as though it's a bit taboo, though they will freely admit to watching it alone. And in my own experiences, 99.9% of porn I have consumed has been on my own with only .1% consumed with a partner.
"I'm guessing most watching porn would also prefer sex with someone." That is also a bizarre assumption to make. Sure, perhaps in theory, but a lot of married people watch porn who like to fantasize but have no desire to cheat, lots of people watch porn who definitely don't want to have to deal with all the unfortunate risks (STDs, unwanted pregnancies, crazy exes) of actual sex.
I don't see how the second in bizarre either. A majority is not the same as all here either. Married people can also watch porn when their partner is not in the mood, even when they would prefer sex. I'm not denying all of the cases you listed exist, only that they are not a majority of porn usage. I feel very confident assuming that there are lots of single people ages 15-30 watching porn alone and who would prefer sex, and that demographic alone would make up 50% at least.
That is not actually the case. People in relationships watch porn a lot, and sometimes they even do it together.
So the preference of people who visit Porn Hub may be just that and it isn't accurate to extrapolate this to society at large.
The percentage of people liking "disgusting" porn for example may be higher among the group of people who habitually view porn. So I'm not sure it's fair to say that this desire translates into the general population.
I could be wrong about this, but almost every comment I have posted in a popular forum since that time has been down voted (usually this is overridden before long except in cases of comments that probably deserve down-votes which I do occasionally make).
It's not a big deal obviously but I'd like to address the poster(s) doing this (should they exist) and express my contempt for the pettiness of their approach and possibly bring moderator attention should it be warranted.
But in reality, the time it took to type this post is more effort than the action deserves. It is pretty juvenile though assuming I'm seeing correctly.
> "...that a lot of straight women watch lesbian porn"
Why not a lot straight men that watch gay porn, and more lesbian woman in the closet than you would think?
Or just people who are hyper-sexual?
I'd be interested in understanding the methods used to determine the difference between homosexuality and hyper-sexuality, and simply curious.
But I feel that both of those original statements evoke certain stereotypes, which makes me wonder what biases were applied to the study.
My evidence is of course anecdotal, but from what I've seen, men have much less desire watching man-to-man action. It's related to many's fear of "turning gay without knowing it" (it's a funny concept but it's extremely common) and very often it's about them looking less manly if they don't show active interest in women... (A lot of men are really weird and kind of stupid in that regard.) That being said, me and many others who aren't ashamed of openly discussing sex are still not interested in gay action simply because it doesn't sexually appeal to us.
As for women, and when I asked them why do they watch gay men porn, many have told me that they believe only a man can know how to please a man to 100% and that they want to better educate themselves on how to be better in their sex life... and they might actually have a point; I've heard from several gay men that no woman's blowjob can ever hold a candle to one that a gay man can do -- I personally believe that to be an exaggeration but I think they're on to something there.
And finally, a lot of girls and women in my life have admitted to being interested in lesbian sex but are afraid due to social stigma and them being extremely vulnerable if they start actively looking for a woman sex partner. My own spouse openly admitted she'd f_ck a woman if she found one willing to do it. Strange thing is I wouldn't perceive that as cheating. I believe my S.O. is correct when she is saying that men think their girls cheat on them only if there's a penis involved.
That, plus hundreds of convos and experiences I've had in my life makes me think that women are innately bisexual while men are, most of the time, hetero-sexual.
They can tell the difference because they're doing "Data Science," not science.
* That these searches are a proxy for honest expression of a sexual desire
* That these searches are by the cohorts purported
Agree. Not convinced (although the data is interesting).
He uses the comparison that most men are looking to date skinny women, but that many men are "afraid" to act on their attraction to overweight women.
Yet... nearly 40% of women are considered obese. About half are married or otherwise attached. Who is to say that the population of online daters strongly correlates with these terrified men?
That's ironic considering he was a guest on an earlier Freakonomics episode: http://freakonomics.com/podcast/big-penis-things-ask-google/
> Porn featuring overweight women is surprisingly common among men. But the data from dating sites tells us that just about all men try to date skinny women. Many people don’t try to date the people they’re most attracted to.
Porn is a fantasy land. Many people find these stuff attractive because they are far away from their ordinary lives. Looking at the top views of the porn sites you can see strange titles like "Step-daughter punished by angry dad". What does this tell you? Can you really interpret the titles as what people want to do?
Same goes for overweight women. Some of the interest in watching those videos could even come out of hate.
Can't you just shout "I wanna f_ck any way I like and none of you can do anything about it!" and move on with your life already? Like, forever?
People have all sorts of fantasies and they develop based on one's persona, needs and environment. If your dream is to be nailed in the butthole by a game warden, there are probably millions of people on this planet who not only won't mock you but they'll also indulge you (by being the real thing, or by roleplaying). Same goes for if you can't get a boner without your bed being filled with unicorn plushies, or scr_wing armpits, or whatever floats your boat.
Drop the shame. Enough. Just go down the street smiling at the thought that nobody is oppressing your sexual needs, because in 99% of the time that's the truth.