Can anyone link the actual study? Tried following the links but got blocked by a log-in wall to see the actual study.
Was there a control for the study? What were the questions asked? And how can they draw any conclusions from a group of 170 students (which I am assuming is their study group, unless the paper says otherwise).
It could also be that young people are being asked to do more with less compensations and hardly any positive re-assurance about future stability (jobs, income, housing).
Still couldn't find the studies themselves though.
I wonder if there's any way to the effect of age, as opposed to generation, on the studies. Even in the livescience coverage I wonder if the trend is more recent generations are more entitled than older generations in general (as the submission posits) or if populations become less entitled as they age and if so how entitled were the older generations when they were the younger generations' age?
I think they're talking about "Trait entitlement: A cognitive-personality source of vulnerability to psychological distress," based on one of the linked blog posts mentioning Grubbs and Exline 2016. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find a free copy. Nor does this seem to talk about generational demographics, so I guess that stuff was glommed on from somewhere else.
You hit the nail on the head. Young people today are aware that the economic and political environment is a farce. They know their options for prosperity are limited. The average 20 something I know is struggling with huge student loans, struggling to afford medical care, cannot afford their rent nor to save for a home, while simultaneously being told that their "lazy" by the generation that sold their futures before they were born. And I am talking about college graduates here. A college degree is no longer a guarantor of a job, it is a guarantor of debt, however.
Younger people are growing up without much hope for their futures. For many of these people-- the US has been in perpetual war their entire life, we've been in a depression most of their lives. There is no option to get ahead because the elderly have all of the assets.
And if you want to blame them still? Remember who raised them-- the same people complaining now.
Source? I'm in my 40's but work near a university and have a lot of college aged friends and acquaintances.
Awkward phrasing in the OP - they may "feel entitled", but clearly the implication is they aren't _actually_ entitled, hence their narcissistic disappointment. Or to put it another way, 'more and more young people aren't entitled, but feel they are'.
>Pschology Today reports that some examples of entitlement range from the disregard of rules, freeloading, causing inconveniences and like to assume the role of leader when working in groups.
Disregard of rules, depending on the rule, is fine, particularly when said rules are dumb. You need to be able to know which rules are breakable and which are not. For me, this goes along with the phrase, "Better to ask forgiveness than permission." Example: production issue that is bleeding $5 million a day, but the rule says you can only release on the 3rd Thursday of every month and it's the first Monday. That's obviously a short sighted and very dumb rule. You have justification though so you can probably break it safely. Might want to talk to your superior though.
>freeloading
Depends on what this means. If you are reciprocal, then it's called sharing. If you actually are a freeloader, stop; you won't have any friends for long.
>causing inconveniences
Ya don't be that guy driving 10 miles under in the fast lane.
>like to assume the role of leader when working in groups.
You should totally do this, especially if no one else is willing. If you pin your fate on a nitwit, you will regret it.
Having said all that, news loves talking shit about the newest generation. They did it with mine, until my generation started being the news people. Take it with a grain of salt. Soon your generation will be making fun of the next generation, so tell them the same thing.
Note that it was just as cool to do that for Gen X when they were at a similar age, and even moreso for the Boomers in their time (who, to be fair, had much more of a highly visible subgroup making a flamboyant show of rejecting their elder's values than either of the following generations did.)
The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.
-- Socrates
Edit: So it is a common misattribution [0] but it's still pretty amusing. There are plenty of similar quotes throughout the ages so the sentiment is not wrong.
Causes mentioned are 1) Parenting, 2) technology, 3) impatience and 4) environment.
#1 most definitely checks out in the US. I have a 17 year old niece (born in 2000) who exhibits the toxic narcissistic and entitlement mentioned about young people in the OP and in the youtube video.
His room is filled with trophies and medals (over 30) and at first glance I thought he was really a future tennis prodigy. Turns out not a single 1 of those trophies and medals were 1st prize, or even 2nd prize. Almost all were "Participation" Trophies. The way he showed them off, one would think they were all 1st prizes.
Growing up in India, we never had anything like this. I was 1st in class for several years at 1 of the top catholic convent schools. The 1st and 2nd in class got books and a certificate as prizes, the rest got nothing. This made it special, so everyone would compete and try to come 1st or 2nd in class.
