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Ask HN: How to get around ageism and perceived incompetence?

26 points by ccajas ↗ HN
I'm about 35 years old working in software.

As you age, people expect you to be able to handle increasing levels of responsibility. 9/10 of my years working professionally have been as a contractor to small 10-20 people companies. Despite their small size I never felt like I was a major contributor or had a major say in something, aside from one project. I have been the architect for one reasonably complex project, but I never lead, interviewed, or managed people.

General consensus I get is that I'm too overqualified for junior roles, but for senior roles, they didn't find any exceptional strong points with me. My network is weak and I have almost no friends in the tech field. So, how does one work their way out of this problem?

Don't know if it's impostor syndrome but it feels like I require a "remedial" software job (which doesn't really exist).

12 comments

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smt88
Email me using the address on my profile. I may have a way to help.
ccajas
Can you elaborate on what is it you do for work? Do you help run a company? Do you work for a company that has on-the-job training for new employees?
db48x
Not managing people is good; it means that you're not a manager.
ccajas
It's not just about managing. I don't have any exceptionally strong technical points either, and that has not been well-received by employers.
WheelsAtLarge
Bottom line is that you'll need to move away from the ultra competitive areas. If a companies can find a younger person to do the work you do then they will. It's not just tech it's everywhere. You can try to fight the perceptions and become a super developer by cramming more tech skills but ultimately it's a losing battle.

I just read that people are rushing to get CS degrees in record numbers. Soon there will be an even larger pool of graduates looking for tech jobs.

My best advice it to look at getting some management and marketing skills. Start looking at teaching. Look at job openings and see what skills they are looking for. Also, go to tech gatherings and start making contacts.

Unless you are at the top tier as a developer, software jobs get scarce as you get older.

Start training for a new field, health is probably a good bet, that's the reality in our new economy these days. Don't wait.

ccajas
I am not looking to compete with younger people. I am mostly going to be in competition with people 35 years of age like me, who also have around 10 years of experience in the field.

There are lots of software developers that are doing very well at this age. No need to look at other areas of work for now. If the majority of 30-something software engineers can be competitive, so can I.

Right now I am going to tech meetups (at least 5 per year) and am talking to other people in the field. It feels like spinning my wheels, though. Using those connections to help fill in work in between jobs is going to be more of playing a "long game".

romanhn
Are you actually interested in more responsibilities? Not everyone is. Have you proactively asked for it or have gone above and beyond to contribute outside of your normal day-to-day activities? Or do you tend to wait for opportunities to come to you?

Senior-level contributors are expected to show initiative on a continuous basis. As for moving into lead or manager roles, you need to show a lot of those qualities before even being considered for them. If you haven't demonstrated that you already have the qualities necessary for the new level, nobody is going to take a chance that you will suddenly develop them later. Proactively seeking those opportunities is part of the game.

ccajas
People expect more responsibilities out of me due to my years that I worked. But throughout most of my career, I worked jobs that lacked support for programmers, and no mentorships. I'm not ready to lead or teach without first being on the receiving end of that. But no company that has the resources for being taught skills by better programmers would give me a job, so I'm stuck at this road block.
jpindar
It really does seem like all the job ads specify either recent grads or senior team leads. Nothing in between.
40something
I quit software after about a decade of experience. The passion was gone and I could only argue that MeteorJS (or other hyped tech of the week) was not ready for our production use. But kids will be kids and the rockstars started using my age to shame me to leave, which worked. Using rails for our next services was apparently just too old school. This is the dark side of software development that rarely is mentioned.
muzani
It sounds like you're suited for management or teaching.

You're humble enough to have impostor's syndrome. You're at the sweet spot for management/teaching age.

Despite what you feel now, you've probably learned a lot about different kinds of tools and which one to pick in what situation, even if you're not great at using them. You have also learned how trends evolve in time and have better instinct for when to adopt a new technology or use an older one.

Management isn't that hard either, but it needs someone who can understand what the engineers are going through and get things out of the way.

My hack was to start a startup and see it all the way through, but I wouldn't recommend it unless you're really desperate.

Another approach might be to teach bootcamps or some community college. You're probably extremely qualified by teaching standards, unless you hate teaching.

bradknowles
With respect, you haven't seen ageism until you hit 40 or 50. When you've been told that you have a great rèsumè and that they're looking for someone just exactly like you but five years younger and would you be able to give them any suggestions, then you've seen ageism.

I've never been a manager, and I wouldn't want to be. Technical Team Lead is as far as I would want to go, and I haven't done that yet.

As you get older, it becomes easier to become a contractor or consultant, as opposed to working in-house. Then they expect you to be a bit older, because you've got more experience.