I don't see how this can possibly be an improvement on the first Chromebook Pixel from a design aesthetic point of view but I am hoping to be proven wrong.
As someone who has attempted to use the original Chromebook Pixel as a development machine, I'm glad to see they've added more storage options. The original Pixel had 32GB of storage, and this one offers 512GB.
For those unfamiliar with ChromeOS, it allows you to run Linux application using Crouton/chroot, so it really has a lot of potential as a Linux dev machine. However, I ultimately ran out of storage space, and it wasn't worth the time to figure out an inelegant scheme for mounting external storage.
That jumped out at me too, the (much) larger storage options sound great. In my chroot I always have to be very conservative about space, even on a 64GB pixel. Glad that will be a thing of the past with the new sizes.
This is actually a good reason to go with a 3rd-party manufacturer. Almost all non-Google Chromebooks include microSD card slots, so you can get another 128GB of persistently-mounted executable flash for large builds and similar.
Google does not want you to use microSD cards. Google wants you to use Google Drive.
Unfortunately, it’s on an internal USB 2 bus, which makes SD access extreme slow. All the external USB ports are at least 3.0, so I use a slim 64GB flash drive.
Huh, that's king of a weird decision, but I guess it is probably going to be near the USB connectors on the board, anyways. I guess that probably means it's falling back to a normal SPI interface instead of the faster quad-SPI MMC interface? Maybe they don't want to spend one of their chip's QSPI peripherals on storage expansion.
When the Chromebook Pixel is configured to run Linux through Crouton/chroot, it displays a warning on reboot and will automatically reflash the machine to stock ChromeOS without intervention. Not a great option if there's a chance someone non-technical will try to use the machine.
A traditional GNU/Linux distro can also be installed bare metal on it. It's a much better option for your privacy. This eliminate Google's data mining of the whole desktop experience and give you better customization options at the same time.
It's the same like saying "I don't need S class Mercedes, VW Polo has 4 wheels too.". Compare the specs of that 300 euro laptop and Pixel 2015 LS - that's not even the same league. I have Ubuntu installed on mine and with core i7, 16 GB of RAM it blows most of the laptops out of the water.
Now compare the possibilities of any decent OS versus what basically amounts to a browser... any OS can run a browser, why buy a machine that makes you use a browser exclusively and ties you to Google services for everything?
For non power users, a computer that basically just works into a browser, which is where they do most of their computing, and is really hard to mess up is a nice thing. This is great for my young child and my mother in law. I no longer have to fix their computers, because they don't break.
For power users, The intel core processor based chromebooks can run a standard Linux install as well, FreeBSD mostly works, and Windows can work with some effort. So you're not really locked in. There's a decent community of people packaging updated coreboot builds that get better at booting other operating systems over time.
I don't know that that the pixel appeals to me, but the low spec chromebooks are nice because they're cheap and they usually have decently up to date cpus -- I don't want/need a super fast CPU but I want the latest architecture. Most Windows laptops in the prices range are really bulky and have slow spinning drives instead of an SSD (granted, the SSDs are usually tiny in the chromebooks). At the price point of the Chromebook Pixel series, you're getting a higher tier CPU, so you do need to shop around and see if you're getting a good value for the parts, and if you like the system design. Honestly, I don't see why I would pay $1000+ for a laptop that doesn't have the cluster of keys around page up/page down, but I'm a dinosaur and my taste isn't very well reflected in the marketplace. At the $200 price range where I've bought a few chromebooks, I can manage using a keyboard without important keys. :)
> A traditional GNU/Linux distro can also be installed bare metal on it
I can do the same on my $200 PC. Surely this isn't the best argument to buy a chrome book. What I don't get is why would people pay a premium for something that basically amount to a web browser? Ease of us? Just install Chrome on whatever PC you have and remove the rest of the apps...
> This eliminate Google's data mining of the whole desktop experience and give you better customization options at the same time.
Hopefully $1099 will be spare change for me soon!
However, why can't someone get a cheaper laptop similar specs, perhaps worse design, just install linux on it?
"Just install Linux on it" means higher return rates due to all those people who didn't bother to read the specs. That might be more expensive to deal with than the $39 OEM Windows 10 Home license.
In my experience, 'just install Linux on it' is only enjoyable till the first piece of hardware that fails to work as you expected it to (usually Bluetooth or the touchpad). Crouton on Chrome OS quite literally 'just works' and is at least as easy to install as Linux on a PC.
Also, why would I want worse specs? I'd rather get the best hardware I can, and if it looks good, even better.
That said on the low end I bought an Acer CloudBook (Win-10 competitor to chromebook) about 2y back and literally everything works, including suspend, wifi, and all the rest.
When a linux install goes right, it's pretty great.
Hardware-wise, for that kind of price you can get a nice laptop. Heck, for $200 extra, you can even get a MacBook pro if you wanted.
Software wise, the value proposition looks even worse. Apple can justify that price tag because you are buying into the Mac ecosystem. Windows laptops can justify the price tag because, well, Windows is what people expect.
Chromebooks, however, have a "mobile-OS-pretending-to-be-a-desktop-OS" OS, irrevocably tied to the cloud and Google's services that runs "apps" and web applications disguised as desktop applications. Barf.
It's so bad that most people that cheer for these devices say "just put Linux on it".
Yeah, you know where else I can stuff Linux onto? Nearly every other Laptop in existence. Last 3 laptops in which I stuffed Linux Mint "just worked". WiFi, Bluetooth, suspend, everything. I'm either a fantastically lucky bastard, or maybe things aren't shit anymore (hint: I suck at poker).
Chromebooks made sense in their niche, as the next iteration of a netbook. One step above tablet (has a keyboard), but several steps (and dollars) below a full blown laptop. Once you cross that threshold, the value proposition looks like crap, because you can generally get a much better device.
I disagree, I find Chromebook's software to be superior. The fact that it boots up directly to a browser is a plus for me, that's where I spend 85% of my time anyways. That I don't have to worry about borking some system file is another plus.
I think you are confusing the benefits of Chromebooks in general with Google's Pixel Chromebooks. Aside from the Pixel line of > $1k Chromebooks are usually $150-$300 with a couple "premium" $500 models.
Chromebook's being tied to Google's services is a great feature for the easily replaceable vast majority of Chromebooks that are given to students, grandparents, children. They turn on in seconds and take basically zero management. Every time I open my wife's mac there are 5 updates waiting to install because she can't be bothered to click on the notification.
I take the Pixelbook (and earlier Chromebook Pixels) to be Google's attempt to do what people are criticizing Apple of forgetting to do: remember the power users. They don't plan to sell many of them but they want the option to be out there for a developer who might install linux on it anyways but also might take a stab at packaging their app on the Chromestore, or put it on the Canary channel and submit early bug reports. If a couple especially price insensitive casual users buy them that's just a bonus.
It might also have the effect of catching people's attention who then go on to buy a lower price Chromebook. Imagine a casual laptop shopper wants a small nice laptop. They look for a Macbook / Air because they are small seem pretty capable and have nice commercials. They also notice this Pixel because it's in the same price range and other search filters, so it must be similar, right? They find it runs this strange "ChromeOS" which is really just a browser. Come to think of it that's all they really need, what other Chromebooks are there? Ohh look here's one that does everything I was planning on doing with the Macbook for $300. This is not the typical HN reader, but I'd wager a good many laptop purchases work like this.
For me it certainly isn't spare change, and given that I was able to buy an Asus laptop with Ubuntu LTS pre-installed with about 300 euros, I don't really see the appeal.
As if the target audience for Chromebooks is seasoned systems developers with a thing for obscure 60s-90s programming languages?
I mean, let's get real, obviously it wouldn't appeal to you (doesn't appeal to me either).
But at least I can pretend to understand the proposition -- it's about never caring for backups and stuff, and having all your stuff in the Cloud, in a Google curated computing experience.
Not about specs or if one can install fvwm and xmonad on it.
It was directed at me, because I am a big fan of strong typed systems programming languages all the way back to Burroughs B5000, and tend to be a bit vocal about it.
> Those that value what the Chromebook offers over what a regular laptop with Linux does.
And what does Chromebook offers?
> For many also $1099 is spare change -- at least when considering what computer they can buy.
You mean it's an expensive gadget for rich hipsters to use as a vulgar display of wealth? that's what Chromebook offers over a regular laptop? then by all means...
I paid $1600 for a Chromebook Pixel LS because I knew it was great HW with Linux support. I have thousands set aside for a replacement laptop and I have problems with every single device, none of which are present on my two and a half years old Chromebook Pixel.
It runs a mainline kernel with full hardware support. It's the best for me.
Rumor has it, this new "Pixelbook" has a dev friendly keyboard (and checked the leaked shot... You can clearly tell it's not a standard Chromebook keyboard).
edit: I'd echo the comments about build quality. My average laptop life span is 12-18 months, yet I've been running this since it was released. This thing has put up with a lot, and looks like it could've come out of the box a week ago (save for a bright blemish in the screen from a foreign object in my bag, and the rubber strip being slightly ajar after adjusting the write protect screw).
Anyway, I'm not a fan of convertible laptops in general, but between the Linux support, great build quality, satisfaction with the 2015 model etc, I'll probably pick one up and see if I'm happy or want to just settle on the XPS 13.
