"Fake it till you make it" is usually applied to situations other than the one he describes. If you're already an employee on some project, working on a team that you trust and work well with, then sure, just ask your peers how to do it. At that point, you've already "made it".
"Fake it till you make it" usually applies to "how do you get to that point?" If you're a fresh college grad with no particular accomplishments to your name, how do you convince people that they should invest time and energy teaching you the ropes so that you're even qualified to work on a team with peers who you can ask for help? Because the default answer when a stranger asks to pick your brain to get into a hot, highly-competitive field is usually "Yeah, sure, maybe when I get around to it", if you get an answer at all. And if you're asking for a job, where they pay you money, then unless you've carefully chosen a field where they're desperate for people regardless of your prior background, you're going to have a tough time demonstrating value without at least some form of "faking it", even if that's just networking politely, cold-calling, and doing some basic research on the companies you're applying to.
> "faking it", even if that's just networking politely, cold-calling, and doing some basic research on the companies you're applying to.
That's definitely not faking in any sense of the word!
Well, I've really heard it three ways. "Fake it till you make it," can mean any of:
- Slightly untrue positive thinking will help you build up enough confidence to get started.
- Present yourself to other people with the confidence of someone who's already done what you want to convince them you can do.
- Falsify your qualifications and dodge questions about what you've done in the past, don't worry it never catches up with you.
I think 1. can work for some people, 2. works for essentially anyone in every situation, and 3. is very, very false.
3 can work - I've seen a lot of people who get ahead, at least temporarily, by blatantly exaggerating their contributions and competency. It's taking a big risk, though, more than I'd be comfortable with in my own professional life, and these people often flame out spectacularly when it catches up with them.
You know to be honest, even in your second scenario, I've found more success approaching others with the stance that you are a young, energetic, and driven student who has the potential to learn, willing to listen to the advice of the experienced, and an admittance to your own lack of concrete knowledge.
For some particular case examples, "Faking it Till You Make It" may work better, but overall, the work relationships that are generated from being authentic tend to be more genuine and overall the other person seems more invested in your general learning and growth.
I dunno. I've encountered a few students who approach it like you say - they are young, energetic, driven, polite, humble, and don't exaggerate their qualifications. They are delightful to talk to, and I've really pulled for the few I've met, to the point of writing a job referral to Google (I worked there at the time) for one young woman who cold-emailed me over the alumni network.
When I look them up on LinkedIn, though, the actual positions they end up in never seem to be as impressive or lucrative as the folks who say "You're looking for a CTO? Sure, I'm 24 and I got a couple years of experience in React and microservices, I'll totally do the job for you." Some of this may be information bias, i.e. the people who are willing to exaggerate their qualifications to get a job are far more likely to keep exaggerating their qualifications on LinkedIn. But I'd also be wary of the opposite cognitive bias, the just-world fallacy, where we'd like to believe that nice & honest people get ahead and so discount examples of blatant bad behavior getting ahead with a confident "They'll get their come-uppance later."
'Fake it til you make it' is about getting access to opportunities you wouldn't generally have otherwise. It's not a learning strategy, so it's not surprising that it's not an effective learning strategy.
> I never liked this quote because it implies being something that you are not, which leads to disingenuous behaviour.
I've always liked the quote, but I've also interpreted it differently than the author has. Rather than "pretend to be what you are not", I view it more like, "to be what you want, start being what you want and stick to it".
That is, start doing the things that it requires. Commit to it - these are the things you do when you're alone as well as when others can see. Let it guide your decisions - you're changing yourself, and that takes a lot of conscious effort at first.
I consider that as 'faking it' because it feels unnatural - the new behaviors feel like you're putting on act. As time goes on, this changes. Until one day, you realize that you've integrated that thing you wanted to be into who you actually are. [Or so it has worked out for me in cases that I've done it and stuck with it...]
I like it too. If you want to be a runner, act like a runner. To me this means, dress like a runner, eat like a runner, and get out of bed and run every day like a runner. When your are educated about what it takes to do something and you match those behaviors, you will be well on your way to being exactly that... And when you are actually doing those behaviors, there isn't any more pretending.
