HN Explorer

Ask HN: What do you actually use your biohack implants for?

61 points by amingilani ↗ HN
I have an NFC implant from dangerous things in my left hand. When I got it I was imagining unlocking doors with a wave but since most scanners are incompatible I've been unable to use it at my last two office buildings.

I plan on getting a door lock for my apartment but maybe next month when I move into a new one.

Nowadays the only practical use I have for it is a party trick where I convince people that their phones have had DNA recognition for years. When I hold it up to my hand, up pops the vcard in my chip leaving them amazed about the technology they never knew their phone had.

Sometimes they find the truth incredilous and refuse to accept that I have a chip implant when I make the reveal. I guess DNA scanning is more believable.

58 comments

[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 120 ms ] thread
lordnacho
Could you possibly use it as a train ticket? A number of modern commuter systems now have swipe system that are NFC chips. Is it programmable?
amingilani
It's a passive tag, so I can edit it all I want but then again I live in Pakistan, our tickets are paper :)
michjedi
You could easily cut an Oyster Card chip out of the card, stick it in your hand and use it to travel in London.
BjoernKW
Something like this has been done before, albeit in the form of objects like rings:

http://www.ds72.com/projects/oyster-ring

So while possible unfortunately tampering with Oyster cards is frowned upon by TfL. It might not technically be illegal but it'll certainly run you into problems when checked by traffic inspectors.

The answer to this StackExchange question gives an in-depth explanation of the Oyster card's cryptographic architecture, which shows that the card being as tamper-proof as possible is very much by design:

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/78013/can-i-...

mseebach
I would suspect that your troubles go beyond "frowns". A ticket inspector wants to see a valid oyster card, not a party trick, and whether it scans or not, I don't think it's a high bar to argue that a tampered with card isn't valid, period.

(Officially, at least. I've seen them happily scan the outsides of people's wallets.)

isostatic
The oyster remains property of TFL, the inspector can withdraw the oyster from use. If your skin is in the way, oh well.
marklyon
I remember that movie. It's all fun and games until TFL sends an Oyster collector after another Oyster collector.
DanBC
Not sure why you got downvoted. English rail laws are pretty clear about tickets.

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/tfl-conditions-of-carriage.pdf

> 5.1 All photocards and Oyster photocards remain our property and must not be intentionally damaged, altered or tampered with in any way. We may withdraw or cancel your photocard or Oyster photocard at any time

The railway bylaws say this:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachm...

> 20. Altering tickets and use of altered tickets

> (1) No person shall alter any ticket in any way with the intent that an Operator shall be defrauded or prejudiced.

> (2) No person shall knowingly use any ticket which has been altered in any way in breach of Byelaw 20(1).

Which makes it sound like this tampering would be okay, but they also say this:

> (1) In any area not designated as a compulsory ticket area, no person shall enter any train for the purpose of travelling on the railway unless he has with him a valid ticket entitling him to travel.

> (2) A person shall hand over his ticket for inspection and verification of validity when asked to do so by an authorised person.

...and it's likely TfL won't see these as valid tickets.

Tharkun
Why isn't anyone protesting those TOS? Them having the apparently unqualified right to cancel the card you paid for is unacceptable.
kryptiskt
You're buying the service, not the card.
mseebach
And it being a public service, they generally can't deny you the use of it (at least not 'unqualified', I'm sure there could be some sort of police or court order taken out against people) - but they can specify exactly how you're going to pay for the service.

Also, I'm pretty sure "cancelling" means "forced reissue", not forfeiture of a legitimate ticket or balance.

DanBC
You'd get to challenge the ToS in court if TfL were unfairly applying it.
falcolas
> having the apparently unqualified right to cancel the card

Is unfortunately required to handle the various con artists and scammers who would exploit loopholes the TOS.

Yes, I believe you can be in the wrong while following the letter of the law; that's part of the reason why we have so many damned laws: to close loopholes exploited by assholes.