I've had exactly the same experience (though I only paid $1300 for mine). People keep asking me why I just didn't get a 'real laptop' for that price, and don't realize that they're asking me why I don't choose a worse experience. It's both amusing and annoying.
I paid ~800 for a Dell Chromebook 13 + SSD upgrade and am very happy with it though I might, in retrospect, get a XPS 13 developer edition instead. I am happy with it all the same.
It is pricey - but that's kinda the point. The value of the Pixel brand is equally about what it supplies the ecosystem with. Having a Chromebook that is high-end with all the new bells and whistles - and very well designed hardware brings attention to Chromebooks as a whole.
It signals that Chromebooks aren't just cheap devices for students - but that they can be performance devices as well. Luxury items even.
People see this good looking device - and if they don't like the price, may be interested in other Chromebooks. I wouldn't be surprised if the Samsung flip and C302CA get a surge of popularity because of this.
This is a popular and false narrative people are creating to inoculate themselves against the anticipated poor sales of the too-expensive Pixel devices
Are we really supposed to believe that Google is going to all this trouble just to move a few units to key influencers? Come on, this is just Google trying to copy Apple in a ham-fisted way
Google still hasn't figured out that part of the premium for Apple users is being able to walk in to an Apple store in most major metro areas for assistance...meanwhile Google still thinks message boards and third-party repair constitute a premium experience
this Chromebook will flop. there's really nothing interesting about it at all...
I think they mean “Google Pixelbook is Google’s new Chromebook Pixel”. If Google has discontinued the cheap Chromebooks it would be really bad for all the school systems that rely on them as cheap laptops for students.
Google seems to be moving away from cheaper hardware, and moving it's products towards the "high end reference implementation" realm. The same thing happened with Android and the change from Nexus towards Pixel.
That doesn't have to be bad news for schools. Schools generally acquire their chromebooks from vendors like Dell and HP and Acer. These vendors will no doubt continue to build cheap systems with Chrome OS for the education market if there is demand.
> If Google has discontinued the cheap Chromebooks
There were three Google Chromebooks: Cr48, Pixel (2013), Pixel (2015). The first had no retail price, the others weren't cheap.
The cheap Chromebooks for edu etc are built and maintained with significant effort by Google (see commit authors across the Chromium OS project), but they're not "Google devices" but devices from Samsung/HP/Acer/Asus/Lenovo/...
I hope it does. I have a 2015 Pixel LS (last gen) running vanilla Ubuntu without any major issues. The disk size was always a nuisance (64GB only), so this new one looks perfect in that regard. I just wish Intel stopped their bullshit malicious behavior and started supporting LPDDR4 at last and lift the 16 GB RAM cap that LPDDR3 has.
Crouton[0] is one option for that, but I would recommend GalliumOS[1] to anyone interested in a Chromebook. My current laptop is an Acer C720, purchased for $110 and running GalliumOS. It's not shiny or new, but it gets the job done, and it's practically cheap enough to be disposable. There are admittedly times when I wish I could justify the cost of a Pixel or an XPS 13, but I can't really get past the idea of being able to buy a half-dozen other machines for the same price.
Steps for installing GalliumOS would involve replacing the firmware and bootloader, so the behavior you describe would not be an issue. Overwriting the firmware is of course something to undertake with great care.
* resize the (unused) root-c partition (use the chrx script to do it for you, if you like)
* mount it somewhere under /mnt/stateful_partition
* use that for your chroots, etc
Then you can safely use chromeos in dev mode, and not worry about the "deadly spacebar at bootup" problem.
Pressing the spacebar takes you out of dev mode, which will involve rewriting the contents of the rootfs partition currently in use. It will NOT repartition the entire drive, so your separate partition will be safe. Just revert back to dev mode, and you'll see its still there.
From what has been seen, all Chromebooks (from Google and other vendors)run the open source "Coreboot" BIOS, which they allow to be user-flashable
Beyond that, they seem to mandate a strict policy of no binary blobs, and code seems to get merged into the mainline kernel pretty quickly
My Chromebook 13 worked OOTB with Linux after I flashed the BIOS. The only piece of hardware that didn't work was the keyboard backlight control, which was added in Kernel 4.9
Serious question for HNers: Does anyone actually buy these for ChromeOS? Every time I hear these discussed it seems to center around what you can do with them that involves a new OS, either Windows or Linux. So is it really the product in demand or just the demand for hardware not bound down with a bundled OS License?
HNers probably replace the OS as soon as possible.
Those schools and companies looking for a low maintenance thin client platform won't (or they'd lose the "low maintenance" appeal)
Yes! I have a very nice Samsung Chromebook Plus, which folds into a tablet, and which has a pen, but for roughly 1/3rd the price of the new Chromebook Pixel.
I use it as a large format document reader, and as an easy-to-secure, easy-to-wipe, easy-to-restore travel machine. It's also great for sketching out design diagrams on a table in a meeting. The fact that the Chromebook Plus also runs Android apps is a huge plus.
I've never unlocked it to install Linux, because that reduces the security guarantees, which were a major selling point for me when travelling.
I bought one and used it briefly before deciding it wouldn't serve my needs. I thought I could keep it in my car so I didn't have to haul a laptop everywhere I went. Bonus was the security of keeping my MacBook at home and only having a cheap-o Chromebook in the car.
ChromeOS wasn't a problem. I was able to get a development workflow going just fine, I planned on using Mosh to shell into a development machine and I was on my way to figuring out a fluid way to edit files through perhaps SSHFS.
The problem was the hardware itself, which, after years of getting spoiled by MacBooks, left a lot to be desired. The keyboard sucked, the screen sucked, but the real deal breaker was that the battery life was utter crap, and it drained while it was sitting in my car. This made it unusable and I eventually gave it away.
I could spend the money and get better hardware, but at that point it's competing with my MacBook.
> I could spend the money and get better hardware, but at that point it's competing with my MacBook.
I spent the money, bought a high-end C302CA, and found it does indeed compete with my Macbook... resulting in rarely using the Macbook. Figures, really, but I have no objections to this outcome.
Yes. My wife and I have three kids. We have at least four Chromebooks sitting around the house for anyone to pick up and use. We used to have a couple OS X machines, but other than occasional video editing that we now do in the Instagram app, they were never used for anything a Chromebook couldn't do. My kids' schools all use Chromebooks, too, so it's easy for them to resume work when they get home.
I am an engineering manager at Google. I carry around an Asus C302CA for meetings, and I'll occasionally use it to SSH into a corp machine. I do have a Linux workstation at work for coding.
I also use the nearest Chromebook to SSH into a personal VPS where I keep stuff I want online other than the usual cloud content. And I have a couple Raspberry Pis at home for misc hacking.
The main value of ChromeOS to me is that the machines never break, and other than making sure my family enables U2F on all their accounts, there aren't any best practices, fine-tuning, or maintenance for the fleet of machines that I maintain as a dad.
Favorite models including years past: Acer C720 (fast and cheap but screen wasn't great); Toshiba Chromebook 2 (IPS, full HD, love the keyboard); Google Pixel 2 (remains the perfect laptop of any kind, but it was hard to find in quantity); Asus C302CA (currently the best; great screen + touch, OK battery, hinged design is very nice for impromptu shared viewing sessions and presentations).
I use mine the same way I use a windows computer at work; Chrome for the world is on the web now, including office applications. I also install a SSH client and VNC/rdesktop. That's about it.
My main development system is a very beefy virtual image on a vmware cluster, more capable than any laptop I could buy. I VNC into it over a vpn, doesn't matter much if my VNC host is mac/android/chromeos...
Asking what I'd do if the network is down is kinda like asking what I'd do without electricity or water. Locally the odds of failure are about the same, and I'd simply fix it or move where it works.
Yeah - I bought one for taking out of the country and on a two week family vacation (which included some stretches of camping) so that I could manage things remotely while I was gone. It's not my Macbook Pro. But it worked really well for light-duty tasks. The biggest annoyance was that I can't run my password manager on it, so I was hand-copying long strings of hard-to-type garbage from my phone fairly frequently.
I wondered if I'd switch over to it. I haven't. I like larger laptops, I prefer the MBP keyboard, and I generally need to be able to run more stuff locally. But I'm glad I have it, I use it around the house when my mac is plugged into a monitor in my office, and I'll definitely use it for all future international travel.
There was a somewhat well known Chinese brand around 2007-2009 that was making rather decent laptops.
The core of the company's collective went to found the BYD's consumer electronics unit and were the ones who made BYD's Vaio P clones. Their makes were rather stylish for a Chinese CE company
I hope this will be as cutting edge as 2015 Pixel LS (I own one, running vanilla Ubuntu): 16 GB RAM, awesome screen (2560x1700) especially good for coders because of 3:2 ratio, first laptop with USB Type-C charging, first laptop with 2 USB Type-C sockets and last but not least - design and build quality that I would argue is even better than that of Apple laptops.
Wow, the 2015 Pixel LS still go for >1000$ on ebay!
Nice to hear that it's possible to run Linux - I have a budget Acer C720p Chromebook and it's a real nuisance to set it up with Linux. Bodhi Linux is great, but once the internal battery runs out, the device is bricked and has to be reflashed with ChromeOS.
> Wow, the 2015 Pixel LS still go for >1000$ on ebay!
