I got the Asus UX305CA with Ubuntu LTS a couple of years ago and I love it. But without any more information I cannot recommend it, as it is perfect for me but it might not be for others.
Pros:
- Light and thin, perfect for carrying everyday.
- Decent battery life.
- 1080p IPS 13.3" screen, nice keyboard+touchpad.
- No fans, no noise.
Cons (or not, highly dependends on your use case):
Seconded. I have the Asus UX305C, with Debian Stable, and I love it. It's the one with the 3200x1800 display. Yes, the CPU is a little underpowered, but you trade that off against the fan noise. It also has 8GB RAM, so it's not really lacking in that department.
Basically, if you want a powerhouse laptop, this isn't it. But it does absolutely everything else wonderfully.
I got an Asus UX305FA 2 years ago. It was great until some of the keys on the keyboard started to fail just outside of it's 1 year warranty. Despite having tried to reset the ribbon connector on the mobo I can't get it to work. The procedure for replacement isn't fun either.
Will probably get an Thinkpad X240/X250 off work next. They can often be purchased second-hand on ebay with a few years of on-site warranty left. Upgradeable, excellent keyboards, Linux friendly, and built like tanks.
A word of warning: The 'clickpad' on the X240 is the most unpleasant piece of computing hardware I have ever had the displeasure to use.
The clickpad has a ton of travel, and all of that travel is mushy. It sometimes doesn't even register clicks, and right-clicking is an exercise in frustration.
It was so bad I thought there was something defective about the version I had, so I had it replaced, and it was the same horrible experience.
Yes, lenovo brought back old trackpad after feedback from users. In x240 trackpad buttons are part of trackpad and that was the issue.X250 onward buttons are separate from trackpad similar to models before x240.
When I were looking for a new laptop, I got a new ASUS TP301UA first. But was very unhappy with the keyboard. It was bending in the middle when typing, and had overall uncomfortable floppy feeling. The camera was a joke too. The general impression was that on paper the specs looked great, but it was underwhelming in practice.
I returned it and got a used (like new) Thinkpad X250 for under $450 and cannot be happier. Computer feels rock solid, great components. Installed Linux, all works smooth, my best laptop so far. (It's a small-screen portable laptop, try to check it out, and if you like bigger screens, you may consider other series of Thinkpad, maybe).
(Also, for me, getting used to the mouse buttons positioned above the touchpad took about one week or so.)
I love the form factor and overall feel. I really like the keyboard, though I don’t care for the trackpad.
My real issue with this laptop is the screen. It’s hard on my eyes to the point that I don’t use it. I’ve had the laptop for around a year now and have had at least 5 different Linux distros on it, I’ve calibrated the display, and nothing has helped.
It's hard to answer, unless you define the budget, but I'd say refurbished ThinkPad T420 (Last model to has decent keyboard).
Put some RAM & SSD inside and you have nicely built and powerful machine.
Agreed, it is hard to answer, as it would depend mainly on your development env. and day to day workflow. In my opinion any 'T', 'W' or 'P' series Thinkpad that has >= 8GB DDR3 RAM, an SSD and a processor >= Intel i5 3rd Gen would make a decent programming machine. If you get your hands on the older Thinkpads, they have better keyboards.
Just bought a refurbished t460 through Lenovo's outlet website for $400, it is the best laptop purchase I've made. There were several 40% off sales on their website recently. I highly recommend buying from them. It came in two days and I cannot tell if it was used before or not, in great condition.
Those who have experience buying used laptops - where do you buy from (other than Apple stores)? If not from standard stores, are there any standard tests you do to make sure of the specs etc?
I bought my current laptop from Overstock.com. It worked out because they sent me a better model than what was listed. It is a Haswell quad-core i7 with AMD Bonaire, a 17.3" screen and a 750 GB hard drive (not SSD). I paid about $400 for it and just spent $65 more to put in more memory and will have 24GB of memory in it.
Used Thinkpad (T series or X series are probably the best bet) where you can upgrade the RAM and put in a new SSD. The whole thing should only cost you $400-500 at most depending on what SSD drive you buy.
Budget needs quantifying and location ... or rather, access to / cost of decent network. And the constraints of your chosen stack.
Depending on how you're actually developing, it may be reasonable and workable to have a fairly basic laptop - large screen, pleasant-enough keyboard, minimal CPU, memory, and battery - and throw your money at a decent headless server sitting somewhere.
I was considering $100 pinebook (https://www.pine64.org/?page_id=3707) but I haven't made my decision yet because what If I found out later that it cannot do certain things (e.g. certain software only works on x86 or something similar) then I would have to pay for real laptop e.g $200 while paying for both ($100+$200).
