I've been wondering about buying electric kick scooter for some time now. Bikes can be dangerous where there is no separate infrastructure for them, but scooter you can drive on sidewalk in places that are almost void of pedestrians (this is my case). It's also way easier to take with in store or office. Pity there is no "rent for day" just to try it out.
I'd love to switch my car for electric, but that is still expensive.
I’ve got 1kW bike, it can hit 50kmh, but cruise speed with current config is more of a 35-40kmh.
If you want to be a reasonable road user you need to be able to keep up with cars, so cruise around 50 and go up to 70 kmh to overtake, maintain speed uphill etc.
Basically it’s more of a scooter in a bike format with low weight and manouvrability. Love it!
Edit: I assume downvotes are from people morally insulted of how illegal it is.
Pretty much canonical build nowadays - BBSHD on a cheapest bike (danger) with hydraulic brakes and downtube battery pack (48V, would be nice to go up, 11.6 Ah -- it can't sustain more than ~750W load, hence lower cruise speed), Lekkie Bling Ring - smaller ring for more torque but again, lower top speed.
I'd like to add that having less gears would be nice, currently I have 8, only half are needed.
It's a MTB bike shape, so you always leaning forward. Normal city "omafiets" would be dangerous at those speeds - not enough pressure/grip on front tyre.
Also, I don't have to commute, only use it for fun (ok I did came to do some work to the university library right now).
I'm from Europe, limits on electric assistance here are quite low as far as I know (25km max, no support without pedaling, 250W engine output).
But I agree, my main concern is difference in speed with cars. Worst case I could use electric scooter just for "last mile" and use public transportation. That is something ebike will again have more problems with.
25 might seem low but when I pedal only I go about 22-24 km/h. Going 25 km/h electric only is more than enough. Then you can pedal and go even faster. In a city you will have to break soon anyway and you realy start to feel the wind.
The diference between 25 km/h electric and 25 km/h pedal only is the acceleration and the fact that electric motor never gets tired :)
To have a good acceleration they sell bikes with 500 W motors that are limited to 250 W. I guess in software.
The bikes that I tested, all have pedal assist but also a separate throtle.
”Going 25 km/h electric only is more than enough. Then you can pedal and go even faster.”
European “Speed assist” bicycles that max out at 25km/hour don’t do 25 on their own; they decrease the amount of assistance to zero when your speed reaches 25. If you don’t do over 25 on a ‘normal’ bicycle, you won’t do it on one of these.
At least in Germany a normal diving license suffices for the s-pedelecs. But it's pretty obvious why you need one. They're forbidden on the cycle Lane's , so you need to drive on the street.
I've got a 1kW bike too, I can short two pins on the controller to bring it down to 250W but it is absolutely useless on uneven terrain or slight inclines.
I wish my controller wasn't braindead, I'd gladly accept the 25kmh speed limit if it could actually ramp itself up to 1Kw while below that speed.
On my way home in the dark, I barely have the throttle engaged and its more than fast enough for my liking.
Just make sure it has a 500+ W motor. I have this one www.e-twow.ro. For an adult just buy the most expensive model.
I do take it with me in stores. Every time I go out somebody stops me because they have questions about it.
If you ever come to Timisoara they do rent them.
A few days ago I tried a fat e-bike in store. That thing is crazy fun. The big pro is that you will not feel any bumps in the road. The downside is that you can not take it inside stores and it might get stolen.
The only "hill" is a bridge over the railroad. From standstill at the bottom it will not go under 12km/h no matter what. This is due to the electric motor torque. Quite different from a gas engine. At first it will go quite fast and as you reach the peak, it will drop to 12-14 km/h.
I tried out a Specialized ebike. The maximum assist setting was a little frightening. The medium was like cycling with a tailwind, which is always fun.
I’ve been eying a folding electric bike for a two mile commute to the train in the mornings in Boston. I’ve been told Paris and other cities in Europe are full of them for the past few years—anyone have any recs, specifically for folding ebikes?