Might have to do with it being discontinued yet still a great piece of hardware.
> once the internal battery runs out, the device is bricked and has to be reflashed with ChromeOS.
Pixel 2015 does not have this problem (unlike the 1st gen one) - that was confirmed at some point on it's forum by one of the googlers involved in the project.
... why? normalizing hardware quirks, better HW support from Linux, direct Linux kernel boot support, a sane, documented way for OSes to interact with the boot manager... there are a lot of good reasons to use UEFI and I've yet to hear a compelling reason not to.
Just use the johnlewis coreboot roms then. Mr. Chromebox apparently used to include legacy mode (and the pages say its there), but it's not there anymore. You should be able to flash the bios from within your existing Linux install, and things should continue to work. For FreeBSD, I did have to hack the kernel a bit, because the Manufacturer name was different in his roms than other roms, and so the keyboard driver didn't attach.
There's a wiki page that describes how to modify the ChromeOS installation media to reset the gbb flags that control legacy boot on the 2013 model without needing to do a full reinstall CrOS -> fix flags -> reinstall Linux. (edit, I am shocked I found my way back there... https://dev.chromium.org/chromium-os/developer-information-f...)
Also, they claimed that it was impossible to hit that condition on the 2015 model (the gbb flags are stored in a non-volatile area), yet I did have it happen to me once. Not sure if it was possibly due to a CrOS Dev-channel update, as I was dual-booting for a while to get firmware updates.
(My 2015 model now runs a TianoCore UEFI payload in the main ROM slot, so I avoid any of those problems).
I've been using the Samsung Chromebook Plus (ARM chip) laptop/tablet hybrid the past 4 months and it's one of the best devices I've ever owned. Very cheap and has high build quality (great screen and aluminium body). The 4 years prior I used the first ARM Samsung Series 3 Chromebook (much lower build quality, but it was great before it died).
I currently use tablet mode for 2-3 hour session for portrait reading (Wikipedia Android app, long-form articles) and from time-to-time light note-taking (Squid Android app) and PDFs. Haven't used crouton or done dev work on this Chromebook yet.
Here's a quick review of modern touch-screen Chromebooks used as tablets. While the hardware is exceptional, the software is terrible in tablet-mode. Here are the painful issues that I can currently remember:
1. Easy to accidentally close the entire browser by brushing the X button (I was thinking the browser was crashing the first 4-5 times it happened, very frustrating as can't CTRL-SHIFT-T in tablet mode)
2. Easy to accidentally close a single tab for the same reason. On an Android devices there's a little undo popup to reopen tabs, but that kind of obvious touchscreen user-interface polish isn't there on ChromeOS yet
3. Two finger touchpad scroll doesn't work on Android apps for scrolling -- painful as heck when Wikipedia links open in the Android app in laptop mode
Side note: I wish there was a good app to non-destructively markup PDF files with the stylus. I think it was at WWDC this year, Apple showed great work in this area, but sad not to have found software that appears as good for Chromebooks/Android yet.
I know Google engineers will come across this post, so hopefully these pain points can be fixed eventually. Chromebook hardware is so good (and cheap), but there's a few painful areas still.
I don't usually plug on here but Kami ( web.kamihq.com ) lets you markup PDF documents on chromebooks, everything is kept as PDF annotations so they can be modified later.
Stylus drawing on the Chromebook Plus works, though there's still some improvements I want to make to that - I have one as well and it's a great device, definitely my favorite out of the dozens of chromebooks we have at the office!
This. I wish Google Drive had a way to give apps permission to access only one folder. i.e I want Kami to be able to only access the "pdfs" folder in my drive.
Right now it seems apps can either access everything or they are restricted to their own private app folder which is hidden somewhere in drive.
Yeah, the permissions system in Google Drive is quite limited - the only to get things to work reliably is to request permissions for everything which is obviously not ideal.
We used to use that, but unfortunately it's very buggy - we had many, many cases where a user would open a file with Kami, but the per-app permission would not be assigned by Google so it'd fail to open. For a while I had it so that we'd request the full drive access permission only if we hit that error, but in most cases it just meant we'd end up asking for permissions multiple times.
Probably the best option I can suggest if you don't want the permission is to use the open from local file button and choose a file from your synced drive folder or from the virtual drive folder on Chromebooks. You will lose the auto-saving to drive though.
> 3. Two finger touchpad scroll doesn't work on Android apps for scrolling -- painful as heck when Wikipedia links open in the Android app in laptop mode
I think that's a bug with the Wikipedia app. Touchpad scrolling seems to work in most Android apps. The Firefox app also had this bug, but they fixed it.
Any Android app that has a WebView (https://developer.android.com/reference/android/webkit/WebVi...) seems to experience this bug. A workaround is to uninstall updates to the WebView package in the Play store, as the original shipping one does work with two-finger touchpad scrolling.
If you star this issue, it may get more attention.
Does it run aarch64 Crouton yet? (So far, Samsung Chromebook 2 + Crouton is the best setup I’ve found for 32-bit ARM development. Unlike phones and RPi form factor computers, it run at a stable clock speed under load, so it’s actually useful for comparing the performance of alternative implementations of a function. I’m wondering if Pro could be the aarch64 analog.)
I love the Chromebook Asus C201PA. All RockChip ARM hardware. Supercheap and no proprietary firmware needed if you disable 3D acceleration, which is very slow anyway. A really unique machine. Targeted by LibreBoot of course.
>Chromebook Pixel units in that it folds into a tablet
Folds? That is far inferior that the iPad Pro and Surface (two most serious competitor, particularly Surface). Surface has the opportunity to dominate the market.
God, if this was detachable, I would ditch surface for this in heartbeat. Running linux command line app. Running Chrome apps natively. Running android apps (in foreseeable future). It is like dream, if it was detachable.
Cool dev machine but for 1200 dollars I want to be able to run Microsoft office when people send me documents without asking them to reformat and also edit and modify images with standard software when necessary.
In a collaborative world it is not worth the pain to pay 1200 and not be able to work with people who do not code.
Chrome books are acceptable at the 200 dollar price point (I have one that dual boots archlinux) but they are not replaceable as a main work station unless you never interact with people who use popular software.
My couple years old Pixel runs the Play Store, and most apps are compatible. You run into some apps that don't support every tablets and larger devices, but the big players know what they're doing.
Honestly though, once I bought the thing and tried out Google Docs, I haven't bothered to see if Office works on it. It reads and saves to .docx, and it's nice not having to send or store documents, I just share them.
They can be glitchy(in the sense they are not supported) in my experience not to mention the Page Down doesn't work in Android applications on a Chromebook(unless the app has implemented it which is incredibly rare). I'm just trying to say they aren't useful for many people but just not for me.
You're right that there are android apps for some of the software I mentioned, but my experience always feels like they are some compromise of the real thing (formatting issues, some problems with commenting involving multiple people...) and image editing software doesn't compare with adobe. My point is this type of compromise is acceptable at a lower price range but not when you're paying 1200 or more.
Yeah, the goodness or badness of those numbers really depends on what Google's intent is in selling them directly. Is it really trying to get into the business of selling phones for profit? If that's the primary goal, then 1-2mm is pretty 'meh' in terms of making a dent in the global high end phone market.
Without knowing what their intent is, the goodness or badness of it can only be speculation. Which won't stop people from stating either position as fact.
Its one step towards high-end line like the iphone is going for. Having 1200 bucks computer makes it ok to have 1600 next year. Same is happening with new pixel phone. They went for the luxury clients copying apple style.
You've got to be kidding. Have you actually tried that with highly complex documents using tracked revisions, comments, embedded objects, and special styles? It just doesn't work.
To people tempted by the Pixelbook, why not by a Macbook for that price? instead of getting a machine which OS basically amounts to a browser forcing you into google cloud services? You're basically paying a premium to get data-mined... And MacOS runs Chrome so I don't see the big deal here.
"Linux inventor Linus Torvalds replaced Chrome OS on his Chromebook Pixel with Fedora 18, employing Red Hat engineer David Miller's work. Torvalds had praised the Pixel screen but not the operating system, which he felt was better suited to slower hardware." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromebook_Pixel)
That's what I'm thinking. I've bought 2 Chromebooks, most recently I bought a 2013 Chromebook Pixel new-in-box in 2017. I don't know where it sat all those years but for $300 it was an amazing deal and I've come to appreciate the amazing build quality. When I first heard rumors of a new Chromebook Pixel the rumored price was $799. At that price it'd still be the top-of-line for Chromebooks - the nearest "premium" one would be a Samsung Chromebook Plus for $499 and my first was a $249 Asus Flip. But at $799 I wouldn't also have to consider whether I'd be better off getting a Macbook.
I guess what I can infer from that is there is no way to make a premium build (strong metal body and hinges, keyboard that feels nice, good screen) for a lower price even with an OS that allows you to skimp on more of the internals (slower processor, less ram, less storage).
You're paying a premium for good linux and coreboot support. A macbook isn't that unique, and quite a sink of money since it can't run any other OS too well. It certainly can't run linux, and windows isn't too good either. A good linux laptop that ships with coreboot is rare. You can also run windows on these things generally.
What do you mean a Macbook can't run Linux? macOS is a Unix.
As for Windows it works great in either a VM or dual boot. I know people that have bought a Mac because they can (legally) run more software than any other computer.
