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Ask HN: How to eat and drink properly?

35 points by _1tan ↗ HN
I know the basic gist - avoid sugar, count calories, watch salt and carb intake, maintain a high level of activity, ... . There seems to be so much to consider, so many micro nutrients and other things to keep in mind. How does a hacker keep track of all this?

63 comments

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DKnoll
You shouldn't avoid sugar, you need it to live; glucose is the fuel your body runs on.

I assume you mean refined sugar.

dpark
You don't have to have sugar to live. It's not an essential nutrient.
DKnoll
You don't need to consume simple sugar to live, but carbohydrates will metabolise to glucose in your body regardless.
miguelrochefort
You don't even need carbohydrates.

Ketones are an alternative to glucose.

Proteins can be converted to glucose.

fsociety
This is not true and proven again and again with people in hardcore keto. On a similar note though, the best diet is the one you can keep on doing.
ecshafer
Your body can turn fat into glucose by gluconeogenesis.

Sugar is okay if and only if there is a high fiber count as well. Ketogenic and Paleolithic diets show that high sugar intake, especially with breads, grains, and refined sugar is not healthy and not necessary.

DKnoll
It's (eating a lot of bread and grains) necessary for the majority of the planet that cannot afford such a diet.
jogjayr
That's not necessarily true. Peanuts and oils from other vegetable sources (canola, mustard, soybean, corn, coconut) are full of fat, cheap to grow and reasonably healthy. Beans, legumes, eggs and dairy are protein-rich and also quite cheap. Keto doesn't have to mean steak and bacon-wrapped shrimp every meal.
dario_insane
sorry for the rant..

looking at human history it was starches that kept people surviving and striving. there is no real long term data on keto diets. i personally experimented with high/low carb and the simplified gist is: low carb works because you take away the carbs. high carb works because you take away the fat. protein doesn't really matter. but see for example "whole" from campbell on the potentially negative effect of excess protein. excess is pretty much more than 5-10%. look at graham and many more wfpb 80/10/10 athletes.

anyway, i'm currently on high carb, wfpb, tropical fruit. eating sometimes 5000 kcals a day. exercising less than an hour a day. max 5 days a week. spending rest of time at the computer. keeping my weight. 44 years btw.

there seem to be non-trivial relationships between the macros. and you need to look at the micro nutrients if you want to support long term health.

if you look at how much sicker the general population gets, it's really hard to argue that dairy, eggs and meat are really "healthy". only the greens in keto diets will compensate for the negative effects of animal products. again, see whole, and how not to die and many more. in there you find (by now thousands! of) studies on this. get rid of animal products and stick to fruits and vegetables if you prefer raw food, or starches and vegetables otherwise to avoid burdening your body in the first place.

i really don't get how this knowledge has not reach "the computer people". i understand how the industries control the government and "the general population". but "us guys and gals" have the information at our finger tips. so weird.. :-) read up on how the tobacco industry fought like 50 years ago. the same is happening with meat etc. eventually they will have to add the same labels to meat etc like we see on cigarettes today. the government websites already contain warnings about meat, dairy and eggs causing cancer. the industry pays a lot of money to keep the government from promoting a healthy diet.

well.. main issue i see with high carb wfpb is that people at some point are really too sick to properly digest grains etc. that's why keto diets work so well for many people. let's wait and see about their long term effect. (then again, on a personal note, i'm hoping all these meat-promoting keto people die of cancer sooner rather than later. it's a karma thing. the cruelty against helpless creatures in meat dairy and egg farms.. not cool.. no matter what you may believe.. not cool..) anyway, i was really f*ed up from unhealthy eating for like 30 years. i got rid of my 30+ years allergies and chronic sinusitis by water and juice fasting for two months. and i settled with a high carb wfpb 80-100% raw diet. raw because i have access to fresh tropical fruits. which isn't a given for everyone in germany.. :-) feeling really good so far. on a side note: but i do consider trying out the Dr. Nun Amen-Ra diet at some point.

nxsynonym
Define your goals, find out your TDEE, adjust your daily calorie consumption, then replace staple foods with healthier options.

