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Ask HN: How do you keep yourself motivated in "motivation gap"?

32 points by dottedmag ↗ HN
This problem recently hit me: I can cover my bills and necessities working ~1.5 months a year, and I can supply myself with all gadgets and other nice stuff I _want_ working ~3 months a year: I am frugal person, and I live in quite cheap part of the world.

I've built some wealth last years and now I lost all my motivation: it looks like the situation is in permanent libmbo, as it can't become much worse (it is too easy to keep things from falling apart) and it just can't become much better -- it seems impossible to qualitatively change my income level, so really expensive toys feel like in another world: why should you need to work hard 6 years to buy something if you may keep slacking and get the same stuff in 10 years?

Did anyone here fell into this trap? How did you recover?

30 comments

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jacquesm
When I'm like that I tend to turn to learning new skills. It's always interesting, I meet new people because of it and you never know when it comes in handy. Also, it isn't rare that during the learning of a new skill I see a way to improve on things and that might motivate me enough to go and do something about it.
dottedmag
I learn a lot already, and it helped until ~5 years ago, when I started seeing familiar patterns in new stuff (especially one having big "hype count"). I can count new interesting ideas with my fingers on one hand.

Hmm... Execution model of Erlang. Systematical approach to computing in Haskell community. Deployment model of GAE. That's all. The rest is just an rehearsal of old ideas (those mentioned are also rehearsals, but the previous iterations did not get significant traction).

kranner
'New skills' can mean more than just stuff in programming!

To paraphrase Robert Heinlein, learn to "change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure..."

stcredzero
I learn a lot already, and it helped until ~5 years ago, when I started seeing familiar patterns in new stuff

Then you are ready for the next level: see what other gems there are in CS/tech history that are yet undiscovered.

messel
Your facing a psychological self hack. You want something but you can't bring yourself to achieve it because you have enough. Maybe what you desire isn't a strong enough motivator.

Try to find a more potent carrot. "Impact" appears to drive even the most successful people to work even harder.

Or you can find absolute peace in your lack of need.

harscoat
I dare say imho the desire to get laid is a power motivator to get out of this situation... cool chicks like status (and it often come with the finance or at least exciting achievements)
jacquesm
If you think 'cool chicks that like status' are the ones to desire you still have a lot to learn. I know that sounds paternalistic but really, 'cool chicks that like status' are the ones to avoid if my experience is any guide.

Better find a not-so-cool chick that you really love and that really loves you, or a cool one that doesn't care about status.

harscoat
Sure I tend to agree. Still cool chicks does not mean she only likes expensive cars, cool chicks can be a violonist, a girl with taste, who want you to bring her to the Opera or to Paris on a date. Not-so-cool chicks maybe what you want for yourself (comfort trust etc.) but most of us have a reproductive bias: we also want children and inconsciously you want (for them) good genetic material hence... "cool chicks". Just trying to help, no judgement in this.
jacquesm
I think I should rest my case.
gexla
I think you forgot about the part where he mentions he is in a country where he can live so cheap that he only has to work 2 - 3 months out of the year. He likely has all the status he needs for the cool chicks in his neighborhood. ;)
jacquesm
Thread starter is not the same as topic starter.
stcredzero
Better find a not-so-cool chick that you really love and that really loves you, or a cool one that doesn't care about status.

My experience: for the nerdy guy, the beta-male adherent to an intellectual or aesthetic passion, the biggest payoff is to be found through "contrarian investing." My last girlfriend is very, very odd and an extreme wallflower. She also turned out to be one of the most perceptive, moral, and sensible people I know. As a bonus, underneath her very tasteful and modest wardrobe she's also quite the dreamy waif. When we met, she was 25 and I was her first boyfriend.

Another anecdote: my sister living in New York met some guy and dated him for a couple of years. Not only did he turn out to be one of the nicest, level-headed guys I know, but he would be a good casting choice for Clark Kent. He had never had a girlfriend before. My sister met him when he was 27.

Another anecdote: my girlfriend's friend. She's a complete head-turner with excellent taste in clothes, but had never dated anyone until her mid 20's either.

Just as in tech, there are many whose decision-mechanism is to follow the herd. Their discernment is clouded by fear of being wrong and disconnected from true discernment. Be the one who hacks social reality for the unnoticed treasure.

(P.S. In response to the inevitable skepticism: there are lots of things in social reality that distort perceptions. Racism is still a pretty powerful one here in the states.)

javery
It really depends on what your motivation is, if your motivation is just money and you have reached a comfortable level then why try to push yourself more? Enjoy life!