Are you a web developer? Server-side that needs to work on highload, or just client-side JS? Are you developing games and need to test your builds on a good enough GPU? Or may be you're working with ML? Do you need x86, or would you be comfortable with arm?
Do you work in your office, or travel to customers a lot? Do you develop iOS or MacOS apps, do you need to run Windows (or just prefer Visual Studio), or are you comfortable with one of Linux distributions? Or, may be, you could live on Android?
This comment should be at the top of the page. There have been lots of recommendations, but we don't even know if OP needs a Mac or a Windows machine or what. Thanks for asking about all those details; the answers to those are key to making an informed suggestion.
Personally, I do Android programming and the optimal machine to run Android Studio is not the optimal machine to develop on web. Like for Android Studio or even Java, you'd want a fast drive over high RAM and a lot of the bottlenecks are in CPU speed. But if you're doing web dev, you probably want bash and don't need a lot of HDD speed. So the cost effectiveness might be highest with a MacBook Air.
If your backend dev, maybe the laptops I use (IBM x220s) would work for you? I find they fly with Linux/an SSD. They're also pretty cheap (50 to 100USD). So I buy a few at a time so I can leave one at the office etc.
No heavy IDEs here, but I am known as a prolific tabs opener. The internal fans will spin up and the machine gets too hot to hold comfortably on your lap. No issues with responsiveness or speed, though.
I have a 2012 13" MacBookAir that I have used for tens of thousands of hours. With 8GB of RAM it handles most things, even 1080p footage in Final Cut Pro.
I did just put a new battery in it. Other than that it has been flawless, and I bet they are cheap now.
I agree!
I have it for ca. 4.5 years now with i7 processor and 512M SSD and it still delivers. I carried out CAD related developments on Windows in a VM and it was pretty satisfactory (except big or computation intensive cases but average desktop was in pair that time). I had to move on to more powerful desktops yet I still use it for this and that. Its size is still the perfect ballance to me in usability and portability and feel no urge to replace it yet.
I have one of these (two years newer) as well, but two things are pushing me towards an upgrade: the lack of support for multiple external monitors, and the lack of 4k support.
The somewhat anemic processor can be a concern as well. It in indeed capable of editing movies, but any major conversion jobs can take a lunch break to complete.
The most recent Lenovo T4x0 or T4x0s (a thinner version) that you can afford. Add more memory and a larger ssd disk as needed.
There is nothing wrong with used 3-4 years old machines. Processor power hasn't increased much. Just check the screen resolution, and factor in the extra cost if you need to add memory and swap the ssd disk.
The 440 series from 3 years ago didn't have physically separate mouse buttons on the touchpad (you just press down or tap at the corner areas of the touchpad), which some people found annoying.
I'm surprised that so many on HN recommend Lenovo laptops considering the robust privacy / security concerns shared amongst us.
For years, the Chinese government has owned a substantial portion of Lenovo (28% as of 2006[1]). It's no secret that the Chinese government attempts to hack US firms[2].
Although I have no direct evidence that the Chinese government has installed backdoors/monitoring/etc. into Lenovo laptop hardware, I think there is much circumstantial evidence to warrant serious concerns. So much so that the U.S. government is restricting access to Lenovo computers[3].
I'm at a place with Lenovo laptops that I was with Kaspersky anti-virus[4]. Although it might arguably be easier to install nefarious stuff into software, why take chances with your hardware?
I would say a second hand T420(s) T430(s) or equivalent. There are plenty of them due to companies renewing their stock every once in a while. I got mine (T430) for 300€ whereas it sold new for 1200+€.
I had a T420s before. It sadly died falling from a window. They are quite sturdy laptops of professional grade.
MacBook Air - The keyboard is nice, and the trackpad is small enough that accidental taps are a rarity. Screen is poor though. If you can get a macbook pro 2015, that would be better. But the Air makes a decent budget laptop.
If you're into game dev, you'll need a Windows laptop. Macs are fine for web/app dev.
+1 on the MacBook Air. I've got a 2014 model and use it daily for Swift iOS dev. Fantastic size machine. Battery is great. Keyboard to die for. And it has USB ports not USB C.
I was having trouble deciding on a laptop until just yesterday actually, when I finally settled on getting Dell's new Inspiron 7000 Gaming.