Nevertheless, the various rules can be confusing. Officials from the New > "York City Department of Transportation insisted in emails this month that all bicycles with any sort of electrical assistance are illegal, which would make them subject to confiscation and fines of up to $500."
One can't help but wonder if such oversight will disproportionately have a negative impact on those at the lower end of the economic scale.
Too often the perception seems to be the poor are as such because they don't try hard enough. The reality is, too often we force them to have to try harder than everyone else.
Of course. E-bikes are generally considered the new DUI bike. They're the bottom rung of society. It's very easy to get classist about the e-bikes, instead of considering how they give useful transportation to people who had none, and they're probably the greenest thing short of pedal power
Really? Most people I know use them when they have a long or a very hilly commute so they can still bike without spending too much time it getting sweaty. Most of them make 6 figures.
The word "e-bike", in my experience, has been used to refer to a lot of things.
I've seen the pedal-assist bikes called e-bikes, as well as ones that look more similar to mopeds. The moped-style e-bikes are generally what get called "DUI-bikes".
Hamilton, Ontario. Here, "e-bike" means an electric scooter/moped, and they have a reputation for being used by drunks and the down-and-out here, unfortunately.
NYC is one of the few places I have seen with enough e-bikes in what looks like daily use to make a difference in how people get around. It's a shame to try to stem this tide. It could bring cheap, small-footprint transportation to NYC.
In NYC, most e-bikes are used by people running delivery. People running delivery are paid very little and may be undocumented. NYPD has seized hundreds of e-bikes (at roughly ~$1000/each) and fined their riders.
Our mayor has unfortunately listened to rich upper-west-siders who see e-bikes as a nuisance, so beginning in 2018 there will be increased enforcement against e-bikes. DeBlasio has suggested that e-bike users "use cars" instead. This is totally insane as it will only increase congestion and decrease safety overall.
I bought a £500 e-bike from a supermarket 3 years ago and I've been using it for daily commute since then. I have 9km to office, e-bike is a practical option. Cheaper models, like mine, have motor either in front or in rear hub. Both work fine, you don't really need a $2000 model with a crank drive. TFA claims that crank drive improves the bike's center of gravity :-). Actually it's more about being able to change gears between the motor and the wheel, but hub motors are also fine, at least up to the legal speed limit in Europe. The models sold in the E.U. are limited to 25km/h (15mi/h), I think in Japan the limit is even lower.
I decided to buy an ebike last month. Turns out there was a lot of information to take in.
Hub motors are great and cheap for cruising on flat roads.
Crank drive motors/mid drive are great for power and torque for hills and mountain biking.
Lunacycle.com is the best value I've found, I had sticker shock at first until I learned what's what.
In Japan, unfortunately the opportunities for commuting are limited. Apologies if things have changed since I last looked at it (but I don't think it has): the limiter must be graduated. Under 12km/h it is full assistance and it gradually drops off until at 20km/h it is no assistance. Where I live (in the countryside) they are extremely popular with the elderly, but they are practically useless for anything else. Speeds between 12km and 15km are already pretty effortless for most people on flat surfaces (where most people will be riding) and the extra weight penalty means that you just have a very expensive, very slow bike.
Part of the problem is that cycling has been a utilitarian thing in Japan until very recently. When I moved here 10 years ago I never once saw a road bike. Bicycles were treated as the thing children rode to school or old women rode to the store to pick up 1 or 2 items.
Scooters have a speed limit of 30km/h (though only a few people obey the rule) and you must have a helmet. Bicycles have no such rules because the law makers can't really fathom that a bicycle can get anywhere near that speed. When I was riding regularly, it was not at all uncommon for me to pass scooters on the highway.
Things are changing very quickly (cycling is hugely popular now), so I'm curious to see how the laws change as a result.
> Officials from the New York City Department of Transportation insisted in emails this month that all bicycles with any sort of electrical assistance are illegal, which would make them subject to confiscation and fines of up to $500.
They aren't necessarily illegal if one fits them with the required lighting, gets insurance, registers them as a moped, and wears a DOT approved helmet. Nobody does this of course but it is possible to be legal in NY.
