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Maybe now they'll have the budget to support Github style markdown / code formatting.
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Why should Slack support GitHub's implementation of markdown, why shouldn't they just use the common markdown standard?
Is that really a question? For convenience of course.

Also, https://githubengineering.com/a-formal-spec-for-github-markd...

It's only convenient for users of GitHub, there is surely a large number of users that use both, but there is also a common standard.
But you realize that there isn't a common standard, right? Markdown is a language which has no official spec.

CommonMark is as close as it gets to one and that one does include github-style code fencing, so I don't know what you're even on about.

It was CommonMark I was thinking of, it just seemed to make more sense (to me at least) to implement that reference, rather than one that seems specific to GitHub (nothing against GitHub flavoured markdown, I use it and I like it's simplicity)
They should support multiple markdown languages, including Github's.

The reason is that when using slack with github integration, it's annoying to need to switch markdown language as one goes back and forth between the two.

And Slack's lack of support for code formatting, bullet lists, etc. is IMO a sorely missed in that scenario.

Can somebody explain the expenses/need to raise money?

From what I can tell the major competitor to Slack is Basecamp - a profitable company with 50 or so employees?

What is Slack doing with all this money? The slack I used at work was an html version of irc - is there more?

Hipchat is the main competitor I'd say.

From what I've heard, Slack hit a pretty big infrastructure wall when it came to big organizations. Teams just didn't scale past 1000 people. So they've had to rebuild significant parts of the product in order to target large corporate customers.

Looking at some of their latest API updates, you can see glimpses of enterprise support. (eg moving away from handles to user ids likely enables active directory integration).

Back to the question: Why raise money? Because enterprise whales are a much more solid backbone than thousands of 20 person startups, and they still have some eng investments they need to make to handle someone like Walmart in an on premise installation with 10s of thousands of users.

"Why raise money? " I think the more likely answer is because they can.
Their CEO Stewart said of the last round "we should because it's cheap right now".
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>>What are you talking about?

He's talking about teams in the context of Slack not a different product.

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The parent is talking about the size of Slack teams, not the Microsoft product "Teams" which you seem to be talking about. (Why would Slack have to rebuild anything because of MS?!)
Atlassian is about to replace Hipchat with Stride.

But the real competition is Google or MSFT, since they have email and docs deployed to just about everyone and can try to capture that attention by offering something _just_ good enough for a lot less.

At Slack Frontiers last week (their first ever conference), they had a number of speakers from large orgs that use Slack, including Fox and Oracle. That size business is probably what they're working hardest to capture.

- Raising additional money can extend the runway before having to go public. Back in 2016 CEO Butterfield said minimum year and a half before considering going public https://www.geekwire.com/2016/slack-ceo-going-public-window-...

More recently (Mar '17) he expressed "I've said publicly before that we are trying to run the company so that we're ready to go public, not because we are going to necessarily." https://www.axios.com/slack-ceo-stewart-butterfield-23186588...

So if the VC money is there for the taking, why not?

- Additional capital will add to the war chest to fend of competitors such as Microsoft Teams, HipChat and Google Hangouts Chat. With the deep pockets of Microsoft and Google, more cash can aid in innovation, R&D, marketing, etc.

> So if the VC money is there for the taking, why not?

- dilution - possible obligation to pay dividends - although probably not here, giving a board seat / some control

I think the basic question here is, how can Slack productively spend $250MM over the next couple of years--do they have a vision that exists in some proportion to that kind of capital? Slack is a nice platform, yet it's hard to imagine _hundreds_ of good developers toiling away on mobile apps, desktop apps, webhook integrations, etc.

> So if the VC money is there for the taking, why not?

Disclaimer: I am not a startup founder. I am not an investor. I have zero knowledge about how these things work besides from what I've read here. That being said, I thought the meta for raising money was (is?) that you don't raise money if you don't need it or don't anticipate you will need it?

I mean if you're Dropbox, you have massive infrastructure spending even in your early years that means as you get people to learn to embrace "the cloud" in early 2009, success is you have tons of users who use your product for free with a small fraction converting to a paid account and a smaller fraction using it at work (fancier paid account) I can understand the need to raise money. However, I thought raising money means the founders lose control of the majority of shares. My understanding is if you don't need the money, don't raise it because it is a liability. I can't imagine slack's infrastructure spending being anything near dropbox's (or maybe I am wrong?)

Now that I think about it again, I am sure I have made a mistake somewhere in my assumptions. I'd love to be corrected. Thanks

Edit: How did Snapchat and Uber founders manage to retain control even after many rounds of funding? Is that applicable here? Can I use the same thing if I ever become a founder?

> that you don't raise money if you don't need it or don't anticipate you will need it?

Slack anticipates they might need the money in the future.

Or, you raise when you don't need it, so that you don't get shitty terms, which you'd the get when/if you actually do need it!
Cash is oxygen. It gives startups time and options. Startups are fragile, so those are great things to have on hand.

The question is whether money can be raised at acceptable terms. Uber had a lot of leverage because everyone wanted to invest in Uber.

According to LinkedIn data, Slack has >950 employees. Not 50.

They are going "big". Enterprise. Places Basecamp or hipchat never did or will.