I know that money is only one of my motivations, the other is to build something great to prove that I can do it. Like climbing a mountain or running a marathon, it's not about making tons of money but proving that I can accomplish one of the more difficult things in life (building a wildly successful business). Even if I had all the money I needed I would keep trying to do what I am doing, and eventually hope to do it over and over again.

dottedmag
How do you find the stuff that worth doing? Every time I try to do something I figure out it is already done by somebody else with a great mastership.
javery
My current project competes with Google, AOL, Microsoft, and about 20 other companies... but I think there is a great niche they are under-serving that I am working on targeting.

In existing markets you can almost always improve on the existing technology, target a niche, or offer a lower priced offering. Or go create your own market with a new type of product or service.

I don't think anyone is untouchable nowadays, look at DuckDuckGo taking on Google!

jacquesm
> My current project competes with Google, AOL, Microsoft, and about 20 other companies...

Sounds like you have your work cut out for you then, makes me wonder why you have time to post here ;) With that sort of competition I figure you'll be the most overworked person on the planet by years end!

javery
I'm definitely busy, but its all about who you are targeting. Most web apps now are competing with most of the big companies in some way or another.
Tichy
Spend the money, or get children. Or I guess invest the money in something where you can't get to it on short notice, so that again you have to earn something to cover immediate living expenses.

Of course there should be better ways to overcome the motivation problem, but at least for me, I also have experienced it several times that I only kicked into productive mode when my bank account was nearing zero.

JangoSteve
I'm not sure it's possible to help given the information provided. You're asking how to stay motivated, but you haven't told us what it is that motivated you in the first place. If your only motivation all along was money and gadgets, then perhaps that's the root of the problem.

You live in a cheap part of the world? What about spending some of that money to travel to not-so-cheap parts of the world? My best suggestion would be to take some time off to figure things out. And I mean real time off. Leave town, don't take your computer with you.

Also, given your frugality and the inexpensive standard of living in your part of the world, I'd say your experience is similar to those who have gotten FU money. I'd highly recommend reading this thread: "Ask PG & other successful folks: how did your life change after FU money?" [1] Especially read ttol's comment about mentally preparing yourself and the frame of mind required to handle FU money [2].

[1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1511104

[2] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1511232

dottedmag
I think you nailed it: I was motivated by the need for living decently. Now I climbed out of poverty and feel I have potential for much more, but don't have any particular challenge in mind to tackle, and have no idea how to find one: reached the Esteem step of Maslow's hierarchy of needs and stuck on it :)

PS: thanks for FU money links, very interesting.

ehosca
its simple. donate all of your money to charities. donate all your gadgets to the local Salvation Army. you will soon be motivated.
dottedmag
You know, it's like suggesting someone who got out of ghetto after spending lot of time and work to make it possible to go there again and to try again escaping it. Sure it gives a _lot_ of motivation, but the _wrong_ kind of motivation.
gasull
You're right, donating your money is not a solution. But this gave me an idea: What about trying to earn more money so you can donate this extra money or do something philanthropic with it? Maybe something for your community?
famousactress
Have you tried throwing yourself at a project that's philanthropic? Go do something for other people... I think you'll find it a lot more re-energizing than sorting out how to be excited about keeping the salary-hamster-wheel spinning.
dottedmag
I'm doing lot of work in free software (paid and unpaid, just for fun). Does it count?
gasull
Will recognition motivate you?

If so maybe focus on just one free software project that can give you recognition and where you can make a big difference.

famousactress
It counts if it turns you on.. but I was talking about something socially bigger. Make the world a better place. I dunno. Build a community site for Ugandan refugees, find a non-profit that needs better tools, put together an app for struggling small business owners to find and patronize one-another (patronize definition #2, not #1). It sounded like maybe your motivation has faltered because you've discovered the salary/lifestyle recursion (lifestyle-because-money-because-lifestyle-because-money). Maybe ignoring yourself and your circumstances for a while would help break the cycle and give you some perspective and enthusiasm. It's hard to bust your ass for new iPads indefinitely... maybe knowing that you're lowering the overhead of a non-profit which means more hungry people get fed or clothed would get you excited to work hard again.
joeld42
I wish I had your problem.

But seriously, change your goal. Income is obviously not a good motivator anymore. Looking for a way to do what you used to enjoy doing do competitively can be motivating, or perhaps doing it as a way of artistic expression.

dottedmag
It isn't hard to have this problem :) I am going to move to Prague soon where life is only marginally more expensive than in my current location, and you still may live pretty decent life on 1k$/month.