They do become illegal on bike paths, which is now prominently displayed on signs along West St. instead of installing the bollards that should have been there all along.
EDIT: Apparently insurance and helmet are optional for class C (sub 20mph) mopeds/scooters.
How would bollards prevent ebikes from entering the bike path? The Williamsburg bridge has bollards and yet ebikes and even recumbent tricycles fit through.
E-bikes aren't such a dangerous scourge as cars. The priority should be on implementing real safety measures, not putting up signs. It's silly that NYSE is protected like a fortress even though nothing important happens there any more but vulnerable paths are left wide open.
NYSE isn't protected because it's important. NYSE is protected because it's perceived to be important; i.e., it's a high-profile terror target. Whether or not NYSE is actually important, is of secondary importance.
The same reason that public-facing corporate websites often receive more security attention than the actually-important internal network.
(e. conclusion: the recent trend of weaponizing automobiles may be a huge win for pedestrian/cyclist safety... :-\)
This reeks of discrimination. Someone should sue under the Americans with Disabilities Act. Electrical assistance helps individuals who suffer from bad knees or other physical issues that prevent them from using bikes effectively. As long as the assistance keeps the bike well within the range of "normal" bike speed/power, they should be treated under the law like pure mechanical bikes.
> As long as the assistance keeps the bike well within the range of "normal" bike speed/power
It doesn't. There are fast e-bikes out there. Recently I was out running on a country side road. I was passed by some guy testing an e-bike, going astonishingly fast. Knowing the exact distances along that road (it's exactly a mile long, and I know where the half mile split is), I clocked how fast it took him to get to from the half mile mark to the one mile point (crossroads) where he stopped and turned around. He was doing between 50-60km/h, taking some 30 seconds to go 800 meters.
Didn't catch the make of the e-bike.
I heard that there are supposed to be speed limits in these things, but if so, it seems people are able to circumvent them.
Some people will live with hardware throttled to 25 km/h that can inherently do double, some will find workarounds to tap into its true potential.
[Edit: that aforementioned rider wasn't pedaling, by the way.]
http://www.ncsl.org/research/transportation/state-electric-b... Covers the laws. Importantly:
“””
At the federal level, a 2002 law enacted by Congress, HB 727, amended the Consumer Product Safety Commission definition of e-bikes. The law defined a low-speed electric bicycle as “A two- or three-wheeled vehicle with fully operable pedals and an electric motor of less than 750 watts (1 h.p.), whose maximum speed on a paved level surface, when powered solely by such a motor while ridden by an operator who weighs 170 pounds, is less than 20 mph.” The federal law permits e-bikes to be powered by the motor alone (a “throttle-assist” e-bike), or by a combination of motor and human power (a “pedal-assist” e-bike).
“””
However, it’s very easy to buy a wheel with a built-in motor that is more than that:
Get two of those and you’ve got a 10KW electric motorcycle that could probably hit 70+MPH easily.
There are also kits in the 2KW-4KW range that are much cheaper (~$500). If you ban these, you’d have to ban all electric motors, and “winding wire around spinning apparatus”...it’d be very untenable, and there are already laws in place governing max speed and power. We have the same thing for emissions in some states, and enforcement is slim to none. Basically, you have to just count on people using it responsible, just like with motorcycles / electric skateboards / electric wheelchairs / snowmobiles / dirt bikes / gopeds / mini bikes / pit bikes / go karts / pocket bikes / powered paragliders / RC cars etc etc.
How will EBikes be significantly different? All of these have legal uses and a small percentage of owners using them outside of their legally allowed scope.
I don’t think it’s a big enough problem to warrant more regulation. Also, more regulation != more enforcement. Will police carry portable dynos or ammeters and measure the output of your ebike? More likely is that idiots keeping up with traffic at 50MPH will get ticketed by police who notice. It’d actually be great IMO if you COULD have a light electric motorcycle that could go ~35-40, plate it like a motorcycle, and be allowed to ride on normal bike lanes and trails as long as you keep it under 15MPH or whatever the trail speed limit is.
