Ask HN: Coping with Loneliness
Given the like natures of the people frequenting this board, I would imagine that I'm not alone (hah) when dealing with loneliness.
I've, over the past few years, grown more and more lonely with very little outside contact. My job does not interact with others much, topping out at the same few co-workers day in and day out.
I've only ever had a small group of friends, which has grown even more thread-bare with age.
Besides "go meet people" (how?), how do the fine people of HN deal with loneliness? Especially in the case your quite introverted? I like being alone, just not all the time, and not to the point of despairing loneliness.
I reach out, for fear that it envelops me.
129 comments
[ 3.8 ms ] story [ 184 ms ] threadYou can join a low level (or high level if you're competitive) dodgeball team, or soccer, or basically whatever strikes your fancy, then meet some new friends. It also gets you out of the house once a week or more with some new faces.
If you're really really not into athletic pursuits, I would second meetup.com for your interests. You also might check to see if your city has any bars/restaurants focused around board games or trivia. Those are also great for meeting new friends.
Also, I love dogs (probably more than most people). They're loyal, do not judge (unless you have a treat), and live in the moment - what more could one ask for?:) Animals can provide a lot of companionship.
I agree, never alone with a good book. But, having spent weeks at a time reading 5+ hours a day, it can become lonely in itself.
A doggo might be a good choice
Was perfect way to spend an afternoon without draining too much energy.
Seconded. If you like dogs, having one forces you to go out. In my past days (before I met my wife), my dog was the only thing to get me out of the house. I'd frequently go to the park, beach, etc.
Going places before the I got my dog felt like going to a movie alone. With my dog though.. well, I had someone, and better yet, I was focused on my dogs enjoyment. If she was happy, I was happy. I also became a lot more sociable and had more social interactions when I didn't care about other people, strangely enough.
It does come with a lot of responsibility, and that agonizing certainty that you'll grieve your pet after some 10 years of great companion.
with a sociable pet you get company at home; and for instance with a dog there are usually local dog parks where fellow owners _eventually_ meet eachother and while not becoming friends always can be a social event with your peers.
So some things to consider in no particular order:
Shame about being lonely drives people to feel more lonely. Don't let that trap engulf you.
Take steps to explore your psyche and see if the roots of your loneliness are based in issues like self-esteem. Don't take this lightly. It's easy to dismiss, but if those forces are present in your life, they'll be very difficult to see clearly.
Are you religious? Go to church (or sangha or whatever). Got an addiction? Go to a 12 step group meeting. Like board games? Find folks that like to play and hang out with them. Seek out opportunities to interact with people preferably in the flesh, but online can work too.
Get a therapist. Or a spiritual guide. Whatever, as long as they understand how the human psyche works, and that you're there to work. If that suits you.
Don't underestimate loneliness. There's a reason why our most feared punishment is isolating people. Because it's terrible.
Learn to relish solitude. Don't let an idea about solitude trick you into thinking that being alone is good.
Humans are social animals. Not being part of the herd represents an existential threat to us. This is a major cause of suffering in our species.
Humans are solitary animals. Being part of the herd can be a major stressor for us. This is a major cause of suffering in our species.
Best of luck.
That escalated quickly!
> Like board games? Find folks that like to play and hang out with them.
This one is definitely good advice. Introverts find it easier to mix with fellow introverts. I speak from experience. I can trace an awful lot of friends back to various magic the gathering sessions or lan parties
I went through hell with a series of offensively noisy and aggressively inconsiderate neighbors. So, I avoided home. And I didn't invite people over. And, as the months wore into years, my home took on aspects of neglect.
I was "trapped" at first by some circumstances I didn't deal with well. Then more thoroughly by the self-reinforcing nature of this decline.
Basically, if I'm not comfortable at home, I do not have people over. I lose a big part of my control over my interactions as well as my ability to reciprocate.
Further, since these circumstances stress me so, I don't feel well about myself -- including my inability to more effectively deal with the situation -- and this also causes me to engage less.