For reference, here are the specs for the one I ordered:
- i7-7700HQ
- GTX 1060 (Max-Q version with slightly lower perf)
- 16GB 2400MHz DDR4 (expandable up to 32GB)
- 4K display ($150 upgrade from base)
- 128GB SSD + 1TB HDD
- Intel 8265 802.11ac WiFi (as opposed to the Killer crap that Dell uses on their XPS line)
- Thunderbolt 3 (with x4 PCIE lanes as opposed to x2 on their XPS lines)
For a fairly reasonable price of ~$1275 after tax, plus around $170 in the form of cashback from Dell's reward program (I plan on getting a monitor from them), with financing and 12 month deferred interest that's waived if paid in full by then. I believe the deal is still available for those who might be interested: https://slickdeals.net/f/10568756-new-inspiron-7000-gaming-1...
To be perfectly honest, the flashy gamer design and bulkiness were major turnoffs for me, especially compared to their much more compact and professional looking XPS line, but the much better specs/$ in the Inspiron and several crippling deficiencies in the XPS 15 (namely the Killer Wireless card and x2 lane Thunderbolt 3) made this win out in the end.
I'd have loved to get a more portable convertible tablet like the Surface Pro or Surface Book with comparable specs, but even if we don't consider the difference in dedicated graphics power, their lack of x4 lane Thunderbolt 3 removes the possibility of using desktop graphics, which was a deal breaker for me. Similar models from other manufacturers felt really lackluster compared to the Surface line, each for various different reasons.
So I ended up deciding to just get the most performant and cost-effective laptop I could find to last me a few more years until hopefully the convertibles market matures enough to remove all the compromises I've found unacceptable so far.
This is definitely a point of concern for me as well, but after doing _a lot_ of searching on Reddit, I couldn't really find any systematic patterns of failures popping up, and many of the reviews I've read actually commended the build quality as one of the best among gaming laptops (low bar, I know). And this is a fairly popular laptop that Dell has been refreshing in a similar chassis for quite a few years now, so I'm hoping most of the obvious kinks have been ironed out throughout the generations, and that it won't just spontaneously fall apart on me.
Cheap Dell, add 1TB ssd, max the ram and install Ubuntu. Toshibas are never compatible, used lenovos have nasty shiny keys where the previous owner wore off the plastic. MBP costs a fortune.
I was looking for a really well built budget notebook, with good keyboard, good screen and good battery life, low noise emission, while willing to sacrifice performance. The Swift 3 fits the bill beautifully.
I got an i3, 4GB ram, 128GB ssd with 14 inch screen (basically the SF314-51-30W6). There are different configurations available, if you are looking for more cpu, gpu, ram, screen estate. I am not sure how they affect any of the points above though
If you are doing something that doesn't require a fast machine (I.e. server side web development), then a late 90's/early 2000's laptop will do. I currently cart around a '95 Toshiba satellite pro 440cdt to use in low security areas, with the HDD swapped for a 2gb CF card. Linux, vim, nginx, several backend stacks. I wouldn't care if it broke or was stolen (like anyone would) - I can get another for £20.
If you need a machine for client side dev, then something from '05-'10 would probably cut the mustard.
Ditto. Without the HDD or optical drive it's fairly light, and the battery lasts hours. Use a USB wifi dongle as needed. The keyboard and pointer nubbin work great.
To be clear I also have an MBP, but I usually use the junker. The MBP gets used for potatoshop and client side testing.
I also drive a '95 golf. Cost next to nothing to buy, parts laughably cheap. £500 for a convertible that goes like stink? Yes please. I could buy any car I wanted - but I prefer something cheap that I don't care too much about, that I can readily service myself.
Also, it's far more environmentally friendly to use old stuff 'til it dies than to buy new stuff.
I have a '96 Jeep with an inline 6. Also I didn't mention it, but at my (non-tech) business, I still have a Toshiba Satellite running. I bought it used for $50 like 7 years ago and we keep our books on it.
No laptop/borrowed only: $5-10 USB drive + per hour rate - just go to any internet cafe and pay the usage rate or one of many US public libraries that provide free computers.
Depending on how far your budget will stretch, a refurbished ThinkPad from the last three or four years is an excellent option under $400. If you were after something a bit more powerful with some extra features, a 13" or 15" retina MacBook Pro from 2013-14 can be had for under $1000, I'm currently using a 2013 retina 15" with a 512GB SSD that I got for $1100. I got mine as a display unit from a major electronics retailer and then spent another $120 replacing the batteries through Apple.
84 comments
[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 151 ms ] threadPros:
- Light and thin, perfect for carrying everyday.
- Decent battery life.
- 1080p IPS 13.3" screen, nice keyboard+touchpad.
- No fans, no noise.
Cons (or not, highly dependends on your use case):
- Keyboard is not backlit.