Just like with “drones”, these have existed for decades, but now they’re a “problem” because any punter with a few hundred bucks can buy one ready to do stupid things with at a local shop or off Amazon.
Banning all electric bikes seems a little over the top though, surely? The same argument can be made that all trucks should be banned because some have been tampered with to exceed the max speed limit.
Seriously folks, scooters and small motorcycles are fun, the MSF is a great way to spend a couple of Sundays.
I wanted an e-bike, then realized that I’d really just be getting a slow motorcycle, and bought a much more capable slow motorcycle (Honda Grom) instead for about the same price. Not electric, but Zeros will come down in price eventually.
> installing the bollards that should have been there all along.
A bit of an aside... Please dont default to “install more bollards!” thinking. Bollards are incredibly dangerous, where I live a cyclist is paralyzed/killed by bollards every few years. Theyre also completely ineffective against two wheeled (and small 3-4 wheel) power vehicles. As I recall the ADA compliant spacing is now 6’ between bollards. Not very effective against small cars even!
I've been using a Swagtron Swagger Scooter for a few weeks now and been loving it. I need to make some modifications, and I need to charge it before leaving work.
Put an aerodynamic fairing on the front and a roof to keep out rain and you have the classic electric velomobile, of which there have been variations for 100 years.
Unfortunately, the issue with tricycles is the additional space they take up and their reduced maneuverability. They are hard to use on most extant cycle infrastructure, hard to transition to sidewalks or off street paths, hard to park, and quite heavy.
They do enable a people to ride who might not otherwise be able to, but without better infrastructure (protected bike lanes of sufficient width) or slower more forgiving car traffic, they just aren't practical.
Laws vary. For example, TX does not consider tricycles to be a bicycle. It would be considered a motorcycle. In general the law is not enforced but it might be for an electric trike.
This seems really confusing. Is it like this only for powered bicycles/tricycles or for human powered ones as well. Do you happen to know what the state does for disabled folks needs the tricycle over the bicycle due to their disabilities?
IIRC TX state law defines a bicycle as having two wheels, pedals, and no gasoline engine but includes electric. As far as I could find when I read the law it does not include trikes at all, meaning they qualify as mopeds or motorcycles.
For extra wierd, try the diesel Aixam Coupe (https://www.aixam.com/en/licence-free-car-coupe/gti). In the UK these are classified as quadbikes and can be driven by moped-only licensed drivers (aged 16+, normally you need to be 17 to drive).
hey if you have questions about ebikes please ask -- they have been a passion of mine for a very long time. i dont know much about the latest models though, it got kind of boring after they got popular.
dont worry about new york, ebikes have been illegal there for a long time and that cities policies towards ebikes is not a reflection of the rest of the country, especially with the new and more unified regulations regarding ebike power levels. the reason ny is so weird about ebikes is because ny delivery people were the first group of people in the country to understand and utilize ebikes, way back in the day, and when they did they were complete ass holes about it. because they rode way too fast and inappropriately, ebikes have a very bad reputation in that neighborhood.
the new regulations, if i remember correctly, call for several tiers of ebike power levels. the lowest is 20mph top speed on level ground and no throttle. you can ride those anywhere. then there are two higher tiers, the higher one can have a throttle. those bikes are only supposed to ride in designated areas if i remember correctly. this is a federal regulation that leaves the details to its implementer. but if you go forward in time you will probably see a set of rules like those i described pretty much everywhere.
one exciting thing about ebikes is that their power is limited by law but their energy is not. as ebikes become more mainstream and higher prices more tolerated, you will see bikes with more and more battery capacity. you will see bikes that only go 20mph but can go for hundreds of miles at top speed up and down hills. eventually even that kind of ebike will be affordable.
another exciting thing is the new class of bike that will come out of all this. like the article says, it isnt crazy to think of these as alternatives to cars rather than bikes. and this will be reflected in new kind of bikes that are heavier duty, with very nice shocks and huge batteries. you will just see stuff that was never on bikes before, like windscreens and nice seats. on these bikes, pedals will basically become vestigial. you will simply use the pedals as a kind of accelerator (not being replaced by a traditional acc. pedal or throttle for legal reasons and to make the bike ride-able anywhere). youll have very fine tuned control over the speed and acceleration of the vehicle through these special pedals. i think we might also see total enclosure of the bike for all-weather operation. thats pretty difficult to do though.
i was considering starting some kind of business to catch this wave. if anybody is interested maybe hit me up
Where are you located? What skills and level of commitment can you offer?
