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Ask HN: How are you securing your laptops in public places?

41 points by zemanel ↗ HN
How are you securing your laptops in public places, like coffee shops and LAN parties/events, when you're by yourself and need to be absent from the laptop? Like when "nature calls".

EDIT:

1. i think i mean "gyroscope" instead of osciloscope. 2. since this post is my content and, ergo, any comments here are derived from that content, i therefore allow permission for any commenter to make use of humor, sarcasm, wits and any language expression deemed "funny".

102 comments

[ 4.8 ms ] story [ 155 ms ] thread
swombat
I keep my laptop with me at all times in a public place. If I go to the toilet, I pack up my laptop and take it with me. It's not worth risking £2.2k of equipment (plus all the hassle) for the convenience of not losing your seat.

Worth noting that I don't work in coffee shops too often.

davidw
+1 for paranoia. It's not just the price of the laptop itself:

* Downtime if I have to replace it.

* Hassle of getting something similar (US keyboard) over here in Italy.

* Worry of having passwords/ssh keys/etc... out there.

dkersten
But you have to admit, £2.2k is an expensive laptop! How do Apple get away with this!
mrtron
Time machine negates the downtime of getting back to where you are at. It has dramatically reduced my lost laptop phobia.
stcredzero
Been there, done that. You're still going to lose a big chunk of a day.
mrtron
It shows the quality of the product when you can be back up and running in about 4 hours.

Completely back to where you were at last backup while you go get a coffee. That is a huge win for anyone who lives with their laptop as their primary tool.

rbanffy
> Hassle of getting something similar (US keyboard) over here in Italy.

I have a similar problem in Brazil. Only once Dell offered me an apology for not having a Brazilian keyboard on one of their laptops. If I want a laptop with US layout, I have to either import one or buy a compatible keyboard in the gray market.

dagw
Hassle of getting something similar (US keyboard)

This is one thing Apple does very right. Apple is the only company that will happily sell me a laptop with a US keyboard here in Sweden. In fact they have it as a standard option in their web shop and doesn't cost anything. From every other brand I've looked it was either a flat out "No" or an expensive a complicated procedure.

barrkel
This is ironic. In the same way that Apple is closed system and hence hardware is normally more expensive than PC's standardized hardware, laptops are integrated systems and the fragmentation means only a handful of parts are generically substitutable. Apple wins by having proportionally less fragmentation.

Most laptop keyboards are little replaceable trays connected to the motherboard with a ribbon cable. If the keyboards were easily available to purchase independently, you could probably do it yourself; but they're not.

Vitaly
it is definitely not like that here in Israel. And this is the reason we are buying laptops from US. The local hebrew compatible keyboard is just horrible. with a very small Enter key, displaced "~" etc.
mootothemax
Absolutely agree. There's a reason that bikes don't last long when locked up in busy city centres; given that laptops are even easier to steal and fence, why wouldn't you keep it with you at all times?
thibaut_barrere
I second that. There's no way I'd leave my laptop, apart if I'm home, or if I need to go to the toilets at a trusted client office.

Even when I'm at clients, I keep it at lunch with me, as losing it would really be a hassle.

Also I keep what I consider sensitive data into a Knox volume (http://agilewebsolutions.com/knox), which has been working fairly well for me.

ojbyrne
Ditto. I have a backpack full of expensive gear (DSLR, Lens, Laptop, iPad, phones). It's easy to just stick the laptop in its compartment, put the backpack on my back and go.
dgallagher
I do the same, but leave a bottle of water, napkins, or half-eaten food at my seat. I've never once had someone take it from me.
benatkin
Me too. A power adapter is another thing I'll often leave there.
pasbesoin
I'll leave a book and some unimportant papers -- and maybe my jacket over the seatback, depending upon weather -- to retain my table. The laptop, bag, phone, etc. go with me to the john.

Worst case, I'm out the price of a book and/or jacket. The machine and data remain safe.

Even then, I may ask a trustworthy-looking neighbor to keep an eye on my spot. And I return the favor whenever asked.

P.S. Leave also a pad or piece of paper with some writing on it, with a pen/pencil on top. People are much less likely to assume the table is abandoned.