None of the macbooks made in the last couple of years or so can run linux. People are hacking/reverse engineering things here and there. It may eventually become usable, but it would likely be obsolete by then. Here's a good summary:
What token are you talking about? If I build an user land application on top of ChromeOS, can I directly call functions exposed by the Linux kernel in the standard way? If so, then ChromeOS may indeed be a Linux distro.
macOS is a Unix because it's certified as such by The Open Group. It's built on top of the XNU kernel and is POSIX compliant.
> If I build an user land application on top of ChromeOS, can I directly call functions exposed by the Linux kernel in the standard way? If so, then ChromeOS may indeed be a Linux distro.
Of course you can. There's no "may" about it. You seem rather unsure of what ChromeOS actually is.
Its just a linux distro. In fact, its much closer to more mainstream linux distro's than more exotic linux variants like android.
It has the linux kernel (duh!), but also glibc, gnu coreutils, bash - the whole shebang. In fact, the only thing (purposely) left out in standard mode is a terminal allowing you to run bash.
In dev-mode, that is given, so you then have terminal access to run bash, and automatic root access.
Nearly all linux pkgs will compile, install and run, "as is". In fact, there's even chromeos-specific package managers which cater to chromeos just as apt caters to debian, rpm to redhat, etc.
And google themselves give you a bash script which restores portage and installs various precompiled ebuilds.
Yes, ChromeOS is effectively a Gentoo Linux build.
Last I checked, gentoo allows you to "directly call functions exposed by the Linux kernel in the standard way" (but I've only been running gentoo since 2002, so what do I know?)
> certified as such by The Open Group
That may have been relevant in the 80's, but for over a generation, linux and/or the gnu suite has been the de-facto standard for what "unix" really is. Which is why most of the official "I've paid the open group their fee so that they can stamp me as official" unix distro's/os's have, in fact, a linux binary emulation layer.
Gnu-linux is basically the lingua-franca of the unix world. The only reason they never got this certification which some think is so important is ... because noone wanted to bother paying the subscription fee back in the 90's.
Thats it.
>> Rendering your original complaint moot
> I had a complaint?
Hmm, looking back at this sub-thread, I guess thats more applicable directly to 'camus2'.
You were wading in on that side of the fence, which is why I hung my reply off of your comment. It pretty much applies to both of you.
Basically, he was saying "why bother with a chromebook, mac is 'proper' unix, and so can run lots of unixy stuff, in addition to chrome. Chromebooks can't".
Well, ChromeOS is also a proper unix, and can run lots (and lots, and lots) of unixy stuff, in addition to chrome - with the caveat that you have to put it into dev mode first.
Not as fond of the build quality on this new Pixel.
The original Chromebook Pixel and Pixel LS is probably my favorite design of any laptop--the aluminum body was gorgeous, and the rectangular "slab" look that did not taper off was distinctly unique and not Macbook-derivative.
The new one looks like it has a glass back (?) similar to the Pixel phone.
Not at all, the original Pixel Chromebook is a design classic, the updated one is notionally better but it is more like a mid-life update that you get with a car, despite the extra features the design is not so pure. Think of it as like the VW camper van going from split-screen to normal windscreen, better but not if you are into design classics.
The keyboard is designed without legacy cruft, it is still QWERTY but very much redesigned and not to emulate an Apple - there are none of those weird keys with weird symbols on them in the place of where things like the CTRL key should be. There are also no silly Windows keys.
The screen is 3:2 with a touch screen. Apple do not do that. Sure they do 'retina' and that gets the resolution up to Pixel levels of awesomeness.
The speakers are below the keyboard rather than some tinny things hidden under lots of holes drilled in aluminium. I don't believe you can get better sound on a laptop or tablet than what the original Pixel does.
The colour-bar on the lid is not fruit shaped. It does things too, like an Easter Egg rather than 'obligatory branding'.
The tactile look and feel aspects are definitely an improvement on what Apple offers. The keyboard is much nicer for actual typing. I think the same goes for the trackpad but I use an external mouse in Apple world whereas with the Pixel there is no need to plug stuff like external pointing devices in. This is subjective to a certain extent, some people prefer cheap wine.
Then the final form factor. There is no roundy-roundy-ness. It is not overly branded with fruit-style images. It is square, not round. Even the colour sets the Pixel apart from Apple products.
The Pixel is a start from a blank piece of paper design, it is not a copy of a rival product, it is an example of what can be done and that is not the same idea as 'derivative'.
Very important observation: this article links to a M.2 2242 SSD with 64-512GB capacity and there seems to be ample stock on Amazon.com. This is important because the second SSD on the ThinkPad T470 and consequently the ThinkPad Anniversary 25 can only be a 2242 one and they are a major PITA to find. While some 2242 drives were broken for a few months it has been fixed a week ago https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-T400-T500-and-newer-T/... on the T470 so I fully expect the TA25 to come with the fix. Because what is missing from the Lenovo forum thread is that Transcend 512GB is the only one actually available at such a capacity and physical size.
And, I am guessing, everyone will be getting the only laptop with modern specs and a usable keyboard, right :) ?
Surprisingly enough, the keyboard on the Toshiba is really good. I think I even type faster on it than my desktop keyboard.
Trackpad is a different story (I guess it's average but I suck with trackpads in general because I rarely use it). I feel like it takes me 10 seconds to select text with a trackpad when I could do it in like 1 second with a mouse. Watching me use a trackpad is easily comparable to an ape trying to use hand tools.
Try convincing a Tesla owner to give it up for a Yugo before trying to convince a classic ThinkPad zealot -- someone with a six year old ThinkPad T420s, who kept it because of the superior keyboard -- to give it up for some random keyboard and no TrackPoint.
Earlier models as well, the t450s for certain. I tried to buy a 2242 in the UK about a year ago and gave up in the end (though amazon may have had stock, I don't shop there).
I bought a Pixel a few years back, knowing full well that it was a luxury expense compared to the other Chromebooks out there (and yet still cheaper than what I'd spend on just about anything else out there). One of the coolest parts was getting so much free drive storage with it, but now that seems to be something you get with a lot of Google products. I always have a Windows machine from work, but VS Code runs on both machines.
I have to say I still use my Pixel everyday and it's held up very well, I can still open it with one finger, it's as fast as the day I got it even after updates, and I use it with anything after I got a USB-C docking station from Plugable (and learned how to run Linux with Crouton). Before I got the docking station I didn't even realize USB-C actually does network connections too. I also learned how much i don't really care for touch screens, they either get dirty really easy or I'm a lot greasier of a person that I ever realized.
I bought the non-LS Pixel, the 2015 model. Great machine, felt very well built, etc.. but I had no use for the touchscreen, and eventually sold the system to a friend while it still had some resale value left.
My normal Chromebook workflow just couldn't justify the $1K model versus one of the $200-350 "low end" units with a FHD non-touchscreen.
The new ones having much better local storage helps... it's honestly my second biggest complaint (behind the first, which is with my kernel version jack autosense has literally never worked correctly, so I have to manually toggle between headphones and the built-in speakers, which is maddening, but that's what you got when you wanted to run generic Linux and not ChromeOS or Linux-over-ChromeOS. I haven't had a chance to compile one of the kernel versions after the community upstreamed all of Google's drivers into Linus's tree).
Despite being called a "Chromebook", it's really more of an Ultrabook, albeit one with slightly less refinement than a MacBook. However, it's still a pretty sturdy machine and fills the role of a travel ultrabook pretty well. The screen's form factor and the random-shitty-key-free keyboard were honestly the two biggest selling factors for me, and I'm quite enjoying them both. It's much more convenient to code on than any other laptop of its size I've used, thanks to the screen's unusual aspect ratio and high DPI.
The biggest things I don't like about it are all about refinement; scrolling isn't as nice as two-finger scrolling on a Mac, you can accidentally hit the power button and suspend-to-disk the machine if you don't forget to configure your machine to disable to power button after boot, keyboard doens't have a "Fn" key, so you can't use the multimedia keys and the F-keys without some software jiggery-pokery... and just small bits like that. Most of these are complete non-issues if you intend on using ChromeOS... but I have absolutely no desire to turn my PCs into the same kind of walled gardens that we have in the mobile space.
Is there any real technical reason to have soldered RAM and storage ? A well built $1200 linux laptop would still be OK if it weren't artificially gimped. M.2 ssds are already quite thin. So the form factor argument doesn't hold. The storage markup on these devices is huge considering that a 1 TB nvme pcie m.2 ssd goes for under $350 (even less during sales).
I've been using an Asus Chromebook. I don't have the specs, but it's ~ a year old and was at the higher end of sub $500 pack at the time.
I've pretty much given up on using it. I liked to use it for ssh over to my real computer (over wifi) to get work done; but this was always noticeably laggy. Trying to use basic tools on it (zoom, slack) is painfully slow - and if you run two bandwidth-hungry things at once, forget it. I have to jump through hoops to get a decent shell for ssh that Just Works - which sorta means it doesn't Just Work after all. Running anything heavier than the shell is slow.
I don't know the specs on the one, but I think I'm done with ARM on anything but phones. At least when them, I don't have any expectation of good performance from applications/sites to begin with.
