I switched to Firefox on my personal laptop. I'm always a little nervous about rendering gotchas so I use chrome on my work laptop. I'm pretty happy with firefox as all the ad-blocking I already use is built in and I've always been weary about what Google is collecting from the browser as a whole.
Reporting is one thing, but getting things actually fixed is proving difficult even if you're very precise in pointing out problems. See VSYNC bugs for example: http://www.vsynctester.com/firefoxisbroken.html
I disagree on the "as fast as Chrome" part, in my synthetic (and unofficial) uibench test, Chrome is still faster than Firefox Quantum by a certain margin. (However I only did React and Preact test, other vdom engines are not tested)
I have an 8 cores, 16 threads Xeon E5-2660 CPU and 16 GB of RAM. And Quantum is behind Chrome. Maybe it's an issue on Windows 10 I don't know?
I switched from Chrome to Firefox on iOS. Firefox is significantly better there. I also switched to Outlook on iOS from GMail which is also significantly better. It wasn't speed. Ads are annoying and they're especially annoying on a 4" iPhone SE.
I haven't switched to Firefox on OSX yet. Chrome + adblock extensions on OSX is pretty good and it hasn't given me a reason to abandon it there. But Chrome+GMail on iOS gave me plenty of reasons.
Well you have to be better than Chrome, otherwise why switch? I am a diehard Firefox user, but if all you care for is speed then there is no reason to switch until Firefox surpasses Chrome. There are transition costs.
For me one killer feature Firefox has is container tabs.
True. I switched from Firefox to Chrome when Firefox stopped working. Literally - it would freeze and make me reboot my PC. Not gonna switch back as long as Chrome works.
Try it :) For me, Ctrl+S on Chrome on most sites hangs up the browser for few seconds, even into minutes before it shows the File Save popup. And most of the times, I do Ctrl+S by mistake out of habit has that binding is for searching in Emacs.
Not sure why Chrome takes minutes to present the File Save popup, but that action is instant on Firefox.
I'm eagerly waiting the ability to associate a bookmark with a given container, especially when opening multiple bookmarks at once. Apparently it'll arrive in v59.
>Well you have to be better than Chrome, otherwise why switch?
This is such a killer point I wish I could give you ten upvotes. I tried the new Firefox, was immediately impressed by its speed, Tweeted about it and thanked them, and then I continued using Chrome.
Makes sense why Microsoft was hit with IE anti-trust issues. Inertia exists in software.
This is a bit like saying you're not going to try OS X because OS 9 was slow and buggy. The code that made your pages stutter is probably not even in the repo anymore.
No, it's a bit like saying I'm not buying a mac again because I've bought one every year for the last 10 years and they were all crap. Seems reasonable to me.
I get your point. I was in the same boat. But whenever you try Firefox next you're going to be pleasantly surprised. The version 57 update has transformed it into something completely new. The frame drops during normal browsing and scrolling are completely gone. That used to be my number one complaint too. Firefox made my $2500 ultrabook feel like a fucking Chromebook.
The internet didn't open borders or create the happy place of free expression we were promised. It was consolidated by a few big companies who control it all. We're at the end game now. It's mostly a place of siloing, monitoring, censorship, and conditioning.
DRM. Licensing. The W3C caved. FF ceded control to the bad guys. I'm sorry Dave, I can't allow you to watch that video on this device.
Yeah, the internet is over. The original vision is long gone. FF is one of them too now.
I care. It seems that bleeding edge changes to Chrome are breaking things. Example: I use the Chase Bank website. Parts of it stopped working with Chrome.
I'm back to using Firefox now.
*Edit: Someone downvoted this? What is this, reddit?
>It seems that bleeding edge changes to Chrome are breaking things
Breaking changes are an expected cost of being on the bleeding edge of something.
The Canary (chrome) website[1] literally opens with the following disclaimer:
Get on the bleeding edge of the web
Google Chrome Canary has the newest of the new Chrome features.
Be forewarned: it's designed for developers and early adopters, and can sometimes break down completely.
Well, I personally switch to Firefox Quantum on all machines that I'm using.