EDIT: P.P.S. From the more paranoid side: Don't leave an unfinished drink that you intend to finish upon return, especially if you are part of what is considered a target demographic. I would guess incidences are much lower in cafes, but I take this lesson from my family who grew up in much tougher neighborhoods. You don't want someone slipping something into your drink. I learned to get my drink straight from the bartender -- watch him/her open a bottle of beer for you if you really have your doubts -- and don't turn your back on it or leave it unattended. (I guess this could apply to food, as well.)

stcredzero
I use a "Shuttle 2.0" case. Since you can work on the laptop with it inside the case, it's very easy to take it to the bathroom. Leave books and the power supply and ask a neighbor to watch your stuff.

http://amzn.com/B000XV8EJU

dkersten
I got an eee pc for "I'm not at home" purposes, so I just stick it in my bag and bring it with me.

I wouldn't leave my cheap phone unattended, nevermind a laptop.

zemanel
This got me wondering about a self/USB powered device with an oscilloscope or something, that you would attach to a Kesington lock or something and would sound an alarm if it detected movement (being moved)...
c1sc0
I have one of those but never used it for securing laptops, for scaring the shit out of wannabe thieves trying to access my expensive stuff in my beaten old clunker of a car however ... cheapest car alarm ever.
mootothemax
Car alarms don't work. Bike alarms don't work. Out of interest, why do you think a laptop alarm will make any difference?
zemanel
maybe youre right but a soundy alarm inside a coffee shop packs more punch than in the street. But yeah, still doesnt keep the thug from taking it.
AN447
Only leave it around the university library, half these kids are far more affluent than me. So theft is the last thing on most people's agenda!
davidw
I wouldn't bet on it. Sometimes people who have no financial incentive to do things like that will do it for the fun/thrill of it.
harshpotatoes
I'm not sure what your university library is like, but I would be careful in them. At the UWashington, at least once a month you would here announcements over the PA that a few laptops had just gone missing, and to be on the lookout/careful.
koenigdavidmj
Yeah, but that's all contextual as well. If I'm in Odegaard (non-UW people: the 24 hour library) then I will not leave it out. If I am in the CSE department labs, then I probably recognise a few people in the lab at any given time, so I feel a bit safer leaving out the laptop.
joelhaasnoot
Depends what it is. Where I attend college, macbooks are rare, and so they're very likely to "go missing".

I login with my face anyway (Lenovo Face recognition software), so people think/know it's harder to access.

jtbigwoo
You've never read The Catcher in the Rye, then?
mmt
I have, and my worry stems from how many people proudly proclaim how much they relate to the persona[1].

Today, we have remarkably effective medications to treat depressive-spectrum[2] disorders, which are easily enough accessible to the affluent. The hope I espouse is that people do access them.

As much as I admit to being a cynic, I do believe that people are basically socially well-behaved, if not outright honest. Still, truly urban (as opposed to metropolitan suburbia), dense[3] environments appear to me to have a much higher concentration of those who aren't, so I avoid them in general.

[1] No protagonist, in my view

[2] If I may bastardize the Autism- term

[3] e.g. New York, of course, and, here in the Bay Area: San Francisco, Oakland, downtown San Jose

dagw
What about the kids less affluent than you? Also just because they are in the university library doesn't mean they're students. My university had huge problem a while back where thieves would wander in, hang around in the corridors looking for people to leave stuff unattended in offices or study rooms and then simply grab the stuff and head out the door.
akadruid
The same way you secure your wallet.

I can't imagine why anyone would leave their laptop / phone / other device lying around. I go out and about in London, and I don't see anyone doing this.