And as this is self-reinforcing, so is the attendant, resultant loneliness.
When I do get away from it, I enjoy interacting with people and seem to do reasonably well at it. Well, the "cool" people are still too self-absorbed to accept me. Fuck them -- a lesson too long in learning.
I'm not saying I have "the answer." But my intuition, of many years now, has not changed: I need to get the hell out of here and to somewhere I'm simply more happy and at peace with myself.
Otherwise, half my mind is always at least subconsciously worrying about the monster behind the door. Like neighbors with sub-woofers who would rattle my windows for hours on end.
Good luck with your journey, and thanks.
I live in a rural town, which I love (courtesy to introversion) but sometimes it can get lonely, and yes, that self-reinforcing spiral then happens. I try to go to tech events in big cities at least once a month so I'm reminded that I 'belong' to this community, even though most of the time I don't interact very much. (And that's ok too, be comfortable with who you are! :)) Seems to be working, that and monthly meetups with old friends and nurturing an appreciation of my own company. This is just me though - try different things so that you can find which suit you best. Chin up!
So let me make this simple. Get Out ASAP! Do whatever it takes to get out of there as soon as possible, but every day you stay your mental health will deteriorate. Cost should not be an issue here.
When you get out, ensure you are in a somewhat flexible situation, rent instead of buy etc. It'll take some time to heal and your preferences or needs might change during that time.
Things will be so much better afterwards. In retrospect, I can only say that for everyone in this situation, their first priority should be getting out.
Good Luck !
- Try Meetup.com. Endless options there. Don't be afraid to be awkward. Read about social skills and practice them.
- Be a better friend and initiate contact with people you know - don't wait for them.
- Also make a list of all people/friends you know local or non-local. Refer to that list and keep in touch. This is harder than it looks but is important. I was surprised how many folks I had a good connection with but did a sucky job of keeping in touch with.
- Attend workshops, classes etc where you have the chance to meet others in a like minded setting. Especially overnight ones. There are always group events happening in urban environments. Seek them out.
- This is going to sound dumb - but try to interact with people via social networks. It teaches you a bit of initiative and also leads to in person quality time in some cases. But be careful that you don't get swallowed by it.
- Have something interesting at your home - like board games, gaming , good list of movies to watch. That way you can feel comfortable inviting people over to hang out at your place and have a good time. It feels nice to say "I have a really cool board game - why don't you guys come over and let's have some fun, along with some beer/drinks"
- Be interesting - if you are passionate about 1 or more interesting topics outside work, and talk about it with folks you meet, they will remember you. It could be AI, self-improvement, meditation/mindfulness, running, fitness, music and so on. But learn to talk about your passion intelligently. It leaves a mark.
As for some of your suggestions, it's not that I have a laundry list of out-of-touch friends. I keep in touch with every one of my good friends from High School and College. The problem is, that list is about | | <- that big. Also, I removed myself from all social networks (and have read a number of articles linking FB usage with depression, which I dont need more of).
Thank-you.
Problematic. For many people these are the only ways they are organizing activities together. It's all about how you use them...
What loneliness tells you is that you haven't gotten the sort of stimuli you'd expect out of having a position in a social group. Experiencing it sucks because this is the sort of thing that is extraordinarily dangerous.
So, how do you get "I am part of a larger group that accepts me" signals? Go and do stuff. If you're not naturally inclined to stay on top of things, get organized about it. Texting/IMing your friends/acquaintances is a good choice. Volunteering somewhere could also help. Regular hobbies are great - I do social dancing. Swipe on a few Tinder profiles and see if you can strike up a conversation. It really doesn't matter what you do, so long as you use your planning faculties and organization to compensate for your lack of socialization drive.
This post, albeit inconsequential, was my first step in "doing" something about it. I've been alone for years. I've never admitted it. I'm reaching out. I just need to.. Scale up.
Thanks for the advice.