From my experience with a 2013 Pixel I got from I/O, these machines come with a huge caveat: you can't get them repaired. At all. I cracked the glass over the screen on mine and called Google about getting it fixed, expecting them to tell me that it'd cost $X00 for an out-of-warranty repair. But they wouldn't take it at all. They suggested contacting 3rd-party repair shops, but some research into that nixed the idea pretty quick.
So if something goes wrong with machine 1 day after your warranty runs out, you're probably SoL. Apparently replacing the battery isn't too difficult, but, other than that, you don't have a lot of options. That's okay for a $300 laptop. But I don't think it's acceptable for a $1,200 one.
In the UK I would have gone to the local Trading Standards Office. Seems all people in the US can do is complain on websites and hope someone online-famous enough takes up their cause.
I assume you hear that from someone who's either very confused or just making it up. Consumer regulation in the US is generally rather weak as compared to the EU. Some other regulation less so, but the idea that the US has the most regulation isn't really credible.
Some aspects of the American right-wing like making these very extreme claims, presumably on the basis that some people won't bother to check. Another even more implausible one is that America is the most-taxed country; this simply isn't even vaguely true no matter what way you look at it.
My Pixel's disk gave up after over a year's usage, so I thought I was screwed, but then found out that in UK (EU) warranty for electronic goods is 2 years, called google support and they sent me a brand new one, no questions asked.
+1. I'll never buy Google hardware again. 6 weeks ago, my Pixel C tablet bricked itself playing Minecraft: Pocket Edition (my guess is that the heat corrupted some of the flash memory). Google agreed to replace it under warranty, but they didn't manage to address the package correctly (they forgot to include some details, like the street, city, zipcode, and state (according to FedEx)).
What followed was 4 weeks of calls to Google support. Each time they promised they would reach out to the "shipping partner" and get it sorted. I was also receiving emails threatening to charge me the full cost of the replacement device because I hadn't sent in the broken tablet yet.
Eventually the package got delivered... back to the Google warehouse. Google wasn't aware of this until I called them up - their system assumed it had been delivered to my house. Another promise to fix the situation - and this time they managed to actually get a package to my house. Only it was a Pixel C Keyboard, not a tablet.
Another call, another promise. It's been over a week now and the latest package has not yet been shipped, it's stuck in the order confirmed state.
So, 6 weeks later, still no replacement. Luckily the tablet is mostly for entertainment, I personally plan to never rely on Google for anything important like making a living.
Google customer support is a complete joke. I can appreciate their philosophy of trying to spend as little money on it as possible by making quality software... but at some point people are going to call you and it needs to not be a horrible experience.
Especially as they've moved into hardware. Gotta get that right.
There weren't exactly unhelpful last time I talked to them but I would like to say someone did hang up on me. I wasn't even being unreasonable I just told them I was wondering if they mind waiting on the phone while I installed something.
not sure about LG, but in 6P Huawei just produced it according google design and requirements, they never had problems 6P was plagued with, which can't be said about LG with their own phones bootlooping
I don't have a problem with their hardware design, just how they handle support. I'm specifically avoiding their hardware in the future because of the customer experience I've had, not for any other reason.
Nexus 5X bootlooped after 1.3 years of rather gentle use.
Replaced a 2013 Moto X that stopped receiving updates well before the 2 year mark, despite being bought when Google owned Moto and was promising timely and continuing updates.
I don't take anything from Google after Google Docs (now Drive, whatever) seriously. Well yeah, the self-driving cars, maybe... but that's not a released product yet, anyway. Which simply saves me the effort, for now, of considering how Google will flush that tech, if and when.
Another "bad Google support on chromebooks" anecdote:
I bought a Chromebook (forget which one) direct from Google. It was DOA, wouldn't even turn on. So I went through the whole return process and a few weeks later I got a replacement (which had some issues of it's own, but that's another story).
After using it for a few days I realized I wasn't happy with it so I decided to return it. No problem, I thought, they have a 30 day return policy.
Except the 30 days started counting from the day my original broken one was shipped. Even though I wasn't in possession of a working device for the vast majority of that time.
I did manage to get someone on the phone but he was inflexible on the written policy and steadfastly refused to escalate the call. After arguing for about an hour I finally gave up.
That sucks. I'll note to just return a broken one and buy another new one to get full warranty. Hope you were able to resell it without much of a loss.
I've just recently gotten OpenVPN and SSH working on my Chromebook and it is fairly decent, though with some limitations that make me wonder who is really paying $1,100 and up for a Chromebook...
I got one of those crazy HP 13 chromebooks, a Pixel-level device that at the time a few months ago was really the only available option more recent than the Pixel. I ended up finding it on Woot for $520, instead of nearly a grand.
It has the high res display, charges over USB-C so I can use the same charger for my laptop, chromebook, phone, and Fiance's laptop. The device is nice.
The OpenVPN was not TOO bad to set up, but you seem to only be able to have one VPN active at a time. So I can connect to either the office OR the data center OR my personal network, where my laptop can connect to all of them.
The SSH works great, but doesn't have an SSH agent so copying from one remote machine to another doesn't really work. It looks like there is some agent option but I haven't gotten that working. One nice feature of the SSH program is that it can map the remote system as a local Chromebook drive, so I can drag and drop downloaded files when I need to.
For programming I'm looking at Cloud9, which I've played with in the past but never seriously. Probably will just end up SSHing to a box and running vim, I do very little development.
For running Ansible sysadmin tasks, I'm either going to have to go into my desktop and set up an SSH agent to handle the connections to all the other hosts, or use Rundeck once I've committed and pushed the Ansible changes.
So, 90% of what I NEED a laptop for at home (something broke at work, working on personal servers/network), the Chromebook will do, though not quite as nicely as a laptop.
Also, I'm using Enpass for passwords, and on the Chromebook I'm using the Android app, which kind of sucks compared to the Linux app version.
The comparison is that around the same time I got a Lenovo T470s running Linux. Also has high res display, also is tiny. It has something weird going on with the mouse buttons where after a suspend they sometimes "stick".
The Chromebook is less expensive, though not really disposable. The $250 chromebook I tried really kind of sucked.
I have the same one. It's been great w/ crouton (although crouton chromium is noticeably slower than chrome from the "native" os). It's a great, slim beast for $500, I paid the higher price to get it earlier as my primary "home" laptop, and I love it. It's bridging me quite nicely until apple either zigs or zags on their laptop line.
Terrible design; $99 pen with no place to stow it.
Apple style price jacking for storage; $1199-128GB, $1399-256GB, $1749-512.
I don't see this hardware line going anywhere either. I won't be surprised if the pen requires charging like Crapple. Samsung has better offering with Plus/Pro at less than half the price.
Why did Google let the guy who rekt Moto run Pixel and Nexus into the ground? This is terrible.
Unless I missed something, we have different price points for 3 different models, but apart from storage capacity, no mention of other spec diffs between these models.
So we don't know if these models also have increasing ram, or more powerful cpu's, in addition to the extra on-board storage.
Until we get the full specs of all the models.
Which is why ascribing the price increases solely to the increased storage size is, well, silly.
If you have these "widely available" specs showing what exactly is different across the 3 models, then spill the beans. Otherwise ...
If the SSD specs are accurate, this could be fantastic. The biggest problem with the last Chromebook was the storage capacity for Linux from what I can gather.
No TensorFlow transistors? Seems like a squandered opportunity to further #MLAllTheThings and to build the first real consumer alternative to #Nvidiopoly.
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[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 358 ms ] threadFor those unfamiliar with ChromeOS, it allows you to run Linux application using Crouton/chroot, so it really has a lot of potential as a Linux dev machine. However, I ultimately ran out of storage space, and it wasn't worth the time to figure out an inelegant scheme for mounting external storage.
Google does not want you to use microSD cards. Google wants you to use Google Drive.
For power users, The intel core processor based chromebooks can run a standard Linux install as well, FreeBSD mostly works, and Windows can work with some effort. So you're not really locked in. There's a decent community of people packaging updated coreboot builds that get better at booting other operating systems over time.
I don't know that that the pixel appeals to me, but the low spec chromebooks are nice because they're cheap and they usually have decently up to date cpus -- I don't want/need a super fast CPU but I want the latest architecture. Most Windows laptops in the prices range are really bulky and have slow spinning drives instead of an SSD (granted, the SSDs are usually tiny in the chromebooks). At the price point of the Chromebook Pixel series, you're getting a higher tier CPU, so you do need to shop around and see if you're getting a good value for the parts, and if you like the system design. Honestly, I don't see why I would pay $1000+ for a laptop that doesn't have the cluster of keys around page up/page down, but I'm a dinosaur and my taste isn't very well reflected in the marketplace. At the $200 price range where I've bought a few chromebooks, I can manage using a keyboard without important keys. :)
I can do the same on my $200 PC. Surely this isn't the best argument to buy a chrome book. What I don't get is why would people pay a premium for something that basically amount to a web browser? Ease of us? Just install Chrome on whatever PC you have and remove the rest of the apps...
> This eliminate Google's data mining of the whole desktop experience and give you better customization options at the same time.
Yes, by giving more money to Google...
For many also $1099 is spare change -- at least when considering what computer they can buy.
You can want a hassle-free Cloud-based computer whether you are a millionaire or unemployed.