I've been working on ebike related device for almost 3 years now, and getting ready to soft launch in March...
wow that sounds exciting. no experience or reliable skills -- just a lot of surface knowledge about ebikes and power electronics. do you guys have a website or something?
Not yet. The idea is to squeeze the edrive into a small device, that can be attached to any bike in 3-5 seconds (no tools or skills required). Drop me a line, if interested: quickandslow80 at gmail_com.
I'd definitely be interested in exploring. I have a carbon fiber design & fabrication biz/shop, done some UAS/drone projects... let's see what could work
A (not-by-much-)sub-$1000 conventional bike will still tend to have low-end components.
I'd expect a sub-$1000 electric to be quite a piece of crap.
A, say, $850 conventional bike can at least take upgrades. Which is to say that as things go you can replace them with better versions.
Not so sure about upgrading a sub-$1000 e-bike over time with better parts. (How standardized and modular are the drive trains for those things, know what I mean?)
> A (not-by-much-)sub-$1000 conventional bike will still tend to have low-end components.
Not low-end, just not top-of-the-line. My $900 msrp aluminum frame road bike is a decade old, I ride it every day, and I haven't had to replace anything except brake pads and tires. And I'm not even a maintenance freak.
I could easily imagine a high-quality, sub-$1000 assisted bike. Especially because you don't need light components with an assist, which makes the quality/cost trade-offs easier.
Similar experience here, with a bike in the $500 range. I get long term daily use use out of bikes thrown together from parts that are 30+ years old. I take care of basic periodic maintenance, and that's about it. When I upgrade a part with another used part that I get for free, it's typically for aesthetics rather than necessity.
There's a huge range of opinions about what constitutes an acceptable level of quality in a bike. Also, experiences with maintenance will vary due to local conditions. Road salt isn't particularly friendly to bikes, for instance.
"I'd expect a sub-$1000 electric to be quite a piece of crap."
You'd be wrong. Hundreds of thousands of people in Beijing (including many thousands of couriers and food delivery folk) rely on sub-$1000 electric bikes. They work well, and don't often require repair. (When they do need repair, it's usually something cheap like re-adjusting brakes.)
The components used on a push bike are far more important than those used on an electric bike, because it affects the amount of effort required by the rider. 5% less effort is material. For an electric bike, though, it just means your range is 33km instead of 35km. No big deal if you're doing a daily commute in the city.
For reference: the last used electric bike I bought (in Beijing) cost me ~$160 including a nearly new lead-acid battery. I spent another $200 to replace that with a brand new 48V20Ah lithium battery, and another ~$50 to add a back box that can hold two full face helmets.
What a weird thing to say. People don't buy ebikes for an entry jnto electric, they buy them because they're a really convenient, fast and fun way to commute.
Sure, the electric bikes in Beijing aren't as fancy as these ones, but there are 100,000s of them, and many people rely on them to get to work, go grocery shopping, or to allow them to work as a food delivery rider.
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[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 127 ms ] threadI'd love to switch my car for electric, but that is still expensive.
If you want to be a reasonable road user you need to be able to keep up with cars, so cruise around 50 and go up to 70 kmh to overtake, maintain speed uphill etc.
Basically it’s more of a scooter in a bike format with low weight and manouvrability. Love it!
Edit: I assume downvotes are from people morally insulted of how illegal it is.
I'd like to add that having less gears would be nice, currently I have 8, only half are needed.
It's a MTB bike shape, so you always leaning forward. Normal city "omafiets" would be dangerous at those speeds - not enough pressure/grip on front tyre.
Also, I don't have to commute, only use it for fun (ok I did came to do some work to the university library right now).
