As someone who has major "on" and "off" period swings of productivity due to depression, this list is pretty on the mark.
One thing I would add, which I've seen around here and other places, is the "no zero days" rule. Do at least one thing everyday to work towards your goal. Not only does this help instill discipline, it helps you prevent the snowball effect of having a bad day.
"No zero days" is a general lifestyle principle I am so sold on that I believe it should promoted to everyone to the degree where signal fatigue becomes a concern.
I agree about the "no zero days" rule. The thing is to establish a habit and it will become natural. It's almost like you'll close off to outside input when you follow your habits.
Even if it's not directly related to depression I highly recommend "The Power of Habit".
Establishing habits I in advance know is good for me helped my when I go through my unproductive and depressed periods. Focus on establishing one habit and doing it every day. When you've gone 21 days straight start with a new habit.
I absolutely need zero days rougly ever 8-10 days of full-time brain work. Nothing recuperates my fried circuits better than the occasional single day with absolutely no agenda and not even the tiniest of goals, the rare day of anything goes, nothing must. Motivation drive and interest comes back so swiftly and with such vengeance on the next morning, I doubt there's anything that remotely compares.
Guess that's what this whole "weekend" notion was all about in the first place! =)
Well, the comment about no zero days was in the context of trying to remain productive while depressed, not how to avoid burnout during periods of intense productivity. Do you agree context matters?
No zero days is such good advice. Even a small, but concrete, goal to accomplish every day makes a huge difference. It requires self-compassion to set appropriate goals that match what we're capable of in the middle of a low period though.
I am 35M terribly heartbroken after my most important relationship for which I had great hopes, ended in a complete disaster almost 10 months ago. Person I loved the most, cheated one, shitted on me, got engaged to guy, sent me pictures of her/dude + wedding band on OUR anniversary day, told me that she will name a dog after child we were planning to have, got dumped in 6 months, because he didn't want to have her 10 YO son and came back without apologies, and when I refused to take her back, she went to Switzerland police and got restraining order against me ... just to shit on me more. So, I am banned from entering Switzerland.(I live in US)
To be honest, I followed a lot of things on this list, but it still doesn't help. To this day, my productivity is shit. Somehow, I accomplish things being asked of me, but I feel like empty shell of former me walking around.
Have to admit, alcohol helps me a lot.
So you could pair with someone who will drive you around for a while. It could be a friend or someone you hire. Esp. important if you're a freelancer...
OP here. It helps to kill emotions, they become distant background noise while alcohol is effective.
After a while, you have to keep-up with intake, in order to be in this state all the time.
I went through this at the same time as experiencing a major business failure. It sucked, and honestly 14 months later it still sucks but it does get better with time. Very very slowly, but it does. Be careful about creating a chemical dependency, it was weed for me, as that actually prolongs the recovery. I think these things help us in the early days, but eventually they block you from processing the feelings you have to process. Stay in there, it will get better.
Thank you for your kind words. Hopefully, it will get better.
One thing that kills me, is that I am 35 and I have to deal with this shit during most productive years of my life and I can't fix them.
I'm 37, so I know that feeling well. There's a sense that others are moving on with their lives, both professionally and personally (eg getting married, having kids) but you are stuck and not going anywhere. Honestly, I'm not through this and still feel much of this, but through therepy I've realized that this keeping up with others isn't a helpful thing. Plenty of people are late bloomers (here's an example, obviously less inspiring now than it used to be). https://500hats.com/late-bloomer-not-a-loser-i-hope-ac0ec49a... For me personally I've realized this period is one of intense personal growth and it's brought up lots of issues from my past patterns that I hadn't dealt with but needed to. I'm confident that now I'm better placed for success both at work and at home, though I still need time to heal and rebuild myself inside before that happens and that's a process that just takes time.
Also I fucking hated people when they said 'it just takes time' because it makes the situation seem so hopeless when you are hurting today. It is true though, and there will be ups and downs along the way.
Wow, we have a club. A similar thing happened to me a year ago; not as dramatic as your story, but my girlfriend left me a few weeks before I was going to propose to her (she never really did explain why). The relationship felt so perfect from the beginning that I never even considered the possibility that we wouldn't get married. I was caught completely by surprise. I'm 37 now, and it took 15 years of dating to meet someone I had no reservations about spending the rest of my life with, so it's easy to convince myself that I lost my only shot at happiness. I also moved around a lot over the last 10 years so I don't have any friends now. The last 12 months have felt like an eternity. There are only two things keeping me alive right now: one, my dogs make me feel like I'm not completely alone; and two, I started dumping all of my energy into skill training, and I'm getting so much better at everything I enjoy doing. I tried dating a few months ago but it was just a string of terrible experiences, so I'm in full hermit mode now.
I've put my full focus on trying to develope different skills after being used by someone. I'm much better off spending my time on me rather than anyone who doesn't appreciate it. The way I figure, if someone appreciates me enough to be around me, its their choice to do that. In the meantime, there's absolutely nothing wrong with being alone. I've learned to enjoy the solitude while I have it.
I am sorry this is happening to you as well.
My last 10 months also have felt like an eternity.
It also took me many years of finding someone I felt comfortable being with and having a family. In our age bracket loosing someone is extremely hard, especially when you have family plans on the table. It came to me as a surprise that she had this dark side. Just one day, out of blue, entirely different person starts sending me text messages filled with hatred, rage and every line is soul-crushing. She felt no remorse and was pro-actively doing it, even when I have asked to stop, because my heart was in pain [have minor heart problem]. When she told me that she is taking out IUD and planning to have kids with "him" and listed names for kids they already picked, I went into shock-mode for a week. She basically used her new engagement/relationship as a tool to destroy me for her own pleasure. Karma is a bitch and her engagement collapsed in less than 6 months.
I really can't do/study anything as of this moment. I tried doing CMU Advance Database Course, printed out a lot of research articles and it feels like I am staring at the screen/paper.
Dating is hard as well. I registered on match.com the other week, but all the women look very unattractive, even a very-very attractive ones. (I was genuinely surprised by the number of single 30-40 YO women, many of them are divorced and have kids.)
Geez, that sounds seriously traumatic. You might benefit from a couple of months of therapy if you haven't already tried it. Sometimes you just need someone to listen. Maybe you would have more luck doing something creative instead of mentally taxing software development. I started drawing again and it has been really relaxing. It's nice to just zone out and listen to music while I sketch. I hope you can find something that helps.