Also, why would I want worse specs? I'd rather get the best hardware I can, and if it looks good, even better.
That said on the low end I bought an Acer CloudBook (Win-10 competitor to chromebook) about 2y back and literally everything works, including suspend, wifi, and all the rest.
When a linux install goes right, it's pretty great.
Because they want the "all Cloud, all the way" simplicity of a Chromebook as opposed to the "you're on your own" standard Linux operational mode.
Take this $1K device.
Hardware-wise, for that kind of price you can get a nice laptop. Heck, for $200 extra, you can even get a MacBook pro if you wanted.
Software wise, the value proposition looks even worse. Apple can justify that price tag because you are buying into the Mac ecosystem. Windows laptops can justify the price tag because, well, Windows is what people expect.
Chromebooks, however, have a "mobile-OS-pretending-to-be-a-desktop-OS" OS, irrevocably tied to the cloud and Google's services that runs "apps" and web applications disguised as desktop applications. Barf.
It's so bad that most people that cheer for these devices say "just put Linux on it".
Yeah, you know where else I can stuff Linux onto? Nearly every other Laptop in existence. Last 3 laptops in which I stuffed Linux Mint "just worked". WiFi, Bluetooth, suspend, everything. I'm either a fantastically lucky bastard, or maybe things aren't shit anymore (hint: I suck at poker).
Chromebooks made sense in their niche, as the next iteration of a netbook. One step above tablet (has a keyboard), but several steps (and dollars) below a full blown laptop. Once you cross that threshold, the value proposition looks like crap, because you can generally get a much better device.
Not having to care about software and hardware specs like those you've mentioned.
Those people value closed OS that's irrevocably tied to the Cloud (as a good thing).
And I shouldn't even have to point it out. That's literally the marketing proposition behind Chromebooks from the start.
>It's so bad that most people that cheer for these devices say "just put Linux on it".
You'd be surprised.
Chromebook's being tied to Google's services is a great feature for the easily replaceable vast majority of Chromebooks that are given to students, grandparents, children. They turn on in seconds and take basically zero management. Every time I open my wife's mac there are 5 updates waiting to install because she can't be bothered to click on the notification.
I take the Pixelbook (and earlier Chromebook Pixels) to be Google's attempt to do what people are criticizing Apple of forgetting to do: remember the power users. They don't plan to sell many of them but they want the option to be out there for a developer who might install linux on it anyways but also might take a stab at packaging their app on the Chromestore, or put it on the Canary channel and submit early bug reports. If a couple especially price insensitive casual users buy them that's just a bonus.
It might also have the effect of catching people's attention who then go on to buy a lower price Chromebook. Imagine a casual laptop shopper wants a small nice laptop. They look for a Macbook / Air because they are small seem pretty capable and have nice commercials. They also notice this Pixel because it's in the same price range and other search filters, so it must be similar, right? They find it runs this strange "ChromeOS" which is really just a browser. Come to think of it that's all they really need, what other Chromebooks are there? Ohh look here's one that does everything I was planning on doing with the Macbook for $300. This is not the typical HN reader, but I'd wager a good many laptop purchases work like this.
I mean, let's get real, obviously it wouldn't appeal to you (doesn't appeal to me either).
But at least I can pretend to understand the proposition -- it's about never caring for backups and stuff, and having all your stuff in the Cloud, in a Google curated computing experience.
Not about specs or if one can install fvwm and xmonad on it.
care to clarify?
Most of the new languages are written on unix-like systems first..
And what does Chromebook offers?
> For many also $1099 is spare change -- at least when considering what computer they can buy.
You mean it's an expensive gadget for rich hipsters to use as a vulgar display of wealth? that's what Chromebook offers over a regular laptop? then by all means...
A Google-curated, hassle-free computing experience. Those that don't want one can always, I dunno, not buy it.
>You mean it's an expensive gadget for rich hipsters to use as a vulgar display of wealth?
No, I mean that if you're pinching pennies, you can always buy something else, even if you'd really like a Chromebook.
A Pixelbook is for those wanting such an experience, AND being able to afford one (And of course there are much cheaper Chromebooks out there).
If you don't like yourself a Chromebook, on the other hand, why are you even discussing this?
It runs a mainline kernel with full hardware support. It's the best for me.
Rumor has it, this new "Pixelbook" has a dev friendly keyboard (and checked the leaked shot... You can clearly tell it's not a standard Chromebook keyboard).
edit: I'd echo the comments about build quality. My average laptop life span is 12-18 months, yet I've been running this since it was released. This thing has put up with a lot, and looks like it could've come out of the box a week ago (save for a bright blemish in the screen from a foreign object in my bag, and the rubber strip being slightly ajar after adjusting the write protect screw).
Anyway, I'm not a fan of convertible laptops in general, but between the Linux support, great build quality, satisfaction with the 2015 model etc, I'll probably pick one up and see if I'm happy or want to just settle on the XPS 13.
It signals that Chromebooks aren't just cheap devices for students - but that they can be performance devices as well. Luxury items even.
People see this good looking device - and if they don't like the price, may be interested in other Chromebooks. I wouldn't be surprised if the Samsung flip and C302CA get a surge of popularity because of this.
Are we really supposed to believe that Google is going to all this trouble just to move a few units to key influencers? Come on, this is just Google trying to copy Apple in a ham-fisted way
Google still hasn't figured out that part of the premium for Apple users is being able to walk in to an Apple store in most major metro areas for assistance...meanwhile Google still thinks message boards and third-party repair constitute a premium experience
this Chromebook will flop. there's really nothing interesting about it at all...
That doesn't have to be bad news for schools. Schools generally acquire their chromebooks from vendors like Dell and HP and Acer. These vendors will no doubt continue to build cheap systems with Chrome OS for the education market if there is demand.
There were three Google Chromebooks: Cr48, Pixel (2013), Pixel (2015). The first had no retail price, the others weren't cheap.
The cheap Chromebooks for edu etc are built and maintained with significant effort by Google (see commit authors across the Chromium OS project), but they're not "Google devices" but devices from Samsung/HP/Acer/Asus/Lenovo/...
[0] https://github.com/dnschneid/crouton [1] http://galliumos.org/
Just make sure the spacebar is never pressed at boot. That's all it takes to screw up your nice dual boot setup.
* resize the (unused) root-c partition (use the chrx script to do it for you, if you like)
* mount it somewhere under /mnt/stateful_partition
* use that for your chroots, etc
Then you can safely use chromeos in dev mode, and not worry about the "deadly spacebar at bootup" problem.
Pressing the spacebar takes you out of dev mode, which will involve rewriting the contents of the rootfs partition currently in use. It will NOT repartition the entire drive, so your separate partition will be safe. Just revert back to dev mode, and you'll see its still there.
Or ... put everything on a mini usb stick :)
Beyond that, they seem to mandate a strict policy of no binary blobs, and code seems to get merged into the mainline kernel pretty quickly
My Chromebook 13 worked OOTB with Linux after I flashed the BIOS. The only piece of hardware that didn't work was the keyboard backlight control, which was added in Kernel 4.9
I use it as a large format document reader, and as an easy-to-secure, easy-to-wipe, easy-to-restore travel machine. It's also great for sketching out design diagrams on a table in a meeting. The fact that the Chromebook Plus also runs Android apps is a huge plus.
I've never unlocked it to install Linux, because that reduces the security guarantees, which were a major selling point for me when travelling.
ChromeOS wasn't a problem. I was able to get a development workflow going just fine, I planned on using Mosh to shell into a development machine and I was on my way to figuring out a fluid way to edit files through perhaps SSHFS.
The problem was the hardware itself, which, after years of getting spoiled by MacBooks, left a lot to be desired. The keyboard sucked, the screen sucked, but the real deal breaker was that the battery life was utter crap, and it drained while it was sitting in my car. This made it unusable and I eventually gave it away.
I could spend the money and get better hardware, but at that point it's competing with my MacBook.
I spent the money, bought a high-end C302CA, and found it does indeed compete with my Macbook... resulting in rarely using the Macbook. Figures, really, but I have no objections to this outcome.
I am an engineering manager at Google. I carry around an Asus C302CA for meetings, and I'll occasionally use it to SSH into a corp machine. I do have a Linux workstation at work for coding.
I also use the nearest Chromebook to SSH into a personal VPS where I keep stuff I want online other than the usual cloud content. And I have a couple Raspberry Pis at home for misc hacking.
The main value of ChromeOS to me is that the machines never break, and other than making sure my family enables U2F on all their accounts, there aren't any best practices, fine-tuning, or maintenance for the fleet of machines that I maintain as a dad.
Favorite models including years past: Acer C720 (fast and cheap but screen wasn't great); Toshiba Chromebook 2 (IPS, full HD, love the keyboard); Google Pixel 2 (remains the perfect laptop of any kind, but it was hard to find in quantity); Asus C302CA (currently the best; great screen + touch, OK battery, hinged design is very nice for impromptu shared viewing sessions and presentations).
Well then, not biased at all.
My main development system is a very beefy virtual image on a vmware cluster, more capable than any laptop I could buy. I VNC into it over a vpn, doesn't matter much if my VNC host is mac/android/chromeos...
Asking what I'd do if the network is down is kinda like asking what I'd do without electricity or water. Locally the odds of failure are about the same, and I'd simply fix it or move where it works.