I don't know if it makes much difference to top speed, but it's really nice at 25mph (40 km/h) in the rain! (I have a 1300W mid-drive.)
But I agree, my main concern is difference in speed with cars. Worst case I could use electric scooter just for "last mile" and use public transportation. That is something ebike will again have more problems with.
The diference between 25 km/h electric and 25 km/h pedal only is the acceleration and the fact that electric motor never gets tired :)
To have a good acceleration they sell bikes with 500 W motors that are limited to 250 W. I guess in software.
The bikes that I tested, all have pedal assist but also a separate throtle.
European “Speed assist” bicycles that max out at 25km/hour don’t do 25 on their own; they decrease the amount of assistance to zero when your speed reaches 25. If you don’t do over 25 on a ‘normal’ bicycle, you won’t do it on one of these.
* under 250W, under 25km/h: no more approval than a pedal powered bicycle
* L1e-A: under 25km/h, under 1kW electric
* L1e-B: under 45km/h, under 4kW electric ("speed pedelec" class)
L1e-A and L1e-B ebikes need an extra type certification. Plus there are hurdles in terms of insurance, sometimes also helmet obligation, and more.
[0] https://ec.europa.eu/growth/sectors/automotive/legislation/m...
What is the extra certification required? I assume something about tyre size, brakes and perhaps frame strength?
I wish my controller wasn't braindead, I'd gladly accept the 25kmh speed limit if it could actually ramp itself up to 1Kw while below that speed.
On my way home in the dark, I barely have the throttle engaged and its more than fast enough for my liking.
I do take it with me in stores. Every time I go out somebody stops me because they have questions about it. If you ever come to Timisoara they do rent them.
A few days ago I tried a fat e-bike in store. That thing is crazy fun. The big pro is that you will not feel any bumps in the road. The downside is that you can not take it inside stores and it might get stolen.
The biggest advantage is that I don't have to find a parking space for it and it always drops me in front of the door.
PS. I have the 450W model.
For a two mile commute, you might want to also consider a pedal powered Brompton. I can easily call mine one of my best investments ever.
https://www.brompton.com/Brompton-Electric
I would suggest either a standard folding bicycle for use with the train, or a full size ebike and just ride the full distance.
One can't help but wonder if such oversight will disproportionately have a negative impact on those at the lower end of the economic scale.
Too often the perception seems to be the poor are as such because they don't try hard enough. The reality is, too often we force them to have to try harder than everyone else.
I've seen the pedal-assist bikes called e-bikes, as well as ones that look more similar to mopeds. The moped-style e-bikes are generally what get called "DUI-bikes".
"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize."
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
I'm describing the classism, not participating in it.
Our mayor has unfortunately listened to rich upper-west-siders who see e-bikes as a nuisance, so beginning in 2018 there will be increased enforcement against e-bikes. DeBlasio has suggested that e-bike users "use cars" instead. This is totally insane as it will only increase congestion and decrease safety overall.
Streetsblog NYC has good reporting on this: https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2017/11/22/delivery-workers-conf...
Part of the problem is that cycling has been a utilitarian thing in Japan until very recently. When I moved here 10 years ago I never once saw a road bike. Bicycles were treated as the thing children rode to school or old women rode to the store to pick up 1 or 2 items.
Scooters have a speed limit of 30km/h (though only a few people obey the rule) and you must have a helmet. Bicycles have no such rules because the law makers can't really fathom that a bicycle can get anywhere near that speed. When I was riding regularly, it was not at all uncommon for me to pass scooters on the highway.
Things are changing very quickly (cycling is hugely popular now), so I'm curious to see how the laws change as a result.
They aren't necessarily illegal if one fits them with the required lighting, gets insurance, registers them as a moped, and wears a DOT approved helmet. Nobody does this of course but it is possible to be legal in NY.
They do become illegal on bike paths, which is now prominently displayed on signs along West St. instead of installing the bollards that should have been there all along.
EDIT: Apparently insurance and helmet are optional for class C (sub 20mph) mopeds/scooters.
