> Amazon has so much power over the US retail economy that it imposes its power over all participants.
> If it is going to be a monopoly, it should be regulated like other monopolies. Or perhaps more.
> Amazon has so much market share that its sheer size distorts the market.
> We should not allow a company to have a share over around 10% of any market. If in a certain field a single dominant company is beneficial for society, that means it is a natural monopoly, and should be served by a regulated utility.
And yet no rant on the 6 other companies with larger US sales revenue https://stores.org/stores-top-retailers-2017/. I like that subtle inferred redefinition of "monopoly" as well. Maybe we can just use "decapoly" though. Or how about "rmsnotlikopoly"?
Why would I, as a European, want to buy my groceries from an American company? It's not like the big shopping malls like Walmart or Costco are so appealing. Surely we can manage a suitable groceries network on our own.
Might be for the way American do groceries, and usually in Europe people are way more attracted by local, smaller scale stores and buy food almost exclusively day by day.
So no, something like Costco where you can buy everything at 10x the scale to save some bucks might not be as appealing for the european market, which is more into local, healthy alternatives, despite being more expensive.
source: I lived half my life in America, half in Europe.
I really love and prefer the way grocery shopping is done in Europe, but it's fairly contingent on the ubiquity of those small grocers.
In the US, a much larger / lower population density country, physically getting to a grocery on a daily basis isn't practical.
I don't see this as being about "healthier alternatives" or "saving a few bucks." I can't do European-style grocery shopping in the US /despite/ my preference for it.
You can do it, you just need to live in a city. If you need to drive 15 minutes each way to get to the grocery store, then doing that every day is a huge waste of time.
True. I wanted to say that it's bc europe is more populated in cities vs us, but didn't have anything back it up and wasn't sure it was true - but yeah, it's mostly because of city living, smaller grocers and smaller places with smaller room to store stuff :)
Your comment points to the fact that the globalisation project we've embarked on for close to 70 years is either sick or dying... What does it matter if the company still employs Europeans and supports local economies?
You can employ local workers and stimulate the local economy - the owners of capital still extract profits and take them back home. All else being equal, a locally-owned business is better for the local economy than a foreign-owned business - which is not to say that foreign investment is a bad thing when it brings in more capital.
Well on the flip side, in America we seem to have no problems buying groceries from a European company (Aldi sells many times more groceries here than Amazon does, even counting Whole Foods).
Yup, but the german groceries market is about the fiercest on the planet, price is king and the populace isn't easily wooed by additional service if it comes at a premium. Walmart couldn't compete with neither Aldi nor Rewe or anything in between.
There's an Aldi literally right next door to a Walmart about 5 minutes from me in the US. Anecdotally, there never seem to many cars in the Aldi parking lot while Walmart is usually pretty busy. Personally, I stuck my nose in the Aldi once and pretty much decided after a couple of minutes there wasn't anything in there I'd go to a separate store to buy.
You don’t have to buy from an American company. But you have no moral authority to force someone, in this case the owners of Carrefour, to do what you want them to do with their business. You’re not entitled to someone else’s labor or service. You’re arguing for socialism, and socialism is evil for the reason I mentioned above.
Why wouldn’t we, as Europeans, want the ability to buy groceries from an American company? If they offer better service we gain from that and, if they don’t, we can just ignore them and go about our business as usual.
> "Cheuvreux analysts as saying that dispite these rumours, they still feel a collaboration with Google would be more probable for Carrefour than an acquisition by Amazon."
I wonder why they think that? What could collaboration with Google bring?
Digital is a notorious pain point for Carrefour. Their CDO has been replaced last week by a long time coworker of Alexandre Bompart (newly appointed CEO of Groupe Carrefour).
I'm French, and I can tell you Carrefour is a very famous brand in France. So to me there is no way Amazon will buy it, I just don't see this being accepted by public opinion, and thus by the French government.
I'm French, and that's also the first thing I thought when I read this title. I really don't see this happening, knowing how the French government is anti us tech companies (remember when yahoo wanted to buy Dailymotion?)
I got you, you're right, compared to dailymotion, Carrefour is a national monument and I wouldn't bet a dollar that Amazon will be able to touch one hair of it.
Well, now that I think about it, Arcelor was bought in 2006, despite public hostility.
But really, Carrefour is a big name in France. If Amazon buys it and the government either does nothing or fails to prevent it, the French left-wing will go nuts.
I’m also interested in hearing how willing the French government is to prevent the acquisition of a French private company. I’d think this should be up to the owners of the company in question, but the people of France may disagree with me.
There is a rich legal background surrounding mergers and acquisitions in financial markets, not to mention the antitrust laws.
The French government can even write new laws if need be. France is only theoretically capitalistic, in practice the weight of the government is heavy on companies.
Unless someone big can make a case that it would be building some kind of monopoly, I doubt french people can do anything about it.
Since the competition is fierce in retailing, it would not fly anyway.
If amazon manage to negotiate the acquisition, I don't think it can be easily stopped. Even if my country forbid it for obscure reasons, Europe would probably override the decision.
It's funny reading the reactions from my french co-citizens, like they are talking about selling the Eiffel Tower.
The thing that really worries me, as a EU citizen (Italian), is Amazon cheating on taxes through Luxembourg. If we continue this way, Luxembourg and Ireland will end up stealing all corporate taxes from all of the rest of the EU.
EDIT: I thought it was Ireland, in this case it was Luxembourg.