Run as far as you can from the atttractive ones. Good looks are a crutch. They let people slide by without ever developing character.
Get an ok or ugly one. They aren’t in as high demand so less likely they will leave you. More importantly the benefit of a hot wife is far less than that detriment of her destroying you.
I grew up with this belief, but to be honest reality, if anything, seems the opposite. On average, the very attractive people were also nice and... stable, often frustratingly so. And most of the nastiest, unstable people I've met were often on the unattractive end of the spectrum. I've also recall reading research that came to a similar conclusion.
And when you think about it, it actually makes sense. Sure, attractive people have it easier in a lot of ways, and the 'bubble' is a real thing. So perhaps, maybe, there's some correlation between attraction and competence or work ethic or whatnot.
But I'd argue that being bullied, ignored, ostracized, and so on, is a much more likely source of being 'terrible', or unstable, or unpleasant than being coddled a bit more than others.
That said I would argue that the 'safest' person to date, if you're going to account for looks, is the average-looking person who feels comfortable with being average-looking. Ideally about as average as oneself.
I'm going through the same thing, more or less, at 39. On top of that I haven't accomplished what I expected to and see people much younger than myself do.
It's very hard and I have "started over" so many times that the energy that you get from that is starting to wear off which is almost more scary. I am starting to feel that I really need some sort of lucky break from the universe or I will never move on. Which is scary because I am not very spiritual and I don't really believe that is likely to happen. But I carry on because I wouldn't know what else to do anyway.
Have you tried meditation? I can't promise it would help, but my own experience makes me believe it's a least worth a try. If interested, I would suggest finding one simple source (don't buy an expensive course or anything) to learn from and then practice meditation for a few minutes each day. If it helps, good, if not then stop wasting time on it.
If it's any consolation it sounds like your ex has a personality disorder with sadistic traits. It is unlikely she will ever make anyone happy, quite the opposite.
She has traits of [Borderline?] Personality Disorder, but I found out about BPD after whole thing went down in flames and I started doing research.
She is 35. Attractive. Abused childhood, absent mother that went around banging man and abusive stepfather, father left when she was 2. She had 3 marriages that collapsed, numerous engagements that probably fell as well, and shit-load of relationships that are short-lived(6m-1y). And of course, all men were terrible. On top, she has eating disorder and thin as rail.
Entire ordeal sounds like some evil plot to destroy me. My older friends, who went through divorces, were shocked and said this by far nastiest break-up they heard about.
It's not uncommon for someone with BPD. It only gets worse over time unless the person makes a concerted effort to work with a trained specialist to manage the symptoms, and most don't. You are neither the first nor last to have a marriage fall apart as a result of BPD. It's fucked up, it's horrible, but you will survive it. Eventually you'll have days where you don't even think about it.
That said, I highly recommend you speak to a therapist. There are things you are doing to attract these personalities and it's important to recognize it so you don't find yourself in the same situation in the future.
It won’t make you feel any better, but if this is what this woman is like you got incredibly lucky. Imagine if you had had a child with this woman - you would be stuck dealing with her forever.
While alcohol can help in the short term, you should be wary of it long term. If possible, the best solution is a mid-term geographic move. Just getting out of the environment tied to your memories and the emotions will seem less hurtful.
Short r.d. laing video on people getting out of their depressions/predicaments / just being OK again. I read his books (divided self is my favorite) after learning about him, they did a lot to my perspective on things https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKOxp2q2lss
Sounds like she's sadistically tormenting you... awful. do all you can to put distance between you and her.
and do anything at all that helps you feel OK, even if it's just whistling a tune. Just so you don't feel get snared in guilt, or rumination, as if there were an external expectation that you should feel like "it's my responsibility to remember that I have all these reasons that justify my misery".
Don't feel bad about not knowing that your fantasy would become a nightmare. There was no way you would have known.
But make sure to still have fantasies, though of course now for a very different future. Your future was not cursed just because she destroyed your relationship (and fantasies of its future).
Sure, our fantasies may merely be imaginary. But people crucially depend upon their fantasies nonetheless. They are the only way many of us attain a feeling that we have a real connection with the real world, and things feel better when you release old ones that are no longer viable, and find new ones, too.
as for finding new fantasies for meaning, media (like movies, books, TV shows, music, etc.) aren't all that bad for letting you 'uncover' the covers on top of your own desires, when the story resonates with you strongly.
Very relatable, and I'm sorry you were subjected to such abuse. Becoming heavily invested in a relationship only to have it turn toxic is really nightmarish. It's natural to numb the pain with alcohol or any of the many alternatives, but damaging yourself over the long term is actually a way for the toxic person to keep hurting you at zero cost to themselves.
Get a dog of your own - not to spite your ex though. You'll have to invest a lot of effort in a dog but you'll be rewarded with loyalty and improved sensitivity and intuition. Not a dog person? Neither was I until stumbled across a starving mangy animal that turned out to be the best friend I've ever had. Shelters are full of dogs that have been betrayed and abandoned. Working breeds (on the larger side) are more even-tempered, intelligent, and loyal which is exactly what's missing in your life right now. I'd suggest an adult rather than a puppy if you haven't had one before, as you'll make a lot of mistakes in the first year.
Man you are so lucky her true colors showed before you had a kid together!!! You will find someone else, someone better who will love you for you and just want to be with you.
I'm really sorry to hear that. 10 months is a long time, but it's not long for pain like this. If you take the wait-it-out approach, it will probably be more like 7 years.
I am certainly stating the callous obvious but...she sounds terrible and you are lucky to have gotten out.
And I know the lingering stomach-churning attachment you describe. All too well : (
My hope is that when that (chemical?) fixation subsides you'll have a huge example of why she isn't a good partner that your rational, non-animal mind to latch onto.
That's terrible, and I'm sorry you had to go through all that. My recommendation is that you take your life back, and refuse to allow what she did to you to harm you any more. There's life after this, and come hell or high water, you will get it.
Such behaviours of this individual may be indicative of NPD (narcissistic personality disorder). Do some research on the topic.. sometimes it helps to find possible explanations when damage has been inflicted by destructive individuals. I wish you all the best.
I have heard of stories like yours. Its sad. Cannot you counter sue the lady??? you have proof of being in a relationship and the pics she sent you on your anniversary. You should not let idiots screw you over like this.
I'm sorry you're going through this. No one understands any of it unless they experienced it themselves, and it's normal for friends not to really get it at first.