But that's actually a bad idea in many cases. If a severely out of shape person decides to act like a runner by running everyday, he is very likely to hurt himself relatively quickly or need physical therapy, especially if he is overweight.
Ah I see, from this angle I can understand - the unnaturalness of new conscious behavioural changes. But overall, that is just discomfort. If you have internalized the values and your actions align with those values, I still do not view it as "faking" it per say.
When learning how to swim for the first time, it may feel unnatural. But you are not faking it. You are trying something new, and you have the chance of failure (the source of the discomfort, possibly?) - but you are being true to the task at hand
Swimming is something you do. "A swimmer" is someone you are. A swimmer swims. If you can't already swim, you learn how to. But when you can swim, you aren't necessarily a swimmer yet.
I don't think it's about some particular skill, but more about an identity. Taking on a new identity might involve learning some new skills, but those are just the prerequisites to even successfully "faking it".
Put another way, it's more about establishing patterns of behavior. You start off making decisions consciously, and maybe even with difficulty, like "I'm going to get up at 6am, warm up, and swim 10 laps". And "I'm switching my diet to complement my new exercise routine". They'll start out feeling novel, like they're someone else's actions. Then eventually, they'll be your norm. They'll still take effort, but of course you'll make the effort, because "this is just what I do".
Sometimes it feels like faking it, though. Especially during the preparatory rituals; I've felt a bit like Ron Obvious running around on the beach: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ra5h17EbC8
I think your interpretation of this quote is of a much higher level of logic and intelligence than the majority. I've been around more people than I can count that live by this quote, and all they do is act snobby to rude to people because that's how they think successful people act.
The interpretation here is the most dangerous part of the "fake it 'til you make it" mindset.
Those people have faked being snobby and rude until it was the truth. "Fake it until you make it" worked for them too, they just set their goal at being a douchebag.
I'm with the grandparent comment. "Fake it until you make it" is simply a way to deal with impostor syndrome.
Unfortunately, it seems like people with imposter syndrome are a far less likely to execute than the ones with the goal of being a douche bag. But, I do appreciate this interpretation as well.
Its like "learn by doing", except that applies more to actual skills. I guess fake it till you make it does too, but I hear it in reference to more abstract things like dedication and personal improvement.
How you talk changes how you think. I’ve reinvented myself multiple times. I highly recommend it.
From article:
”I never liked this quote because it implies being something that you are not, which leads to disingenuous behaviour.”
Some of us don’t like who we are. Some of us want to change. Need to change. And sometimes just want try on a new pair of shoes.
I’ve posted comments before about how I mitigated my anger management problem(s) (abused as a child) and anxiety (chronic life threatening illnesses) by changing my language, my expectations, my habits, my monkey sphere roster.
Works great. Each reboot takes about three years.
The scary part is that most don’t remember changing. This is how propaganda works. Maybe cult indoctrination too (I believe, but cannnot prove).
Sure, the power to change can be used for good or evil. And yet, choosing to be self-actualized is kinda awesome.
I find this very interesting! In addition to your comment history (which I will dig through), are there any useful resources/tips/guides you would suggest?
My journey started with "When Anger Hurts" http://a.co/6rE8whC TL;DR: Anger starts with expectations. To stop being angry, change your expectations. Worked great. Then I got stuck on changing my habits. I'd say (at best) I was "unangry". Which I decided wasn't good enough.
Knowing that we can't unlearn habit, only replace them, I decided to pretend to be happy. A really big step for me, because I was of the belief that happy people were simple. But I was out of ideas. So I just started saying every thing was great, saying positive things about everything, etc. Initially, it was mostly sarcastic. Imagine my surprised when 3 years later I woke up feeling happy and ready to conquer the world. When did that happen!? The change was so gradual, I didn't even notice.
Years later, I picked up "How the Way We Talk Can Change the Way We Work" http://a.co/gbBOkW1 which confirmed my personal experience with data, research. Much more has been written since, natch.
I learned the bit about people not remembering changing their minds from Swarm Intelligence http://a.co/egfqiON [2001] Of course, a lot more has been written since, like Democracy for Realists http://a.co/99XlVaB and everyone now noticing that Trump supporters have completely (and unknowingly) reversed their positions to conform.