Likewise, one can feel lonely or empty due to insufficient social contact, wrong kind of social contact, insufficient exercise, or due to physical or psychological conditions.
Healthy empiricism is vital: like you said, our senses are telling us something for a reason (our ancestors wouldn't get far on the savannah if the predator they saw with their eyes was just as likely to be a fantom as the real thing, or if feelings of loneliness or isolation were just as likely to suggest eating more of a certain berry instead of joining a hunter gatherer pack), but it's important examine evidence impartially and in total (like a physician would do) as well as to make falsifiable hypotheses (one can never say "i have this specific pain due to a twisted wrist from an accident" with full certainty, but one can say that this is not the case if the wrist is not fractured in the first place and thus avoid treatment specific to a twisted wrist.)
I'd advice the OP to quantify the social contact one is getting and to describe its qualities (with evidence for and against) and make an action plan that tests the hypothesis, rules out some common alternatives (e.g., if one has family history of depression or physiological conditions like thyroidism, see a doctor first; if one is also not getting insufficient physical exercise, try that as well.) and a fall back plan if those aren't the case (perhaps taking a vacation to see if one needs a change of scenery, going to a conference and talking to others in the industry to see if a different group of colleagues might help.)
One somewhat bad advice I keep hearing is to enter into something that involves a long term commitment (e.g., get a pet, change jobs, or most commonly and more dangerously go to a dating site) as the first and/or only thing to try. All of these things are good and in many case help (e.g., now that I'm married and have two dogs, I find myself feeling less lonely than I did prior to this, even some of my closest friends have moved away recently), but have the tendency to act as short term distractions from a deeper or more difficult problem. It may end up doing little to help or might make things worse in the long term (neglecting a pet, hurting one's long term career, or getting into a codependent relationship) IF done without any reflection beforehand, that is "just because" it seemed at the time that to be the easiest and most obvious thing to do.
I would strongly advice against that. Research has shown that the use of Tinder decreases the self-worthyness of in particular male users.
Anyone who is already lonely or lacking self-esteem should stay well away.
I was in a very similar situation to the OP, an introvert who's career and interest led to a state of near constant solitude. I lived this way for over 10 years. I had a weekly routine; weekend was going to the store and househould maintenance, weekdays were going to work and fiddling with side projects after work. I would visit family every few months. But otherwise I was entirely alone. I feel that I am a true introvert, and relished it for few years, but it ground on me. Later I realized that I could die and no one would know for weeks. This was profoundly saddening to me.
I used online dating off and on for years with no success, and a lot of frustration as the parent indicates. It can be crushing to message 20 women and get zero responses. Over the years I worked on tweaking a message (a/b testing essentially) to see what would get responses, got some flattering photos to use. Then after I started getting some responses, and going on a few dates, still nothing. At one point I gave up for good, decided I was asexual and unlovable, and resolved to live out my life alone.
I won't say I was ever depressed, I do have a melancholy disposition. I experienced one episode of real depression for maybe a day, it was a dark pit, I couldn't stand to live. Luckily it only lasted a day, and never returned. That episode showed me how bad depression can really be. Not a constant state of being down or blue, but grinding darkness that makes your own skin unbearable. It was terrifying.
What drove me out of all this was series of illnesses with my parents. I had always imagined I'd get married have kids, but had zero success dating. I realized if I ever had kids, they wouldn't know my parents if I didn't act. So I got back on the horse, systematically used plentyoffish to date a lot (edit; well, less than 10 so not a lot) of girls and eventually met my wife and we have two kids.
Nowadays, I'm happier than I've ever been, but things aren't perfect. Being married is hard, particularly since my wife and I were both older when we met and "set in our ways". She's not the easiest person to live and neither am I. Our kids are a joy though. I get zero alone time now, which also grates on me. I REALLY need it, and my spouse is not sympathetic.
My wife says about herself "I was lonely wierdo, until I met you, now I'm not lonely, just wierd", which also applies to me, which amuses us.