It gets better though. To the point where eventually you'll look back and wonder how the hell you gave this person even a moment of your life. But time alone won't fix it.
It's hard at first, but try to go easy on the alcohol, even when the pain seems unbearable. "You got to feel it to heal it." Don't know where this came from originally, and it sounds hokey, but it's so true.
Find a good therapist, ideally one familiar with the devastation that Cluster B personality disorders cause, but NOT someone that treats them. This is super important. There are a surprising number of PD apologists and therapists who suffer from a PD themselves out there. Find someone that recognizes the abuse you suffered and is supportive and encouraging.
And finally, cut this emotional vampire out of your life completely. 100% no contact. Every letter, email, voice mail, text, etc. straight to the trash. You will never, ever, ever get closure from her. The fantasy you have of that moment when she realizes that she was wrong and that you truly loved her, that she threw away the best relationship she'll ever have, where she tells you what she was thinking when she did all of these things, and she finally hears what you've been saying in a million different ways as things started to unravel...it's truly a fantasy, just like the relationship, and just like she was. She is a young child in the body of an adult. She has nothing to offer that can help you to heal. That's got to come from inside you.
And while you're working through all the emotional shit from your ex, take some time to consider other people in your life. People who wind up in abusive relationships usually have an issue with boundaries and this attracts others just as fucked up as the first PD individual that caused all this turmoil in the first place. Think about how others make you feel and trust your gut. If you feel on edge around someone all the time, listen to this feeling.
Good luck, man. You can totally do this. Sending positive thoughts your way :)
Here is what helped for me. I was at the receiving end of a divorce, from a (in my opinion) nice family with 3 kids. It was really hard on me, since I really loved my ex, and I loved my family.
But I came to realize that the woman I love is in my heart only, and doesn't exist in the real word. My real world ex is cold hearthed, chose to dump her own family. The woman in my heart was really nice. But realize that she doesn't exist.
So maybe if you try to see the woman in your heart as separate from the real world one (which seems to be some psychotic bitch), you can move a step further away.
I'm sure the woman in your hearth wouldn't do all the things that your ex is doing.
In grand scheme of things, nothing terrible have happened to me. I didn't move to another country, we don't have kids (imagine having kids and getting being banned from entering country where they live) or house, no costly divorce. My psyche is badly damaged, that is true. You have lost a lot more than I did.
Slowly but surely, I am coming to the same conclusion: she is artificially constructed person in my mind/heart and this image of her, unfortunately does not exist in the real world. Person I loved, would never tell me, that she will name a dog after the child we were planning to have.
Lots of strength to you man. The world can be a shitty place sometimes. But there are always worse things that can happen.
Try to stay away from the bottle, and build up your life with the things you do have. Everything is temporary anyway, so enjoy the nice moments you have.
Some of what I've written here might seem to be the "It's not so bad..." sort of stupidity that abounds. ("It's not so bad, you don't live in a third world country. That's worse than everything you've experienced!") Nothing I've written here is intended that way, and I've re-written it to try and avoid that impression, so please don't read it like that.
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What she did to you was abuse. The sooner you understand that, the sooner you can start healing. I don't give a damn about what happened in her life that caused it, because the important thing is that you understand that you were abused.
I think you already do, although maybe not in as many words.
She deliberately destroyed your relationship in the most vindictive and painful way she could. Everything you've mentioned here appears designed to cause you as much pain as possible - and the fact that you're feeling this strongly (or poorly) means she's won this round. I wouldn't have fared any better in your place.
The game isn't over yet, and this round is going to take a lot longer than the first. You've got some win conditions you need to satisfy if you want to come out of this in good shape:
Get help from a suitable abuse counselor. This is the most important thing you can do, because it leads into the rest of your life. Do me a favor, and if you don't find one tonight, find one tomorrow. Don't even think about it, just do it.
Don't allow alcohol (or other drugs) to be your vent. This might sound silly, but take up a hobby well outside your comfort zone. Perhaps painting, singing, ballroom dance, fencing, or sculpting. The more friendly people you can be around, the better off you'll be. Please stay away from alcohol, it's not a crutch and won't help. Go and chat with AA, if you find that you can't. The people at those meetings will be able to support you through that.
Start to give a damn about yourself. Not everyone is out to betray you and hurt you, but this is something you'll have to relearn. Nobody who understands will hold it against you. I wouldn't.
You've been somewhat lucky, believe it or not, in that this happened before you ended up married and with a baby. Don't doubt that I'm horrified by her vindictive actions, or how selfish she was. I've seen first hand what happens when someone lived a similar hell, but got married anyway. I watched my father grow old as he was unable get on with his life after a similar sort of betrayal.
But this is about you. What happened to you was unfair, and a terrible trauma, no doubt about that. Right now please do yourself, your family and friends, your colleagues, and your future wife a favor: get counseling.
Hey man, this is really crazy. You may or may not know this already, but the only thing that really works is just getting involved in a new relationship. Can be amazing or just a thing for 1- month but do it, and also do all the things that go with it - romantic dates, however you perceive them etc. Just don't talk about your ex at all and really the very first more or less successful relationship will wash it all aqay
Seeing a professional is not an all-in-one solution. Often small tricks like that mean the difference between having something done and not having it done.
Medication is moderately effective. (It's more effective for severe depression. It seems to be less effective for less severe depression.)
The gold standard talking therapy - cognitive behaviour therapy - is also moderately effective. England is running a huge uncontrolled experiment, and their numbers are available here: http://www.content.digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB23831
> This statistical release makes available the most recent Improving Access to Psychological Therapies (IAPT) monthly and quarterly data, including activity, waiting times, and outcomes such as recovery.
> IAPT is run by the NHS in England and offers NICE-approved therapies for treating people with depression or anxiety.
> Key facts
> In January 2017 there were:
> • 126,297 new referrals
> • 85,001 referrals entered treatment
> • 45,897 referrals finished a course of treatment, of which:
> • 90.2 per cent waited less than 6 weeks and 98.7 per cent waited less than 18 weeks to enter treatment
> • 42,729 started treatment at caseness, with 50.1 per cent moving to recovery
Depression is likely to be an umbrella term covering different forms of illness. "Actually depressed" will include people who have reactive depression. It will also include people with depression that responds well to lifestyle changes, but not so well to medical intervention.
In my experience, "professionals" are incredibly bad at treating depression. They can treat some of the symptoms with an efficacy rate slightly higher than placebo, and with high remission rates, but are pretty much completely useless outside of that.