I wondered if I'd switch over to it. I haven't. I like larger laptops, I prefer the MBP keyboard, and I generally need to be able to run more stuff locally. But I'm glad I have it, I use it around the house when my mac is plugged into a monitor in my office, and I'll definitely use it for all future international travel.
(Asus Chromebook Flip, FWIW.)
Google will have tough luck registering this trademark in China
The core of the company's collective went to found the BYD's consumer electronics unit and were the ones who made BYD's Vaio P clones. Their makes were rather stylish for a Chinese CE company
Perhaps they can just rebrand them as Mac and sell them at one of the fake apple stores instead if this becomes a problem..
Nice to hear that it's possible to run Linux - I have a budget Acer C720p Chromebook and it's a real nuisance to set it up with Linux. Bodhi Linux is great, but once the internal battery runs out, the device is bricked and has to be reflashed with ChromeOS.
Might have to do with it being discontinued yet still a great piece of hardware.
> once the internal battery runs out, the device is bricked and has to be reflashed with ChromeOS.
Pixel 2015 does not have this problem (unlike the 1st gen one) - that was confirmed at some point on it's forum by one of the googlers involved in the project.
... why? normalizing hardware quirks, better HW support from Linux, direct Linux kernel boot support, a sane, documented way for OSes to interact with the boot manager... there are a lot of good reasons to use UEFI and I've yet to hear a compelling reason not to.
Also, they claimed that it was impossible to hit that condition on the 2015 model (the gbb flags are stored in a non-volatile area), yet I did have it happen to me once. Not sure if it was possibly due to a CrOS Dev-channel update, as I was dual-booting for a while to get firmware updates.
(My 2015 model now runs a TianoCore UEFI payload in the main ROM slot, so I avoid any of those problems).
I currently use tablet mode for 2-3 hour session for portrait reading (Wikipedia Android app, long-form articles) and from time-to-time light note-taking (Squid Android app) and PDFs. Haven't used crouton or done dev work on this Chromebook yet.
Here's a quick review of modern touch-screen Chromebooks used as tablets. While the hardware is exceptional, the software is terrible in tablet-mode. Here are the painful issues that I can currently remember:
1. Easy to accidentally close the entire browser by brushing the X button (I was thinking the browser was crashing the first 4-5 times it happened, very frustrating as can't CTRL-SHIFT-T in tablet mode)
2. Easy to accidentally close a single tab for the same reason. On an Android devices there's a little undo popup to reopen tabs, but that kind of obvious touchscreen user-interface polish isn't there on ChromeOS yet
3. Two finger touchpad scroll doesn't work on Android apps for scrolling -- painful as heck when Wikipedia links open in the Android app in laptop mode
Side note: I wish there was a good app to non-destructively markup PDF files with the stylus. I think it was at WWDC this year, Apple showed great work in this area, but sad not to have found software that appears as good for Chromebooks/Android yet.
I know Google engineers will come across this post, so hopefully these pain points can be fixed eventually. Chromebook hardware is so good (and cheap), but there's a few painful areas still.
Stylus drawing on the Chromebook Plus works, though there's still some improvements I want to make to that - I have one as well and it's a great device, definitely my favorite out of the dozens of chromebooks we have at the office!
(I'm a founder @ Kami)
Why doesn't Kami use the "https://www.googleapis.com/auth/drive.file permission" scope that gives only access to files created or opened with the app?
Right now it seems apps can either access everything or they are restricted to their own private app folder which is hidden somewhere in drive.
Probably the best option I can suggest if you don't want the permission is to use the open from local file button and choose a file from your synced drive folder or from the virtual drive folder on Chromebooks. You will lose the auto-saving to drive though.
I think that's a bug with the Wikipedia app. Touchpad scrolling seems to work in most Android apps. The Firefox app also had this bug, but they fixed it.
https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=704051
Any Android app that has a WebView (https://developer.android.com/reference/android/webkit/WebVi...) seems to experience this bug. A workaround is to uninstall updates to the WebView package in the Play store, as the original shipping one does work with two-finger touchpad scrolling.
If you star this issue, it may get more attention.
Folds? That is far inferior that the iPad Pro and Surface (two most serious competitor, particularly Surface). Surface has the opportunity to dominate the market.
God, if this was detachable, I would ditch surface for this in heartbeat. Running linux command line app. Running Chrome apps natively. Running android apps (in foreseeable future). It is like dream, if it was detachable.
In a collaborative world it is not worth the pain to pay 1200 and not be able to work with people who do not code.
Chrome books are acceptable at the 200 dollar price point (I have one that dual boots archlinux) but they are not replaceable as a main work station unless you never interact with people who use popular software.
Microsoft has Word, Excel, and PowerPoint for Android so it seems like the only think you might be missing out on is Access.
I can't speak to the quality of the Android applications, but the iOS versions are surprisingly well done.
Honestly though, once I bought the thing and tried out Google Docs, I haven't bothered to see if Office works on it. It reads and saves to .docx, and it's nice not having to send or store documents, I just share them.
It sounds like the Pixel phone has sold terribly, and I imagine this will too.
Depending on who you read, the 1-2 million speculated to have sold is good or bad.
Apple sells 80M iPhones in a quarter. Samsung is estimating 20M per quarter for the S8.
The Pixel is insignificant in the larger market.
Without knowing what their intent is, the goodness or badness of it can only be speculation. Which won't stop people from stating either position as fact.
One caveat: You might get some fuckery with complex excell, as google sheets is not quite as fully functioned.
We don't put classified data in the hands of third parties and Google Docs just doesn't support the features our users rely on.
It is nice to take notes or Lotus 1-2-3 like features.
I guess what I can infer from that is there is no way to make a premium build (strong metal body and hinges, keyboard that feels nice, good screen) for a lower price even with an OS that allows you to skimp on more of the internals (slower processor, less ram, less storage).
As for Windows it works great in either a VM or dual boot. I know people that have bought a Mac because they can (legally) run more software than any other computer.
https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux
Edit: Also the unix certification doesn't really mean anything as far as h/w support and free drivers go.
And in dev mode, you get access to a bash shell, full root access, and a spare vt (so you can run xorg, etc). So you can install anything you like.
Rendering your original complaint moot.
macOS is a Unix because it's certified as such by The Open Group. It's built on top of the XNU kernel and is POSIX compliant.
> Rendering your original complaint moot
I had a complaint?
Of course you can. There's no "may" about it. You seem rather unsure of what ChromeOS actually is.
Its just a linux distro. In fact, its much closer to more mainstream linux distro's than more exotic linux variants like android.
It has the linux kernel (duh!), but also glibc, gnu coreutils, bash - the whole shebang. In fact, the only thing (purposely) left out in standard mode is a terminal allowing you to run bash.
In dev-mode, that is given, so you then have terminal access to run bash, and automatic root access.
Nearly all linux pkgs will compile, install and run, "as is". In fact, there's even chromeos-specific package managers which cater to chromeos just as apt caters to debian, rpm to redhat, etc.
And google themselves give you a bash script which restores portage and installs various precompiled ebuilds.
Yes, ChromeOS is effectively a Gentoo Linux build.
Last I checked, gentoo allows you to "directly call functions exposed by the Linux kernel in the standard way" (but I've only been running gentoo since 2002, so what do I know?)
> certified as such by The Open Group
That may have been relevant in the 80's, but for over a generation, linux and/or the gnu suite has been the de-facto standard for what "unix" really is. Which is why most of the official "I've paid the open group their fee so that they can stamp me as official" unix distro's/os's have, in fact, a linux binary emulation layer.
Gnu-linux is basically the lingua-franca of the unix world. The only reason they never got this certification which some think is so important is ... because noone wanted to bother paying the subscription fee back in the 90's.
Thats it.
>> Rendering your original complaint moot > I had a complaint?
Hmm, looking back at this sub-thread, I guess thats more applicable directly to 'camus2'.
You were wading in on that side of the fence, which is why I hung my reply off of your comment. It pretty much applies to both of you.
Basically, he was saying "why bother with a chromebook, mac is 'proper' unix, and so can run lots of unixy stuff, in addition to chrome. Chromebooks can't".
Well, ChromeOS is also a proper unix, and can run lots (and lots, and lots) of unixy stuff, in addition to chrome - with the caveat that you have to put it into dev mode first.
The original Chromebook Pixel and Pixel LS is probably my favorite design of any laptop--the aluminum body was gorgeous, and the rectangular "slab" look that did not taper off was distinctly unique and not Macbook-derivative.
The new one looks like it has a glass back (?) similar to the Pixel phone.
The keyboard is designed without legacy cruft, it is still QWERTY but very much redesigned and not to emulate an Apple - there are none of those weird keys with weird symbols on them in the place of where things like the CTRL key should be. There are also no silly Windows keys.
The screen is 3:2 with a touch screen. Apple do not do that. Sure they do 'retina' and that gets the resolution up to Pixel levels of awesomeness.
The speakers are below the keyboard rather than some tinny things hidden under lots of holes drilled in aluminium. I don't believe you can get better sound on a laptop or tablet than what the original Pixel does.
The colour-bar on the lid is not fruit shaped. It does things too, like an Easter Egg rather than 'obligatory branding'.