Of course some asshole in the system can abuse that clause right back, but that's the cost of doing business with people on both sides.

tjmaglio
RingTheory makes rings that can access the MBTA (mass transit) in Boston. The product is the "Sesame Ring" and they have partnered with the MBTA on this. http://www.ringtheory.com/#home
ben_w
Best "hack" I heard for an Oyster Card was someone putting it inside an actual oyster, beeping in and out of the London Underground with it.
djmobley
Until you want to do something simple like change the zones on a travelcard, and TfL issue you a new card.
isostatic
I haven't bought a season on oyster before, but surely it's just programmed at the machine via a normal write?
reustle
This makes me wonder, could you make/3d print a simple ring for your finger and pop your oyster card (uk) / suica card (jp) / t money card (korea) / etc in it? It would essentially be just as seamless as an embedded chip in your hand, without the messiness.
melloclello
A long time ago I put my Snapper Card (NZ equivalent) in a cup of acetone to get the chip out. I then stuck the chip in the back of my Nokia bar phone.
jackhwds
Can you not use it to pay for things? thats the whole reason I want to get one like an upgrade from apple pay
amingilani
Unfortunately no, this is a passive tag that can only let you read data that's on the chip. The chip also had a unique ID.

Android or Apple Pay use your phone's NFC antenna to communicate. But they don't give out the same information every time.

edejong
That makes it pretty useless. You can't sign or decrypt an AES key, no display. I'm even more convinced that the bio-hacking is nothing but a badly thought out fad.
falcolas
A slightly more advanced implant like those in passively powered RFID smartcard could do exactly this: provide a mechanism by which to cryptographically authenticate a transaction via a stored private key.

There are yubikeys which do this exactly already, just via a usb-key shaped device.

It would suffer from some of the same problems as biometrics - in that once set, it couldn't practically be revoked. And any failures would involve minor surgery to correct. But at least you wouldn't be leaving the secret key on every surface you touched.

cup
There are plenty of uses. Braces for teeth straightening. Cochlea implant for assisted hearing. Bionic eye to improve sight. Insulin pump to regulate blood glucose levels. Pace maker to supplement failing pacemaker cells.

Never understood why people associated "biohack implants" with sticking a magnet or NFC chip in your finger.

[deleted]
(comment deleted)
rjbwork
>Never understood why people associated "biohack implants" with sticking a magnet or NFC chip in your finger.

Gobs and gobs of stories poured out about that in the early 2010's. Seems pretty much out of fashion now.

amingilani
All of these are valid biohacks. I didn't mean to imply that NFC chips are the only things in this category. Have you done something interesting with your cochlear implant?
pimeys
Does a CGM glucose monitoring sensor count? I get the values real time to my android watch and remote InfluxDB for later analysis.
ollysb
I've been considering doing something like this, which CGM do you use and how do get the numbers out? Are you able to automate sending them into InfluxDB?
pimeys
Dexcom G4 with self-soldered chip to translate the transmitter signal to Bluetooth. Xdrip plus in my phone with my own extension for Influx. All real time and automatic. Nightscout's Xdrip repo should have the Influx extension.
edejong
What time-series graphing tools do you use? Grafana? R with influxdbr?
pimeys
Grafana, and wrote an extension for xDrip plus to support InfluxDB.
edejong
Interesting project. I am not bio-hacked, except for a Pebble watch with HR / movement sensors which I send to InfluxDB. I use Grafana, but for some graphs (especially when I want to see weekly trends), I use R + influxdbr. Here is a screenshot of my heart-rate of the last three months (1 minute interval + lowess smoothing to remove outliers): http://imgur.com/x3ERdPc
pimeys
It has probably saved me from getting blind or losing a leg in the next 20 years. From 8.5% A1c to 6.5% and below. Together with the pump I see my glucose all the time, it wakes me up at night if needed and I can eat and live however I like with perfect glucose values.