It simply provides a smoother, faster experience than other browsers (on the websites that I use, at least), especially so on older platforms.
I didn't like FF before the update. My all-time favorite browser is Opera 12, but it doesn't work (or grinds to a halt) on many websites now, and its closest relatives (Chropera and Vivaldi) don't offer that much on Chrome. I tried Edge, too, but both Edge and Chrome are too resource-hungry for the 2008 machine I have at home. "Too many open tabs" wasn't a big problem in the dial-up days, and I feel like it shouldn't be today, with supposedly much better tech.
So far I don't have much to complain about the new FF; obviously, the extensions are not there yet, but I don't rely on these anyway. All in all, I switched to FF for technical reasons more so than moral ones (each year, it feels more and more dirty to be enveloped in the "unevil" ecosystem, but that's a separate issue).
Hope this addresses the questions that some might have before trying it for themselves.
Firefox surely feels pretty fast at loading and rendering content now, but it still lacks in start-up time. From clicking on the icon in my taskbar to a window showing up, Chrome still beats Firefox on Win10, and I close and open windows enough times in a day that this matters to me.
As to the point of the article, I think it is a lost cause to convince users to try a different browser merely because it is backed by a company motivated by better morals. The Chrome team doesn't appear evil enough for it to matter, and it still puts in excellent work. They make some heavily contested decisions every now and then, but so far it has not affected my experience on the websites that I use daily.
I like trying out Firefox every now and then, and on every fresh OS install, I will install Firefox along with Chrome. However I always go back to Chrome because of some silly detail. Today, it's because of its start-up time.
Firefox Quantum is almost perfect except occasionally something pegs it to 100% CPU making it unresponsive on a lower power laptop. I'm disappointed when Google Hangouts reminds me that they have not made it work with anything not-Chrome and I have to start it up.
> Firefox [...] functions as a meritocracy (a.k.a. videogame).
Uhh what? A meritocracy is an organizational structure where you can rule if your ideas are good, not just if you are the boss or the owner or if you are rich.
I don’t see how that is related to video games.
It kind of makes sense to let the people that are best at something do something.
I tried the new Firefox and it is very fast, at least for some things. I'm working on a side project that really taxes the browser so I occasionally will test on the other browsers. The old firefox was very slow for my UI where I would drag things around. Now it is very nice. Maybe better than Chrome. But I do have a few problems. This is too bad because all things being equal I would prefer to use Firefox. So the problems...
First of all I am working on a windows machine. The standard UI elements on Firefox are incredibly ugly, as in they look like something from a java application 15 years ago. That is enough reason for me not to use it. Edge looks the best and Chrome is only very slightly behind.
Secondly, the project I am doing is a sort of programming environment. The debugger on Firefox is not working right for some reason. I am debugging dynamic code (as in code that is not loaded from a source file but instead entered by the browser user). So when I when I tried using Firefox I quit becauseI couldn't debug the code I was writing in the app.
The last reason I don't want to use it may not be a great on but I'll say it anyway - the rendering is a little different between Chrome and Firefox. That maybe Chrome's fault. I think I fixed most cases in my app, but I still have errors of a few pixels. In my particular case I am probably going to target Electron also (or even exclusively) so it makes sense to work more in Chrome.
Just to add some additional info, Edge works really well. In most cases it uses render rules more like Firefox, which is what makes me thing Chrome is the problem there. The main problem I have with Edge is that it works really well until it crashes. I can really tax the browser if I am working with a lot of data and Edge seems to die the fastest.
My main conclusion is that the Firefox team did some great things, but it is going to take more work to really get it to be an all around better or even equal browser. That will be a tough task but I would like to see them do that.
>First of all I am working on a windows machine. The standard UI elements on Firefox are incredibly ugly, as in they look like something from a java application 15 years ago.
Perhaps you are using a version of Windows from 10 years ago?
It just isn't the case on Windows 10 - looks great (it uses the system UI elements).
>Secondly ... the debugger on Firefox is not working right for some reason.
You mean the debugger in the web-based programming environment that you are developing on is not working in Firefox? Is that a fault of the browser?