Article is bad. But random thought: Fake it 'til you make it is a prime driver of wage differences between men and women. Many women I personally know have refused promotions and job offers because they don't feel ready, then complain that unfit men get the job. As if it's a mystery what happened.
This also goes for young people. Sometimes getting in over your head and failing is a totally positive opportunity. Imagine if you could get hired somewhere above your level at Google for just one month, and how much you could learn there. Then you can take all that knowledge to your next job. Plus your resume says Google on it. For a lot of people fresh out of college, that would be a big plus.
Don't be stupid, arrogance isn't helpful when it's something crucial like health care or safety inspections or your own education. But if it's a chance to make a few more bucks at your job, default to always take the chance when it's offered. Fortune favors the bold, and such.
This is a ridiculous thing to write a blog post about. The point of the saying is to mean "Try new things with fake confidence until you have attained enough mastery to have real confidence."
As with life, the saying works great for some things, but not so great for other things. If you want to be a comedian, some times it's better to just go up on stage and pretend you've already mastered it, until you do eventually become a master. Self-doubt will kill you, so fake yourself out and just go for it until you're actually good.
If you want to be a doctor, then obviously it doesn't work as well.
It was alright advice back in the day of factories where jobs generally fell into one of two camps... either you worked the production line with mindless repetitive labor, or you worked the office side which was just a contest of extroverted bullshit. Nowhere was it important for anyone to actually know anything. Worst case scenario is a quota slips by a bit.
And everything was built based upon that being the dominant economic form of every company. Almost every single aspect of how modern companies are organized and work was designed to facilitate that factory mindset and we don't seem prepared to revisit it any time soon. The fact that now the assembly line is gone and the office has consumed it all and the only thing that matters at all is people knowing the right thing, making good judgments that can never be captured by a 'standard operating procedure', etc, doesn't seem to bother those in a position to do anything about it.
> Dana Carney, the lead author of the original article, issued a statement in 2016 abandoning the theory: "I do not believe that 'power pose effects' are real..."
Capable people suffer from imposter syndrome, inhibiting them from trying something new or difficult, or afraid of trying things they aren't god at yet. In this case "Fake it till you make it" is great advice.
A different set of people may suffer from Dunning Kruger effect or delusions of grandeur, in which case it could be terrible advice.
If you need a job & can't get a job interview without portraying your experience in a way that makes you sound more established than you are, how else are you supposed to survive? You have to tell people what they want to hear to get noticed, and sometimes that means faking it.
Example: "I have worked with Java for 5 years." Does the interviewer need to know you touched Java once a year for 15 minutes 5 years in a row? You're not lying, and it's up to the interviewer to call you on your exaggeration.
You gotta do what you gotta do to survive, and that's the way it is. That being said, I hate faking it, and I work hard to graduate to not faking it as fast as I can. But I would never be mad at someone for faking it. Outright lying I have zero tolerance for, but faking it is just fine.
I feel like a lot of my managers throughout my career have been taking the fake it til you make it approach. I guess they've"made it" but they're still faking it in terms of having zero technical competency to manage projects
My interpretation is that it's more like the behavioral equivalent of "dress for the job you want" rather than being unethical. Always being open to learning new things, and being confident in your ability to overcome challenges.
There's a different phrase that I think makes more sense: "Act As If".
People suffering from and trying to overcome Impostor Syndrome (the feeling that even though you are doing good work and have made some big accomplishments that you’re really an “impostor” at your job and people are going find out) are somewhat endemic to startup and tech circles.
I think most of this is brought on by the rapidly changing toolsets, frameworks and technologies that you need to grapple with to put out a modern web app. (see:
http://html9responsiveboilerstrapjs.com/)
So, it was pretty surprising that the best advice that I’ve heard on the subject comes from Conan O’Brien.
“In improvisational acting there is this great rule that I’ve used in my life: ‘Act As If’. Act as if this is completely normal. Of course I’m supposed to be interviewing Barack Obama. Of course I’m supposed to be playing guitar with Bruce Springsteen and of course there’s a big part of me inside that’s saying: ‘What are you talking about?’”