Pro tip: startups often hire tons of people just to boost their valuations in the next round. So the number of employees is never the whole story.
Can you please just make the mobile app work correctly now?
I don't understand how people can continue to use it even though the notifications are extremely unreliable. Unacceptable for any chat-based app.
I haven't had any problems with missing notifications over the past year on the iOS client, and I'm signed-in to three different teams simultaneously.

My only complaint about the iOS app is its RAM consumption (it's not an Electron app on mobile too, I hope?) as iOS seems to suspend it and thaw it whenever I switch to another app. Oh, and it's still kinda slow, switching between teams takes 3-6 seconds.

Or a real desktop app? Electron is a fine start, but there's little reason anymore that they don't build a real app I don't need to close when on battery.
Crazy to me. Slack is a constant distraction - 20+ channels makes it seem like I'm in 20+ day-long, slow meetings.

Real-time chat rooms just to make productive teams, I've found.

Easy enough to make it not real-time: mark self as "away", disable notifications, let your team know the right way to contact you if they have a critical issue.
So why would you need slack then in the first place?
You don't, but have little choice when it's foisted on you.

If you're a knowledge/tech company, would you let me put a device in your worker's workspace that emitted an annoying noise randomly ever 5-15 minutes, interrupting them and causing them to spend time regaining their focus on that ask they were working on? Probably not, but orgs are handing money over hand over fist to Slack for the privilege of enabling this.

Knowledge Productivity Diagram Example: https://i.imgur.com/sAdZ63y.jpg

Because you can catch up during breathers / breaks from your main task.
Because it's the standard for communication at your company. I don't mind Slack, but I have co-workers who hate it, but don't really have a choice but to use it at least occasionally.
I actually really like slack for casual conversation, for non-blocking work comms, and for general info, I only dislike when folks expect urgent responses via slack. So I've adjusted my slack config to make it work wonderfully for the use case I prefer, and to work around the use case I don't.
Totally agree. I work for a 2000+ people company and we have over 2000 channels. Slack just doesn't work well for that size.
Maybe most companies don't need as much channels as there are users, though.
I have found that the more channels the better, because then you can subscribe only to channels that are useful.
Why would you be connected to 2000 channels? Just use the ones that are relevant to you.
OP hasn't necessarily joined 2000+ channels, their company has 2000+ channels, it's a similar situation in most companies I think…

I work for a 200+ person company and we have approximately 800 channels, maybe 20% of them are work related, the remaining channels are noise. There's a channel wherein some people in the company pick up on grammatical and spelling errors of others in the company and post them for others to laugh at, there's another channel for the three people in the company that think they know latin to make the same Monty Python joke (Romani ite domum) over and over.

For the current project we're working on, we've put in a no robots rule into the channel (no Git/Jira/Travis notifications) and when one of the higher-up managers in the company decided to join the project channel and make two joke-like comments which added no value to the project, we had the project manager remove him from the channel.

Slack has over-casualised our company, for work it sometimes works well, for distractions it almost always works too well.

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I'm obviously not in all those channels, more like 20-30. One issue is that channel discoverability is poor. Searching for the right channel is difficult or impossible, since search only looks at the actual name vs. also the description. So sometimes I just stay in channels so I don't forget about them or avoid spending extra effort trying to find them again. Also, grouping channels doesn't exist so you end up with a long list of channels, making it more difficult to navigate (only can split them between starred and non-starred but that's not sufficient). Another one is leaving `threads`, and cleaning up that all threads view is extremely cumbersome. There are many more issues but those are just some basic ones.

It's not all Slack's fault though, it's also partially the company's fault for trying to embrace Slack for everything.

sounds like your company is doing something wrong
You know, you could just mute them all except one. That's what I do - only #engineering and private messages are unmuted.
I wish there were more notification customization. For example, have the icon on your browser or taskbar be changed when you receive a message but not get a pop-up notification for some chatroom. And for other chatrooms, get pop-up notification. This will help me separate from immediate response level vs "respond sometime today" level
Similarly, I want the ability to make a channel not ping the browser tab (no * next to it) but still display the channel name in bold if there are messages. I find it hard to ever remember to check some channels, but don't necessarily need to check them immediately (or even very quickly).
If you mute the channel and then configure slack to only show starred rooms and rooms with new messages, you can achieve this effect. The room will stay hidden unless someone says something, at which point it shows up in the list, unbolded. This lets you know to check on it at your convenience without triggering any of the notifications.
Did I read that right - they currently have $200M ARR?

Keep in mind the $5B "valuation" probably is based on share price of the preferred share times total number of all shares. In other words, fiction.

25x sales - high but seems reasonable for high growth b2b saas with network effect. you were expecting more or less? not clear from your qtn
Managing to create a network effect for corporate chat rooms is impressive. But it is a bit depressing that centralized unencrypted chat for corporations is a billion dollar product.
The chat room isn't what's worth a billion dollars. The fact that they basically own the productivity chat market is.
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Despite all the detractors, Slack definitely made collaboration much easier b/w teams. IRC was just too techy for tech and non-tech teams to collaborate.

However, I don't think the future of collaboration will be Slack. It is just too expensive and quite buggy at the moment. I'm hoping there will be competition that will either make Slack better or replace Slack with a cheaper, less buggy alternative.