Anyway all that's my .02, you're not alone, and that was my path.
In regards to dating sites, I've tried using them on/off for probably a year or two now. I've had a couple dates but they fizzle out quickly. Unfortunately, my age-group is big on the "hook-up" mentality which really doesn't appeal to me. Maybe, as you said, I need to just get back at it.
I tried online dating about 7 years ago and found it ok, had a few interesting dates but nothing special. I then met my wife (offline) who I thought was my soulmate.
After a few years she left me, and I decided to try online dating again. It feels very different. The women have this incredible sense of entitlement. I don't really blame them, apparently they receive so many messages that it's impossible to reply to them all. It's common to see something like: "If you're just going to say 'hi' don't bother messaging me.", but you can also waste a lot of time writing thoughtful opening messages that just get ignored. It's a painful daily reminder of exactly where you fit in the pecking order, which is why I wouldn't recommend it to someone who is already lonely.
It's hard to pin down exactly what has changed in between the 2 times I tried online dating. But I don't remember it being such a challenge just to get someone to reply to me.
But you're right; we're social animals and will never get away with complete solitude. It sounds that you do enjoy your own company, but need the occasional 'break' from yourself. You mentioned that you have a handful of friends? Focus on them, even though you may feel that it's tedious.
I know that "going out and meet new people" is cliche but it's so true that it's a great first step. Try meetup.com to find out events that you might be interested in. Don't just go for tech, try a new crazy thing, oh and hiking ;) Sunning your face and relaxing your eyes over vast expanses can do wonders to the soul, I find.
In my case, I have stopped thinking about it. Admittedly, some days it's not so easy, but the next day it's gone. What can I say. Some people like parties, others like strange things, and we like to be alone.
May I ask what you do on the days that it is bothering you? Do you just keep going until it doesnt bother you?
I find that I can do this, and have been doing this. It's just lately... The days I'm stuck living and feeling my loneliness outweigh the days I forget about it.
As always, is complicated. Probably two major things happening. First, years of practice. Second, a new hobby/hope.
For years of practice, what I mean is, for example what I learned about myself while talking to a therapist. Also techniques from books, blogs, videos, etc. More interesting, and probably more important is what I have learn about how the mind works. That really helps.
The hobby/hope/purpose or whatever they want a call it, it's very helpful. I'll even say it's necessary. It has to be big, like the coolest thing ever. To make you wake up every morning thinking about it. Many of the activities recommended here could be a good option, but only if they would help you achieve that cool thing you like.
2. Bluegrass jam, or any casual music circle thing. The people you meet are also people you might spend a weekend camping with because you end up at music festivals together. Gotta learn an instrument, though. And one one will occasionally run into the “gotta be better than everyone else and make sure they know it” asshole, but rarely. Usually a pretty mellow bunch, and the good ones let their playing, not their mouth, speak for their skills.
3. Some kind of sport, like running or cycling, or even beach volleyball I guess. Caution: could be assholes a’plenty if you get in the wrong group. I prefer runners, as they’re generally a more laid back group. Try trail running if you like it so laid back you’ll smell pot smoke before a race.
Those are the three things I regularly participate in where me might meet people (including a romantic partner), and generally nice people at that. Extrapolate to your own tastes and interests.
There's an interesting lesson in there as well about pair dancing, in that you can have wildly different experiences with each partner, similar to relationships.
You could look for groups to participate in that involve some established interest of you, such as a book club. You could also put the word out that you are looking to widen your social circle and find some means to signal to existing acquaintances that you would appreciate it if they kept you in mind or pointed you in the right direction. Just letting people know you are open to introductions can help foster them. Introverts are often basically giving off "Go away!" signals without really being aware of it.
This is the first few part of the friendship formula. Proximity and frequency.
I've observed this in my own attendance at things like weekly pick-up sports games, organized leagues etc. Players who show up week after week are just as well-regarded as more-skilled, but less regular players.