If I had to guess why, it's because we don't have a good model for what depression really is and why it happens.
As a relatively young entrepreneur that fell in love a year ago, and then had the relationship fall apart a few months ago, I found falling in and out of love to destroy my productivity.
I was in a multi month rut that I only crawled out of through therapy and understanding how to actually care about myself.
As much as I know that I'd be better at handling the situation after having experience now, the sheer awfulness of having to run a business while feeling heartbroken turns me off from wanting another relationship. I guess I understand now why so many entrepreneurs I know have messy love lives.
It's not so much that you're not productive when depressed, as the awareness that achievement in other spheres of activity are not actually all that satisfying absent a nurturing relationship - also a problem for many lottery winners who find themselves trying and failing to consume happiness.
I'm sorry that happened but you shouldn't treat it as an insurmountable problem. If you're just 20, your body isn't even completely done growing and you're also relatively inexperienced in dealing with intense emotions. You'll always bear the scars of the pain you felt from this relationship breaking up, and have regrets about whatever parts of it were caused by you, but you can and will heal. Being willing to accept help through therapy and reassess yourself means you're already a long way towards that.
Be careful of the hesitancy to get into another relationship - a natural doubt, but one that can stiffen into a 'reaction-formation' is taken too far. It's certainly tempting (especially when you're younger) to just date casually for social and sexual companionship, but if you systematically avoid relationships then undertaking and sustaining new ones will be more difficult, and as you get older the frustrations and loneliness that can result will weigh increasingly heavy and result in bitterness.
It may help to think of relating to others as a skill to be developed and continuously improved rather than as an achievement to be unlocked (which is way overstressed in media and marketing). A pet animal can help a lot with that. The obligations involved impose a sort of emotional discipline on you, but the rewards are unbounded as animals are generous with their affections. If you end up with a dog it will also improve your social life - people are well-disposed to the owner of a happy dog, and it also makes small talk much easier.
Here's a suggestion not often mentioned, volunteering.
Depression is an extremely narcissistic condition, being stuck in your mind with countless loops of thoughts about you that are unrealistically negative.
Volunteering can put a little crack in that.
Of course if you're depressed to the point where leaving the bed isn't an option, that suggestion is moot.
I guess you have never had depression then. This is the kind of comment that only makes depressed people feel worse. It's like saying to a depressed person, come on just cheer up. Criticism or kicking someone when they are down with depression like you just did is unwarranted, mean and dangerous.
I don't think that was costcopizza's intention. As someone who has struggled with severe depression for a long time, I can attest to his suggestion being helpful. It can be incredibly difficult to do, but obligating myself to various volunteer opportunities (usually by making the commitment during rather well feeling day/moment/episode) has helped immensely. For me it helps to take my mind off my own problems, and even if only temporary, it's usually helpful.
After seeing the reactions to his comment, I felt it would be helpful to emphasize both: the possible benifits of his suggestion, and that I don't think he intended to be critical of depressed people or kick them while they're down.
By calling depression "a narcissistic condition", many people seemed to be viewing it that way.
I said depression is narcissistic, not those with depression. That's a damn big distinction.
In fact I am diagnosed with depression myself, have had suicidal ideation, and still relapse.
When I look back at my darkest times I think volunteering kept me alive. I don't know whats harmful about suggesting that. The big D saps the life out of you, working with others who have their struggles too gives a closed-off negative feedback looped mind just a hint of perspective.
Everyone's depression is different, which is why I ended my comment with the fact that some people's condition doesn't allow them the luxury to get out of bed.
I think it was a poor word choice, but it makes sense. I believe, when parent said depression is narcissistic, he meant that it causes you to ruminate on your own self worth constantly. Narcissism is typically associated with self aggrandizing, but ultimately what's going on is that the part of your brain that controls your self narrative is overactive. That can just as easily manifest as obsessive worry over your perceived failings and inadequacies.
I didn't read it as selfish or disrespectful, but perhaps false with regards to true depression?
Really don't know much about clinical depression, but heartbreak and mild depression that average people go through can I've found to be lessened by helping others. Probably mainly because it takes your mind off of the fact, and also because you feel fulfilled in the end. Two things that don't happen if you sit at home sulking alone and constantly replaying your past over and over.
I think you should be a lot more careful about throwing around terms like "extremely narcissistic", which both has a technical definition in psychology, and also an enormous amount of emotionally loaded subtext.
I also think you should be a lot more careful about advising people what to do. It comes across as both bossy and judgmental.
> Depression is an extremely narcissistic condition, being stuck in your mind with countless loops of thoughts about you that are unrealistically negative.
I’m sure there’s some appropriate label for this behavior, but “depression” isn’t (I say this as someone who has been diagnosed with chronic episodes of depression).
To cut through any biases, let me relate something analogous from my life, as an alternative to speaking directly about depression itself (while hopefully conveying the same underlying lack of agency in my predicimate).
Two years ago, I started feeling off. Not emotionally, but physically and cognitively. My drive (both platonic and sexual) started diminishing (but nothing catastrophic - at first). I had several labs done at the time to assess my health (basic CBC and various hormones) to keep tabs on what was going on in my body. Things quickly turned bad. Within weeks I found myself shivering and sweating puddles, throbbing pain radiating throughout my body. The lymph nodes located in my groin swelled so much as to not only be palpable, but protruding from under my skin at about the size of ping pong balls, like little mole hills.
The fever went away about a week or two later; however, for months I was incredibly prone to motion sickness and daylight would give me intense headaches. From then - and to this day - I went from being a model of fitness to being a broken run down person. Previously, I had had boundless energy, and I saw beauty in everything - like some wild eyed child experiencing all the little joys of the world for the first time. On top of that, I had a sexual appetite that was of such comically high proportion that my friends would tease me relentlessly.
It’s two years since that fever. My liver enzymes are chronically elevated many, many times outside of the reference range. My testosterone, leutenizing hormone (and several others) have plummeted by 30-40%. Most days my body is stiff, inflamed and I ache from head to toe. I’m often spacey, like I’m mentally walking through a thick fog - cognitively, I’m a shell of my former self. Walking up stairs is often a monumental effort. My sex drive went from being so high that it posed logistical problems, to zero drive - or worse, really - without the drive/desire, sex is really just messy and tiresome.
The doctors I’ve seen agree that I unoquivically have some real health issue, as evident in my labs and many, many follow ups, but no one can tell me why things are wrong, nor how to fix me.