Hoping for the same. Stopped using Slack primarily because of their mobile (iOS) experience. Push notifications never seem to come on time and I hate that the notifications get pushed in reverse order when EVERY other app does the opposite.
I struggle to agree, despite being the person who initially championed it at the company. It feels like the worst of both IM and email: people use it instead of email, so delayed responses are ok (although sometimes you want a realtime convo and cannnot get it), but alike IM they also just don't respond sometimes (this reminds me of how people sometimes treat iMessage/SMS).

I was thinking about the impact of taking it away again, if Hangouts supported "channels" that people in the domain could join I think we would have a pretty seamless departure. The channels feature is about all I've remained to love after having slack for 2 years.

They should just bring back Google Wave.
Funny how slack suffers many of the same issues (performance wise) that killed wave but they benefit from a decade of hardware advancements.
Like being based on web stack?

Because otherwise I don't really see any inherent performance issues in the problem domain that would require hardware more powerful than what we had in the early 90s. IRC, for all it's UX issues, proves exactly that.

Discord manages much better performance on a similar(?) stack
but what performance issues do you have? Sure, slack might be resource hungry, but it doesn't feel "slow" to me.
Say that again after trying Discord :) It's night and day.

Especially voice/video chat, holy crap Slack is ridiculous. The first time I started a Slack voice chat, I actually had time to disable my extensions and log into my router before I figured that no, it's not a problem on my end, it's just that slow and the damn thing loaded.

Slack is just really bad in terms of performance.

Ony work laptop ( Core2/Duo, 8GB RAM ) Slack in a Firefox tab lags when typing. Incredible in 2017.
The app is ridiculously slow on my 4 year old laptop. Non-electron apps are always fast and snappy, but slack is almost unusable.
i7 3770, 32GB RAM, dual SSD and two HDD setup, Windows 10 x64, everything flies, absolutely everything updates before I finish half-blinking my eyes. I have 2-3 Twitch streams running 24/7 and still have 30-50ms in any game I enter.

Yet, Slack manages to have lag between pressing Enter and showing a message. It's baffling to me how almost nobody doesn't seem to have a problem with that. Miranda IM worked much faster when connected to 6 networks... on a machine that was 10x slower than my phone.

Like, come on.

Windows 10 is probably your issue there to be honest. I have issues with HipChat at work on Windows 10 on a Mac. But at home on Linux with worse hardware? No issues. It's literally Windows 10 & drivers.
I wonder what exactly would be an issue? Windows tends to have the best drivers for... pretty much everything.
I'm also windows 10, and find it impossible to blame. I've run discord on the same machine on a much more active group, and it's far more performant.
But that's just the thing -- Slack is the only laggy program on my machine and trust me, as a dev with 15 years of professional (and total of 25 with hobby) experience and an aspiring sysadmin, I have a lot.

Can't blame the entire OS for a single program being badly written.

- Startup time feels subpar - I haven't dug into it, but it feels like it's downloading the JS for the app on load every time. Switching between teams is similarly slow on first access.

- Scrolling up to something that happened fairly far back in history can feel really awkward and broken, image loads and ajax fetches can make the scrollbar behaviour really janky (to be fair, I just tried this and it was better than I remember, although still far from perfect)

- Switching rooms takes about a second, even if I was just in that room, which while not horrible, is still a little laggy for something that should be nearly instant if I have the room's content cached.

Overall while it's gotten better, the "native" Slack app still feels very much like a webpage with OS chrome around it (which is what it is, but other apps like VS Code, Atom, and Discord don't give this impression nearly as much)

This is all on the latest Macbook Pro upgraded as much as possible in every respect save the video card.

Slack takes 10 minutes to start up on my iPad 2.

Granted that it's an older model, but why does an IRC chat program need 10 minutes to run? What is it doing?

Can't use the electron app anymore b/c it'll consume all memory available on my development machine - I have 16gb worth. It's not consistent in memory consumption either, random times it'll get hungry. The connectivity thing (on debian based linux at least) is a major issue for me; it'll never resync after reconnecting to the internet. Only solution is to turn it off and on again.
It is very much slow. Compare typing a message in slack to typing a message in sublime, or even visual studio. There is a long noticeable delay when sending messages, when changing channels, opening threads, attachments, scrolling, searching.

I've a high end workstation on windows 10, and a gigabit jnternet connection. There's no excuse for the delays we see. Another major issue for me at least is their editing system. If you send a message, and edit it "too soon", the UI pretends to edit it, and some seconds later comes back and gives you a modal dialog saying it failed to apply the edit, and undoes your edit. The delay is _huge_ - 10-20 seconds.

The "issue" with Wave was the ridiculous beta invite system that prevented people who were really, really excited for the idea from trying it out until it was already basically dead.
That was definitely a big issue, but it also wasn't clear what to do with it.
> but alike IM they also just don't respond sometimes

Don’t people “just not respond” even more with email? Maybe I’m an outlier but I probably reply to less than 50% of things that come into my email.

And if you need a realtime convo, come tap me on the shoulder or schedule a time to talk. That’s the main benefit of slack (and email): async communication. Async is good.

For your work email?

If I had a 50% response rate for emails that clearly need a response, that would severely impact my ability to do my job and would likely result in my manager taking steps to help me improve that.