Are they cheating, or are they using the EU as it is intended to be? I mean sure, they may not be paying any taxes though Ireland doesn't seem to get much of them either.. perhaps its time to change the EU somehow, to prevent this?
They are cheating legally (as opposed to Apple). Yes we should change this, problem is that Ireland and Luxembourg will oppose any changes as they make loads of money from this system.
PS I fixed my comment, I thought it was Ireland but in this case it was Luxembourg.
> For competitors like Ahold Delhaize, it would be another blow
I'm not sure that's a very good example of a competitor. Carrefour is French, Ahold is Dutch. They don't compete in France, nor in the Netherlands. They both have supermarkets in Belgium, though. Furthermore, Carrefour is known for their hypermarkets which are much larger than regular supermarkets.
Delhaize is a major player on the US market via its "food lion" brand (off the top of my head about 2k stores).
Ahold Delhaize merger is rumored to be a failure. There is an on going war between Dutch and Belgian executives. Recently a Dutch has been appointed ceo of the belgian entity, which was not very well received at all.
Ahold Delhaize is a competitor to Carrefour not only in Belgium but also in eastern Europe (but these are still relatively small markets).
Afaik they have no shops in Latin America nor China, where Carrefour has strong positions.
Carrefour is a big chain. About 12,000 stores. About 20x as many stores as Whole Foods. Most of them are convenience stores. That would give Amazon a very visible brick-and-mortar presence in Europe, approaching 7-11 in the US.
A chain of convenience stores is useful to Amazon. They'll all get Amazon Lockers, of course. You'll be able to get everything Amazon sells at those stores, if you just order ahead. They'll probably have same-day delivery to their own stores.
Small scale retail in France is going to take a big hit from this.
> A chain of convenience stores is useful to Amazon. They'll all get Amazon Lockers, of course. You'll be able to get everything Amazon sells at those stores, if you just order ahead.
I don't know how much it costs Amazon but this is already the case. I always get my Amazon products from the Carrefour next door.
Carrefour is a state of crisis both internally (the newly appointed ceo is quoted as having "vowed to clean the mess", several high ranking executives have been shown the door or been effectively demoted) and externally (shares have been tumbling for quite a while).
Anything is possible but, to me, an attempt to raise valuation is the most likely explanation. Sources are always "analysts" who seem to have skin in the game.
68 comments
[ 5139 ms ] story [ 1912 ms ] thread> Amazon has so much power over the US retail economy that it imposes its power over all participants.
> If it is going to be a monopoly, it should be regulated like other monopolies. Or perhaps more.
> Amazon has so much market share that its sheer size distorts the market.
> We should not allow a company to have a share over around 10% of any market. If in a certain field a single dominant company is beneficial for society, that means it is a natural monopoly, and should be served by a regulated utility.
It's also unlikely that a noticeable amount of customers will care, as people generally don't shop groceries based on which corporation owns what.
I guess that's one way of thinking about them. If you haven't, I hope you never have the displeasure of visiting an actual American shopping mall.
source: I lived half my life in America, half in Europe.
In the US, a much larger / lower population density country, physically getting to a grocery on a daily basis isn't practical.
I don't see this as being about "healthier alternatives" or "saving a few bucks." I can't do European-style grocery shopping in the US /despite/ my preference for it.
I wonder why they think that? What could collaboration with Google bring?
ps: that said, I despise large retail stores
And it's good to remember that getting acquired by yahoo has been a death sentence for a few sites.
Do they have a word to say on the issue?
But really, Carrefour is a big name in France. If Amazon buys it and the government either does nothing or fails to prevent it, the French left-wing will go nuts.
The French government can even write new laws if need be. France is only theoretically capitalistic, in practice the weight of the government is heavy on companies.
Since the competition is fierce in retailing, it would not fly anyway.
If amazon manage to negotiate the acquisition, I don't think it can be easily stopped. Even if my country forbid it for obscure reasons, Europe would probably override the decision.
It's funny reading the reactions from my french co-citizens, like they are talking about selling the Eiffel Tower.
EDIT: I thought it was Ireland, in this case it was Luxembourg.
PS I fixed my comment, I thought it was Ireland but in this case it was Luxembourg.
Here: https://pastebin.com/4FAB8Fuy
I'm not sure that's a very good example of a competitor. Carrefour is French, Ahold is Dutch. They don't compete in France, nor in the Netherlands. They both have supermarkets in Belgium, though. Furthermore, Carrefour is known for their hypermarkets which are much larger than regular supermarkets.
Ahold Delhaize merger is rumored to be a failure. There is an on going war between Dutch and Belgian executives. Recently a Dutch has been appointed ceo of the belgian entity, which was not very well received at all.
Ahold Delhaize is a competitor to Carrefour not only in Belgium but also in eastern Europe (but these are still relatively small markets).
Afaik they have no shops in Latin America nor China, where Carrefour has strong positions.
Edit: Google maps finds eleven Carrefour stores in Shenyang alone.
A chain of convenience stores is useful to Amazon. They'll all get Amazon Lockers, of course. You'll be able to get everything Amazon sells at those stores, if you just order ahead. They'll probably have same-day delivery to their own stores.
Small scale retail in France is going to take a big hit from this.
I don't know how much it costs Amazon but this is already the case. I always get my Amazon products from the Carrefour next door.
Anything is possible but, to me, an attempt to raise valuation is the most likely explanation. Sources are always "analysts" who seem to have skin in the game.
On HN, we wait until a thing actually happens. There's no harm in doing so, and then there's substance to discuss.
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