I suppose LAN parties are an exception, but properly organised large events have a policy of tagging all equipment coming in and checking it on the way out. I have not been to a small private event where people were allowed in without being known and vouched for by another attendee.

herrherr
- Normally I take it with me, just like swombat does

- Harddrive is encrpyted

- Installed http://preyproject.com/ (free) - allows you to track it in case it gets stolen

- My profile is secured by a password, but there is a blank profile that people can just log into, so that Prey can do its work :)

StavrosK
Prey looks great, do you know if it's legit? It's open source and everything, I'm just asking if you know of anything fishy happening with them.
herrherr
I haven't seen anything suspicious yet. But you could use LittleSnitch (on Mac) to see when and what it is sending.
shin_lao
If the disk is encrypted, I'm not sure how Prey project is useful since the thief will not run the original OS but reformat/reinstall one.
herrherr
That's what the open guest profile is for. At least in theory :)
shin_lao
The disk is encrypted, access to the OS is impossible without the decryption key.
SandB0x
"Hey, do you mind watching my stuff for a minute?" works pretty well.

This is normally on a train or a library, and when there's someone around who doesn't look too shifty.

wyclif
That's especially good with cute girls. Doesn't sound like a line (because it isn't), and often starts a conversation when you return.
zemanel
+1 for geeks with social skills
mootothemax
That's especially good with cute girls

And because the girl's cute, she's sure to be honest!

OK, so it's horrible to be so paranoid, but c'mon - you're trusted a stranger with a lot of money. Would you stop someone in the street, point to $500 lying on the street, ask them the same and expect them to still be there when you come back?

cjg
The difference in liquidity and fungibility of cash and laptops means that people would behave differently in the two situations.

Most people know what to do with $500. Most wouldn't have a clue what to do with a stolen laptop, and wouldn't want to.

mootothemax
Most wouldn't have a clue what to do with a stolen laptop, and wouldn't want to

I sincerely hope that most wouldn't want to :) When it comes to what to do with a stolen laptop though, c'mon, it's a laptop, it's not like you've left them with an audiophile's wet dream of a $500 amplifier tube.

btilly
You would be amazed at how many people don't know how to use a Linux laptop that has its screen locked and its disk encrypted.
mootothemax
I think you would be amazed at how many would still give it a try.
BrandonM
> you're trusted a stranger with a lot of money

"A stranger is just a friend I haven't met yet." - Will Rogers

The term stranger is a useful tool to prevent children from trusting shifty individuals. As an adult, calling people strangers seems to me to be a good way to live in fear and fail to meet interesting new people. Most people are basically good.

anovaskulk
No, most people are not basically good, not really. It is an illusion of goodnes that they give off, due to their indifference, and their going with the flow. If the flow is good, the illusion is maintained, and all is well. But when push come to shove, they will show how little they really care.
Confusion
You're more pessimistic about people than their behavior in day-to-day reality warrants. We're not worried about intrinsic goodness, nor about goodness in extreme circumstances. We're only worried about effective goodness in normal circumstances. Can you ask someone to watch your stuff? Yes, you can. Whatever the reason, the vast majority of people can be trusted in the vast majority of circumstances. There are few that will simply let someone take your stuff when you ask them to watch it for you.

  when push come to shove
Push doesn't come to shove. When someone threatens them, they may as well have threatened you. When there's a sudden flood, accident or any other unlikely incident, then you're often no worse off having someone else watch your stuff.
lutorm
I basically agree with you, but don't think you should worry about someone else coming and taking the laptop. It's the person you asked to watch it that knows you are gone, if anyone, it's they that would get up, take the laptop, and go.

But I think that risk is fairly small if you pick the right person. Ideally someone else with a laptop. They're likely not going anywhere, and they clearly already have a laptop...

anovaskulk
I'm sorry, I did not mean to suggest otherwise. The illusion indeed is maintained in the vast majority of cases.
Confusion
Yes, but whether it is an illusion is irrelevant for the purposes of this discussion. And to wander off into more philosophical territory: if you say it is an illusion, you suggest that there is an intrinsic, below-the-veil-of-illusion, goodness in people. That warrants a huge discussion in itself. I would argue there is no such thing: what we are talking about here is 'the' goodness of people. There is no illusion. That they don't behave equally good in different circumstances is not because they are intrinsically less-than-good: it's because the exact same human characteristics simply give rise to different behavior in different circumstances. The motivation/inclination of people to behave in a certain way is not due intrinsic 'goodness', but due to a variety of other intrinsic characteristics, such as 'fearfulness'.
duck
Most people are basically good.