>The last reason: the rendering is a little different between Chrome and Firefox.
>My main conclusion is that ... it is going to take more work to really get it to be an all around better or even equal browser.
One of your criteria is that Firefox has to be literally Chrome in the way it renders things. I don't think you'll ever be satisfied with it (unless you change your mind).
It's already a better browser for my use case: leaner, faster, and has Reader View button in the UI out of the box, which is great in general, but more so if I'm at work.
Thanks for sharing your experience, though! I hope that you project ends up working fine in FF as well :)
Sorry, but I care. I switch all my browsing to firefox now. I use chrome occasionally due to some extension that help me transfer information between laptop and my mobile, which I didnt see yet replacement on firefox extension, nor the creator will port the extension to firefox.
There is still something that firefox quantum needs to improve, the new extension support (either they provide backward API equivalent, or more complete API)
I really missed the old opera, fast, lean and many features (bloated or not bloated, that is just preference, IMO)
Are you trying to find that within the app or by right clicking a shortcut on a desktop/search result in your OS? I've never heard of someone expecting that option to be available from within the application. And even so, that seems like an absurd thing to cause you to throw your hands up and say to hell with the rest of it.
No, this is in the menu bar of OSX that shows [File, Edit, View...] of which should embed an item that says "Open Location...". It is there for Safari and Chrome. This isn't just any item, it allows quick access to the omnibar. As it is, it defaults to command+L and I want to map that.
It is part of the application and it use to be there. The fact it regressed in feature is unfortunate but more so the shortcut allows me to perform quicksearch on the omnibar which is actually very important to have. (Instead of using the mouse to click on it). Just because you have never heard of someone using it, please don't downplay its importance to others. It can be a make or break feature.
I care. I use Firefox for all my browsing now. Haven't come across anything it can't do. The extensions actually seem better and more diverse than chrome. I actually prefer the UI to chrome also.
54 comments
[ 3.8 ms ] story [ 118 ms ] threadChrome has the same issues when it was first released.
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/websites-look-wrong-or-...
I have an 8 cores, 16 threads Xeon E5-2660 CPU and 16 GB of RAM. And Quantum is behind Chrome. Maybe it's an issue on Windows 10 I don't know?
I haven't switched to Firefox on OSX yet. Chrome + adblock extensions on OSX is pretty good and it hasn't given me a reason to abandon it there. But Chrome+GMail on iOS gave me plenty of reasons.
For me one killer feature Firefox has is container tabs.
Not sure why Chrome takes minutes to present the File Save popup, but that action is instant on Firefox.
This is such a killer point I wish I could give you ten upvotes. I tried the new Firefox, was immediately impressed by its speed, Tweeted about it and thanked them, and then I continued using Chrome.
Makes sense why Microsoft was hit with IE anti-trust issues. Inertia exists in software.
The internet didn't open borders or create the happy place of free expression we were promised. It was consolidated by a few big companies who control it all. We're at the end game now. It's mostly a place of siloing, monitoring, censorship, and conditioning.
DRM. Licensing. The W3C caved. FF ceded control to the bad guys. I'm sorry Dave, I can't allow you to watch that video on this device.
Yeah, the internet is over. The original vision is long gone. FF is one of them too now.
The web may not be perfect but there is nothing else like it.
I'm back to using Firefox now.
*Edit: Someone downvoted this? What is this, reddit?
Breaking changes are an expected cost of being on the bleeding edge of something.
The Canary (chrome) website[1] literally opens with the following disclaimer:
Get on the bleeding edge of the web Google Chrome Canary has the newest of the new Chrome features. Be forewarned: it's designed for developers and early adopters, and can sometimes break down completely.
Caveat emptor.
[1] https://www.google.com/chrome/browser/canary.html
It simply provides a smoother, faster experience than other browsers (on the websites that I use, at least), especially so on older platforms.
I didn't like FF before the update. My all-time favorite browser is Opera 12, but it doesn't work (or grinds to a halt) on many websites now, and its closest relatives (Chropera and Vivaldi) don't offer that much on Chrome. I tried Edge, too, but both Edge and Chrome are too resource-hungry for the 2008 machine I have at home. "Too many open tabs" wasn't a big problem in the dial-up days, and I feel like it shouldn't be today, with supposedly much better tech.