Oh I don’t even open my work email. That has a 100% ignore rate. If it’s not important enough to Slack or talk to me about it doesn’t exist.

I meant for my real email.

As for my manager taking steps to help me improve that, he’s even worse. Or just has a stronger things-that-are-important filter than I do for Slack. Email is for papertrailing things that were previously agreed upon in person or on slack.

If your work email is not worth reading, you have a communications problem at your company.

The problem is not 'Slack' or 'Email' - it's the wasted communications energy at all these companies.

Most companies have not figured this out, and think that tech will solve if for them. Not so much.

Often the "communications problem" is that people have low reading comprehension, and cannot type.
People miss emails, but it's not anywhere near as common as people missing a slack message...in my experience.
The thing is, Slack isn't really really good at async communication at all. If I @mentioned someone and asked them a question, if they haven't responded to it within an hour or two, the odds of them coming back and answering it are extremely slim. People do miss e-mails, but not to that degree.
I feel like threads + reply tracking could easily solve that. They already have the concept of unread items and threads, they could just add a channel / tab for DM's you haven't explicitly replied to (or acknowledged).

I feel like slack (and competitors) have a lot of room to grow still.

That sounds like you’re misusing chaty channels. This is what DMs are for. I’ve had good success with people coming back even days later to answer questions on DM.

Especially when timezones are involved

> but alike IM they also just don't respond sometimes (this reminds me of how people sometimes treat iMessage/SMS).

Given that they steadfastly refuse to implement an ignore user feature while at the same time they've implemented mandatory channels, of course the signal-to-noise ratio falls and people just ignore Slack. I know I do.

> Given that they steadfastly refuse to implement an ignore user feature

If you have to ignore your colleagues you have far worse problems than Slack not having an "ignore user" feature.

The problem is well identified. It's Slack.
Slack is also used for some casual communities as well. For instance if I were to use the Screeps/EVE Online slack like I do a work one, I'd never be off my phone.
> Slack is also used for some casual communities as well. For instance if I were to use the Screeps/EVE Online slack like I do a work one, I'd never be off my phone.

Slack's been pretty clear that they don't want their product to be used for this use case, and have even nudged some larger "casual" communities and open-source projects off. So it's not surprising that they plan their feature roadmap according to what (they think) will be useful to businesses.

> If you have to ignore your colleagues you have far worse problems than Slack not having an "ignore user" feature.

Try working at a large enough company. Or, try using any number of bots. I'm in a few mandatory channels of zero relevance (ok, mute) and a few of high relevance that are punctuated with lots of bot chatter I'd like to ignore. And, sure, there are a few coworkers I'd prefer to ignore.

Even IRC will let you manage notifications with more granularity than Slack will.

Totally agree with this.

I do consulting for a bunch of startups and they often invite me to their slack. I'm pretty fascinated by the hugely different "slack cultures" at each company.

One company I worked for would militantly tell people to never use @all, @channel, etc, because it was distracting (THANK YOU!!!!) and another client will literally do "@channel, I'm WFH today" in the all company channel. I've had 2-3 hour blocks where I'll have 6-7 notifications that aren't for me.

If you ask me, Slack is the best way to distract your employees from doing work. It's like putting everyone in ~1 hour of meetings a day for no good reason.

Atlassian has just launched Stride as a cheaper alternative. I'm planning to test it out soon to see if it hits the mark for your second requirement too.

[1] https://www.stride.com/pricing

I view this like much of the rest of communications software (or even software in general). Over time, it tends to go to zero. It can be useful to compare it to video services or even personal messaging. In personal messaging, you have an insane amount of services like Facebook Messenger, Snapchat, GroupMe, Allo, Hangouts, iMessage, Signal, etc...

I could see something similar to Slack as a free, open source project. It could possibly develop out of something like Signal [https://signal.org/]. Making and supporting an open source solution can be a viable business too (e.g. CoreOS, Docker). I doubt that it would kill Slack either. It should be interesting to watch, and will benefit the end users as a whole through an improved Slack and/or a similar free option.

Mattermost[1] is an existing open-source[2] Slack alternative.

[1] https://about.mattermost.com/

[2] https://github.com/mattermost

I have a few dozen mattermost deployments I maintain. It's great.
Except they don't have an app you can install on your phone/desktop/laptop, last I checked. If I could also join a 'Mattermost' team from the Slack app so everything is centralized, I'd be happy as fuck.
One thing about Slack is that communication and chat is literally their core business. With offerings from Atlassian or Microsoft et al, they could just let their platform wither when they have a mood swing. But it is all Slack has.
That's true. But I also look at Evernote and realize that notes are all Evernote have, and yet look at their stagnation ...
Still isn't end-to-end encrypted, I think.
I don’t think there’s any need to be. Their target market is either business who need it on-premises for regulatory reasons, or its business who don’t. The former being hacked is the fault of the business, but that’s what they pay for with on-prem deployment, the latter isn’t critical (because it’s not regulated), the business has not committed a crime mishandling data or anything, and will seek compensation for damages from Slack.

Slack being hacked is generally just not something most business need in their threat model. Same goes for Gmail, GitHub, and most other business services.

That's hard for me to believe.