I completely agree, but for me it is based on how I see and interact with my community (and the surrounding ones). If I am working out of a library, coffee shop, etc. and need to go I will just leave everything as is. However, when I am in some other area I pack it up and take it.

corin_
Although it's always possible that the person you ask is one of the people who are not "basically good", if you're in a public place (such as on a train) then the fact that you've asked means the people sat around you will have heard, so if someone did then try and steal it (even if it was the person you asked), someone else will almost certainly stop them from doing it.
mootothemax
...The fact that you've asked means the people sat around you will have heard, so if someone did then try and steal it... someone else will almost certainly stop them from doing it.

Psychologists disagree: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

For the extremely sad story for why this is nicknamed Genovese syndrome: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese

aplusbi
The bystander effect doesn't have much to do with this because you asked first. The simple act of asking changes peoples perceived personal responsibility.
mootothemax
Maybe it comes from growing up in London, but I will /not/ trust someone I don't know with goods that are worth a great deal of time and money to me.

I'm wondering if having been previously conned (thankfully many years ago now - the embarrassment has faded) has something to do with it. I fell for the man in dining suit asking to borrow money for his meal in a restaurant. I also fell for the girl in tears outside my front door, complete with baby in pushchair. And then, nearly every day in summer months, standing outside the pub, there's /another/ guy or girl who's lost their train fare home. There are more of them out there than you might think.

Poiesis
Recently my mom witnessed an interaction at our county fair where a woman was feeling symptoms of a heart attack, and feeling very ill. This woman flagged down someone, and handed her her iPhone to call for help. The passerby promptly took off with the phone, which is where my mom stepped in to use her phone to help.
BrandonM
I wasn't really commenting on whether or not it's smart to trust someone you don't know with your laptop. I was mainly commenting on his use of the word stranger which really stuck out to me as a term that seems misplaced when used by an adult.
smallegan
I am sure there is some correlation that can be made between cute girls and trustworthiness!
snth
Yes, a negative correlation :)
btilly
Actual experiment carried out in the 90s. Researchers left wallets on the street in various cities, with $100 each, and with sufficient ID to let someone mail it back. They got almost all of the wallets back, and the vast majority still had the $100. Many had notes along the lines of, "You're lucky I was the one who found this. Most people around here would have just taken the money."

The lesson that I took from this is that most people can be assumed to be honest most of the time. The dishonest minority stands out. But yes, in the situation you describe I'd be willing to bet that the $500 would still be there when I came back.

lelele
> "Hey, do you mind watching my stuff for a minute?" works pretty well.

It works pretty well with people who are street-smart enough and really care about other's possessions. I once trusted my purse to a friend of a friend because I had to go on stage to act. When I returned, my purse was hanging from her chair, unwatched. So, it's not about honesty, it's about people really caring about your gear and being able to look after it. Environment matters, too. That time it was a crowded place. A library it would be different.

thingie
Well, it had already happened to me, that someone asked me to look after his stuff and that he will be right back. And then… time went on. And I had my own business and couldn't wait (On a train, you have to get off, for example, that gives you no solution). What then? I've agreed to watch your stuff for a minute, maybe two, maybe even a few more. But not for half an hour. I would just leave, what else can I do (ok, ask someone else to carry on with the duty, silly).
lelele
Yes, one should consider such an issue too. Thanks for sharing.

However, in my case, she was still there because she had been watching us play and afterward we went to a pub all together. I just wanted to say that either she didn't care or she trusted too much other people.

parfe
I just leave it on the table if I need to use the bathroom.

I use an 8 year old laptop (Dell 600m) to connect to a remote X session. They can be had for around $120. I keep nothing sensitive on the local drive.

Someone stealing it would annoy me, but I don't feel the need to stress over it. Being constantly paranoid isn't worth it. I'm not going to sit there worrying that the guy three tables over has been scoping me out during my last three extra larges waiting for the perfect opportunity to grab and go with my laptop.

timr
Netbooks are great for this. I took a trip to Europe this spring, and I bought a $300 EeePC just so that I could check email, post to Facebook, etc. I could carry it into any café (or more realistically, McDonalds...free internet!) in France, and not really worry about theft.