I didn’t choose to be broken. I didn’t choose to lose my sex life. I didn’t choose to be constantly fatigued. I didn’t choose to loose my bouncy energetic personality that I was known for. This is all despite my attitude being solid. I have a great job, an awesome caring girlfriend, a supportive family, I live in a fantastic city (Brooklyn) with tons of awesome stuff going on. And yet I feel emotionally numb (not depressed - as I’ve been told by a professional); I just don’t feel stimulated by the same things I used to. Not that I think any less of those things.
I’d recommend you be a little more careful with your use of the word depression. You can’t reduce it to “whiny self loathing” (though that’s certainly a thing for some people, but again, that’s not what depression means). Some people are, of no fault of their own, unhealthy. For some it may be something that’s easily relatable because it shows up in, say, a scan (e.g. cancer), and for others it might be that they physiologically can not experience the same positive emotions that you would given the same stimulus.
(Typing from phone... sorry if any of this is mistyped or shittily written.)
I think the replies critical of your comment are unfair. In my read, it is not critical of depressed people. To be depressed _is_ to be very self absorbed. It isn't a character flaw, it's a result of the condition.
The advice to make yourself do things can be helpful. Speaking personally, in periods of depression I have left the house less because of pessimism about how good a time it would be, or whether it'd be worthwhile. It's helpful, if you can, to ignore those feelings and make yourself do things, for the simple fact that it's good for you.
Stuff that helped me
- Staying near or staying along with your closest ones
- Sleep and Exercise
- Some ayurvedic pills that is known to relieve stress and help sleep ("Ashwagandha" to be specific. I wont say it is a magic pill, but when I take it , I used to get a deep sleep)
This misses the mark as I see it because it doesn't emphasize the three most important things to helping depression:
Bright light, sleep, and exercise.
Light: get bright light to wake you up, experience bright light during the day (preferably sunlight), if you're having trouble sleeping, disconnect from any screens at least an hour before a scheduled time to sleep. Don't set up yourself in a dark closed-window living environment.
Sleep: ahead of time, schedule times when you should be asleep and awake, always be trying to keep to this schedule. Stay out of the bedroom outside of these hours.
Exercise: whether it's walking around the block, going to the gym, or hiking up a mountain, do what you can to exert yourself every day. It helps with the light and the sleep.
These three things won't fix your problems but they will make everything better even if you can only improve them a little.
I’d just add proper diet... nothing extreme, just enough/not too many calories, and the micronutrients needed. Avoiding caffeine and loads of sugar can help with mood and especially anxiety as well, but nothing matters as much as not starving because you don’t feel hungry.
Neither of you guys have had clinical depression. just because everyone gets the blues sometimes doesn't mean they understand someone with genuine depression. keep your platitudes to yourself.
Keep your assumptions to yourself, especially if you won't the time to add anything to the discussion. The advice I gave is more or less paraphrased from advice I got from a medical professional as well as first and second hand experience. I was very straightforward when I said taking care of yourself is not the ultimate solution, but it does help significantly, and more importantly not taking care of yourself amplifies the condition.
The people I've known who have had the biggest problems with mental illness were the ones who wore their diagnoses like a badge and used these sorts of 'no true Scotsman' arguments to isolate themselves.
To put a finer point on it, if you want evidence behind my "platitudes" mountains of scientific literature can be found reinforcing the benefits of sleep, light, and exercise and their effects on depression.
> To put a finer point on it, if you want evidence behind my "platitudes" mountains of scientific literature can be found reinforcing the benefits of sleep, light, and exercise and their effects on depression.
Let's pick exercise. Here's a cochrane collaboration review:
> That's your "mountain of evidence"? It's moderately better than fuck all?
No, that's the conclusion. There's mountains of evidence indicating it's moderately better than fuck all. And there is, really, if a review of 39 studies reaches this conclusion.
Same goes for other physical factors like sleep, light, diet. They each contribute a bit. As can medication, therapy, healthy relationships.
> The reviewers also note that when only high-quality studies were included, the difference between exercise and no therapy is less conclusive.
People think exercise works. When you test it you find some evidence it works unless you do a good test, and then it doesn't look like it does anything more than doing nothing.
This is important - suicide is a leading cause of death, and people who don't know what they're talking about should stop telling people with a potentially fatal illness to "go for a jog".
What maniac here is suggesting that anyone drop therapy/medication for exercise? What strange world do you live on where people can only choose to do a single thing for depression?
> Our review suggested that exercise might have a moderate-sized effect on depression, but because of the risks of bias in many of the trials, the effect of exercise may only be small. We cannot be certain what type and intensity of exercise may be effective, and the optimum duration and frequency of a programme of exercise. There are few data on whether any benefits persist after exercise has stopped.
My personal takeaway is that based on this review, which is more pessimistic than prior reviews, we have confidence that exercise has a small effect, and if the data were better we might be able to say it had a moderate effect.
Going outside and getting daylight on overcast days is still much, much better than any typical light indoors. If you measure the light in a room vs. outside, rooms are dark caves. Your eyes may say it isn’t dark, but you’ll get next to nothing indoors. This has a big effect on your mood and hormones.
That's good to keep in mind. Some friends and coworkers are big on the 'happy lights' but they (the lights) make me want to pull out my eyeballs. Guess we'll have to get umbrellas and stand in the rain to be happy!
I can say that as a combat vet with under control ptsd I just want to say these are good basic conversation points but I highly encourage people to attempt cognitive emotional behavioral therapy (CEBT/CBT), especially for people who dislike therapists and want to work throught their own shit. Once the science finally made it's way to practice, I have seen many fellow combat vets who responded poorly to other treatments make amazing progress under CBT/CEBT.
Drugs: Fuck that seratonin zombie bullshit! Try smoking some cannabis instead of drinking next time. I personally also have this theory that ayahuasca can cause ego-busting outlook shifts for people with everything from alcoholism to ptsd, but there hasn't been enought science done on the subject yet and I can't speak anecdotally because I haven't been able to afford the trip down to Peru. Other drugs with potential positive effects on ptsd/anxiety/depression are MDMA, peyote, morning glory, and salvia divinorum. Of course do your own research and consult a doc if you intend do any of this.
It's a crime that so many potential medicines are illegal.
That is why I didn't mention mushrooms (psilocybin). There have been far too many long-term side-effect stories for me to consider it, along with similar substances such as LSD.
An essential element to resilience is to have a strong support group, ideally friends, or people who are going through a similar thing.