I can imagine people lackadaisically sharing things like ssh keys / passwords on it. I certainly have.

Any time something is hacked where the participants thought they had privacy is a potential disaster. Not sure how you can say otherwise.

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> IRC was just too techy for tech and non-tech teams to collaborate.

There are PLENTY of other chat protocols other than IRC. Not sure why people always make the comparison. IRC would be a poor choice for a workplace.

XMPP is a pretty good alternative with stuff like movim that have a friendly modern looking client.

It seems like companies exist nowadays to raise funding. Not to be profitable businesses. Say they go IPO soon after, where does the money come to actually run the company? Is there a designated pool of shares for that? Do they buy back the shares then?
Out of all the software this validly applies to, Slack has the most solid business model I've seen in software since Microsoft Office. Almost every modern organization is inclined to stress over whether $6.66 / user / month is worth the price of the substantially enhanced collaboration Slack provides for anywhere between small teams and 1000+ - person companies.

Not a Slack employee or anything, just love the software.

The real question is: why buy Slack when relatively equivalent solutions such as Mattermost or even Discord exist?

Seriously, the only thing that could convince a company is either lower admin cost (vs Mattermost) and way better customer service when something fails. (vs Discord) Pretty sure big co mc corp wouldn't like a potential competitor running its comms.

Additionally a strong competitor is as always email. Perhaps enhanced with scheduling and mailing lists. If you don't like to set it up, you could pay Google for example. And both Google and MS are improving their chat/IM offerings.

They can and will undercut such a start-up instead of buying it, unless they see enough value in an acquihire.

Because with Mattermost or Discord you have to maintain it yourself, and their tooling isn't very good?
The major difference, to me, between Slack and Office is that Slack lacks user lock-in.

Companies that make heavy use of office would find it very difficult to move over to another office suite (if they could find one that meets their needs), whereas moving off slack to one of the many alternatives, doesn't seem that hard.

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If they made it to IPO, then they are golden; the bigger idiot is left holding the bag. With Snapchat, Blue Apron, Twitter, GoPro, Fitbit, etc. the "failed IPO" is their true business model.
> the "failed IPO" is their true business model.

Might be an overstatement. I would say let's see until they innovate on something that people like and would pay for. Until then, I wouldn't call them a failure until they actually run out of business

I was going for hyperbole and I do agree. I just think the speculation is getting out of control, not necessarily with Slack in particular, but with tech in general. I'm really curious to see what happens with Airbnb and Uber's IPO roadmaps. If either flops I think the market could see an unpleasant correction.
All this and I still can't use Screenhero on Ubuntu? Way to destroy a useful platform for the open source community, Slack.
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Thought experiment: how much money and how long would it take you to build a product with complete feature parity to Slack?
I personally can do UI of Slack client in 5-8 months (so 5-8 man/months) + one/two backend developers needed. And it will be almost native client with client distribution less than 5mb.

As a proof, it took me 2 months to make this application: https://notes.sciter.com/ (and site for it in that time too).

That's the easy part. The hard part is scaling, marketing, and building a business/platform around the product so that you take it worldwide.

Several people have built Slack clones and there's even multiple open source projects out there. Building a company and business at a scale like Slack is the incredibly difficult part and nobody has managed to replicate that.

That's true. My personal educated estimation is that only 5-10% of income is spent on R&D in established companies.
I'd pay for an alternative "lite" Slack client for basic channels, DMs, and attachments. With 10+ accounts, my 2017 mac struggles under the weight of the Electron mac client
A competitive app would have:

- easy signup for public access

- integrations for killer apps in other verticals

- plugin architecture

- public and private apis

- mobile app(s) with 80% of core desktop functionality

- end-to-end encryption

Maybe it's sufficient to extend IRC. Add support for custom emojis & Giphy integration.

Voice, video conferencing and screenshare would be essential.

I've participated in design of application similar to that (it is already on the market): voice, video, camera desktop sharing and textual chat. First version was made in 9..11 months: core UI team - 3 developers for desktop. 2 developers for mobile clients, one for each platform. Server side 3-5 as it supports video transmission for 1000 and more participants. Platforms: Windows, Mac OS, Linux, Android and iOS. Small, manageable and so effective professional team.
Uber was on Hipchat, briefly experimented with Slack, went back to Hipchat, and then moved to our own Inhouse chat based on open source project, starting around the beginning the year.

It was bad the first few months, but except for a recently publicized utterly embarrassing security vulnerability, in the last 2 months it's been working great. The mobile app is now much, much better than the HipChat ever was.

What project is the internal tool based on? Mattermost?
Yes, the internal tool is called uChat and it's based on Mattermost but Uber heavily contributed to Mattermost to make it scale. More details here: https://eng.uber.com/uchat/
For $200M ARR, in a non-fictional world I may have it as low as 600M valuation and as high $1.2b depending on growth.

But in this world, it's valued @ 5B. The tech world (bubble) is amazing.

Businesses are now being appraised like houses: "Comparable businesses were just bought for X dollars".

At the end of the day the valuations don't rely on businesses bottom line. They are based on two factors:

- How much Google, Apple, etc. MIGHT buy them for in the future.

- How much investors THINK Google, Apple, etc. would buy them today for.