Every single type 1 diabetic should have the possibility to have one of these systems.

I'll post pictures later when I get home...

pimeys
As I promised, here's a picture how my Grafana diabetes dashboard looks like:

http://imgur.com/1YPcOrZ

As you can see I dipped down the low alert while walking home, so my watch alerted me early enough so I could eat some candy.

edejong
That's an amazing project. You probably agree that it's extremely important that we own and control our own data and make it easy through OSS to manipulate and enhance it.
pimeys
That's correct. Although here in Germany there are strict regulations for storing health data, so using the commercial solutions provided by the CGM would be feasible. The open source software is just so much better.

If any other diabetic programmers are reading this, I found the best way to get a control from this very complex disease is to utilize same methods I use when writing software and analyzing services.

derekja
Hi,

My BF is T1D and has an Animas Vibe with the integrated Dexcom G4. I see from an older thread that this is the setup you are using. Can you point me toward any hacking information on this? On the OpenAPS flowchart for the Vibe it merely says to call Animas and advocate for the addition of temp basal commands. If we cannot get him to a full closed loop on this pump, even an open loop system would be an interesting place to start. Thanks for any pointers!

thinbeige
You have this as an implant? Link please...
pimeys
I didn't know is the Dexcom G4 actually an implant, because it comes out from your skin. Devices like this are pretty common with diabetics nowadays
liamzebedee
I was assuming OP was referring to custom-built projects. I too have a CGM (thanks to the recent Australian Federal subsidy) - a massive shame the technology isn't more open.
pimeys
If using the Dexcom G4, you need to solder one of these to use it with xdrip

https://xdripkit.co.uk/

G5 works directly with the software because the transmitter speaks Bluetooth.

thinbeige
Maybe I am clueless but why not just stick a NFC chip on the back of your smartphone or just get one with NFC?

I can't imagine any situation where you need an NFC chip and don't carry along your smartphone. Ok, there's one: You are swimming in a swimming pool and need to open the locker afterwards.

edejong
Use a four-digit pin that's by the users choosing. Works like a charm, totally water-proof and cannot otherwise inadvertently be retrieved. Also keeps brain-dead people out of the pool.
amingilani
I was going to get an NFC ring initially. But then I woke up one night and decided that if I ever own a gun, and need it in the middle of the night because a zombie broke into my house. I'd want a system where I can stick my hand under the bed and pull out a gun. But this system shouldn't work for anyone else.

That pushed me over the edge and I got an implant a few weeks later. True story.

I still have to get around to buying a gun, let alone create an NFC reading smart holster.

ethbro
There might be easier ways to differentiate individual hands if necrotic flesh is your threat model. :)
paulcole
>I still have to get around to buying a gun

Please don't.

EpicEng
>Maybe I am clueless but why not just stick a NFC chip on the back of your smartphone or just get one with NFC?

Because then you don't feel as cool when you tell people about it.

88e282102ae2e5b
This whole concept seems like a combination of a desperate wish to be living in a better world and the need to seem interesting at parties. When there's a compelling reason to get such devices you won't have to ask people what they use them for, in the same way that you don't have to ask people why they have a cell phone.
falcolas
I want to do this - to expand my senses and mind (what else is technology good for) - but I really don't want something that will wear out and which can't be easily replaced. I respect the pioneers in this field, and look forward to the tech becoming more advanced and mainstream.

To those who believe it will never become mainstream - the same could have been said for tattoos and piercings a mere few decades ago. I remember a time when visible tattoos were a sign of a counter culture, not a normal part of life.

Heck, Google Glass was shunned for its camera, but the Snapchat Spectacles are actively embraced only a few years later.

namlem
Tattoos and piercings have been mainstream on and off for thousands of years in cultures all over he world.
marklyon
I use a modified digestive tract to minimize the amount of personal space I require. Thus far, it's working well.
Roritharr
I kinda went the opposite way, in an non-invasive mostly organic fashion. Can't recommend.