In that vein - shameless plug:
I've been working on a service (www.campfire.care) to build peer support groups for any focus. Groups of 5-10 people with the same issue meet regularly via video and stay connected via chat.
The idea is that we are fundamentally social creatures, and struggling with a challenge alone is unhealthy. It is not therapy or a replacement for therapy. But peer support can be effective + inexpensive.
And being part of a true peer group can provide a kind of value that professional mental health can't. You can't be friends with you therapist, and their job is not to truly empathize with you.
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[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 186 ms ] threadOne thing I would add, which I've seen around here and other places, is the "no zero days" rule. Do at least one thing everyday to work towards your goal. Not only does this help instill discipline, it helps you prevent the snowball effect of having a bad day.
Even if it's not directly related to depression I highly recommend "The Power of Habit".
Establishing habits I in advance know is good for me helped my when I go through my unproductive and depressed periods. Focus on establishing one habit and doing it every day. When you've gone 21 days straight start with a new habit.
Guess that's what this whole "weekend" notion was all about in the first place! =)
So you could pair with someone who will drive you around for a while. It could be a friend or someone you hire. Esp. important if you're a freelancer...
Helps productivity, or helps not feeling bad?
The amount of alcohol required increases with time, so productivity continues downward at an ever growing pace.
so, so, so much time to make awesome shit. good luck getting through it all. <3
I really can't do/study anything as of this moment. I tried doing CMU Advance Database Course, printed out a lot of research articles and it feels like I am staring at the screen/paper.
Dating is hard as well. I registered on match.com the other week, but all the women look very unattractive, even a very-very attractive ones. (I was genuinely surprised by the number of single 30-40 YO women, many of them are divorced and have kids.)
Get an ok or ugly one. They aren’t in as high demand so less likely they will leave you. More importantly the benefit of a hot wife is far less than that detriment of her destroying you.
And when you think about it, it actually makes sense. Sure, attractive people have it easier in a lot of ways, and the 'bubble' is a real thing. So perhaps, maybe, there's some correlation between attraction and competence or work ethic or whatnot.
But I'd argue that being bullied, ignored, ostracized, and so on, is a much more likely source of being 'terrible', or unstable, or unpleasant than being coddled a bit more than others.
That said I would argue that the 'safest' person to date, if you're going to account for looks, is the average-looking person who feels comfortable with being average-looking. Ideally about as average as oneself.
It's very hard and I have "started over" so many times that the energy that you get from that is starting to wear off which is almost more scary. I am starting to feel that I really need some sort of lucky break from the universe or I will never move on. Which is scary because I am not very spiritual and I don't really believe that is likely to happen. But I carry on because I wouldn't know what else to do anyway.
Entire ordeal sounds like some evil plot to destroy me. My older friends, who went through divorces, were shocked and said this by far nastiest break-up they heard about.
That said, I highly recommend you speak to a therapist. There are things you are doing to attract these personalities and it's important to recognize it so you don't find yourself in the same situation in the future.
Also, read this book immediately: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1442238321
While alcohol can help in the short term, you should be wary of it long term. If possible, the best solution is a mid-term geographic move. Just getting out of the environment tied to your memories and the emotions will seem less hurtful.
Sounds like she's sadistically tormenting you... awful. do all you can to put distance between you and her.
and do anything at all that helps you feel OK, even if it's just whistling a tune. Just so you don't feel get snared in guilt, or rumination, as if there were an external expectation that you should feel like "it's my responsibility to remember that I have all these reasons that justify my misery".
Don't feel bad about not knowing that your fantasy would become a nightmare. There was no way you would have known.
But make sure to still have fantasies, though of course now for a very different future. Your future was not cursed just because she destroyed your relationship (and fantasies of its future).
Sure, our fantasies may merely be imaginary. But people crucially depend upon their fantasies nonetheless. They are the only way many of us attain a feeling that we have a real connection with the real world, and things feel better when you release old ones that are no longer viable, and find new ones, too.
as for finding new fantasies for meaning, media (like movies, books, TV shows, music, etc.) aren't all that bad for letting you 'uncover' the covers on top of your own desires, when the story resonates with you strongly.
Have you seen a therapist? Or have you been talking to anyone in your life about what you've been through?
Get a dog of your own - not to spite your ex though. You'll have to invest a lot of effort in a dog but you'll be rewarded with loyalty and improved sensitivity and intuition. Not a dog person? Neither was I until stumbled across a starving mangy animal that turned out to be the best friend I've ever had. Shelters are full of dogs that have been betrayed and abandoned. Working breeds (on the larger side) are more even-tempered, intelligent, and loyal which is exactly what's missing in your life right now. I'd suggest an adult rather than a puppy if you haven't had one before, as you'll make a lot of mistakes in the first year.
On the plus side, it does get better.
And I know the lingering stomach-churning attachment you describe. All too well : (
My hope is that when that (chemical?) fixation subsides you'll have a huge example of why she isn't a good partner that your rational, non-animal mind to latch onto.
It gets better though. To the point where eventually you'll look back and wonder how the hell you gave this person even a moment of your life. But time alone won't fix it.
It's hard at first, but try to go easy on the alcohol, even when the pain seems unbearable. "You got to feel it to heal it." Don't know where this came from originally, and it sounds hokey, but it's so true.
Find a good therapist, ideally one familiar with the devastation that Cluster B personality disorders cause, but NOT someone that treats them. This is super important. There are a surprising number of PD apologists and therapists who suffer from a PD themselves out there. Find someone that recognizes the abuse you suffered and is supportive and encouraging.
And finally, cut this emotional vampire out of your life completely. 100% no contact. Every letter, email, voice mail, text, etc. straight to the trash. You will never, ever, ever get closure from her. The fantasy you have of that moment when she realizes that she was wrong and that you truly loved her, that she threw away the best relationship she'll ever have, where she tells you what she was thinking when she did all of these things, and she finally hears what you've been saying in a million different ways as things started to unravel...it's truly a fantasy, just like the relationship, and just like she was. She is a young child in the body of an adult. She has nothing to offer that can help you to heal. That's got to come from inside you.
And while you're working through all the emotional shit from your ex, take some time to consider other people in your life. People who wind up in abusive relationships usually have an issue with boundaries and this attracts others just as fucked up as the first PD individual that caused all this turmoil in the first place. Think about how others make you feel and trust your gut. If you feel on edge around someone all the time, listen to this feeling.