Trying to do everything at once is guaranteed to make you hate dieting and fall off the bandwagon quickly.

For example: if you want to lose weight, find out your TDEE - 350--500 calories. Spend two or three weeks trying stick to that total amount, without worry too much about changing everything you eat. Just get used to a different amount. Once you have that down, start swapping out big meals with healthier foods, then snacks.

Also, meal prep. It will help curb impulse meals and poor snack choices if you don't have to think about it.

juice_bus
> find out your TDEE - 350--500 calories

This has worked very well for me, I stated on May 15th and I am down 35lbs/16kg [1]. Curbing cravings and not eating at night have been the hardest obstacles to overcome.

[1] http://i.imgur.com/WZBgzXH.png

nxsynonym
congrats! 35 lbs is no joke.

I practice IF, just works with my natural eating habits. Was never a breakfast person but giving up eating late night snacks has also been tough for me.

The hardest part is trusting the process of cutting and sticking to it even when not seeing immediate results.

cjsuk
I have a dead simple method. If I'm hungry I drink water. If I'm still hungry after I drank water then I eat a modest amount of what I fancy. Most of the time this will end up being something I need rather than something I want which is always the problem with eating properly.

The human body is pretty good at telling you what it needs.

I've eaten a banana, pear, cereal, chicken and rice today and drank about 2L of water. Feel fantastic :)

MrTonyD
I happened to be watching a PBS show that mentioned Caldwell Esselstyn and the diet he recommends (he is a heart surgeon.) I was blown away by how much I misunderstood about a good diet. Lots of the standard "good diet" advice now looks like "fad" to me (eg. Mediterranean as a role model - since it really only shines in comparison to our horrible Western diet.) Of course, now it is even harder to eat a good diet...

Perhaps his key observation is the relationship between oils and so many of our modern diseases. I do suspect that some oils have benefits which outweigh the costs (a subtlety which isn't reflected by his coarse data) For example I suspect that oils from Salmon and Walnuts may have benefits yet to be fully quantified.

52-6F-62
I don't often dig into the details too often. I rely on my physician and blood work to keep me updated on any deficiencies (B12, and as a consequence, Iron).

I had the benefit of growing up in a green belt, so there was a lot of food agriculture and farmers markets, produce stands, and the local grocer received shipments from chain warehouses as well as local farmers.

Growing up we didn't have a lot of money so we prioritized fresh and cooked vegetables (nothing special, just plenty of dark greens and kept some variety). Meat was often lean ground or pork then, and I kept my meat rations pretty lean (though later opting for more chicken and beef) until my doctor instructed me to eat more red meat.

That's pretty much it. Limit carbs but don't cut them out. Don't count calories too closely because it makes living dreary, just keep a ballpark. With enough exercise it shouldn't matter anyway.

I was in high-performance sports in my teens, and this was pretty typical. Just eat balanced for your needs, a lot of vegetables (esp. dark greens of your preference), plenty of water, and plenty of exercise and if you like beer you don't have to give it up. I didn't see much in the way of obsessive diets and protein powders and supplements outside of a few guys who went crazy on creatine and later cut it out due to less than desirable outcomes.

Nutritionists I've known have generally shared similar sentiment. Beyond working out any details they do, their advice to me has always been more general and simple. That's totally circumstantial, though.

I also take a multivitamin and a B12 to keep up on anything that falls out of balance.

On the other hand, my brother who was never the type recently went vegan for his wife and swears he feels better than he ever has. And he has to keep up with physically-demanding continental shifts on a provincial police service. So there's that...

