I feel like going vegetarian was a wake up/"ah-ha" moment for myself. I don't think of myself as making healthy food choices. I think of myself as realizing what I should have been eating all along.
Recently been struggling with not the guilt that I'm killing and eating animals but rather the fact that in factory farms, we are encouraging the rapid raping of animals, forcing them to have children and then rapidly killing off their children, and repeating this process. All while restricting the space that they get to live in. We always want a humane way to end an animal or pest's life but I'm not too sure a factory farm is a humane way to live.
That said, I understand that humans need meat to survive but its why I'm experimenting with vegatarianism.
because I'm getting downvoted, I'll add proof. because hn doesn't do markdown, I can't add the links, but if you search for them you will find the sources on google, ddg whatever.
All the major dietetics and health organizations in the world agree that vegan and vegetarian diets are just as healthy as omnivorous diets. Here are links to what some of them have to say on the subject:
Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics
It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes.
Dietitians of Canada
A well planned vegan diet can meet all of these needs. It is safe and healthy for pregnant and breastfeeding women, babies, children, teens and seniors.
The British National Health Service
With good planning and an understanding of what makes up a healthy, balanced vegan diet, you can get all the nutrients your body needs.
The British Nutrition Foundation
A well-planned, balanced vegetarian or vegan diet can be nutritionally adequate ... Studies of UK vegetarian and vegan children have revealed that their growth and development are within the normal range.
The Dietitians Association of Australia
Vegan diets are a type of vegetarian diet, where only plant-based foods are eaten. They differ to other vegetarian diets in that no animal products are usually consumed or used. Despite these restrictions, with good planning it is still possible to obtain all the nutrients required for good health on a vegan diet.
The United States Department of Agriculture
Vegetarian diets (see context) can meet all the recommendations for nutrients. The key is to consume a variety of foods and the right amount of foods to meet your calorie needs. Follow the food group recommendations for your age, sex, and activity level to get the right amount of food and the variety of foods needed for nutrient adequacy. Nutrients that vegetarians may need to focus on include protein, iron, calcium, zinc, and vitamin B12.
The National Health and Medical Research Council
Alternatives to animal foods include nuts, seeds, legumes, beans and tofu. For all Australians, these foods increase dietary variety and can provide a valuable, affordable source of protein and other nutrients found in meats. These foods are also particularly important for those who follow vegetarian or vegan dietary patterns. Australians following a vegetarian diet can still meet nutrient requirements if energy needs are met and the appropriate number and variety of serves from the Five Food Groups are eaten throughout the day. For those eating a vegan diet, supplementation of B12 is recommended.
The Mayo Clinic
A well-planned vegetarian diet (see context) can meet the needs of people of all ages, including children, teenagers, and pregnant or breast-feeding women. The key is to be aware of your nutritional needs so that you plan a diet that meets them.
The Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada
Vegetarian diets (see context) can provide all the nutrients you need at any age, as well as some additional health benefits.
Harvard Medical School
Traditionally, research into vegetarianism focused mainly on potential nutritional deficiencies, but in recent years, the pendulum has swung the other way, and studies are confirming the health benefits of meat-free eating. Nowadays, plant-based eating is recognized as not only nutritionally sufficient but also as a way to reduce the risk for many chronic illnesses.
British Dietetic Association
Well planned vegetarian diets (see context) can be nutritious and healthy. They are associated with lower risks of heart disease, high blood pressure, Type 2 diabetes, obesity, certain cancers and lower cholesterol levels. This could be because such diets are lower in saturated fat, ...
I have been having veggies and fruits and have cut out sugar (especially white sugar) since Jan 2015. After getting more strict about this diet as well as my body weight exercise since May 16 this year, I have been losing between 50 gms to 100 gms of body fat per day. I check on a digital weighing scale that reports weight in kilos and pounds, BMI, body fat %, muscle %, water % and bone density.
About B12: It is produced in human and animal gut by bacteria that is present in soil. The B12 in our gut is too far down to be injected. This bacteria needs the mineral cobalt. See [1][2][3]
I was also surprised to learn that there is no religious "mandate" of sacrificing animals. See the Vegan Muslim Initiative [4]. I have not yet researched what the other religions say about the killing of animals.
I am of the opinion that even if a religious book were to deem it acceptable to kill animals, we today have the means to live off plants and the awareness and experience to know that various animals are sentient. We can continue to put ourselves first without requiring that we take an animal's life for this.
re: b12, good point, you should take a b12 supplement if you are eating vegan. It's a good thing they are cheap, easy to take and effective! and most people are low in b12, so even if you are a meat-eater, it's good to take a supplement as well
As an Indian it always amuses me to see folks in western nations tying themselves in knots over the vegeterianism debates. The possibility of eating a 100 percent veg diet never raises the kind of reaction that I see around here since its a way of life for a huge number of people in India.