The same reason that public-facing corporate websites often receive more security attention than the actually-important internal network.
(e. conclusion: the recent trend of weaponizing automobiles may be a huge win for pedestrian/cyclist safety... :-\)
It doesn't. There are fast e-bikes out there. Recently I was out running on a country side road. I was passed by some guy testing an e-bike, going astonishingly fast. Knowing the exact distances along that road (it's exactly a mile long, and I know where the half mile split is), I clocked how fast it took him to get to from the half mile mark to the one mile point (crossroads) where he stopped and turned around. He was doing between 50-60km/h, taking some 30 seconds to go 800 meters.
Didn't catch the make of the e-bike.
I heard that there are supposed to be speed limits in these things, but if so, it seems people are able to circumvent them.
Some people will live with hardware throttled to 25 km/h that can inherently do double, some will find workarounds to tap into its true potential.
[Edit: that aforementioned rider wasn't pedaling, by the way.]
However, it’s very easy to buy a wheel with a built-in motor that is more than that:
http://www.hi-powercycles.com/hpc-5000w-hub-motor-complete-k...
Get two of those and you’ve got a 10KW electric motorcycle that could probably hit 70+MPH easily.
There are also kits in the 2KW-4KW range that are much cheaper (~$500). If you ban these, you’d have to ban all electric motors, and “winding wire around spinning apparatus”...it’d be very untenable, and there are already laws in place governing max speed and power. We have the same thing for emissions in some states, and enforcement is slim to none. Basically, you have to just count on people using it responsible, just like with motorcycles / electric skateboards / electric wheelchairs / snowmobiles / dirt bikes / gopeds / mini bikes / pit bikes / go karts / pocket bikes / powered paragliders / RC cars etc etc.
How will EBikes be significantly different? All of these have legal uses and a small percentage of owners using them outside of their legally allowed scope.
I don’t think it’s a big enough problem to warrant more regulation. Also, more regulation != more enforcement. Will police carry portable dynos or ammeters and measure the output of your ebike? More likely is that idiots keeping up with traffic at 50MPH will get ticketed by police who notice. It’d actually be great IMO if you COULD have a light electric motorcycle that could go ~35-40, plate it like a motorcycle, and be allowed to ride on normal bike lanes and trails as long as you keep it under 15MPH or whatever the trail speed limit is.
Just like with “drones”, these have existed for decades, but now they’re a “problem” because any punter with a few hundred bucks can buy one ready to do stupid things with at a local shop or off Amazon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachograph#Tampering
https://www.fietsenwinkel.nl/fietsen/-/elektrische_fietsen/s...
They're quick of the mark too, and with the limiter disabled they'll be a lot quicker than the stock 45 km/h.
I wanted an e-bike, then realized that I’d really just be getting a slow motorcycle, and bought a much more capable slow motorcycle (Honda Grom) instead for about the same price. Not electric, but Zeros will come down in price eventually.
A bit of an aside... Please dont default to “install more bollards!” thinking. Bollards are incredibly dangerous, where I live a cyclist is paralyzed/killed by bollards every few years. Theyre also completely ineffective against two wheeled (and small 3-4 wheel) power vehicles. As I recall the ADA compliant spacing is now 6’ between bollards. Not very effective against small cars even!
The FHWA says “bollards should never be a default treatment, and should not be used unless there is a documented history of intrusion by unauthorized cars.” https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/recreational_trails/gui...
Other landscaping features, such as medians or chicans, are both more effective and safer at restricting trail access.
How about a nice e-Tricycle with a basket on the back?
I'd prefer not to go tumbling to to ground or into traffic if I make a mistake on my bike or someone else makes a mistake and I fall down for it.
That'd be truly entry-level.
Unfortunately, the issue with tricycles is the additional space they take up and their reduced maneuverability. They are hard to use on most extant cycle infrastructure, hard to transition to sidewalks or off street paths, hard to park, and quite heavy.
They do enable a people to ride who might not otherwise be able to, but without better infrastructure (protected bike lanes of sufficient width) or slower more forgiving car traffic, they just aren't practical.