- Underpowered.
Basically, if you want a powerhouse laptop, this isn't it. But it does absolutely everything else wonderfully.
Will probably get an Thinkpad X240/X250 off work next. They can often be purchased second-hand on ebay with a few years of on-site warranty left. Upgradeable, excellent keyboards, Linux friendly, and built like tanks.
The clickpad has a ton of travel, and all of that travel is mushy. It sometimes doesn't even register clicks, and right-clicking is an exercise in frustration.
It was so bad I thought there was something defective about the version I had, so I had it replaced, and it was the same horrible experience.
I returned it and got a used (like new) Thinkpad X250 for under $450 and cannot be happier. Computer feels rock solid, great components. Installed Linux, all works smooth, my best laptop so far. (It's a small-screen portable laptop, try to check it out, and if you like bigger screens, you may consider other series of Thinkpad, maybe).
(Also, for me, getting used to the mouse buttons positioned above the touchpad took about one week or so.)
I love the form factor and overall feel. I really like the keyboard, though I don’t care for the trackpad.
My real issue with this laptop is the screen. It’s hard on my eyes to the point that I don’t use it. I’ve had the laptop for around a year now and have had at least 5 different Linux distros on it, I’ve calibrated the display, and nothing has helped.
I wish I had bought a Thinkpad.
Depending on how you're actually developing, it may be reasonable and workable to have a fairly basic laptop - large screen, pleasant-enough keyboard, minimal CPU, memory, and battery - and throw your money at a decent headless server sitting somewhere.
Are you a web developer? Server-side that needs to work on highload, or just client-side JS? Are you developing games and need to test your builds on a good enough GPU? Or may be you're working with ML? Do you need x86, or would you be comfortable with arm?
Do you work in your office, or travel to customers a lot? Do you develop iOS or MacOS apps, do you need to run Windows (or just prefer Visual Studio), or are you comfortable with one of Linux distributions? Or, may be, you could live on Android?
What's your 'budget'? Is it $200, $500 or $1500?
There's no such thing as an average "programmer".
A while back one seller was selling packs for 3 or 4 without HDDs/batteries for around 50USD each.
Buy a refurbished or exhibition model, those are up to half-price for state of the art devices with no or minor damage.
Also, it might be helpful to know which local market you are on. In Germany I could point you to several stores.
- Windows based as I do mostly .Net
- =< £500
https://www.nbwn.de/ (happy customer)
https://www.heinzsoft-shop.de/ (happy customer)
https://www.luxnote-hannover.de/
http://thinkspot.de/
https://ok2.de/Gebrauchtgeraete:::42.html
- Budget 1000 euros
- Work: Mostly front-end but also some Node/PHP/Java and IDEs
- Location : France
I did just put a new battery in it. Other than that it has been flawless, and I bet they are cheap now.
If there were a pro with an SDXC reader, headphone jack, bar, dedicated function keys, and 32 GB memory, I'd get that.
The main problem I have with the macbook/air/pro is the edge not being rounded and digging into my wrists.
The somewhat anemic processor can be a concern as well. It in indeed capable of editing movies, but any major conversion jobs can take a lunch break to complete.
There is nothing wrong with used 3-4 years old machines. Processor power hasn't increased much. Just check the screen resolution, and factor in the extra cost if you need to add memory and swap the ssd disk.
The 440 series from 3 years ago didn't have physically separate mouse buttons on the touchpad (you just press down or tap at the corner areas of the touchpad), which some people found annoying.
Insecure: http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/security-failings-demonstrate-a...
Some fry your lap: https://www.google.com/search?q=lenovo+hot
None of the listed issues were applicable for the laptops that OP recommended
T5x0 - for a 15" Laptop
X2x0 - for 12" Laptops ( avoid the X2x0s)
W520, w530, P50, P51 - Desktop replacements 15" size
For years, the Chinese government has owned a substantial portion of Lenovo (28% as of 2006[1]). It's no secret that the Chinese government attempts to hack US firms[2].
Although I have no direct evidence that the Chinese government has installed backdoors/monitoring/etc. into Lenovo laptop hardware, I think there is much circumstantial evidence to warrant serious concerns. So much so that the U.S. government is restricting access to Lenovo computers[3].
I'm at a place with Lenovo laptops that I was with Kaspersky anti-virus[4]. Although it might arguably be easier to install nefarious stuff into software, why take chances with your hardware?
[1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4997288.stm [2] http://www.businessinsider.com/china-hackers-us-companies-gi... [3] http://freebeacon.com/national-security/military-warns-chine... [4] https://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2017-09-14/con...