There are a wealth of lentil protiens, plants and fruits supplemented by milk based side items like yoghurt and cottage cheese which provide for the possibility of having a vegan only lifestyle. This is more driven by meat centric recipes and food culture prevalent here and the subsequent lack of vegeterian food culture. There are bazillion recipes involving yellow, green, black lentils of all kinds, chickpeas, beans, dried peas, okra, eggplants, multiple gourds, there are tons of veggies I barely remember the english names of and then the whole gamut of wheat breads. naans, rotis, flaky fried pan breads coupled with all kinds of rice preps, basmati rice, biryanis, the pilafs and pulaos, coconut, maize etc etc. So not only there are tons of vegeterian options, there are all great tasting options. Here eating vegan is like "meh tastimg food".
In my home backnin Delhi, cooking chicken was reserved for special occasions once or twice a month and the daily diet was all Vegan. It was only after I moved abroad was the need to have a "meat protien" daily became part of the conversation. Everytime I hear this debate I go like, "you guys have no idea how good tasting vegeterian food can be outside your country". I see that its driven historically by availability of meat recipes only and meat has played a central part in western cuisines. For me, I can easily glide into full Steak and Pork chops chowing mode from pure vegan recipes for a full month without skipping a beat just because I have exposure to a larger set of cuisines and recipes. or it may just be an Asian thing.
…n factory farms, we are encouraging the rapid raping of animals, forcing them to have children and then rapidly killing off their children, and repeating this process. All while restricting the space that they get to live in.
Have you considered that it might be feasible to eat better meat that doesn’t have these attributes? High-quality, free-range, organic meat is quite widely available - if it’s from a local farm, even better!
sure! I've got access to a resource bank that has a ton of philosophical papers on the topic of veganism etc. The vast majority are pro, but there are some anti. because hn doesn't do markdown, I'm just gonna paste the names, if you want to read the papers have a search and you should find them.
"A Moral Argument for Veganism" Dan Hooley, Nathan Nobis (General animal ethics, pro vegan, deductive argument)
"The Ethical Basis for Veganism" Tristram McPherson (General animal ethics, pro vegan)
"How to Argue for (and against) Ethical Veganism" Tristram McPherson
"Why I am a vegan (and you should be one too)" Tristram McPherson (General animal Ethics, pro vegan)
"A Case for Ethical Veganism: Intuitive and methodological consideration" Tristram McPherson (pro, general, methodology in ethics, debunking arguments)
NOTE to access McPherson's papers, click the arrow icon in the upper-right hand of the screen and then download.
"SCHOPENHAUER ON THE RIGHTS OF ANIMALS" Stephen Puryear (Animal ethics, animal rights view based on sentience, pro vegn)
"Sentience, Rationality, and Moral Status: A Further Reply to Hsiao" Stephen Puryear (Animal ethics, sentience view, deductive argument, reply to rationality needed for moral status)
NOTE Professor Puryear will be doing an AMA on r/philosophy November 14th
"In Defense of Eating Meat" Timothy Hsiao (Animal ethics, anti-vegan, animals have no moral status)
"PUPPIES, PIGS, AND PEOPLE: EATING MEAT AND MARGINAL CASES" Alastair Norcross (General animal ethics, pro-vegan)
"The Comparative Badness for Animals of Suffering and Death" Jeff McMahan (Animal ethics, humane omnivorism, badness of death discussion, pretty pro vegan)
"Eating animals the nice way" Jeff McMahan (Animal ethics, arguments for and against humane omnivorism, pro-vegan)
"Animals" Jeff McMahan (animal ethics, pro vegan)
"Moral Vegetarianism from a Very Broad Basis" David DeGrazia (animal ethics, pro vegan)
"Animal Pain and Welfare: can pain sometimes be worse for them than for us" Sahar Akhtar (animal ethics, animal pain)
"The Case Against Meat" Ben Bramble (animal ethics, deductive argument, pro vegan)
"A Kantian Case for Animal Rights" Christine M. Korsgaard" (animal ethics, pro vegan, deontological argument)
"Kantian Ethics, Animals, and the Law" Christine M Korsgaard (animal ethics, animal rights discussion, animals and the law discussion)
"Fellow Creatures: Kantian Ethics and Our Duties to Animals" CHRISTINE M. KORSGAARD (animal ethics, deontological, pro vegan)
"INTERACTING WITH ANIMALS: A KANTIAN ACCOUNT" christine m. korsgaard (animal ethics, deontological, pro vegan)
"Is it Wrong to Eat Meat from Factory Farms? If So, Why?" Mark Bryant Budolfson (animal ethics, kinda pro-vegan, kinda anti-vegan)
"Consumer Ethics, Harm Footprints, and the Empirical Dimensions of Food Choices" Mark Budolfson (animal ethics, ethical consumerism, harm footprints, environmental footprints, kinda anti-vegan, kinda pro-vegan, helpful chart
"The Inefficacy Objection to Consequentialism and the Problem with the Expected Consequences Response" Mark Budolfson (animal ethics, inefficacy objection, rather anti-vegan, anti-utilitarian)
16 comments
[ 2.7 ms ] story [ 54.5 ms ] threadThirteen locations in the Boston area.