From “Conan O’Brien Can’t Stop” — 21:00
The best entrepreneurs that I’ve worked with have (without naming it) exhibited this same pattern.
1. Recognize privately and intellectually that some big crazy thing is about to happen: a key investor meeting, a sales call to a big new client or interview with a major publication.
2. Do the hard work of preparing and making sure their product and facts are all in line.
3. Execute through their fears and anxieties by “acting as if” in public.
Nothing is a cure all, but it is surprising how much even a simple phrase repeated to yourself can help.
Mhm.. you all work too much, or not enough.. still on fence.
It's a motivational concept, a personal reinforcement of a goal you've set for yourself, slang for dropping in. You'll get hit but you want to get hit. You want this.
I always read this as meaning "if you want to do something that's uncomfortable for you, force yourself to do it — perform the actions mechanically — until it does become comfortable".
I think the OP is taking the phrase too literally. "Faking it" is a tongue-in-cheek expression to describe putting in tangible effort towards becoming the person you want to be.
I have to agree with the post. By faking it I'm limiting myself to learn from the first-hand experience only, you have no difference from the first person ever tried what you're trying to do. By asking/searching something you don't know, you are benefiting from a collected experience. Sapiens had the cognitive revolution, found out how to write and pass the information to other generations. Not using any of these tools available to me seems a bit going back in evolution, especially in an age where information is shared freely. Sure it would provide short-term gains and you may not take as long as the first person ever did but can I gain all the experience of lots of professionals working in CS gained in decades? How long will it take for me to reach a level of engineering by today's standards?
This is a misunderstanding. The point of the quote is to get over imposter syndrome basically. It's about the fact that people actually perform better when they have some confidence. It's not actually used to suggest things like a quack acting as a doctor or anything truly dishonest.
To be clear, the point in the article is still right: we actually will be less confident and have all sorts of problems when there's false pretenses. It is good to be honest and say things like "This is my first time doing this". We come across better and can actually be more confident without the pretense.
"Fake it til you make it" in the end is as useful as "better to ask forgiveness than permission". Anyone just accepting this as good advice for whatever situation without other good judgment is a careless imbecile.
50 comments
[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 99.2 ms ] thread"Fake it till you make it" usually applies to "how do you get to that point?" If you're a fresh college grad with no particular accomplishments to your name, how do you convince people that they should invest time and energy teaching you the ropes so that you're even qualified to work on a team with peers who you can ask for help? Because the default answer when a stranger asks to pick your brain to get into a hot, highly-competitive field is usually "Yeah, sure, maybe when I get around to it", if you get an answer at all. And if you're asking for a job, where they pay you money, then unless you've carefully chosen a field where they're desperate for people regardless of your prior background, you're going to have a tough time demonstrating value without at least some form of "faking it", even if that's just networking politely, cold-calling, and doing some basic research on the companies you're applying to.
That's definitely not faking in any sense of the word!
Well, I've really heard it three ways. "Fake it till you make it," can mean any of: - Slightly untrue positive thinking will help you build up enough confidence to get started. - Present yourself to other people with the confidence of someone who's already done what you want to convince them you can do. - Falsify your qualifications and dodge questions about what you've done in the past, don't worry it never catches up with you.
I think 1. can work for some people, 2. works for essentially anyone in every situation, and 3. is very, very false.
3 can work - I've seen a lot of people who get ahead, at least temporarily, by blatantly exaggerating their contributions and competency. It's taking a big risk, though, more than I'd be comfortable with in my own professional life, and these people often flame out spectacularly when it catches up with them.
For some particular case examples, "Faking it Till You Make It" may work better, but overall, the work relationships that are generated from being authentic tend to be more genuine and overall the other person seems more invested in your general learning and growth.
When I look them up on LinkedIn, though, the actual positions they end up in never seem to be as impressive or lucrative as the folks who say "You're looking for a CTO? Sure, I'm 24 and I got a couple years of experience in React and microservices, I'll totally do the job for you." Some of this may be information bias, i.e. the people who are willing to exaggerate their qualifications to get a job are far more likely to keep exaggerating their qualifications on LinkedIn. But I'd also be wary of the opposite cognitive bias, the just-world fallacy, where we'd like to believe that nice & honest people get ahead and so discount examples of blatant bad behavior getting ahead with a confident "They'll get their come-uppance later."