So I really don't get these "Participation" trophies. By trying to tell the kids - every kid pretty much - they are special, when 99% of them aren't, aren't the parents and school teachers partly to blame for cultivating this "toxic narcissistic" and "entitlement" that they then carry with them for the rest of their lives, into adulthood and into the workplace?
Giving every kid the same trophy does not tell them they are all special. Every kid gets the same, so they get told they got the same thing as other kids. So, chill. Your conclusion that trophies in niece room means tennis prodigy is just you having incorrect assumptions about different culture. They are happy memories of event, not proof of skill.
I guarantee you that American high school Football players train damm hard, participation trophies or not. So do chearleaders, although and I admit that I had to see them do stuff to realize that the thing is truly hard.
Occasionally, trophies or t-shirts or whatever engage kids that would not even tried knowing they cant win anyway. Which is about the effect. The idea that these symbols are bane of civilization is as wrong as opposite obsession that lacking them would make kids crumble.
> They are happy memories of event, not proof of skill.
Aren't photos and videos sufficient to capture happy memories of events? I thought trophies were given out for proof of skill / accomplishments. Maybe that's not how it works in the US. I wouldn't know, wasn't raised here, but everywhere else in the world, Trophies are not given out to all participants. Cos then doesn't it diminish the accomplishments of the winner(s)??
Participation trophy is not for special accomplishment, by definition. Everyone gets it and everyone knows everyone gets it. Winner won and is fully aware, got winners trophy with '1. place' written on it and prize. In case of more important competition, it would be something real non-symbolic that winner can actually use (like a game). Unless we are talking about competition of pre-schoolers and such in which case fretting over -anything- is royally dumb.
Thinking about it, the actual top prize is sport scholarship for college.
> Cos then doesn't it diminish the accomplishments of the winner(s)??
No, your accomplishment does not count for less because other people got stuff too. However, your accomplishment depends not just on winning, but also on how important/large the competition was. Being first at local school competition is less then being fourth at more important tournament - just like anywhere else in the world.
> Aren't photos and videos sufficient to capture happy memories of events?
Who cares? I guess that they have also some selfies in that room somewhere, however less visible. I just cant muster any anger or resentment in me over somebody else looking at shiny cheap trophy over .jpeg or over wearing t-shirt they gave out or whatever.
We are talking about community activities people organize because they want to do something for community, for club or because they want make kids to like sport they personally enjoy. It is not like they would be becoming rich on that (there are exceptions). I am not going to fret over their choice of giveaways. Nor start doom and gloom accusing them of destroying whole generation because of cheap shiny thing.
I kind of acknowledge that people who organize these things do more for community then those who don't do anything like that and only complain. For that matter, to lesser effect, I acknowledge that kids who participated did better choice then those who never participated in any event.
I cannot imagine a meaningful discussion starting with the word "entitled". To me it's "I really dislike the fact that you want something, so I have this bad label that I'll apply to you".
And, as it turns out, not a word on young people there. The entire study is on a conceptual model of entitlement, and how it leads to disappointment. Maybe the actual study (paywalled) actually does break things down by age, but it certainly doesn't seem to be a major focus.
If I understand correctly, this research shows that young people are more entitled than older people. It does not show that young people now are more entitled than young people in previous decades: that a 50-year-old was as entitled when he or she was 25.
This gives me a great excuse to trot out my favorite collection of headlines and quotes:
Young people: the “latter-day cult of individualism; the worship of the brazen calf of the Self.” (1907)
Young people: those for whom “the phrase to make a living could have absolutely no meaning”. (1968)
The “Me Decade”. (Baby boomers in the ’70s)
The Now Generation? Slackers? (Generation X)
The Not-Me Generation? (1980)
The Video Generation of “preening narcissists who have to document every banal moment with their cutting-edge communications technology”. (1985)
The “entitlement” of Millennials is the same entitlement that plagued their fathers and grandfathers. It's young people in the workforce. Some are idiots, some are limited by idiot managers. Everyone wants more responsibility, and no one wants to wait and get there.
Related: a study from 2010 on narcissism published in Perspectives on Psychological Science.
First, we show that when new data on narcissism are
folded into preexisting meta-analytic data, there is no
increase in narcissism in college students over the last
few decades. Second, we show, in contrast, that age
changes in narcissism are both replicable and
comparatively large in comparison to generational changes
in narcissism.