That said, I understand that humans need meat to survive but its why I'm experimenting with vegatarianism.
We don't. All the major dietetic organisations agree that you can be perfectly healthy on a vegetarian/vegan diet.
All the major dietetics and health organizations in the world agree that vegan and vegetarian diets are just as healthy as omnivorous diets. Here are links to what some of them have to say on the subject:
Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics
It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Dietitians of Canada
A well planned vegan diet can meet all of these needs. It is safe and healthy for pregnant and breastfeeding women, babies, children, teens and seniors. The British National Health Service
With good planning and an understanding of what makes up a healthy, balanced vegan diet, you can get all the nutrients your body needs. The British Nutrition Foundation
A well-planned, balanced vegetarian or vegan diet can be nutritionally adequate ... Studies of UK vegetarian and vegan children have revealed that their growth and development are within the normal range. The Dietitians Association of Australia
Vegan diets are a type of vegetarian diet, where only plant-based foods are eaten. They differ to other vegetarian diets in that no animal products are usually consumed or used. Despite these restrictions, with good planning it is still possible to obtain all the nutrients required for good health on a vegan diet. The United States Department of Agriculture
Vegetarian diets (see context) can meet all the recommendations for nutrients. The key is to consume a variety of foods and the right amount of foods to meet your calorie needs. Follow the food group recommendations for your age, sex, and activity level to get the right amount of food and the variety of foods needed for nutrient adequacy. Nutrients that vegetarians may need to focus on include protein, iron, calcium, zinc, and vitamin B12. The National Health and Medical Research Council
Alternatives to animal foods include nuts, seeds, legumes, beans and tofu. For all Australians, these foods increase dietary variety and can provide a valuable, affordable source of protein and other nutrients found in meats. These foods are also particularly important for those who follow vegetarian or vegan dietary patterns. Australians following a vegetarian diet can still meet nutrient requirements if energy needs are met and the appropriate number and variety of serves from the Five Food Groups are eaten throughout the day. For those eating a vegan diet, supplementation of B12 is recommended. The Mayo Clinic
A well-planned vegetarian diet (see context) can meet the needs of people of all ages, including children, teenagers, and pregnant or breast-feeding women. The key is to be aware of your nutritional needs so that you plan a diet that meets them. The Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada
Vegetarian diets (see context) can provide all the nutrients you need at any age, as well as some additional health benefits. Harvard Medical School
Traditionally, research into vegetarianism focused mainly on potential nutritional deficiencies, but in recent years, the pendulum has swung the other way, and studies are confirming the health benefits of meat-free eating. Nowadays, plant-based eating is recognized as not only nutritionally sufficient but also as a way to reduce the risk for many chronic illnesses. British Dietetic Association
Well planned vegetarian diets (see context) can be nutritious and healthy. They are associated with lower risks of heart disease, high blood pressure, Type 2 diabetes, obesity, certain cancers and lower cholesterol levels. This could be because such diets are lower in saturated fat, ...
About B12: It is produced in human and animal gut by bacteria that is present in soil. The B12 in our gut is too far down to be injected. This bacteria needs the mineral cobalt. See [1][2][3]
I was also surprised to learn that there is no religious "mandate" of sacrificing animals. See the Vegan Muslim Initiative [4]. I have not yet researched what the other religions say about the killing of animals.
I am of the opinion that even if a religious book were to deem it acceptable to kill animals, we today have the means to live off plants and the awareness and experience to know that various animals are sentient. We can continue to put ourselves first without requiring that we take an animal's life for this.
[1] https://www.riseofthevegan.com/blog/b12-is-not-just-a-vegan-... [2] https://www.vegansociety.com/resources/nutrition-and-health/... [3] https://www.vegansociety.com/resources/nutrition-and-health/... [4] https://veganmuslims.com
There are a wealth of lentil protiens, plants and fruits supplemented by milk based side items like yoghurt and cottage cheese which provide for the possibility of having a vegan only lifestyle. This is more driven by meat centric recipes and food culture prevalent here and the subsequent lack of vegeterian food culture. There are bazillion recipes involving yellow, green, black lentils of all kinds, chickpeas, beans, dried peas, okra, eggplants, multiple gourds, there are tons of veggies I barely remember the english names of and then the whole gamut of wheat breads. naans, rotis, flaky fried pan breads coupled with all kinds of rice preps, basmati rice, biryanis, the pilafs and pulaos, coconut, maize etc etc. So not only there are tons of vegeterian options, there are all great tasting options. Here eating vegan is like "meh tastimg food".