Speculative markets have never failed us. /s

How can you put a limit on their market cap without understanding their growth rate?
3x revenue for a SaaS business that is probably growing at 100% yoy makes no sense. I have no idea why people continue to cite this. Even public SaaS companies aren't getting valuations so low.
I agree. 8-12x ARR seems to be the standard multiplier for valuation of a SaaS startup. This is also growing ~100% YoY at this scale. That being said, 25x seems very bullish. Even 20x kind of jumps off the page to me. Keep in mind, it's also the SaaS darling in the valley right now, so it's gonna get a bump.
The service is very cheap and easy to replace, so such valuation makes sense actually. Do you really expect Slack to bring in 10x more business than it has now?
That's not what a 10X multiple implies
The 'existential' issue with Slack, is not their growth rate or multiples ...

It's the fact that they don't necessarily have 'vendor lock in' - and substitution is easy. And it's an easy thing to copy.

It's designed for small teams, and small teams can switch to the 'next, cool thing' in a heartbeat.

At the end of the day it's just chat. That's it. There's nary anything special about it. They did a good job of it.

That said, brands to have sticking power, and if there is no reason to change then why?

They have some new MS execs, who might teach them the ways of 'sinking their claws in' :) and becoming incumbent.

I should add, the larger the company (even with small teams), the bigger the switching costs. After about 500 people, IT kind of becomes 'detached' from the people, and doing anything on one's own becomes harder, so tech becomes entrenched.

This company is the next 'IPO pony' the VC's are building up, hoping to push onto markets at high valuation to get a big bang.

To add: it's 'Softbank'. They have so much money to invest ... they are looser with their cash I believe.
But they do have vendor lockin... in that the switching costs are high. E.g. CRM, Access Control, Database, etc. Once big enterprise customers integrate you into their workflow, it takes a long time to get unseated.
I think most deployments aren't tightly integrated into CRM etc.. But I don't have the figures to back it up.
I totally agree with you, but I'm pretty impressed they got to 200m ARR at all. I guess marketing is a pretty powerful force when you have so much more money than your competitors.

I wonder if they can use this money to build an actual product edge, maybe with search.

If you think there's no lock-in I don't know if you understand what's going on here fully. Slack has lock-in from day one: as soon as people use it, it's hard to move away. We're an organization of 50 people and ripping out Slack, changing user habits and even getting all of our data out of there would be a _massive_ pain – so we'll never do it. This absolutely discounts how high the cost to your employees of continually switching tools is.
That people use it and may like it, is not really 'lock in'.

Ultimately, it's an easy-to-reproduce experience, and there will be/are competitors offering 'the same thing' - and so there will be price competition.

If you want to 'switch to an alternative' it would be a disruption, not a 'massive pain'. Your 'old chats' are not that valuable.

If Slack was integrated into other systems - or integrated with partners, customers etc. - that is 'lock in'.

FYI - It may very well be the 'next cool things' comes along, and you find small teams 'just using that cool thing' already.

Finally I would say that Slack is not even that optimal - there is a lot of 'noise' in those channels, and the value add I believe is not that high.

I consult for startups sometimes, they put me on Slack and it's total noise. I ask to just use email, and it works.

I think 'best practice' is not in a tool, it's in behaviour.

Email, used properly, with the help of a simple chat app for teams, can work just fine.

> If you want to 'switch to an alternative' it would be a disruption, not a 'massive pain'. Your 'old chats' are not that valuable

This is the definition of lock-in. Switching would be a disruption so you don't do it. I'm locked into Gmail. There are lots of competing products, but everyone knows my Gmail address and all my old emails are on it. I don't bother exploring switching because I know it will be a disruption.

I disagree your definition of what 'lock in' is.

All new technologies and process imply some degree of disruption.

'Lock in' is existential disruption.

+ You wrote your entire app in .NET - that's lock in. Changing it means gambling the whole company.

+ You went Oracle/SQL because of regulatory requirements - your app is wrapped around SQL, you have SQL/Oracle exports on board, you're not going to change that.

+ SAP - your whole company is wrapped around it, it's integrated with a dozen other systems.

+ You went Cisco - it really only interfaces with other Cisco gear. Lock in.

Slack is a 'chat app'. It's not that big a deal to switch.

If Slack evaporated tomorrow - one could switch to an alternative instantly. Teams would figure out a new protocol for communicating instantly. It's just chat.

There's a massive amount of potential lock in on the integrations side. How your pagers fire, how code deploys rollout, etc
> Slack is a 'chat app'. It's not that big a deal to switch.

You're over-constraining lock-in to its technical factors. Facebook has lock-in for totally non-technical reasons. These are equally, if not sometimes more, powerful than technical lock-in.

Lock-in means high switching costs. If it's more disruptive to switch than you could hope to gain from switching, you won't bother even contemplating switching and are, again by definition, locked in.

Your old chats might not be valuable for you, but in many companies, it has become de-facto documentation. People get questions answered, and it never makes it to the wiki.
As far as I know you can exgest your data & close the team -- what's the issue with ripping it out again? :)
Wow I'm quite surprised at all the negativity towards slack on here... My team hasn't experienced most of these issues and we love using it.
So your mobile notifications work without fail? On Android I receive one out of 20 notifications. The desktop app is horribly laggy -- and my computer can handle a lot. I have 2x 75Mbps internet links that stream 1080p effortlessly so it's not my net either.

