Ask HN: If ideas are worthless, why are some startups in stealth mode?

73 points by sendos ↗ HN
Common knowledge here on HN and among many startup folks is that ideas are worthless, and only execution counts.

If that's the case, why are some startups in stealth mode? If they have a great team that can execute, why should they care if anyone else knows what they are working on? If something is worthless, I shouldn't mind giving it to someone else. If I do mind someone else sharing what I have, it means I place some value on it.

Are some startups correct in wanting to be in stealth mode, or is it always a stupid idea?

If it makes sense that some startups should be in stealth mode, doesn't that imply that the knowledge of what they are working on has some value, which would mean that ideas sometimes do have value?

Maybe I'm missing something, either in what people mean by "ideas are worthless, execution is the only thing that counts", or in what people mean when they say that a startup is in stealth mode, or something else.

What do you guys think?

92 comments

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because all ideas are worthless but some ideas are more worthless than others ;)

On a serious note, some ideas can produce multi-billion dollar businesses while other ideas have limited, niche potential. Hence a greater incentive to keep the idea secret.

Because sometimes opportunities for your execution can only be had by be stealthy or by being first.
It makes sense to stay in stealth mode if you believe that someone else can execute on your idea before you can. For a simple idea (e.g. Foursquare for dating), if your idea gets out, there could be another team who could whip up a prototype in a few weeks, so maybe it's better to stay stealth. For something like RethinkDB, there's little risk in revealing your idea, because it would be very difficult for someone else to execute their idea first.
Yes, but if it makes sense to stay in stealth mode for the reasons you outline, doesn't that mean that there is value in the knowledge of what you are working on, i.e. there is value in ideas?
Well, perhaps there is value in knowing other people have a similar idea.
The monetary value of an idea that lives in your head is like the monetary value of your liver. It may be priceless to you, but it is worthless to everyone else until you surgically remove it (execution).
there is value in time. put your ideas out there and the amount of time you have to go to market could possibly be drastically shortened (specifically w/ simple apps that solve a need for non-techies)
I have several ideas that could make millions. Honestly, but I am only one person and I don't have a team of developers. Wish I did, but I don't. I also don't have the money to quit my job either. So I keep my ideas extremely close to center so I can work on them one at a time.

Heck, I even have an idea that would change the way politics in general is viewed by the public. Its revolutionary and could have a huge influence on changing the world, but I currently can't develop for it because I don't have the time. Its an amazing idea and I wish it was out there, but I would rather wait till I personally can change the world. I don't want someone else doing it, so I keep my idea private until Im ready to start working on it.

I think you may be in for a hard reality check one of these days. Everyone has ideas, million dollar ideas, and excuses as to why they can't implement them.

But only after you've tried to execute them (and failed) will you discover that its not as easy as you think, and that your million dollar ideas were garbage.

If you have a revolutionary idea that could really change politics and you're keeping it for that perfect moment when everything in your life aligns, it's foolish. If the idea has merit, let someone with the time and passion work on bringing it to life and show the impact.

Going to your grave with a pocketful of possibilities is not only a disservice to yourself, but also pretty selfish.

You must be kidding, right?
pretty sure this is sarcasm. good job.
You know, I had an idea like that once. A long time ago. Well, all right. It was a "Jump to Conclusions" mat. You see, it would be this mat that you would put on the floor, and it would have different conclusions written on it that you could jump to.
The PR value of launching a complete product can be higher than trickling out iterations on an idea. "Today we're announcing we think we know how to build a faster database" vs. "Today we're announcing we've built a database that benchmarks 10X faster than MySQL" -- which one gets more headlines?

Of course you could trickle out ideas and then launch, but that risks being regarded as "old news" when you finally do release a product. That's totally unfair but often does happen.

You bring up a good point, but is that really the reason most stealth startups choose the stealth route? Isn't it more common due to them not wanting competitors to start working on their idea?
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Speaking as the co-founder of a startup that's still in 'stealth mode', this is precisely why we haven't launched yet. We reckon that doing a launch event is a one-of-a-kind stimulus. You can't really launch twice, at least not with the same impact. Just like you can take (too much) funding at too early a stage, you can also launch at too early a stage... we want to make sure that we're at a point where we can capitalize on the momentum of a launch event first.
There is a non-trivial PR bump that occurs when a VC-backed company announces its strategy.

Our company is in "stealth mode". We were funded in April, but we would prefer to have our one-time 15 minutes of fame in October, so we'll be waiting until then to "exit stealth mode".

It's a PR hack, essentially.

Another question could be "why are we often being told that ideas are worthless?" IMHO it's because the focus should be on getting things done instead of sitting around while trying to come up with a "perfect" idea. This advice is valid in a specific situation that companies in stealth mode are just not in.
because some people disagree with that idea. I don't.
I wish I had time to write a longer post, but I have to catch my train. Suffice it to say the stealth startup is a relic. It's like waterfall methodology is to agile development. It had its day and its uses, but now there are better ways to create a startup.

