Ask HN: How do I find meaningful work?
I'm sick of working with advertising-based businesses because I believe advertising is convincing people to buy useless shit. I don't want to work in health, because the government and insurance have fucked up the healthcare system, and I don't want to be part of it. I kinda like fin-tech, but it seems at the end of the day about make rich people richer and/or getting poor people to pollute more. I've thought about heading more towards pure research, but I want to know I'm doing something for a good purpose.
I'm also totally sick of the ideological crap at lots of startups. I don't want to have to drink the kool-aid. Neither do I want to work for some large corporate machine.
I want there to be real values behind what I'm working on that I can believe in. Despite claims to contrary, I find the entire business culture rotten to the core. What should I do?
77 comments
[ 2.4 ms ] story [ 144 ms ] threadSince you hate advertising, a not-immediately similar path might be anti-corruption. These guys advertised for help from data scientists a while ago on HN: https://www.occrp.org/
Also Open-EMR, which is a free end-end software for hospitals is also an option. By implementing this software, hospitals save immediately $1 M+ compared to systems like Center or Epic, it’s almost comical. There are lots of statistical packages, so your help could be useful there: www.opem-emr.org
Occrp looks interesting, but it looks working there involves going to Kosovo. Open-emr looks potentially interesting, but I'm not sure how much I care about hospitals being able to make more money. I'm not convinced electronic medical record are actually a good idea.
I see it that way that you can make healthcare more efficient with low risk of fraud (there is no money involved directly here).
2) For your local and particular interest get a list of potential jobs
3) Do a pairwise comparison between first two jobs. For these two jobs and only these two jobs, which you would prefer to do in your current state. Ignore qualifications or everything else, if you were given the choice of starting only one of those two jobs tomorrow, which would you choose.
4) Then do a pairwise comparison between second two jobs
5) Keep doing this for at least 10 minutes
6) Now you have a list of potentially attractive jobs for you.
7) For this list you compiled, do this process again.
8) Then once you've made it through all of those, do it once more.
9) By the third time, you will have chosen some jobs 3 times over other jobs. So you're task now is to look deeply at all of these jobs that won 3 times and try to figure out what is in common between all of them.
10) Once you have some of those clues, go back to step 2 and try searching for more jobs that have those key-words and/or criteria you found in step 9.
What you are doing here is to force some sort of revealed preferences for your self based on currently available jobs. You aren't trying to solve the "what you should do next", you are trying to solve the what interests me enough that I would do it over something else. With enough research you'll have a few more ideas of what roads you should be exploring.
What type of work do you like? What type of business would you like to build?
Fuck it, what’s your feeling on building solutions for people just like you? That’s what I’m looking to do.
I used to say "Nonprofits? They aren't doing anything interesting with tech!!"
One day, my wife convinced me to try searching on Idealist just to see if there were any nonprofits doing anything interested with tech. I feel in love with the very first result, got the job, worked my way up the ranks, and am now Chief Product Officer at GlobalGiving.org and I couldn't be happier.
Looking for a shortlist of orgs that I'd recommend? Try any one of the orgs at https://www.ctosforgood.org
When I retired I was rather bored and felt as if life was not really giving me any challenges. So, I found it in volunteering, including a small non-profit startup.
I'd also add that there may not need for it to be your work, as in gainful employment, that is meaningful. You may be able to fill that outside of work - assuming you have time. Dunno if it will work for you, but I'll add it.
It's nice to be able to give something back. It's uplifting to fill a void for someone else. I suppose, in a way, it may even be a little selfish. I do, after all, sometimes do it because it makes me feel better.
Ah well... Just some potential food for thought.
It's hard to find but it is possible
You'll definitely experience more higher-level-Maslow-pyramid buzz when working for a big mission than for big dollar.
My experience was that this was the case with all commercial jobs I did. Bearing in mind that only the top 10% or so (which by definition we can't all be included in) have a very wide choice of work.
Suggesting that non-profits are a good place to look for meaningful work is nowhere close to claiming that for-profits can never do anything meaningful.
I'd suggest searching (non-profit + meaningful for-profit).
https://80000hours.org/job-board/
I do acknowledge working with non-technie teams is frustrating to start with, but once you bring them to learn the benefits it becomes pleasurable.
Work in health care. Lot of work there building apps that support clinical trials, etc. Probably a lot of ways you could apply your data scientist hat.
Work for a small company that creates a real product or service. That means you might have to look outside of the typical startup world and may lose all the coolness that goes with, but it sounds like you're over all that anyway.
Do your own thing. Training, consulting, etc. I'm sure you have an idea burning in your mind, like we all do.
We want to take all of the advances in psychology and ML, and instead of applying it to the problem of getting people to click on ads, we want to persuade people to have a fun exercise that improves their life.
Email me. adam@freeplay-app.com
I don't mean to threadjack, but what are some examples of this?
Basically, I'd say the TED ideology. Look, tech is amazing, and it can all the solve all the worlds problems. Yet, beneath the veneer it is just propagandizing the power and wealth of 'divine' founders.
I'm also sick of startups talking how they are doing good for the world, when it turns out they are actually serving ads. When you look at the ads, the ads are often dishonest, unethical, and encourage behavior not in the interest of the viewer or broader society.
This can all be compounded by the creation of 'reality distortion fields' by dishonest founders. This can be compounded by the whole game of misrepresenting the value of stock option. Then, this is compounded by the naive belief in stock options. Further, I object cult-like devotion to the startup cult over strong moral values.
It's a real tough challenge to go from strong founding values and vision to then having to promote those values in a way that keeps your business alive. In fact, it's antithetical to the dominant business model of the internet.