'Fake it til you make it' is about getting access to opportunities you wouldn't generally have otherwise. It's not a learning strategy, so it's not surprising that it's not an effective learning strategy.
Your either gonna fake it and make it, or walk away from the computer.
My so was surprised to here I "fake" my job... self thought tinkerer since my teens! Luckily I picked up a degree to prop my cv.
But I'm still dev'ing like it is the teen days... maybe with a bit of git, ci, and devops sprinkled in between.
I've always liked the quote, but I've also interpreted it differently than the author has. Rather than "pretend to be what you are not", I view it more like, "to be what you want, start being what you want and stick to it".
That is, start doing the things that it requires. Commit to it - these are the things you do when you're alone as well as when others can see. Let it guide your decisions - you're changing yourself, and that takes a lot of conscious effort at first.
I consider that as 'faking it' because it feels unnatural - the new behaviors feel like you're putting on act. As time goes on, this changes. Until one day, you realize that you've integrated that thing you wanted to be into who you actually are. [Or so it has worked out for me in cases that I've done it and stuck with it...]
When learning how to swim for the first time, it may feel unnatural. But you are not faking it. You are trying something new, and you have the chance of failure (the source of the discomfort, possibly?) - but you are being true to the task at hand
I don't think it's about some particular skill, but more about an identity. Taking on a new identity might involve learning some new skills, but those are just the prerequisites to even successfully "faking it".
Put another way, it's more about establishing patterns of behavior. You start off making decisions consciously, and maybe even with difficulty, like "I'm going to get up at 6am, warm up, and swim 10 laps". And "I'm switching my diet to complement my new exercise routine". They'll start out feeling novel, like they're someone else's actions. Then eventually, they'll be your norm. They'll still take effort, but of course you'll make the effort, because "this is just what I do".
The interpretation here is the most dangerous part of the "fake it 'til you make it" mindset.
I'm with the grandparent comment. "Fake it until you make it" is simply a way to deal with impostor syndrome.
From article:
”I never liked this quote because it implies being something that you are not, which leads to disingenuous behaviour.”
Some of us don’t like who we are. Some of us want to change. Need to change. And sometimes just want try on a new pair of shoes.
I’ve posted comments before about how I mitigated my anger management problem(s) (abused as a child) and anxiety (chronic life threatening illnesses) by changing my language, my expectations, my habits, my monkey sphere roster.
Works great. Each reboot takes about three years.
The scary part is that most don’t remember changing. This is how propaganda works. Maybe cult indoctrination too (I believe, but cannnot prove).
Sure, the power to change can be used for good or evil. And yet, choosing to be self-actualized is kinda awesome.
My journey started with "When Anger Hurts" http://a.co/6rE8whC TL;DR: Anger starts with expectations. To stop being angry, change your expectations. Worked great. Then I got stuck on changing my habits. I'd say (at best) I was "unangry". Which I decided wasn't good enough.
Knowing that we can't unlearn habit, only replace them, I decided to pretend to be happy. A really big step for me, because I was of the belief that happy people were simple. But I was out of ideas. So I just started saying every thing was great, saying positive things about everything, etc. Initially, it was mostly sarcastic. Imagine my surprised when 3 years later I woke up feeling happy and ready to conquer the world. When did that happen!? The change was so gradual, I didn't even notice.
Years later, I picked up "How the Way We Talk Can Change the Way We Work" http://a.co/gbBOkW1 which confirmed my personal experience with data, research. Much more has been written since, natch.
I learned the bit about people not remembering changing their minds from Swarm Intelligence http://a.co/egfqiON [2001] Of course, a lot more has been written since, like Democracy for Realists http://a.co/99XlVaB and everyone now noticing that Trump supporters have completely (and unknowingly) reversed their positions to conform.
This also goes for young people. Sometimes getting in over your head and failing is a totally positive opportunity. Imagine if you could get hired somewhere above your level at Google for just one month, and how much you could learn there. Then you can take all that knowledge to your next job. Plus your resume says Google on it. For a lot of people fresh out of college, that would be a big plus.