Good luck, man. You can totally do this. Sending positive thoughts your way :)
But I came to realize that the woman I love is in my heart only, and doesn't exist in the real word. My real world ex is cold hearthed, chose to dump her own family. The woman in my heart was really nice. But realize that she doesn't exist.
So maybe if you try to see the woman in your heart as separate from the real world one (which seems to be some psychotic bitch), you can move a step further away.
I'm sure the woman in your hearth wouldn't do all the things that your ex is doing.
Try to stay away from the bottle, and build up your life with the things you do have. Everything is temporary anyway, so enjoy the nice moments you have.
---
What she did to you was abuse. The sooner you understand that, the sooner you can start healing. I don't give a damn about what happened in her life that caused it, because the important thing is that you understand that you were abused.
I think you already do, although maybe not in as many words.
She deliberately destroyed your relationship in the most vindictive and painful way she could. Everything you've mentioned here appears designed to cause you as much pain as possible - and the fact that you're feeling this strongly (or poorly) means she's won this round. I wouldn't have fared any better in your place.
The game isn't over yet, and this round is going to take a lot longer than the first. You've got some win conditions you need to satisfy if you want to come out of this in good shape:
Get help from a suitable abuse counselor. This is the most important thing you can do, because it leads into the rest of your life. Do me a favor, and if you don't find one tonight, find one tomorrow. Don't even think about it, just do it.
Don't allow alcohol (or other drugs) to be your vent. This might sound silly, but take up a hobby well outside your comfort zone. Perhaps painting, singing, ballroom dance, fencing, or sculpting. The more friendly people you can be around, the better off you'll be. Please stay away from alcohol, it's not a crutch and won't help. Go and chat with AA, if you find that you can't. The people at those meetings will be able to support you through that.
Start to give a damn about yourself. Not everyone is out to betray you and hurt you, but this is something you'll have to relearn. Nobody who understands will hold it against you. I wouldn't.
You've been somewhat lucky, believe it or not, in that this happened before you ended up married and with a baby. Don't doubt that I'm horrified by her vindictive actions, or how selfish she was. I've seen first hand what happens when someone lived a similar hell, but got married anyway. I watched my father grow old as he was unable get on with his life after a similar sort of betrayal.
But this is about you. What happened to you was unfair, and a terrible trauma, no doubt about that. Right now please do yourself, your family and friends, your colleagues, and your future wife a favor: get counseling.
But sure, if you're just bummed out by life's latest trial, then reach into the standard bag of little tricks.
The gold standard talking therapy - cognitive behaviour therapy - is also moderately effective. England is running a huge uncontrolled experiment, and their numbers are available here: http://www.content.digital.nhs.uk/catalogue/PUB23831
> This statistical release makes available the most recent Improving Access to Psychological Therapies (IAPT) monthly and quarterly data, including activity, waiting times, and outcomes such as recovery.
> IAPT is run by the NHS in England and offers NICE-approved therapies for treating people with depression or anxiety.
> Key facts
> In January 2017 there were:
> • 126,297 new referrals
> • 85,001 referrals entered treatment
> • 45,897 referrals finished a course of treatment, of which:
> • 90.2 per cent waited less than 6 weeks and 98.7 per cent waited less than 18 weeks to enter treatment
> • 42,729 started treatment at caseness, with 50.1 per cent moving to recovery
Depression is likely to be an umbrella term covering different forms of illness. "Actually depressed" will include people who have reactive depression. It will also include people with depression that responds well to lifestyle changes, but not so well to medical intervention.
If I had to guess why, it's because we don't have a good model for what depression really is and why it happens.
I was in a multi month rut that I only crawled out of through therapy and understanding how to actually care about myself.
As much as I know that I'd be better at handling the situation after having experience now, the sheer awfulness of having to run a business while feeling heartbroken turns me off from wanting another relationship. I guess I understand now why so many entrepreneurs I know have messy love lives.
I'm sorry that happened but you shouldn't treat it as an insurmountable problem. If you're just 20, your body isn't even completely done growing and you're also relatively inexperienced in dealing with intense emotions. You'll always bear the scars of the pain you felt from this relationship breaking up, and have regrets about whatever parts of it were caused by you, but you can and will heal. Being willing to accept help through therapy and reassess yourself means you're already a long way towards that.
Be careful of the hesitancy to get into another relationship - a natural doubt, but one that can stiffen into a 'reaction-formation' is taken too far. It's certainly tempting (especially when you're younger) to just date casually for social and sexual companionship, but if you systematically avoid relationships then undertaking and sustaining new ones will be more difficult, and as you get older the frustrations and loneliness that can result will weigh increasingly heavy and result in bitterness.
It may help to think of relating to others as a skill to be developed and continuously improved rather than as an achievement to be unlocked (which is way overstressed in media and marketing). A pet animal can help a lot with that. The obligations involved impose a sort of emotional discipline on you, but the rewards are unbounded as animals are generous with their affections. If you end up with a dog it will also improve your social life - people are well-disposed to the owner of a happy dog, and it also makes small talk much easier.
Depression is an extremely narcissistic condition, being stuck in your mind with countless loops of thoughts about you that are unrealistically negative.
Volunteering can put a little crack in that.
Of course if you're depressed to the point where leaving the bed isn't an option, that suggestion is moot.
Thanks for the reply.
In fact I am diagnosed with depression myself, have had suicidal ideation, and still relapse.
When I look back at my darkest times I think volunteering kept me alive. I don't know whats harmful about suggesting that. The big D saps the life out of you, working with others who have their struggles too gives a closed-off negative feedback looped mind just a hint of perspective.
Everyone's depression is different, which is why I ended my comment with the fact that some people's condition doesn't allow them the luxury to get out of bed.
https://i.imgur.com/8EqmrfF.jpg
If people could follow this advice, they wouldn't need it. :-(
Really don't know much about clinical depression, but heartbreak and mild depression that average people go through can I've found to be lessened by helping others. Probably mainly because it takes your mind off of the fact, and also because you feel fulfilled in the end. Two things that don't happen if you sit at home sulking alone and constantly replaying your past over and over.
I also think you should be a lot more careful about advising people what to do. It comes across as both bossy and judgmental.
I’m sure there’s some appropriate label for this behavior, but “depression” isn’t (I say this as someone who has been diagnosed with chronic episodes of depression).
To cut through any biases, let me relate something analogous from my life, as an alternative to speaking directly about depression itself (while hopefully conveying the same underlying lack of agency in my predicimate).