My suggestion: focus first on the business model you want to operate with. How do you want to exchange with the world? As a non-profit? As a VC funded startup? A private company bootstrapped on revenue? A large public company? A consultancy? Making royalties on IP? Investing? A small local business?
IMO you'll find more relevant people and opportunities that share your value system this way.
Example: Pivotal Labs is known for it's insistence on "Pair Programming" and touts it as an "extremely beneficial" practice.
Source: Pair Programming Considered Extremely Beneficial => https://content.pivotal.io/blog/pair-programming-considered-...
...and here's one person who left because of that.
> When you pair program, you're effectively joined at the hip with your pair. You can't pair if only one of you is there. This means that you both come into work at the same time, you both take lunch at the same time, you both take breaks at the same time, and you both leave at the same time. The work is so concentrated that you work 8-hour days (which is good). But you can't take time off without affecting your pair.
Source: Why I Don't Like Pair Programming (and Why I Left Pivotal) => http://mwilden.blogspot.com/2009/11/why-i-dont-like-pair-pro...
I can tell you from experience that good pair programming teams exist. They get tremendous benefit from pair programming. These benefits may not be obvious to those who do not want to do pair programming -- even after a month of trying. The same can be said of many, many, many other practices.
At some point, when you are building a team, you have to decide on practices that you are going to follow -- even if those practices are, "Do whatever the heck you like". Imagine if you are working on such a team and everybody is getting along well and is productive. Imagine hiring someone and saying, "Feel free to institute any group wide practices that you want. You may force anyone to do anything you like". Yeah, obviously it won't work
Similarly, imagine working on a team with an established set of practices. Imagine that everyone is getting along well and is productive. Then imagine hiring someone and saying, "Feel free to work however you want. You can ignore any group wide practice that doesn't suit you." It's not nearly as obvious, I suppose, but that's just as disastrous. Everybody then has to work around that person and none of the practices work any more.
So, as you are building your team, you need to hire people who will be willing to work with your practices. If it's a "do whatever the heck you like" team, then you've got to be pretty clear: "We value programmer freedom over group coordination. We are unlikely to value practices that require everyone to work the same way". On the other side of the coin, if you are working in a coordinated manner (and is there anything more coordinated than pair programming???) then you have to be pretty clear, "This is how we work as a team. If you do not like that, then you will be very unlikely to be happy on this team".
Neither one of these scenarios is "ideological crap". It's reality. Both scenarios are realities that some people don't like -- and let's face it: both scenarios are referred to as "crap" by people who don't like it.
So, I get the point that you don't think pair programming is a practice that is worth build a team around. I think that's a thing where reasonable people can differ. But from the perspective of this thread, my best advice is to pick a team where you think you will be happy and successful. If you turn out to make a mistake, then try to find another team. If you go through that experience many times without finding a place where you can be happy -- perhaps you should consider the possibility that external factors are not the driving force in your unhappiness. YMMV.
Eloquently put, but you don't mention where you live (ie. which government this is). Generally people that don't say where they are when asking these kinds of questions are in the USA - a fair assumption, I'm sure, as 5% of the world lives there.
Anyway, consider that 'health' is big - really big - and isn't just the bits you've seen. I'm confident there are some good efforts being made under that banner domestically that may fit your criteria. Further, if 'the government has fucked things up' maybe consider relocating to a place where things aren't quite so regrettable -- lots of (perhaps 'every other) countries have better health systems than the USA. Useful if it's an area you're genuinely interested in but for local government (mis)management.
Have you thought about starting your own business? It doesn't necessarily have to be a startup; lifestyle businesses are just as valid a path. That said, startups do unfortunately require you to drink your own Kool-Aid to a degree. They do not however require you to foist bullshit upon your employees, which most founders unfortunately do anyways.
Of course, founding isn't for everyone. It's hard, and there's a lot less guarantees involved than working for someone else. It may not even be a possibility given your current life situation, I don't know.
2. Make yourself look like a strong candidate on paper.
3. Search for companies that are focused on the causes you care about.
4. Reach out directly to the appropriate individuals at those companies. Don't pay any attention as to whether or not they are hiring.
5. In your approach, briefly mention your qualifications but also your interest in the organization's mission. Mention the latter first. Make it clear to the recipient that your message was written exclusively for this organization.
Anyway, there's a slew of helpful and positive answers here and I wish you luck in making use of them.
Also, my wife works at Engima if you want an intro: https://www.enigma.com/
There are plenty of other non-profits, but they usually don't pay good enough to even cover the rent in SFBA. So IMO it's better to play your own game if you have a plan.
It'll take time to find a company that both exudes the same values as you and is in a domain that you enjoy working with. More often than not you get one but not the other.
Usually what I would do when evaluating a company, is ask if I'd ever want to spend my weekends contracting / part-timing / volunteering for that company. If you have a M-F 9-5 job and are looking forward to the weekend with that company, then it's a good step in the right direction.
Then meet with the team and talk to their employees both while on an interview or if you can get one or more of them out on an informal coffee or meal to talk it would help too. Plenty of times interviews are too official, too rigid and pre-meditated to truly gauge the culture of the company/team.
You might end up jumping around a few times before you find something you like, but the important thing is you find something you like, instead of droning on at a big tech company or startup where you reap the benefits financially but suffer emotionally and psychologically.
Have you considered seeking employment with organizations working in extremely distressed parts of the world, like refugee camps?
I could give you ideas on how you could change people's lives by volunteering to teach at places like http://shhkids.org/ but I won't. What you should do though, is find something where you can cause impact, no matter how small, and then work your way up from there towards something that gives value and happiness to YOUR LIFE.