I haven't bought anything myself yet, but quality and price seem very interesting to me.
I had a T420s before. It sadly died falling from a window. They are quite sturdy laptops of professional grade.
EDIT: I'm talking about the Thinkpad brand
If you're into game dev, you'll need a Windows laptop. Macs are fine for web/app dev.
For reference, here are the specs for the one I ordered:
- i7-7700HQ
- GTX 1060 (Max-Q version with slightly lower perf)
- 16GB 2400MHz DDR4 (expandable up to 32GB)
- 4K display ($150 upgrade from base)
- 128GB SSD + 1TB HDD
- Intel 8265 802.11ac WiFi (as opposed to the Killer crap that Dell uses on their XPS line)
- Thunderbolt 3 (with x4 PCIE lanes as opposed to x2 on their XPS lines)
For a fairly reasonable price of ~$1275 after tax, plus around $170 in the form of cashback from Dell's reward program (I plan on getting a monitor from them), with financing and 12 month deferred interest that's waived if paid in full by then. I believe the deal is still available for those who might be interested: https://slickdeals.net/f/10568756-new-inspiron-7000-gaming-1...
To be perfectly honest, the flashy gamer design and bulkiness were major turnoffs for me, especially compared to their much more compact and professional looking XPS line, but the much better specs/$ in the Inspiron and several crippling deficiencies in the XPS 15 (namely the Killer Wireless card and x2 lane Thunderbolt 3) made this win out in the end.
I'd have loved to get a more portable convertible tablet like the Surface Pro or Surface Book with comparable specs, but even if we don't consider the difference in dedicated graphics power, their lack of x4 lane Thunderbolt 3 removes the possibility of using desktop graphics, which was a deal breaker for me. Similar models from other manufacturers felt really lackluster compared to the Surface line, each for various different reasons.
So I ended up deciding to just get the most performant and cost-effective laptop I could find to last me a few more years until hopefully the convertibles market matures enough to remove all the compromises I've found unacceptable so far.
Build quality is the keyword, after a few years the plastics starts falling apart. Keyboard as well.
I was looking for a really well built budget notebook, with good keyboard, good screen and good battery life, low noise emission, while willing to sacrifice performance. The Swift 3 fits the bill beautifully.
I got an i3, 4GB ram, 128GB ssd with 14 inch screen (basically the SF314-51-30W6). There are different configurations available, if you are looking for more cpu, gpu, ram, screen estate. I am not sure how they affect any of the points above though
https://www.acer.com/ac/en/US/content/models/laptops/swift3
If you are doing something that doesn't require a fast machine (I.e. server side web development), then a late 90's/early 2000's laptop will do. I currently cart around a '95 Toshiba satellite pro 440cdt to use in low security areas, with the HDD swapped for a 2gb CF card. Linux, vim, nginx, several backend stacks. I wouldn't care if it broke or was stolen (like anyone would) - I can get another for £20.
If you need a machine for client side dev, then something from '05-'10 would probably cut the mustard.
Put briefly, I work in a terminal all day. Sometimes locally, but oftentimes I ssh to a machine in the cloud.
Virtually any machine would work well for me. I do like nice machines still, but I would give up a lot just to have a nice keyboard.
To be clear I also have an MBP, but I usually use the junker. The MBP gets used for potatoshop and client side testing.
I also drive a '95 golf. Cost next to nothing to buy, parts laughably cheap. £500 for a convertible that goes like stink? Yes please. I could buy any car I wanted - but I prefer something cheap that I don't care too much about, that I can readily service myself.
Also, it's far more environmentally friendly to use old stuff 'til it dies than to buy new stuff.
Old doesn't mean bad - just old.
Guess we're soul-mates now.
Re: theft, encrypted CF card, selinux, good passwords etc., and I rsync home dir over ssh nightly when I'm using it.
Cloud-only, low-end, severely limited dev (if on extreme budget): $179 currently: https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/samsung-chromebook...
non-Microsoft dev who doesn't like tinkering: $999+ https://www.apple.com/macbook-air/
Microsoft dev or tinkering Linux dev: $800+ XPS 13 still a good choice http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/cty/pdp/spd/xps-13-9360-lapto...
Security-focused dev: $1199+ Librem 13/15 https://puri.sm/
Or: buy refurbished, but don't skimp on specs.
It's got 8g RAM, an upgraded 1TB SSD and 2.9 GHz Intel Core i7 CPU. That's more than enough power for most programmers, probably for another 3 years.
Only downside is it doesn't have a retina display, but that doesn't bother me too much.