> like to assume the role of leader when working in groups
People who assume the role of leader when working in groups may be annoying (and definitely are to me), but they also have better careers and earn more money. If you don't assume such role nor defend turf and other colleges do, you will end up micromanaged and blamed for everything.
The above are reasons in nutshell why parents and educators shape kids to assume the leadership qualities. Because those of us who were raised not to assume them, earn less money and less promotions.
The other thing is that people who demanded better things often got better things and those of us who did not demanded better things, well, did not. Like for example, during salary negotiation. Every single time there is discussion about whether or why women get lower salaries, someone - oftentimes someone older - argue by women demanding less or being less aggressive in negotiation. Why would a parent who has this experience with this trained the kid to loose later on? Then they complain about entitlement when young people (of both genders) listen to the logic behind the argument and are demanding.
By the above I want to say that while it may be overdone in many cases, a lot of it is attempt to adjust to how world works. Overly humble people with low confidence don't build successful companies, don't win and get blamed for their own misfortunes.
32 comments
[ 3.4 ms ] story [ 35.8 ms ] threadWas there a control for the study? What were the questions asked? And how can they draw any conclusions from a group of 170 students (which I am assuming is their study group, unless the paper says otherwise).
It could also be that young people are being asked to do more with less compensations and hardly any positive re-assurance about future stability (jobs, income, housing).
https://www.livescience.com/53591-millennials-dislike-narcis...
Still couldn't find the studies themselves though.
I wonder if there's any way to the effect of age, as opposed to generation, on the studies. Even in the livescience coverage I wonder if the trend is more recent generations are more entitled than older generations in general (as the submission posits) or if populations become less entitled as they age and if so how entitled were the older generations when they were the younger generations' age?
Younger people are growing up without much hope for their futures. For many of these people-- the US has been in perpetual war their entire life, we've been in a depression most of their lives. There is no option to get ahead because the elderly have all of the assets.
And if you want to blame them still? Remember who raised them-- the same people complaining now.
Source? I'm in my 40's but work near a university and have a lot of college aged friends and acquaintances.
"adjective: entitled
believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment."
give (someone) a legal right or a just claim to receive or do something. 'employees are normally entitled to severance pay'"
The definition cuts both ways (unfortunately).
Disregard of rules, depending on the rule, is fine, particularly when said rules are dumb. You need to be able to know which rules are breakable and which are not. For me, this goes along with the phrase, "Better to ask forgiveness than permission." Example: production issue that is bleeding $5 million a day, but the rule says you can only release on the 3rd Thursday of every month and it's the first Monday. That's obviously a short sighted and very dumb rule. You have justification though so you can probably break it safely. Might want to talk to your superior though.
>freeloading
Depends on what this means. If you are reciprocal, then it's called sharing. If you actually are a freeloader, stop; you won't have any friends for long.
>causing inconveniences
Ya don't be that guy driving 10 miles under in the fast lane.
>like to assume the role of leader when working in groups.
You should totally do this, especially if no one else is willing. If you pin your fate on a nitwit, you will regret it.
Having said all that, news loves talking shit about the newest generation. They did it with mine, until my generation started being the news people. Take it with a grain of salt. Soon your generation will be making fun of the next generation, so tell them the same thing.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hLpE1Pa8vvI
That's just the eternal ways of the world.
-- Socrates
Edit: So it is a common misattribution [0] but it's still pretty amusing. There are plenty of similar quotes throughout the ages so the sentiment is not wrong.
[0] http://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/05/01/misbehaving-children...
Causes mentioned are 1) Parenting, 2) technology, 3) impatience and 4) environment.
#1 most definitely checks out in the US. I have a 17 year old niece (born in 2000) who exhibits the toxic narcissistic and entitlement mentioned about young people in the OP and in the youtube video.
His room is filled with trophies and medals (over 30) and at first glance I thought he was really a future tennis prodigy. Turns out not a single 1 of those trophies and medals were 1st prize, or even 2nd prize. Almost all were "Participation" Trophies. The way he showed them off, one would think they were all 1st prizes.
Growing up in India, we never had anything like this. I was 1st in class for several years at 1 of the top catholic convent schools. The 1st and 2nd in class got books and a certificate as prizes, the rest got nothing. This made it special, so everyone would compete and try to come 1st or 2nd in class.