The tactile look and feel aspects are definitely an improvement on what Apple offers. The keyboard is much nicer for actual typing. I think the same goes for the trackpad but I use an external mouse in Apple world whereas with the Pixel there is no need to plug stuff like external pointing devices in. This is subjective to a certain extent, some people prefer cheap wine.
Then the final form factor. There is no roundy-roundy-ness. It is not overly branded with fruit-style images. It is square, not round. Even the colour sets the Pixel apart from Apple products.
The Pixel is a start from a blank piece of paper design, it is not a copy of a rival product, it is an example of what can be done and that is not the same idea as 'derivative'.
- It runs native Linux
- Works awesome for every day web development
- 1080p IPS display
- $350 bucks total
If anyone wants to see how to set that up (it requires installing GalliumOS which is a native Linux OS for Chromebooks) and read a full review it's over at https://nickjanetakis.com/blog/transform-a-toshiba-chromeboo....
And, I am guessing, everyone will be getting the only laptop with modern specs and a usable keyboard, right :) ?
Trackpad is a different story (I guess it's average but I suck with trackpads in general because I rarely use it). I feel like it takes me 10 seconds to select text with a trackpad when I could do it in like 1 second with a mouse. Watching me use a trackpad is easily comparable to an ape trying to use hand tools.
I have to say I still use my Pixel everyday and it's held up very well, I can still open it with one finger, it's as fast as the day I got it even after updates, and I use it with anything after I got a USB-C docking station from Plugable (and learned how to run Linux with Crouton). Before I got the docking station I didn't even realize USB-C actually does network connections too. I also learned how much i don't really care for touch screens, they either get dirty really easy or I'm a lot greasier of a person that I ever realized.
My normal Chromebook workflow just couldn't justify the $1K model versus one of the $200-350 "low end" units with a FHD non-touchscreen.
The Dell Chromebook 13 also checks almost all those boxes
- Runs Native Linux (GalliumOS or otherwise. Mainline kernel support was added for all hardware in 4.9)
- Works awesome for every day use. Coding, browsing etc
- 1080P IPS display (touch screen model also available, apparently?)
- Intel Core i5
- 8GB memory
- 8-10 hour battery depending on usage
Is this actually accurate? I'm on the Dell website[1] and all the Chromebook models seem to only have 4GB. Or am I looking at the wrong product?
[1]: http://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-laptops-and-noteboo...
http://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/cty/pdp/spd/chromebook-1...
It's specifically the "Dell 7310" model Chromebook
If you can mod it to run GalliumOS and swap in a bigger SSD I'd say go for it, but I have no complaints with the Toshiba.
Despite being called a "Chromebook", it's really more of an Ultrabook, albeit one with slightly less refinement than a MacBook. However, it's still a pretty sturdy machine and fills the role of a travel ultrabook pretty well. The screen's form factor and the random-shitty-key-free keyboard were honestly the two biggest selling factors for me, and I'm quite enjoying them both. It's much more convenient to code on than any other laptop of its size I've used, thanks to the screen's unusual aspect ratio and high DPI.
The biggest things I don't like about it are all about refinement; scrolling isn't as nice as two-finger scrolling on a Mac, you can accidentally hit the power button and suspend-to-disk the machine if you don't forget to configure your machine to disable to power button after boot, keyboard doens't have a "Fn" key, so you can't use the multimedia keys and the F-keys without some software jiggery-pokery... and just small bits like that. Most of these are complete non-issues if you intend on using ChromeOS... but I have absolutely no desire to turn my PCs into the same kind of walled gardens that we have in the mobile space.
When you're getting old
...
Pixelbook
Pixels of your mama
Taken by your papa a long time ago
...
A pixel of you
in your birthday suit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7encWb7lNQ
I don't like it either, but I'm pretty sure they're not just doing it to be a jerk.
Looks like you answered your own question..
Xiaomi Notebook Air 12.5 has two M.2 slots. But still a soldered RAM.
I've pretty much given up on using it. I liked to use it for ssh over to my real computer (over wifi) to get work done; but this was always noticeably laggy. Trying to use basic tools on it (zoom, slack) is painfully slow - and if you run two bandwidth-hungry things at once, forget it. I have to jump through hoops to get a decent shell for ssh that Just Works - which sorta means it doesn't Just Work after all. Running anything heavier than the shell is slow.
I don't know the specs on the one, but I think I'm done with ARM on anything but phones. At least when them, I don't have any expectation of good performance from applications/sites to begin with.
So if something goes wrong with machine 1 day after your warranty runs out, you're probably SoL. Apparently replacing the battery isn't too difficult, but, other than that, you don't have a lot of options. That's okay for a $300 laptop. But I don't think it's acceptable for a $1,200 one.
https://9to5google.com/2016/12/09/google-pixel-screen-peelin...
You're pretty SoL when it's brand new too, evidently.
In the UK I would have gone to the local Trading Standards Office. Seems all people in the US can do is complain on websites and hope someone online-famous enough takes up their cause.
Some aspects of the American right-wing like making these very extreme claims, presumably on the basis that some people won't bother to check. Another even more implausible one is that America is the most-taxed country; this simply isn't even vaguely true no matter what way you look at it.
Yes. The same companies also fight right to repair laws. It's frequently illegal to repair the broken thing yourself.
What followed was 4 weeks of calls to Google support. Each time they promised they would reach out to the "shipping partner" and get it sorted. I was also receiving emails threatening to charge me the full cost of the replacement device because I hadn't sent in the broken tablet yet.
Eventually the package got delivered... back to the Google warehouse. Google wasn't aware of this until I called them up - their system assumed it had been delivered to my house. Another promise to fix the situation - and this time they managed to actually get a package to my house. Only it was a Pixel C Keyboard, not a tablet.
Another call, another promise. It's been over a week now and the latest package has not yet been shipped, it's stuck in the order confirmed state.
So, 6 weeks later, still no replacement. Luckily the tablet is mostly for entertainment, I personally plan to never rely on Google for anything important like making a living.
Especially as they've moved into hardware. Gotta get that right.
Replaced a 2013 Moto X that stopped receiving updates well before the 2 year mark, despite being bought when Google owned Moto and was promising timely and continuing updates.
I don't take anything from Google after Google Docs (now Drive, whatever) seriously. Well yeah, the self-driving cars, maybe... but that's not a released product yet, anyway. Which simply saves me the effort, for now, of considering how Google will flush that tech, if and when.
I bought a Chromebook (forget which one) direct from Google. It was DOA, wouldn't even turn on. So I went through the whole return process and a few weeks later I got a replacement (which had some issues of it's own, but that's another story).
After using it for a few days I realized I wasn't happy with it so I decided to return it. No problem, I thought, they have a 30 day return policy.
Except the 30 days started counting from the day my original broken one was shipped. Even though I wasn't in possession of a working device for the vast majority of that time.
I did manage to get someone on the phone but he was inflexible on the written policy and steadfastly refused to escalate the call. After arguing for about an hour I finally gave up.
I got one of those crazy HP 13 chromebooks, a Pixel-level device that at the time a few months ago was really the only available option more recent than the Pixel. I ended up finding it on Woot for $520, instead of nearly a grand.
It has the high res display, charges over USB-C so I can use the same charger for my laptop, chromebook, phone, and Fiance's laptop. The device is nice.
The OpenVPN was not TOO bad to set up, but you seem to only be able to have one VPN active at a time. So I can connect to either the office OR the data center OR my personal network, where my laptop can connect to all of them.
The SSH works great, but doesn't have an SSH agent so copying from one remote machine to another doesn't really work. It looks like there is some agent option but I haven't gotten that working. One nice feature of the SSH program is that it can map the remote system as a local Chromebook drive, so I can drag and drop downloaded files when I need to.
For programming I'm looking at Cloud9, which I've played with in the past but never seriously. Probably will just end up SSHing to a box and running vim, I do very little development.
For running Ansible sysadmin tasks, I'm either going to have to go into my desktop and set up an SSH agent to handle the connections to all the other hosts, or use Rundeck once I've committed and pushed the Ansible changes.
So, 90% of what I NEED a laptop for at home (something broke at work, working on personal servers/network), the Chromebook will do, though not quite as nicely as a laptop. Also, I'm using Enpass for passwords, and on the Chromebook I'm using the Android app, which kind of sucks compared to the Linux app version.
The comparison is that around the same time I got a Lenovo T470s running Linux. Also has high res display, also is tiny. It has something weird going on with the mouse buttons where after a suspend they sometimes "stick".
The Chromebook is less expensive, though not really disposable. The $250 chromebook I tried really kind of sucked.
Apple style price jacking for storage; $1199-128GB, $1399-256GB, $1749-512.
I don't see this hardware line going anywhere either. I won't be surprised if the pen requires charging like Crapple. Samsung has better offering with Plus/Pro at less than half the price.
Why did Google let the guy who rekt Moto run Pixel and Nexus into the ground? This is terrible.
That said, I would (err) guess that the more expensive versions also have more RAM and bigger CPU's.
We'll see when the actual models are trotted out ...
So we don't know if these models also have increasing ram, or more powerful cpu's, in addition to the extra on-board storage.
Until we get the full specs of all the models.
Which is why ascribing the price increases solely to the increased storage size is, well, silly.
If you have these "widely available" specs showing what exactly is different across the 3 models, then spill the beans. Otherwise ...