Here is a fantastic essay on this very topic: http://www.startuplessonslearned.com/2009/01/achieving-failu...

Because they haven't fully formulated their idea yet.
Because some people think the idea is important and if anyone were to hear it, they would surely copy. However, people don't tend to copy unproven ideas, they see traction then copy.
It should be noted that many of the big names who claim ideas are worthless have a vested interest in you believing that.
I think there are a few rare cases where keeping your idea close to the vest makes sense, but overall I think it's delusional to think your ideas are worth protecting.

Think of it this way: most, if not all ideas have already been thought of by somebody else. Are you damaged by those people having thought of the idea first, or are you damaged by them having executed it first? If they don't execute, then it's just an idea, and therefore it's of no value and of little concern to you. If they do execute, then they have something of value and it's something you should be concerned about.

The thing about ideas is that they are usually very one-dimensional. People will think of "foursquare for dating" like byoung2 mentioned but rarely think past that initial idea to things like what the competitors are, what are the barriers to entry, what will attract users, what type of design will work best, which framework should it be built on, has it been tried before and if so why did it fail, etc.

Of course, once you've answered all those questions you now have more than just an "idea." You have a plan of attack, a strategy, market research, design concepts, historical data, etc. In other words, you actually have something worth protecting.

As far as the bias on Hacker News is concerned, I think a lot of that stems from a couple of things:

First, there are two types of people in the startup world: ideas people and builders (not mutually exclusive, mind you). I think builders get frustrated by ideas people when equal value is put on the thinking up of the idea as the actual building of the idea. I can personally attest to this; I am constantly running into people who have a "great idea" but just need someone to build it (for equity, of course). It's hard not to get angry at those types of propositions. Every now and then I'll run across someone who has genuinely put in a lot of work on the non development/design side of things and has really thought about the ins and outs of an idea, contacted the right people, formed the right partnerships, etc, but it's rare.

Second, everyone on hacker news has ideas. Hundreds of them. I myself come up with at least one good idea a day. Also, a lot of us have acted on quite a few ideas and learned how much more difficult it is to be successful than one might initially assume. We also learn that lot of the mistakes we make with these ideas as we build them out could have been avoided had we subjected the idea to public scrutiny earlier in the development cycle. So when we run across people who are protective of their ideas it makes us scratch our heads - they're missing out on a critical component of becoming successful.

I could probably come up with hundreds of examples of sites that weren't first to market but now dominate, the most obvious being Facebook and Google. If ever there was a better argument for execution over ideas, I haven't seen it.

One final point: most people who have the capability to build good apps would rather work on their own idea, not yours.

Of course, once you've answered all those questions you now have more than just an "idea." You have a plan of attack, a strategy, market research, design concepts, historical data, etc. In other words, you actually have something worth protecting.

So, are you effectively saying that the answer to the opening question is that startups in stealth mode aren't really protecting ideas, but are protecting the plan of attack, the strategy, market research, design concepts, historical data, etc?

This could be true, but do startups which are not in stealth mode really divulge all that info (plan of attack, strategy, market research, etc) to the public? It seems that the difference between stealth mode and non-stealth mode is simply in telling the public what you are working on. This is the knowledge that is deemed, by stealth startups, valuable enough to keep secret, i.e. the knowledge of what they are working on.

Well, it think it depends a lot on who's working in the startup. If it's got several founders of other wildly successful companies attached to it, both in terms of board members and actual employees, then the idea by itself may be worth something. The idea has essentially been fully endorsed by some very knowledgeable people who have had success at picking the right ideas in the past. If the startup is run by a bunch of nobodies, who really cares? Most startups are run by nobodies though, and honestly I could care less what their ideas are unless they've had some great successes in the past.
> honestly I could care less what their ideas are unless they've had some great successes in the past.

That's pretty shallow don't you think?

That came off a bit harsh. I mean, I could care less about stealing their ideas if they haven't got a track record. I obviously find everyone's ideas and startups interesting, otherwise I wouldn't be on HN as often as I am.
"It seems that the difference between stealth mode and non-stealth mode is simply in telling the public what you are working on."

Where "what you are working on" is presented in broad, nebulous terms ("ebay for dogs", or "online video editing").

The previous post mentions Google as an example of execution over ideas, but the idea for Google was not "search engine", but "search engine that uses the following algorithm ..." And there was good reason to keep details secret.

Design concepts are ideas. Plans of attack are ideas. There are lots of ideas based on specific data and current opportunities, and these are the ones people keep quiet about.

When people say ideas are worthless, they mostly seem to be referring to worthless ideas (e.g. "ebay for dogs", which is more of an idea for an idea ), not the ideas behind a tangible implementation or the ideas for successful marketing.