So I really don't get these "Participation" trophies. By trying to tell the kids - every kid pretty much - they are special, when 99% of them aren't, aren't the parents and school teachers partly to blame for cultivating this "toxic narcissistic" and "entitlement" that they then carry with them for the rest of their lives, into adulthood and into the workplace?
I guarantee you that American high school Football players train damm hard, participation trophies or not. So do chearleaders, although and I admit that I had to see them do stuff to realize that the thing is truly hard.
Occasionally, trophies or t-shirts or whatever engage kids that would not even tried knowing they cant win anyway. Which is about the effect. The idea that these symbols are bane of civilization is as wrong as opposite obsession that lacking them would make kids crumble.
Aren't photos and videos sufficient to capture happy memories of events? I thought trophies were given out for proof of skill / accomplishments. Maybe that's not how it works in the US. I wouldn't know, wasn't raised here, but everywhere else in the world, Trophies are not given out to all participants. Cos then doesn't it diminish the accomplishments of the winner(s)??
Thinking about it, the actual top prize is sport scholarship for college.
> Cos then doesn't it diminish the accomplishments of the winner(s)??
No, your accomplishment does not count for less because other people got stuff too. However, your accomplishment depends not just on winning, but also on how important/large the competition was. Being first at local school competition is less then being fourth at more important tournament - just like anywhere else in the world.
> Aren't photos and videos sufficient to capture happy memories of events?
Who cares? I guess that they have also some selfies in that room somewhere, however less visible. I just cant muster any anger or resentment in me over somebody else looking at shiny cheap trophy over .jpeg or over wearing t-shirt they gave out or whatever.
We are talking about community activities people organize because they want to do something for community, for club or because they want make kids to like sport they personally enjoy. It is not like they would be becoming rich on that (there are exceptions). I am not going to fret over their choice of giveaways. Nor start doom and gloom accusing them of destroying whole generation because of cheap shiny thing.
I kind of acknowledge that people who organize these things do more for community then those who don't do anything like that and only complain. For that matter, to lesser effect, I acknowledge that kids who participated did better choice then those who never participated in any event.
So, let's take a look at the abstract of the actual study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27504935
And, as it turns out, not a word on young people there. The entire study is on a conceptual model of entitlement, and how it leads to disappointment. Maybe the actual study (paywalled) actually does break things down by age, but it certainly doesn't seem to be a major focus.
Previous studies show entitlement is on the rise -- so-called "millennials" see themselves as generally more entitled than previous generations;
It's really hard to say if the study says that, or the study author, or Case Western. If anyone wants to spend $11.95 to find out, let us know.
(But even though I'm not a millennial, I feel entitled enough that I refuse to pay for this :)
This gives me a great excuse to trot out my favorite collection of headlines and quotes:
Young people: the “latter-day cult of individualism; the worship of the brazen calf of the Self.” (1907)
Young people: those for whom “the phrase to make a living could have absolutely no meaning”. (1968)
The “Me Decade”. (Baby boomers in the ’70s)
The Now Generation? Slackers? (Generation X)
The Not-Me Generation? (1980)
The Video Generation of “preening narcissists who have to document every banal moment with their cutting-edge communications technology”. (1985)
The “entitlement” of Millennials is the same entitlement that plagued their fathers and grandfathers. It's young people in the workforce. Some are idiots, some are limited by idiot managers. Everyone wants more responsibility, and no one wants to wait and get there.
From this great Atlantic article, who has more good citations from decades past:
https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/05/me-gene...
People who assume the role of leader when working in groups may be annoying (and definitely are to me), but they also have better careers and earn more money. If you don't assume such role nor defend turf and other colleges do, you will end up micromanaged and blamed for everything.
The above are reasons in nutshell why parents and educators shape kids to assume the leadership qualities. Because those of us who were raised not to assume them, earn less money and less promotions.
The other thing is that people who demanded better things often got better things and those of us who did not demanded better things, well, did not. Like for example, during salary negotiation. Every single time there is discussion about whether or why women get lower salaries, someone - oftentimes someone older - argue by women demanding less or being less aggressive in negotiation. Why would a parent who has this experience with this trained the kid to loose later on? Then they complain about entitlement when young people (of both genders) listen to the logic behind the argument and are demanding.
By the above I want to say that while it may be overdone in many cases, a lot of it is attempt to adjust to how world works. Overly humble people with low confidence don't build successful companies, don't win and get blamed for their own misfortunes.