And you're pleased with the lack of granularity of the notification settings, too?

>The desktop app is horribly laggy

Just try this out on linux (maybe works on other OSs): open a system manager with a real time CPU usage chart. Open the Slack desktop app (or a session in Chrome, it's the same). Open a channel (#random should work). Scroll up. Watch usage of all your CPU cores skyrocket. Stop scrolling. CPU usage goes back down.

They to hog all of my cores just to scroll up a list of messages.

BTW, this doesn't happen in Firefox: scrolling up doesn't cause CPU usage to go up measurably

Android app is a total disaster. Unreads? No you can't see them!
Something interesting

On their last raise @ $3.7b it was thought they were doing around $64m/year - so a 57x of revenue!

On this round they're raising @ $5b with $200m/yr - a ~25x of revenue valuation.

(1) http://www.businessinsider.com/thrive-leads-slacks-round-of-...

... which makes complete sense. The multiplier eventually falls to the P/E of a stock standard public company, which is what, 12? Lets just say 12. The investors need to give a solid X if they expect the value to grow, as the founders want to keep a high %. So 57X -> 25X is about the right track.
Slack lacks a truly broad network effect. Already loads of competitors with equivalent or better products - lots of people seem to be using telegram now. Whatsapp rooms are just as good too. They are really going to struggle to aggressively price such a commodity product.
With Microsoft’s Teams catching up, i think Slack need more than just funding and valuation. I have been using it for while and doesn't see much of the development happening. Only thing they have introduced is "Threads", and nothing else which is noticeable. I would love to see few of these in Slack:

- Video calling - Storage - Private Sharing - Guest member - Meeting rooms

What features does a "meeting room" have, in your mind? I'm curious what you're looking for.
After using MS Teams for a couple months.. I think they have a long ways to go to.
I like Slack as a product.

I hate how a lot of open source projects have adopted it as the de-facto community discussion forum, mainly because it's a product designed for companies/organisations - not a disparate band of interested contributors.

In my password manager I have 8 passwords for different Slack "teams" that I've joined, because you can't just have one account.

Being on some mailing lists, the most annoying spam is from people requesting an invite to the community Slack channel. Every day you'll get at least one or two people wanting an invite.

It's silly, but I don't see what the alternative is - Slack has built a product that people like, it's just it doesn't gel well outside a corporate environment in my opinion

Discord is actually fantastic for open source communities. React uses it. We use it at my company. It doesn't have the "8 different team accounts" issue you mention and there's this fantastic cross-protocol bridge called Matterbridge you can use to do n-way mirrors:

https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge/

There is always a 'pragmatic' silence about PHP on slack discussions here. Wikipedia, Facebook, Slack. PHP has unquestionably delivered on scale.
Yeah, pressing Enter and waiting 0.5 to 1.5 secs for the message to appear is indeed an unquestionable progress!

(I have a machine that can run 5 virtual Linuxes and 2 copies of a full HD game on 60fps, simultaneously, and can stream 1080p from my net, so no, it's definitely not my setup.)

Have you used Miranda 10-13 years ago?

What are you talking about? Posting a message in Slack? It's instant for me.
Nobody mentioned matrix/riot.im as potential open source alternative?
I quite like the concept but it was pretty slow the last time I tried it. I'm going to keep checking in on it though.
Glad you mentioned it! I use it for most of my chat nowadays. You can use it with bridges to irc, gitter, slack and more. No problem for me. They plan to improve the native experience with more native code (Qt or GTK).
I'll definitely be on the lookout for a better, more native desktop client as I personally find the UI of Riot to be painful. Maybe I'm alone but I find the amount of screen real estate the Riot requires to be obscene.
Surprised no one here has mentioned Twist. https://twistapp.com/ We're currently evaluating it in lieu of Slack on our team of ~10 people because of the vast array of issues Slack has. I don't know if it's something that could be considered for larger organizations, but the way it puts together channels and threads is very intuitive, and cuts out a lot of noise for individuals.

In terms of Slack's misgivings, I don't think I've used a more incredibly bloated, buggy, slow electron app. Multiple team logins with no centralized account is _insane_ to mange across teams, this single point frustrates me and most people I talk to a lot. Not to mention the more teams you have, the more your electron app slows to an absolute crawl. The notifications leave a lot to be desired in terms of granularity per channel. They've done a really terrible job on "threads", the UI around it is messy and confusing, and the concept doesn't inline well. Those are just the most apparent daily gripes.

Slack is basically the "open office" of communications. It has become almost mandatory even though most people seem to hate it (at least some of the time).
I wish Slack had some features that Discord has...

* Text channel 'voice' restricted by user level. Eg: a read-only channel

* Dark mode

* Option to mute someone in voice channel

* Push-to-talk

I came here just to mention this app. I had done a small trial with a few colleagues for an alumni advisory group we run for our alma mater, and the consensus was that:

1) It absolutely solves some of the problems we had with slack, with a thoughtful approach to how people work and respond to the new "streaming inbox." (vs. the "batch inbox" a la David Allen's GTD paradigm.)