Ideas aren't worthless, but they're not 'excludable' and so there is no market for them. Well, maybe a bit for patents, but that doesn't seem to be a very healthy market...
Here's my 2 cents:

The idea is the execution. An new idea is worthless. It's the refined ideas you arrive at after you've executed a prototype that are worth something. It's because those ideas can be tested and played with and refined. You can't refine a idea without building something first.

So it's not that execution is everything and ideas are nothing - it's that truly good ideas are the result of iteration and execution.

If a competitor knows where you're going, they can focus on stopping you from getting there. If they don't know, they have to play defensively and spread their resources wider.
It is their execution that is in stealth mode not the idea itself and Details of an idea is part of execution.
Couldn't agree more. It's the details of the idea resulting from execution that make all the difference. That part of it should be in stealth.
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An idea is a starting point. That's it. It's like loading the first page into the typewriter for a novel -- the real work has yet to be done, and success is not guaranteed. One reason to keep things private is being able to work (and stumble along) with peace of mind it's unlikely others are doing the hard work of figuring out how to execute correctly. If others know you're working on it, they may take that as the validation they should be working on figuring it out (and possibly failing) too!
It may sound a bit boastful but I know I can find lots of good idea. I keep writing them everywhere. I see new apps coming out with idea I had years ago. And since I realized that, I don't care anymore talking about them.

Talking about ideas actually make them better since you learn if it was really that great.. or you only thought it was great but it's just bad.

Last thing, you start with an idea.. but as you work through, it changes a lot. So, even if someone would start with the same idea, the end product would be totally different. That's also another reason to publish really fast.. you see if your idea was worthwhile and you can improve on it with feedback.

And, real last thing, from my experience, sometime it isn't that bad to be in stealth mode for the "general public" because if you show them something ugly visually, they might just ignore it by thinking it sucks. So what I do is, I show sketches and prototypes, but not the evolution of my prototype. So, people say "Wow" instead of "Hmm, that could be interesting. (Thinking, ugh wtf is that.)".

There's another crucial point here - if you can't get acclaim for your idea without having the product as well, that's a major motivator to get the product working.

So sometimes stealth mode is a good idea in order to make yourself get developing, rather than in order to keep the idea itself from the outside world.

Answer: ideas aren't worthless.

An idea has no value to you if you can't execute, but it has long-term value if you might be able to do so in the future, and it definitely has value to competitors who may wish to execute it now.

[Edit: Also, "ideas are worthless" sounds like the speak of arrogant VCs who want to downplay the importance of entrepreneurs... I've never heard an entrepreneur make such a statement.]

Ideas aren't worthless, they're worth 1/12 of a dime, because "Ideas are a dime a dozen"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_State_Quarters

"The idea of a circulating commemorative has been around the hobby for decades, but frankly, good ideas are a dime a dozen. Far more rare is the ability to move an idea to reality,"

I think if you have an established player who can jump into your area without a large investment it makes sense to keep your project a secret. The initial jump you get on them before they can counter could be enough time to gain some traction.

This probably isn't always the case and I think most of s probably err pretty heavily on the side of caution, I know I can be secretive at times for little real reason. Just would hate to release something then around the same time have a competitor steal the limelight with a release that addresses everything you were doing to differentiate your product.

If your respected and well known, you better keep your novel ideas secret, cause people will try to copy you because they assume your ideas are valuable.

It is not as important when you starting out.

Ideas may be worthless, but information isn't.

Having an idea for a better mousetrap, as a trite example, isn't by itself worth much. It's only valuable if you can build the better mousetrap, build it at a profitable pricepoint, convince the world they need a better mousetrap, etc.

But if you're already in the mousetrap business, the information that a new competitor is planning to launch a better mousetrap might be very valuable information.

The point of "stealth mode" is timing. You can gain significant market advantage by springing the surprise on your (potential) competitors instead of giving them X months advance notice of your plans and ideas.

Prominent recent example: ipad 2010. It was rumored alright, still I bet it led to significant constipation at Plastic Logic, Microsoft, or Amazon, not to mention all those netbook builders. To think that Plastic Logic thought they could get away with a price point of more than the iPad's 500 USD for a mere reading device... Now they are scrambling, and perhaps they will find a viable strategy in the future, but still, they are all "behind the curve", and that has as much to do with Apple's execution as with the fact that Apple didn't announce its plans for the iPad 18 months before introduction.

To clarify: "Timing" of a "surprise" implies that the competition's ignorance is to your advsntage. This implies, by proxy, that the core idea has value.
I thought the ipad caught the competition off guard not because of the timing, people have made slate tablets before, but because of the pricing. When rumours of the ipad started to float around, most people seemed to believe it would be a ~$1000 device.
Being the first on a new market has many advantages. It doesn't guarantee long term success, but — many times — it has proven to be worth it. For ideas that don't require heavy investments in infrastructure, and with the abundance of open source clones of commercial software, the "time to market" has decreased tremendously and matters even more. A good execution will make your idea shine, and being first to release it doesn't hurt either, hence the stealth mode.