Install Linux on one of those little guys, and you've got a reasonably useful hacking terminal that is practically disposable.

camtarn
Small light laptop, messenger bag which is quick to drop the laptop into and sling over one's shoulder, and occasional OS maintenance to keep suspend/resume as fast as possible. I found that all of these factors meant that I was more likely to take my laptop with me than when I had a bulky desktop replacement in a fiddly rucksack that took ~30 seconds to come back from sleep.

I also had a pair of cargo pants with a ripped pocket that was almost big enough to carry my laptop. Always meant to sew an extension onto that pocket to create a quick-draw laptop holster - the perfect thing for someone who likes to walk about while thinking and needs to take notes in a hurry ;)

ahi
At first I thought, "awesome, I need to do that!" Then I felt ashamed for both of us.
bnoordhuis
My laptop has a sticker on it: "WARNING! Do not touch. This device belongs to a person with a contagious skin disease."

Works like a charm. :-)

rbanffy
My car had a "Radioactive. In case of accident, please contact xxx-xxxx urgently".

I never had any break in incident with that car.

jasonkester
Sprawl.

With enough cables, mousepads and assorted garbage cluttering one of those little coffee shop tables, I'll wager I can pee faster than you can pack my stuff and casually walk out the door.

Sure, it doesn't stop the guy in the ski mask and hamburgler shirt from snatching it and sprinting off, but really has anybody here actually seen that happen to a laptop at a Starbucks?

mootothemax
has anybody here actually seen that happen to a laptop at a Starbucks

Not Starbucks, but yes, in plenty of public places. For a scummier example, Newham General hospital in London had a huge problem with people walking in to the A&E department and walking off with their computers.

As far as I can tell, there are two types of theft: those of opportunity (addict needs a fix right now!) and those which are planned. I've seen a laptop being stolen without realising it before: well-dressed guy walked up to the table, unplugged, calmly packed it away, and walked out. Two minutes later the real owner comes in and asks if anyone's seen what happened. Sad, even lost the case!

niekmaas
About a year ago we had a similar problem in the hospital I was doing clinical rotations in. A gang of well-dressed men would walk in holding empty-laptop and beamer bags. They would then check out all conference rooms and take all equipment they could easily remove. Nobody ever noticed until they checked out all security video footage.
matwood
Most of my public place time is in a local coffee shop where I know everyone (owner, employees, other customers) and they know me. I can leave my stuff there no problem and if I need to leave to run an errand I can pack my stuff up and leave it behind the counter.

In unfamiliar public places I generally will pack up completely. It only takes a second for someone to steal your stuff and that's the last thing I need :)

zaidf
I've been leaving my laptop unattended at school libraries for OVER 5 years. Zero incidents. I lied--this one girl turned it in few months ago thinking I'd forgotten.

I have left it for 12+ hours on more occasions then I can count. Once I had to mistakingly leave it overnight because I got the closing time wrong. I returned the next day and my desk was untouched.

My friends at school think I'm nuts. But for me, leaving the laptop at one place for a prolonged period of time serves as an anchor of sorts. I can go do things(eat/play/class) and return back without the headache of having to setup up my work environment again.

lotusleaf1987
Wow...I don't think most people can pull that off. Maybe the way you leave your desk gives it the appearance you're just nearby? I just pack light and pack up anytime I need to leave the immediate area. I never step out of sight.
carterschonwald
I did this many time in college to, at the library that's 24hrs. It also helps if at least one upper level or grad mathy text is on the table lying open. That being said: 1) for the 12+hr interval (eg heading off to sleep then do something, then return) I add one of those laptop lock cables 2) those cables are more for the psychology of "don't touch this" than for security (just like how people feel uncomfortable near unfamiliar math), as a cheap wire cutter will remove one in a short time
zaidf
Ah of course! Leave a textbook open, or a notebook open that shows you were in the middle of a sentence before you had to go take a call.