2) However, it just felt like a snappier version of email. Which isn't bad, but let's call it like it is. If it looks like a pig, acts like a pig, etc. etc. Which I don't mind! I actually love systems/ tools that work with email - it's pretty much the one universal app that works for everyone with no training!

Nevertheless, the overall experience with Twist was good and would recommend as a solid Slack alternative.

oh look at that, 5% of the float is dictating the entire valuation. Might be a new low for Silicon Valley, by low I mean percent of cash raised to made-up-on-the-spot valuation.

If they want to go public and keep that valuation with that constricted of a supply, S&P/Nasdaqs/NYSE won't list you, but Hong Kong will love you, alongside the other 1% float unicorns.

>> S&P/Nasdaqs/NYSE won't list you Whats the cut off?. Is there a link you can suggest to read more about % of cash raised/valuation?
They all have minimum listing criteria that you can find, a private industry solution to curb what they considered abuses.
I'm sorry to be the hater, but I find Slack is a horrible productivity sink for me.

I am currently a member on seven Slacks. Each one has a different username and password combination. I have to log in to each one separately. AFAICT there is no way to link them so I can log into all of them all at once. And then once I'm in, every Slack has multiple channels. Trying to keep up with all of them is hopeless. But if I'm not paying attention to a conversation in real time, going back after the fact and trying to extract meaningful content is difficult (it's hard just to find where a particular conversation starts and ends). Trying to go back and make a contribution to the conversation after the fact is completely hopeless.

Yes, real-time chat can be very handy, but I don't see anything that Slack does that Adium or Skype doesn't do better IMHO. And for archival discussions I'd much rather have a Google group. Keeping a threaded structure makes it so much easier to go back and trace the conversation after the fact.

Slack's entire UX is gamified to take your attention by any means necessary (bright colors, flashing lights, "join this channel!" notifications). It's a massive productivity sink, and it's designed to be that way.
>>> I am currently a member on seven Slacks

There's your problem.

I'm pretty surprised that you think Adium and Skype are better products than Slack - neither are the same and they are pretty clearly much worse at team communication, if you can call it that.

> There's your problem.

That's certainly one of my problems. But I work on multiple projects and every one of them has its own Slack. So what exactly am I supposed to do about that?

I also don't think the situation would be much better if I were only on one Slack. One Slack with multiple channels is more or less equivalent to multiple Slacks (except for the multiple login annoyance).

You can connect to multiple teams within the Slack client at once; it shows an icon for each vertically on the left side of the client if running the desktop client and lists them within a dropdown for the web client. Also, in the desktop client you can press cmd-1, cmd-2, cmd-3, etc. to switch among them.

Screenshot found on Google image search: https://toky.co/img/integrations/desktop-app-slack.png

Oh, I know that. The problem is if I lose my connection then I have to log back in to each one separately.
I'd say "There's Slack's problem". Having different emails and password to each and every Slack account you have is tedious to work with. Would be cool to have a single account to manage all workspaces. Kind of like you can join multiple repos as a collaborator on Github with your personal account.
> I have to log in to each one separately. AFAICT there is no way to link them so I can log into all of them all at once

I like Slack as a company and a product, but I cannot understand why they do this like they do. Even worse, if you forget our password to one team, you have to remember, the subdomain of the team you're on in order to even get the password back. So annoying.

I don't think this is the case. I requested a magic link for a team and entered an email address but it turned out to be the wrong email address for that team. Slack gave me this message in my email:

You requested a magic link for logging in to [foo].slack.com. Unfortunately, this email address isn't currently associated with that team.

We also searched for Slack teams you've already joined or are allowed to join, using [email address i entered]. It looks like you have several!

And then it lists a bunch of teams associated with that email address and includes Join buttons.

> I am currently a member on seven Slacks. Each one has a different username and password combination. I have to log in to each one separately. AFAICT there is no way to link them so I can log into all of them all at once.

I use Franz (http://meetfranz.com/) for this.

This is awesome & good news in every way. A lot of the comments here seem to really circle around how people treat instant message communication vs e-mail and/or being inundated with being a part of multiple Slacks.

If you are blocking co-workers like one person mentioned or muting them, you have other issues (yes, you can mute a user)

If you're demanding or need instant communication with someone, just call them from Slack. Or, alternatively, make sure you '@' them properly & force a send notification. The issue I see is that not everyone is all about real time comms -- some people put Slack on their phone or on multiple machines. Some don't.

Some people claim it's buggy -- I've had far more issues with HipChat just when it comes to displaying on two monitors than I have ever had with Slack.

I saw a few people complain about productivity sinks but the reality is if you want to be a part of a certain group to keep up top of what's being discussed, that's the pulse & one way to do it if you have a large amount of brain power in the room.

Meh. I'm excited.

I've stopped trying to understand why such a buggy product with horrible UX is praised as the opposite. To me it seems the takeaway is advertising/hivemind is still much more powerful and good product.
A couple of years ago I was praising them as the most perfect product I had ever used. Every single UX element was on point. Two years later, it is one of the most buggy, frustrating pieces of software I have ever used. Clearly somewhere along the way their priorities shifted.
Imagine that. They had a lot less staff and funding two years ago.
Congrats. Please allocate $1 million to build a native (i.e., non-electron) client application.