DKnoll
Exercise is more important than diet for overall health and longevity. Obviously all habits contribute but people put a (temporary) focus on their diet and forget everything else in my own experience.
graphitezepp
An important point that often gets lost even in "correct" (for lack of a better word) discussions of what is healthy. Generally it's better to be quite overweight and active than look good and be sedentary afaik.
darioush
s/Exercise/The habit of exercising to moderate exhaustion regularly/

Then I agree.

noodle
Eat a variety of foods in your diet and most of the micronutrient stuff works itself out. You have a problem when you stick to a regimented meal plan, always eating the same sets of foods. If you're worried about it, grab a multivitamin.

Other than that, it depends on how heavily you want to keep track and for what purpose.

dario_insane
You want to look at Mc Dougall's Starch Solution. It can be argued (studies included) that a few foods are enough if you consume enough of it. Potatoes are an example.

I'm not saying you should only eat a few foods. But Adding multi vitamins has been shown to be somewhat more on the detrimental side. See for example How Not To Die by Dr Greger.

Just my two cents..

Broken_Hippo
You don't. You don't even count calories, as those vary widely compared to the count on the package/menu.

It seems it comes down to this: Eat a variety off foods. Get some protein sometimes, eat fruits and veg. Try to get whole grains in there. Watch the added and refined sugar, regardless of source, but there is no need to avoid it entirely. Make sure to eat some fat and dairy. Heck, even high activity isn't necessary if you make the right life adjustments (like walking most places) or have the right sort of job. Cook your own food, and develop a few flexible meals that are easy and nutritious. Stir fries and the like come to mind.

The real trick is the personalisation. For myself, I'm hungrier in the evening so I eat lightly during the day. I skip breakfast (I'm not hungry). I eat fish but not other meats, but this is mostly due to the lack of a gallbladder. I also had to learn to be more comfortable with hunger. I did this with a combination of delaying snacks (it is easy to tell yourself to wait a short time) and working on portion sizes. The last one was simple: I'd eat a portion, and be done. I always knew if I was hungry in an hour or two, I could get a healthy snack. The snack rarely equals the food I'd have eaten if I got more on the plate, so it works.

And just to be fair: At one time, I weight over 200 pounds. I'm a 5'6" woman. I now am fully in a healthy weight and trend towards thin. I'm don't know my weight, but i'm about a size 6(US) and have kept the weight off for years with only minor fluctuations.

Edit: I should mention that I didn't keep good records, just observed my general diet and made improvements and adjustments.

TurboHaskal
Drink water.

Eat animal products when hungry. Ignore the fat content (don't purposely eat too much nor too little.)

Eat fruit and plants, but not too many.

If you're happy with your body composition (can you see your abs?), add complex carbs to your meals (rice, bread, potatoes, etc) and liquid calories such as milk or kefir.

It's okay to eat junk from time to time.

dario_insane
Consider reading Whole by Campbell, How Not To Die by Greger, Starch Solution by McDougall, End of all Diets by Fuhrman.

Promoting animal products seems to be somewhat en vogue.

But please open your eyes and look at the data, the history of the human race (starch based!), and for the love of "god" (ie the universe with all that it contains, not the religious kind), look at the cruelty against animals. Bad karma. Really bad karma.

And considering that the human population nowadays with meat, dairy and eggs in their diet is getting sicker and sicker (studies, numbers, all there for you - just have to look), maybe animal products aren't exactly on the safe side..

:-/

miguelrochefort
I often recommend people to "reset" their diet.

For 30 consecutive days:

- Think of food as a source of nutrients, not pleasure.

- Only eat once a day.

- Only eat beef.

- Only drink water.

After 30 days, introduce 1 new ingredient a week.

salehk
To simplify my life, instead of micro counting calories an nutrients i've setup some simple rules for myself.

1. Eat out as little as possible cook everything at home, so I know exactly what is going into my body. 2. Make sure I eat a salad or a meal that includes vegetables once a day. 3. SHAKES!!! I make shakes daily a great way to get nutrients and fill yourself up. My shakes generally contain (berries, banana, power greens mix, plant protien, soy/almond milk). 4. Excercise daily. 5. Take a multi-vitamin (optional)

jules
If you don't find shakes appetising you could eat the berries separately, and make a salad with the greens and plant protein, and eat some almonds, and skip the bananas. Eating it in this form will also be more filling with fewer calories.
icc97
Going vegetarian is what I did, for moral reasons primarily, but it has lots of health benefits.