I've actually thought about doing an experiment with an iPod: I'd leave an iPod in the student union and observe how long before someone turns it in / tries to run away with it.

ehsanul
You're lucky. I've had salt and dish-washing liquid stolen from a shared kitchen in a college dorm.
smokey_the_bear
I don't think salt and laptop thieves are necessarily the same people. I might eat someone's ice cream in a shared kitchen, but I'd never steal a laptop.
javanix
1. I avoid leaving it around in public places.

2. If I were to think about leaving it in a public place, I'd think of ways to make people not want to steal it - it's a laptop, it takes about 2 seconds for someone to grab it and run if it's not secured. No alarm or tracking system is going to do anything to PREVENT theft if the thief doesn't know about it.

paulgb
I'm pretty protective of my laptop by not leaving it alone, but one thing that I do is ensure my laptop is not too desirable to thieves. I have a half-dozen stickers on the back, primarily as a theft deterrent (they make a good conversation starter, too).

I'm actually deterred from buying a new laptop because I've put several years of effort into abusing my machine to the point that it's cosmetically not worth selling.

stcredzero
I'm sure you could find dozens of happy laptop-abuse volunteers on Craigslist.
imajes
I spent 8 weeks in Buenos Aires last year - a high theft city. I worked out of a favorite coffee shop, and frequently went upstairs to use the bathroom whilst leaving my laptop out downstairs.

tips -

1. always be comfortable in your surroundings. Know who's coming in and out, the type of people, whether you can trust the staff.

2. make eye contact with someone, best if it's a staff member, and ask them to keep an eye. Most people will, and staff will often hover by your table till you get back.

3. Put your screen to sleep and half close the lid. Helps if you have clutter on the table -- don't draw attention to it.

4. be quick. :) obvious but useful to know.

finally: have insurance, backups, etc.

One more thing-- i've found having a kensington chain to be useful where i have things in longer-term situations which i leave unattended for a while (e.g. my display in the coworking space i'm at). Those are pretty lightweight and really easy to install. wrap one around a table leg and lock to the machine. Done.

gcv
Spend time at a coworking location instead of a coffee shop, and don't worry about it.
michaelkeenan
Product idea: a USB device with an accelerometer. When you need to leave your laptop for a few minutes, you insert the USB device and start a program that plays a loud siren sound if the USB device reports movement, or if it's removed. Then you lock your screen the usual way.

Downside: if they power off the laptop or remove the battery, they can still take the laptop. Would a thief do that? I imagine they'd want to leave as quickly as possible so they'd just put the lid down, remove any USB devices, and go.

Timothee
iAlertU does that for Macs: http://ialertu.sourceforge.net/

It uses the accelerometers that the MacBooks already have (for the hard-drive protection)

However, I'm not sure what happens if you close down the lid, let the computer go to sleep and pack it up.

philh
Put a speaker and battery in the USB device itself. If it loses power, it can still warble. You might need to make it bigger if you want a sufficiently loud sound though (I don't know much about the physics of noise-making).
AmitinLA
Kensington Microsaver Security Cable (http://amzn.to/bkV7Jd). Coils neatly for easy backpack storage. I work almost every day out of coffeeshops and lock it to a chair and will walk away for sometimes an hour at a time with absolutely no trouble. Someone will either have to spend 10+ minutes sawing through it or try to steal a chair, which most people will notice.
noodle
i either get someone to watch my stuff, or i take it with me. as it was already mentioned, it isn't about $, its about the hassle of losing documents and time.

if someone wants to steal my laptop, they're going to do it. if someone is tech savvy enough, they probably won't get caught.

arikb
I have a large, quite unique and difficult to remove sticker on its back. I don't need to be the most secure, only more secure than other people around me.

Oh and I don't leave my laptop unattended for more than a few seconds at a time. That helps too.

protomyth
Stickers are good. The lifetime NRA member sticker generally does a good job. :)
natch
I carry a light cloth two-strap bag inside my backpack. It can be worn just like a backpack, but it crunches into about the size of a tennis ball when not being used. It's very quick to stick the laptop in the bag without fussing with any of my other stuff. Putting the laptop in the backpack is a more involved process - have to wait for it to sleep, talk to the person who points out to me that I forgot my cord (I didn't), negotiate with the person who comes and takes my seat that I was still using, etc., etc.
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