So far I don't have much to complain about the new FF; obviously, the extensions are not there yet, but I don't rely on these anyway. All in all, I switched to FF for technical reasons more so than moral ones (each year, it feels more and more dirty to be enveloped in the "unevil" ecosystem, but that's a separate issue).
Hope this addresses the questions that some might have before trying it for themselves.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/NetCaptor
Dial-up was still going strong in the year 2K, I only got aDSL in 2003-2004.
As to the point of the article, I think it is a lost cause to convince users to try a different browser merely because it is backed by a company motivated by better morals. The Chrome team doesn't appear evil enough for it to matter, and it still puts in excellent work. They make some heavily contested decisions every now and then, but so far it has not affected my experience on the websites that I use daily.
I like trying out Firefox every now and then, and on every fresh OS install, I will install Firefox along with Chrome. However I always go back to Chrome because of some silly detail. Today, it's because of its start-up time.
Uhh what? A meritocracy is an organizational structure where you can rule if your ideas are good, not just if you are the boss or the owner or if you are rich.
I don’t see how that is related to video games.
It kind of makes sense to let the people that are best at something do something.
First of all I am working on a windows machine. The standard UI elements on Firefox are incredibly ugly, as in they look like something from a java application 15 years ago. That is enough reason for me not to use it. Edge looks the best and Chrome is only very slightly behind.
Secondly, the project I am doing is a sort of programming environment. The debugger on Firefox is not working right for some reason. I am debugging dynamic code (as in code that is not loaded from a source file but instead entered by the browser user). So when I when I tried using Firefox I quit becauseI couldn't debug the code I was writing in the app.
The last reason I don't want to use it may not be a great on but I'll say it anyway - the rendering is a little different between Chrome and Firefox. That maybe Chrome's fault. I think I fixed most cases in my app, but I still have errors of a few pixels. In my particular case I am probably going to target Electron also (or even exclusively) so it makes sense to work more in Chrome.
Just to add some additional info, Edge works really well. In most cases it uses render rules more like Firefox, which is what makes me thing Chrome is the problem there. The main problem I have with Edge is that it works really well until it crashes. I can really tax the browser if I am working with a lot of data and Edge seems to die the fastest.
My main conclusion is that the Firefox team did some great things, but it is going to take more work to really get it to be an all around better or even equal browser. That will be a tough task but I would like to see them do that.
Perhaps you are using a version of Windows from 10 years ago?
It just isn't the case on Windows 10 - looks great (it uses the system UI elements).
>Secondly ... the debugger on Firefox is not working right for some reason.
You mean the debugger in the web-based programming environment that you are developing on is not working in Firefox? Is that a fault of the browser?
>The last reason: the rendering is a little different between Chrome and Firefox.
>My main conclusion is that ... it is going to take more work to really get it to be an all around better or even equal browser.
One of your criteria is that Firefox has to be literally Chrome in the way it renders things. I don't think you'll ever be satisfied with it (unless you change your mind).
It's already a better browser for my use case: leaner, faster, and has Reader View button in the UI out of the box, which is great in general, but more so if I'm at work.
Thanks for sharing your experience, though! I hope that you project ends up working fine in FF as well :)
There is still something that firefox quantum needs to improve, the new extension support (either they provide backward API equivalent, or more complete API)
I really missed the old opera, fast, lean and many features (bloated or not bloated, that is just preference, IMO)
I'm looking for "Open Location..." so I can bind it to some shortcut but I can't even find it anywhere. What's up with that.
It is part of the application and it use to be there. The fact it regressed in feature is unfortunate but more so the shortcut allows me to perform quicksearch on the omnibar which is actually very important to have. (Instead of using the mouse to click on it). Just because you have never heard of someone using it, please don't downplay its importance to others. It can be a make or break feature.
I only use chrome for web development now
Chrome is not open source.
Yes they use the same render engine but nowadays the browser is more than simply rendering html and executing Javascript .