Assuming that you want to do it properly, that is you want to replace meat with various vegetables, nuts, and beans etc that provide protein you automatically increase your intake of healthy foods.

You can of course just eat chips, cheese and margerita pizza which won't help. But being vegetarian does open your eyes to a wider variety of food than just meat + x (e,g. buger + fries). Meat is so tasty on it's own that you can ignore other things.

By going vegetarian I don't have to count calories, I've actually struggled to keep weight on since going full vegetarian, when I had been gaining weight prior to that.

Plus you don't even have to go fully vegetarian, purely just reduce meat intake and up vegetable/bean/nut intake.

treehau5
> Plus you don't even have to go fully vegetarian, purely just reduce meat intake and up vegetable/bean/nut intake.

Echoing this. Also, Mediterranean diet is still the best diet if not based on current nutritional trends, but also anecdotal evidence (The most places with the highest life expectancies are clustered around the Mediterranean)

mohaine
I've seen lots of people try and it does seem to work for weight loss short turn but the effect does not seem to last. At some point you start liking the food and weight comes right back. (ditto for pretty much any special diet)

As for the health benefits, I'm not so sure there either. I eat a mostly meat diet and my wife has been vegan for last 10 years and vegetarian for the 15 years before that and my numbers are better pretty much across the board.

Sure it seems like a vegetarian diet should be better for you but with nutritional science in the state it is it is hard to know much of anything for sure.

dario_insane
Consider reading Whole by Campbell and Starch Solution by McDougall. Add How Not To Die by Greger and if you want some more add End of all Diets by Fuhrman.

The gist: Limit the fats. If your exercising and/or are at least moderately active, you can have some more nuts and seeds etc. But if you're sitting at the computer all day, limit fats to the absolute minimum. Eat lots of carbs. The body will not turn them into fat. Lot's of studies (100 years+) on this. Just open your eyes and read online and the books I mentioned.

Funny example: Oven chips vs french fries. Prefer oven chips with <= 2% fat and your "OK". Steamed potatoes with zero fat are, of course, better in this context.

Not saying keto diets (meat based or not, but protein+fat instead of starchy/sugary carbs based) don't work. Just really bad karma with the cruelty against animals in meat farms etc. Not cool. Not cool. Anyway, long term data isn't there yet on keto diets. And generally speaking: The world is getting sicker. And Campbell & Co seem to hint at food - mainly animal products - are the cause. McDougall etc show that the human race survived and thrived on starch. (Low fat! Actually.)

Consider this..

Vegetarian or vegan means little. WFPB (whole food plant based) is a better term. And find your sugars and starches under this WFPB umbrella and your good. These foods have only little amount of natural fat. Look at WFPB / 80/10/10 athletes for examples..

Just my two cents..

DanBC
If you're a woman wanting to become pregnant you'll need to pay extra attention to some vitamins. Take a folic acid supplement until 12 weeks. Consider taking a vitamin D supplement. Avoid too much Vitamin A.

Many people should consider whether to take a Vitamin D supplement.

I tend to agree with other people - eat a variety of fruit and vegetables, small amounts of meat or fish or alternatives for protein.

findoer
I tried to figure this out a few weeks ago and was similarly confused. A lot of people on the internet seem to promote extreme diets, (paleo, veganism, etc.) but these guys also seem to open themselves up to really weird health problems (ex. Gout, rapid tooth wear & decay for vegans).

Anyway, since I didn't want to spend all my time researching this or become a doctor, I just looked up the USDA guidelines and tried to eat more in line with that.

3 meals a day, minimal snacking, home-cooked food, ~2400 calories per day (for my body & weight loss goals), 3+ servings vegetables, 2-3 servings fruits, 2-4 servings dairy, some meats and eggs, etc.