For extra wierd, try the diesel Aixam Coupe (https://www.aixam.com/en/licence-free-car-coupe/gti). In the UK these are classified as quadbikes and can be driven by moped-only licensed drivers (aged 16+, normally you need to be 17 to drive).
New York City delivery-men mostly use electric bikes, probably built from Chinese models used by hundreds of millions in China.
dont worry about new york, ebikes have been illegal there for a long time and that cities policies towards ebikes is not a reflection of the rest of the country, especially with the new and more unified regulations regarding ebike power levels. the reason ny is so weird about ebikes is because ny delivery people were the first group of people in the country to understand and utilize ebikes, way back in the day, and when they did they were complete ass holes about it. because they rode way too fast and inappropriately, ebikes have a very bad reputation in that neighborhood.
the new regulations, if i remember correctly, call for several tiers of ebike power levels. the lowest is 20mph top speed on level ground and no throttle. you can ride those anywhere. then there are two higher tiers, the higher one can have a throttle. those bikes are only supposed to ride in designated areas if i remember correctly. this is a federal regulation that leaves the details to its implementer. but if you go forward in time you will probably see a set of rules like those i described pretty much everywhere.
one exciting thing about ebikes is that their power is limited by law but their energy is not. as ebikes become more mainstream and higher prices more tolerated, you will see bikes with more and more battery capacity. you will see bikes that only go 20mph but can go for hundreds of miles at top speed up and down hills. eventually even that kind of ebike will be affordable.
another exciting thing is the new class of bike that will come out of all this. like the article says, it isnt crazy to think of these as alternatives to cars rather than bikes. and this will be reflected in new kind of bikes that are heavier duty, with very nice shocks and huge batteries. you will just see stuff that was never on bikes before, like windscreens and nice seats. on these bikes, pedals will basically become vestigial. you will simply use the pedals as a kind of accelerator (not being replaced by a traditional acc. pedal or throttle for legal reasons and to make the bike ride-able anywhere). youll have very fine tuned control over the speed and acceleration of the vehicle through these special pedals. i think we might also see total enclosure of the bike for all-weather operation. thats pretty difficult to do though.
i was considering starting some kind of business to catch this wave. if anybody is interested maybe hit me up
A (not-by-much-)sub-$1000 conventional bike will still tend to have low-end components.
I'd expect a sub-$1000 electric to be quite a piece of crap.
A, say, $850 conventional bike can at least take upgrades. Which is to say that as things go you can replace them with better versions.
Not so sure about upgrading a sub-$1000 e-bike over time with better parts. (How standardized and modular are the drive trains for those things, know what I mean?)
Not low-end, just not top-of-the-line. My $900 msrp aluminum frame road bike is a decade old, I ride it every day, and I haven't had to replace anything except brake pads and tires. And I'm not even a maintenance freak.
I could easily imagine a high-quality, sub-$1000 assisted bike. Especially because you don't need light components with an assist, which makes the quality/cost trade-offs easier.
There's a huge range of opinions about what constitutes an acceptable level of quality in a bike. Also, experiences with maintenance will vary due to local conditions. Road salt isn't particularly friendly to bikes, for instance.
You'd be wrong. Hundreds of thousands of people in Beijing (including many thousands of couriers and food delivery folk) rely on sub-$1000 electric bikes. They work well, and don't often require repair. (When they do need repair, it's usually something cheap like re-adjusting brakes.)
The components used on a push bike are far more important than those used on an electric bike, because it affects the amount of effort required by the rider. 5% less effort is material. For an electric bike, though, it just means your range is 33km instead of 35km. No big deal if you're doing a daily commute in the city.
For reference: the last used electric bike I bought (in Beijing) cost me ~$160 including a nearly new lead-acid battery. I spent another $200 to replace that with a brand new 48V20Ah lithium battery, and another ~$50 to add a back box that can hold two full face helmets.
Sure, the electric bikes in Beijing aren't as fancy as these ones, but there are 100,000s of them, and many people rely on them to get to work, go grocery shopping, or to allow them to work as a food delivery rider.