Don't be stupid, arrogance isn't helpful when it's something crucial like health care or safety inspections or your own education. But if it's a chance to make a few more bucks at your job, default to always take the chance when it's offered. Fortune favors the bold, and such.
its a positive mind set.
A couple of other ones: -Dont strike when the irons hot but make the iron hot by striking. -Law of Attraction
guys, comeone , this is hacker news ... can you get a point simple point with out over complicating it.
We are supposed to be good engineers here, we are over engineering this idea
As with life, the saying works great for some things, but not so great for other things. If you want to be a comedian, some times it's better to just go up on stage and pretend you've already mastered it, until you do eventually become a master. Self-doubt will kill you, so fake yourself out and just go for it until you're actually good.
If you want to be a doctor, then obviously it doesn't work as well.
This just in : the sky is blue
And everything was built based upon that being the dominant economic form of every company. Almost every single aspect of how modern companies are organized and work was designed to facilitate that factory mindset and we don't seem prepared to revisit it any time soon. The fact that now the assembly line is gone and the office has consumed it all and the only thing that matters at all is people knowing the right thing, making good judgments that can never be captured by a 'standard operating procedure', etc, doesn't seem to bother those in a position to do anything about it.
Interesting article supporting the idea, but changing the saying to, "Fake it until you become it".
> Dana Carney, the lead author of the original article, issued a statement in 2016 abandoning the theory: "I do not believe that 'power pose effects' are real..."
A different set of people may suffer from Dunning Kruger effect or delusions of grandeur, in which case it could be terrible advice.
If you need a job & can't get a job interview without portraying your experience in a way that makes you sound more established than you are, how else are you supposed to survive? You have to tell people what they want to hear to get noticed, and sometimes that means faking it.
Example: "I have worked with Java for 5 years." Does the interviewer need to know you touched Java once a year for 15 minutes 5 years in a row? You're not lying, and it's up to the interviewer to call you on your exaggeration.
You gotta do what you gotta do to survive, and that's the way it is. That being said, I hate faking it, and I work hard to graduate to not faking it as fast as I can. But I would never be mad at someone for faking it. Outright lying I have zero tolerance for, but faking it is just fine.
People suffering from and trying to overcome Impostor Syndrome (the feeling that even though you are doing good work and have made some big accomplishments that you’re really an “impostor” at your job and people are going find out) are somewhat endemic to startup and tech circles.
I think most of this is brought on by the rapidly changing toolsets, frameworks and technologies that you need to grapple with to put out a modern web app. (see: http://html9responsiveboilerstrapjs.com/)
So, it was pretty surprising that the best advice that I’ve heard on the subject comes from Conan O’Brien.
“In improvisational acting there is this great rule that I’ve used in my life: ‘Act As If’. Act as if this is completely normal. Of course I’m supposed to be interviewing Barack Obama. Of course I’m supposed to be playing guitar with Bruce Springsteen and of course there’s a big part of me inside that’s saying: ‘What are you talking about?’”
From “Conan O’Brien Can’t Stop” — 21:00
The best entrepreneurs that I’ve worked with have (without naming it) exhibited this same pattern.
1. Recognize privately and intellectually that some big crazy thing is about to happen: a key investor meeting, a sales call to a big new client or interview with a major publication.
2. Do the hard work of preparing and making sure their product and facts are all in line.
3. Execute through their fears and anxieties by “acting as if” in public.
Nothing is a cure all, but it is surprising how much even a simple phrase repeated to yourself can help.
It's a motivational concept, a personal reinforcement of a goal you've set for yourself, slang for dropping in. You'll get hit but you want to get hit. You want this.
Wanna be? Gotta be. Poke and go.
To be clear, the point in the article is still right: we actually will be less confident and have all sorts of problems when there's false pretenses. It is good to be honest and say things like "This is my first time doing this". We come across better and can actually be more confident without the pretense.
"Fake it til you make it" in the end is as useful as "better to ask forgiveness than permission". Anyone just accepting this as good advice for whatever situation without other good judgment is a careless imbecile.