Two years ago, I started feeling off. Not emotionally, but physically and cognitively. My drive (both platonic and sexual) started diminishing (but nothing catastrophic - at first). I had several labs done at the time to assess my health (basic CBC and various hormones) to keep tabs on what was going on in my body. Things quickly turned bad. Within weeks I found myself shivering and sweating puddles, throbbing pain radiating throughout my body. The lymph nodes located in my groin swelled so much as to not only be palpable, but protruding from under my skin at about the size of ping pong balls, like little mole hills.
The fever went away about a week or two later; however, for months I was incredibly prone to motion sickness and daylight would give me intense headaches. From then - and to this day - I went from being a model of fitness to being a broken run down person. Previously, I had had boundless energy, and I saw beauty in everything - like some wild eyed child experiencing all the little joys of the world for the first time. On top of that, I had a sexual appetite that was of such comically high proportion that my friends would tease me relentlessly.
It’s two years since that fever. My liver enzymes are chronically elevated many, many times outside of the reference range. My testosterone, leutenizing hormone (and several others) have plummeted by 30-40%. Most days my body is stiff, inflamed and I ache from head to toe. I’m often spacey, like I’m mentally walking through a thick fog - cognitively, I’m a shell of my former self. Walking up stairs is often a monumental effort. My sex drive went from being so high that it posed logistical problems, to zero drive - or worse, really - without the drive/desire, sex is really just messy and tiresome.
The doctors I’ve seen agree that I unoquivically have some real health issue, as evident in my labs and many, many follow ups, but no one can tell me why things are wrong, nor how to fix me.
I didn’t choose to be broken. I didn’t choose to lose my sex life. I didn’t choose to be constantly fatigued. I didn’t choose to loose my bouncy energetic personality that I was known for. This is all despite my attitude being solid. I have a great job, an awesome caring girlfriend, a supportive family, I live in a fantastic city (Brooklyn) with tons of awesome stuff going on. And yet I feel emotionally numb (not depressed - as I’ve been told by a professional); I just don’t feel stimulated by the same things I used to. Not that I think any less of those things.
I’d recommend you be a little more careful with your use of the word depression. You can’t reduce it to “whiny self loathing” (though that’s certainly a thing for some people, but again, that’s not what depression means). Some people are, of no fault of their own, unhealthy. For some it may be something that’s easily relatable because it shows up in, say, a scan (e.g. cancer), and for others it might be that they physiologically can not experience the same positive emotions that you would given the same stimulus.
(Typing from phone... sorry if any of this is mistyped or shittily written.)
The advice to make yourself do things can be helpful. Speaking personally, in periods of depression I have left the house less because of pessimism about how good a time it would be, or whether it'd be worthwhile. It's helpful, if you can, to ignore those feelings and make yourself do things, for the simple fact that it's good for you.
As you say, "if you can" is the rub.
That's all.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Bright light, sleep, and exercise.
Light: get bright light to wake you up, experience bright light during the day (preferably sunlight), if you're having trouble sleeping, disconnect from any screens at least an hour before a scheduled time to sleep. Don't set up yourself in a dark closed-window living environment.
Sleep: ahead of time, schedule times when you should be asleep and awake, always be trying to keep to this schedule. Stay out of the bedroom outside of these hours.
Exercise: whether it's walking around the block, going to the gym, or hiking up a mountain, do what you can to exert yourself every day. It helps with the light and the sleep.
These three things won't fix your problems but they will make everything better even if you can only improve them a little.
The people I've known who have had the biggest problems with mental illness were the ones who wore their diagnoses like a badge and used these sorts of 'no true Scotsman' arguments to isolate themselves.
To put a finer point on it, if you want evidence behind my "platitudes" mountains of scientific literature can be found reinforcing the benefits of sleep, light, and exercise and their effects on depression.
Let's pick exercise. Here's a cochrane collaboration review:
http://www.cochrane.org/CD004366/DEPRESSN_exercise-for-depre...
> Exercise is moderately more effective than no therapy for reducing symptoms of depression.
That's your "mountain of evidence"? It's moderately better than fuck all?
No, that's the conclusion. There's mountains of evidence indicating it's moderately better than fuck all. And there is, really, if a review of 39 studies reaches this conclusion.
Same goes for other physical factors like sleep, light, diet. They each contribute a bit. As can medication, therapy, healthy relationships.
> The reviewers also note that when only high-quality studies were included, the difference between exercise and no therapy is less conclusive.
People think exercise works. When you test it you find some evidence it works unless you do a good test, and then it doesn't look like it does anything more than doing nothing.
This is important - suicide is a leading cause of death, and people who don't know what they're talking about should stop telling people with a potentially fatal illness to "go for a jog".
> Our review suggested that exercise might have a moderate-sized effect on depression, but because of the risks of bias in many of the trials, the effect of exercise may only be small. We cannot be certain what type and intensity of exercise may be effective, and the optimum duration and frequency of a programme of exercise. There are few data on whether any benefits persist after exercise has stopped.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD004366...
My personal takeaway is that based on this review, which is more pessimistic than prior reviews, we have confidence that exercise has a small effect, and if the data were better we might be able to say it had a moderate effect.
I'm in the Pacific NW, fall/winter/spring is coming.. :(
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy
Drugs: Fuck that seratonin zombie bullshit! Try smoking some cannabis instead of drinking next time. I personally also have this theory that ayahuasca can cause ego-busting outlook shifts for people with everything from alcoholism to ptsd, but there hasn't been enought science done on the subject yet and I can't speak anecdotally because I haven't been able to afford the trip down to Peru. Other drugs with potential positive effects on ptsd/anxiety/depression are MDMA, peyote, morning glory, and salvia divinorum. Of course do your own research and consult a doc if you intend do any of this.
It's a crime that so many potential medicines are illegal.
I appreciate your general message though.
There's a single clinic offering ketamine for depression. http://www.oxfordhealth.nhs.uk/service_description/ketamine-...
In that vein - shameless plug:
I've been working on a service (www.campfire.care) to build peer support groups for any focus. Groups of 5-10 people with the same issue meet regularly via video and stay connected via chat.
The idea is that we are fundamentally social creatures, and struggling with a challenge alone is unhealthy. It is not therapy or a replacement for therapy. But peer support can be effective + inexpensive.
And being part of a true peer group can provide a kind of value that professional mental health can't. You can't be friends with you therapist, and their job is not to truly empathize with you.
Would love any thoughts / feedback!