The USDA site even gives you recommendations to eat certain amounts of specific types of vegetables weekly (greens, starchy vegetables, orange vegetables, etc.) which I assume is an attempt to abstract things out a bit so we can worry less about levels of specific micronutrients

There's also an app called MyFitnessPal that lets you log food intake by scanning barcodes with your phone's camera and tracks some nutrients (vitamin a, c, potassium, iron, a few more)

limitpoint
Can only speak for myself. I have only one rule with respect to diet: everything is ok but fried(sauteed, blanched in oil, deep fried, browned, stir-fried, whatever)stuff. Non-fried(steamed, bolied, raw?) fats are ok. Sugar in moderation is not gonna kill me. Works for me.
hxmc
I'm seeing a lot of "make sure you eat meat/dairy products" here. Are animal products necessary for a balanced diet?
bhnmmhmd
One good advice to remember is to avoid eating egg-based food when you don't have much movement (like when sitting at the table or before sleep). This is also important when you're on an airplane for hours.
JoshMnem
Learn how to cook your own food from scratch. Focus on whole foods, especially vegetables and fruit. You can meal prep in advance by steaming a lot of vegetables, storing them in separate containers, and then chopping and mixing them with sauce to create various other dishes quickly.

Soup is also quick and easy. A pressure cooker or slow cooker can speed up the prep.

Brown rice, buckwheat, amaranth seeds, and quinoa provide additional nutrients. I don't think that "carbs" are bad -- only refined carbs. A rice cooker or pressure cooker is useful.

I think that if one only eats high-nutrient foods, there is less need to worry about the details.

I went from 215 pounds down to a healthy 145 (currently 150). There are some examples of my food experiments in my blog: https://blog.artofmemory.com/tag/food-and-nutrition

trjordan
The only diet that works is the one you stick to. So figure out the combination of what drives you and what you can live with, and do that.

For me, I fall apart when I'm hungry. So my diet is based around "efficient" foods (most fullness for least calories) and easy-to-follow guidelines that I can fall back on when I'm too hungry to think straight.

- Protein makes me full. Lean protein makes me stupid full.

- Vegetables make me feel like I've had a real meal. It's hard to add so much oil or butter to a vegetable to make the calories matter.

- I can eat infinite carbs. Carbs + fat is an easy way to put down 2,000 calories in a single meal.

- Most places have a salad. When in doubt, order the salad. Add protein.

- Cooking at home means meat + veggie. I make whatever I want, as long as it's meat + veggie.

- Breakfast doesn't make me full for long. Coffee is equally effective.

Figure out what works for you! Maybe keto is easy to follow. Maybe lifting makes you crave fewer pizzas. Maybe you can outrun your food habits by training for marathons. Maybe you should eat 7 meals a day, 3 of which are soylent.

It's all about the habit. If you can figure out what the happy output is, optimize for the fewest inputs that get you there.

georgewsinger
nutritionfacts.org for science-based nutritional advice.
cirgue
Drink lots of water, eat a wide variety of mostly non-processed food, find physical activities that are fun and engaging enough that you will do them for entertainment.
stusmall
This is probably the worst site to ask. The replies will range from Soylent to Doritos to vegan without much moderate voices in between. A lot of insurance plans will completely cover a visit to a nutritionist or talk to your GP. Don't listen to the fads and hysteria on the internet that offer diets that are simple to describe but hard to live by.
Broken_Hippo
I'd like to emphasis the bit about fad diets. My own personal rule of thumb is to not try any diet that I couldn't keep up for 10 years. Especially if the diet cuts out some of your favorite foods. This cuts out a lot of them. My main exception to this is anything health related (diabetes, allergies, etc), but at that point you've already talked to the GP. Otherwise, you don't have a diagnosis or confirmed medical condition.
kidsil
Don't get diet advice from engineers.

I appreciate the interest in knowing what your virtual colleagues do, but honestly some topics covered on Ask HN simply cannot be answered with the same expertise as tech related questions.