In my home backnin Delhi, cooking chicken was reserved for special occasions once or twice a month and the daily diet was all Vegan. It was only after I moved abroad was the need to have a "meat protien" daily became part of the conversation. Everytime I hear this debate I go like, "you guys have no idea how good tasting vegeterian food can be outside your country". I see that its driven historically by availability of meat recipes only and meat has played a central part in western cuisines. For me, I can easily glide into full Steak and Pork chops chowing mode from pure vegan recipes for a full month without skipping a beat just because I have exposure to a larger set of cuisines and recipes. or it may just be an Asian thing.
Have you considered that it might be feasible to eat better meat that doesn’t have these attributes? High-quality, free-range, organic meat is quite widely available - if it’s from a local farm, even better!
http://philosophy.rutgers.edu/joomlatools-files/docman-files...
It really opened my eyes when I read it. :)
"A Moral Argument for Veganism" Dan Hooley, Nathan Nobis (General animal ethics, pro vegan, deductive argument)
"The Ethical Basis for Veganism" Tristram McPherson (General animal ethics, pro vegan)
"How to Argue for (and against) Ethical Veganism" Tristram McPherson
"Why I am a vegan (and you should be one too)" Tristram McPherson (General animal Ethics, pro vegan)
"A Case for Ethical Veganism: Intuitive and methodological consideration" Tristram McPherson (pro, general, methodology in ethics, debunking arguments)
NOTE to access McPherson's papers, click the arrow icon in the upper-right hand of the screen and then download.
"SCHOPENHAUER ON THE RIGHTS OF ANIMALS" Stephen Puryear (Animal ethics, animal rights view based on sentience, pro vegn)
"Sentience, Rationality, and Moral Status: A Further Reply to Hsiao" Stephen Puryear (Animal ethics, sentience view, deductive argument, reply to rationality needed for moral status)
NOTE Professor Puryear will be doing an AMA on r/philosophy November 14th
"In Defense of Eating Meat" Timothy Hsiao (Animal ethics, anti-vegan, animals have no moral status)
"PUPPIES, PIGS, AND PEOPLE: EATING MEAT AND MARGINAL CASES" Alastair Norcross (General animal ethics, pro-vegan)
"The Comparative Badness for Animals of Suffering and Death" Jeff McMahan (Animal ethics, humane omnivorism, badness of death discussion, pretty pro vegan)
"Eating animals the nice way" Jeff McMahan (Animal ethics, arguments for and against humane omnivorism, pro-vegan)
"Animals" Jeff McMahan (animal ethics, pro vegan)
"Moral Vegetarianism from a Very Broad Basis" David DeGrazia (animal ethics, pro vegan)
"Animal Pain and Welfare: can pain sometimes be worse for them than for us" Sahar Akhtar (animal ethics, animal pain)
"The Case Against Meat" Ben Bramble (animal ethics, deductive argument, pro vegan)
"A Kantian Case for Animal Rights" Christine M. Korsgaard" (animal ethics, pro vegan, deontological argument)
"Kantian Ethics, Animals, and the Law" Christine M Korsgaard (animal ethics, animal rights discussion, animals and the law discussion)
"Fellow Creatures: Kantian Ethics and Our Duties to Animals" CHRISTINE M. KORSGAARD (animal ethics, deontological, pro vegan)
"INTERACTING WITH ANIMALS: A KANTIAN ACCOUNT" christine m. korsgaard (animal ethics, deontological, pro vegan)
"Is it Wrong to Eat Meat from Factory Farms? If So, Why?" Mark Bryant Budolfson (animal ethics, kinda pro-vegan, kinda anti-vegan)
"Consumer Ethics, Harm Footprints, and the Empirical Dimensions of Food Choices" Mark Budolfson (animal ethics, ethical consumerism, harm footprints, environmental footprints, kinda anti-vegan, kinda pro-vegan, helpful chart
"The Inefficacy Objection to Consequentialism and the Problem with the Expected Consequences Response" Mark Budolfson (animal ethics, inefficacy objection, rather anti-vegan, anti-utilitarian)
NOTE if links to Budolfson don't work, here's his website: http://www.budolfson.com/papers
"Strict Vegetarianism is Immoral" Donald Bruckner (animal ethics, anti vegan):
"The Moral Status of Animals" SEP entry
"Animal Consciousness" SEP entry
"Animal Cognition" SEP entry
"The Grounds of Moral Status" SEP entry
"The Moral Argument for Vegetarianism" James Rachels (Animal ethics, pro vegn, text is sideways sorry mercifully short, well written)
&q...