Ask HN: Tips for Hackers having Kids?
In about 6 months I've got a lovely bundle of joy coming into the world, needless to say I'm extremely excited.
Like many Hackers I work fairly long hours, especially weekends (sometimes when I get my best work done).
I'd love to hear some tips from fellow hackers who have had kids & some tips on managing the transition to a more family focused life, without losing sight of goals & milestones that you have for your startup.
135 comments
[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 206 ms ] thread2. Hack when they sleep. Pray to any gods you may have that the one you get does that plentifully and regularly :-)
Good luck!
Spouses second.
Computers third.
I'm sure you already figured that one out but I still have to remind myself periodically when I'm in to something interesting so I figured it wouldn't hurt to repeat it.
Get up an hour or two before your kids do so you can get some work done when you're still fresh (assuming your kids don't get up at 6 am :) ).
If both me and my kid needed a kidney you think I'd let my husband give his kidney to me? Second priority != neglect
The biggest gift you can give your significant other just after delivery (and in the case of the lady after breastfeeding stops (if you do that)) is a good nights sleep.
> Downvoters are quick on the trigger, aren't they...
Yes, it's annoying.
As a general rule, outside of exceptional situations, spouses take care of their kids together before they get around to taking care of themselves.
Kids are considered dependents and as such both parents will find that they will instinctively turn towards their children first in times of need. Whether that's always the rational thing to do is a different question but that seems to be the normal order of things.
When your child is doing fine and your spouse needs you the order is obviously different, need trumps play any day.
What has worked for me is to get an early start in the morning so I can cut off work at a decent hour. Then I often will put in hours after the kids go to bed. Doing this I can still put in fairly long hours. Important thing is to review your goals and milestones and make adjustments to the time required to hit them. If the schedule was created assuming 60-70 hours a week, you will need to rethink the deadlines.
On the family front, one thing that has worked out really we for my wife and me is that we each have one night a week free, where the other is responsible for the kids. This one afternoon/evening is a nice relief. I use it to go grab some drinks with friends, play golf, hack on a project, watch a movie, etc. We both find that we are better parents (and spouses) when we get some down time.
That sort of sums it up for me. Being a good dad is the priority for me too, but I feel that perhaps it's the beginning of the end, in a field where you have to rush to keep up with so much stuff happening.
I quit my job when my son was seven months old, took a month off, then went back to work three days a week. I'm a stay at home dad the other two.
Eight months later, this seems very, very easily to have been the best decision I've ever made.
I have a feeling having reduced hours free will cause me to really focus on being productive in those hours and focusing on the work that truly matters.
(I heard it in some random YouTube video once, which just goes to show that good advice can be found in strange places)
A few thoughts:
(a) Schedule is key. Put the little buggers on a schedule and keep to it.
(b) The parent's bed is sacred, no child shall pass. We were very strict with this rule. Our kids have never been in our bed to sleep.
(c) Free time is key, one of the best things we did was get a nanny/house keeper on Saturday. That way we can leave the kids at home and go have a nice lunch together and maybe see a movie without the hassle of babysitters and late nights.
(d) Start waking up early, way early. Nearly 4 years into fatherhood I am still searching for the ways to attain my lost productivity. One of the biggest has been to simply wake up earlier. Kids bring about a new world order. Accept and move on and embrace the 4:30 wakeup.
Don't have kids, no "hassle"!
As for (d) kids are your productivity, they're are what you've produced, they will be your lifes work. Don't sideline them, don't let nannies have all the fun.
I let a 7yo I'd never met take my 16mo old off to the playpark today .. I did watch from less than 50m away though, perhaps I'm holding the reins too tight?
Leaving them to cry it out is not a great idea, because it undermines their sense of security and may make them more clingy later.
My daughter though is my biggest treasure, nothing in life will ever make me as happy, fullfilled and scared of loosing than her.
I've been a dad now for 3 months (currently working long hours and waiting for baby to wake up for her 3am feeding)
I've learned to value sleep, I think of weekend afternoons as brain-rebuilding sessions, I sleep as much as I can saturdays and sundays.
Now, I try to do email, hacker news and all the dilly dallying after I'm home and everyone is asleep, during the day I try to be as productive as possible, since I feel I should head home as early as I can to be with my daughter and help my wife.
Congratulations and welcome to the club (it's indeed a club, you'll notice other parents nodding back at you when you have your baby with you, also you'll notice how babies are to women as hot girls are to guys, they can't help but turn around and look at you and your baby)
Seems modafinil replaces amphetamines for keeping you really awake when your body wants to sleep. I don't think that the first response to your body saying it needs sleep should be to reach for some mood altering drugs to make it pretend to itself that it doesn't really need sleep.
Grandparents. If you've got 'em close enough (ours aren't) then they, or other friends/family that will do a couple of hours with the kids, are what you need IMO.
