The only times I've seen "rockstar" or "ninja" used to describe programmers is in job descriptions. People try to make an otherwise run-of-the-mill web dev job sound interesting by making it sound casual and fun.
I've actually never seen anyone on the internet calling themselves a 'rockstar' or 'ninja' in a software related context. They always call others 'rockstars' or 'ninja's'
Bob Geldof? Boomtown Rats to Deckchair.com
In the late 90s, when Bob encountered problems booking a family holiday over the Internet for his children and his French actress girlfriend Jeanne Marine, Geldof founded online travel agent Deckchair.com.
See: http://www.personallyspeaking.co.uk/sir_bob_geldof__147.html
I sneak into concerts dressed in all black, incapacitate the drummer with the hilt of my katana, and fill in during the solos using my nunchucks as drumsticks without anyone noticing the difference (except for the occasional "man, the drummer's more awesome than usual tonight" comment). May I still call myself a Ninja Rockstar?
There's something to be said for misplaced egos, but spending half a breath indirectly reaffirming that titles are pointless in startups... is pointless.
I am confused by the immediateness of this going to the top of HN, it seems to lack any real substance.
As others have said, people don't call themselves 'rock stars' and 'ninjas', people look for them. Beyond that, using the definition that refers to the traditional use of the words rather than the idiosyncratic ones to show you don't want a 'ninja' or 'rockstar' is so fucking cheap it hurts.
I think the expediency by which it arrived at the top might possibly be indicative of how many people have exactly the same sentiment. Possibly we were all just waiting for some one to say it first. Put our disdain for the phrase in text.
I agree on the no substance part....and I wrote it. Was very shocked that this post got any traction and now I'm curious about it from a sociology / marketing point of view.
Which brings to mind the question: How many rock stars are programmers? There are quite a few coder-artist types, thanks mainly to Processing, but I've yet to hear about a coder rock star (let alone, of course, a coder ninja, but those are, you know, reclusive by nature).
I wouldn't call them stars, but I know at least two programmers (assuming one hasn't moved on to managing programmers) that play in rock bands. Does that count?
Personally I think Rundgren is an acquired taste, like Zappa. But give it a shot. He's also produced some amazing albums for other groups (XTC's Skylarking being my favorite).
I actually applied for one job labelled "product manager rockstar" when I first saw the term. But that was mostly because I had been playing music onstage for ten years and I thought it would be funny to put that in my resume and send it in.
I just searched Monster.co.uk for "ninja". Two out of the three jobs returned were for marketing/finance jobs at Google, and in both the matching sentence was:
It's funny now these trends work. I remember the first time I heard a someone refer to themselves as a ninja and I thought it was so cool. It was this guy that had an ad on CSS Mania, if that tells you how long ago it was.
About 3-4 months ago I was sitting in class and heard my teacher talking about how all the kids want to be called rockstars and ninjas and I knew the trend was dead.
Totally correct! Had been meaning to change it, then crashed out. Woke up to shock that someone reads my blog. Then changed it. By the way...now accepting applications for a copywriter. I am very very bad at headlines. :(
Does this guy believe that when coders call themselves rockstars and ninjas they ACTUALLY mean rockstars and ninjas?
I'm confused by the article. The humor is dry and I honestly can't tell if he really thinks we are serious about the terms. He couldn't actually think so... right?
Nobody tell this guy he has "killer shoes" because he may start to think his feet are out to get him.
No, he's saying the analogies are far short of appropriate:
Seriously guys…I’m sure we can think of some ego flattering terms for a good programmer that don’t immediately imply that hiring them would be an act of blatant stupidity. I’m open to suggestions.
Ah ha, so is English not your first language? If so, that may be part of why this didn't work for me.
I don't think that when we say "Ninja" or "Rockstar" we are even remotely referring to their actual definitions or what they really are in the real world.
A "Ninja", where I'm from, is considered swift, quiet, stealth, accurate and focused.
A "Rockstar" is just bigger than life, someone others can only aspire to be but few will ever be.
English is my first language. American, not as much..and SV slang most definitely not. I actually like the term ninja when applied to IT depts because I actually do want my router installed without having to hear Samurai war cries. But coding? I admittedly don't get it. There is way too much baggage in those terms. Perhaps from being in the music industry for too many years.
All in all, I just think the ninja / rockstar meme jumped the shark long ago (how's that for slang?) to the point that I actually irritated myself while writing web site copy using those very words. Anyway, no offense intended.
I find it quite practical that a certain type of people started to attach these rockstar/ninja labels to themselves. This way it becomes very easy to spot the douchebags.
The same goes for job listings that state these terms. Why would a smart person care to work for a company that actively seeks to hire douchebags?
I think the problem is on the demand side: its employers posting jobs with ridiculous titles. I don't think applicants are walking around calling themselves ninjas or pirates or rockstars.
I rather like the terms "rockstar" and "ninja". When people use them in their blog bios, it's generally a pretty good sign that they're not an expert at their tradecraft. When you need to co-opt trendy terms to sell yourself rather than letting your work stand on its own, there's a problem. If there's something I've learned about programmers, it's that the best ones know how much they don't know and generally tend to have some measure of humility about that; it's usually the newbies that feel the need to fluff themselves up with "code ninja" and "VB rockstar".
Job descriptions get a pass, since their job is to stand out.
59 comments
[ 2.6 ms ] story [ 138 ms ] threadJust like this: http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/web/1852182884.html
John Perry Barlow: Grateful Dead to EFF. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Perry_Barlow
As others have said, people don't call themselves 'rock stars' and 'ninjas', people look for them. Beyond that, using the definition that refers to the traditional use of the words rather than the idiosyncratic ones to show you don't want a 'ninja' or 'rockstar' is so fucking cheap it hurts.
http://www.edibleapple.com/the-first-apple-tablet-from-1979/
"You must be a spreadsheet ninja to apply."
Ninja.
I'm having trouble thinking of two more depressingly diametrically opposed words.
About 3-4 months ago I was sitting in class and heard my teacher talking about how all the kids want to be called rockstars and ninjas and I knew the trend was dead.
http://davidcrow.ca/jobs/1888/bandzoogle-rockstar-web-design...
I am told the company was quite happy with the solicitation and it apparently got them the kind of applicants they wanted, so win win.
http://www.google.com/search?q=I+am+a+css+ninja
I'm confused by the article. The humor is dry and I honestly can't tell if he really thinks we are serious about the terms. He couldn't actually think so... right?
Nobody tell this guy he has "killer shoes" because he may start to think his feet are out to get him.
Seriously guys…I’m sure we can think of some ego flattering terms for a good programmer that don’t immediately imply that hiring them would be an act of blatant stupidity. I’m open to suggestions.
I don't think that when we say "Ninja" or "Rockstar" we are even remotely referring to their actual definitions or what they really are in the real world.
A "Ninja", where I'm from, is considered swift, quiet, stealth, accurate and focused.
A "Rockstar" is just bigger than life, someone others can only aspire to be but few will ever be.
All in all, I just think the ninja / rockstar meme jumped the shark long ago (how's that for slang?) to the point that I actually irritated myself while writing web site copy using those very words. Anyway, no offense intended.
The same goes for job listings that state these terms. Why would a smart person care to work for a company that actively seeks to hire douchebags?
Job descriptions get a pass, since their job is to stand out.
"Super America seeking 'Customer Service Superstars' — Factor that in next time your agency posts an opening for a 'Project Manager Rockstar'"
http://twitter.com/threevolts/status/20800932029
http://johnstamosfever.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/ninjas-an...