Sure, it shouldn't be the first response - I mentioned "crisis" and high intensity situations. Modafinil has a longer term but similar effect to caffeine, but without most of the negative side effects. Like you shouldn't be fueling your short nights with caffeine (though many parents do), you shouldn't be popping modafinil every night either. Temporarily? Both techniques could provide a respite from soul crushing fatigue.
Use these first few weeks to help establish (and lengthen) the baby's feeding and sleeping rythm: er, basically help baby get a full meal, sometimes they eat only a little then fall asleep and consequently not for very long. Eat, eat some more, burp. play, sleep.
At first, when baby sleeps, you sleep too. Or you don't sleep at all! Either way, you'll be oh-so-tired. But there's light at the end of the tunnel.
Everyone will be full of advice, listen patiently, then figure out your own way, which will be different from all others. In six months you'll be giving advice too.
My one biggest piece of advice. SLEEP WHEN THE BABY SLEEPS. or you will get NO sleep ever.
It will be the roughest thing you have ever gone through but one smile from your childs face up at yours makes it all better and reinvigorates you for another shot of energy for whatever you need to do.
Trust me though you will need to take at least 4 weeks off work for paternity leave assuming you are the father. Then once you go back to work expect to only work on the computer when you are at work. When you get home expect your wife to want some help with the kid and dinner etc. and don't expect to get any computer time at night for the first 3-4 months.
You will only get computer work done at work when you are away from the house and at the office. When you are at home your wife will have a constant stream of little things she will want you to do and you will feel like a slave, but then you will imagine what she goes through being alone with the baby all the time. and you will have mad respect for her.
Mostly try to be supportive and learn to not mumble under your breath when she asks you to do a million little things, Just do them and move along. It will pass soon once the baby hits 6 months or so and starts to have a real personality that you can interact with.
The first 4 months out of the womb is considered the 4th trimester and the kid is really still a foetus. Literally they cannot do anything for themselves until about 4 months. So its all up to you ad your spouse to do everything for them. They will be all floppy for a while not even able to hold their head up without support.
Trust me though it will all be worth it every time your little one smiles in your face and you will be re-invigorated.
Its the most incredible thing that has every happened to me and it made me re-evaluate my life and make major changes(like major changes). I resigned from my startup that I founded after 4 years(engine yard: really long story i'll write a book about someday ;)) to make sure i could spend this time with my son as much as possible. I cannot say what I am doing next but I am moving to Portland where my folks live in order for my son Ryland to be closer to his grandparents. And got a job that was understanding about working remote and weird hours. My new boss is the coolest ever he literally said "As long as you shit good code I don't care where your toilet is" :P
Don't worry, it will come naturally to you like it has to all humans thhroughout time. But remember this
SLEEP WHEN THE BABY SLEEPS DURING THE FIRST 4 MONTHS
good luck! and congratulations!
Best of luck with the next venture, maybe we all can do a followup thread in a few years on "Tips for ensuring your Kids grow up into successful Hackers."
I'm an incredible proud Dad to a fifteen week old baby boy and his advice echoes every single thing I was going to say.
Then once you go back to work expect to only work on the computer when you are at work.
I'd like to elaborate on this point. Leaving Mum & baby at home will be difficult for a while, I still struggle with it immensely but it is hugely important to remember that your job is absolutely instrumental as you are now the main breadwinner and your family is relying on you to work hard every minute you are away from them. As hard as it may be to leave them at home, don't let it be a waste of time, make sure that you are giving 100% when you are away and please don't bring your work home with you if you can avoid it. Whilst at work, focus on it 100%. Don't spend all day at work wishing you were at home.
Be prepared to argue like crazy with your other half. Regardless of how strong your bond is, you will fall out. Her patience with the baby may be beyond comprehension but do not expect that patience to extend to you. As stressful as it may be for you, I can guarantee it will be worse for her, infinitely worse if she's breastfeeding. Maintain perspective and learn to let everything slide.
Final point: Routine. Routine, routine, routine, routine. Sleep will become a rare and priceless commodity so it is crucial that you establish a bedtime routine from the beginning. Find a routine and stick with it. Read to your kid every single night. Even if it's just for a couple of minutes. It may seem pointless in the beginning but stick with it. Babies bedtime is now my favourite part of the day.
Good luck mate. It's an incredible journey.
This. It took us 8 months to get it sorted but now our little boy just about begs to be put to bed and he sleeps 10 hours a night without a sound.
We are incredibly lucky, since 10 weeks old, baby Cameron has been sleeping a minimum of 8 hours a night.
Sometimes it takes 10 weeks, sometimes it takes 8 months, either way, it's worth the effort.
Kids thrive on routine.
The problem some parents have with their children is they try to change the way the children behave to something other than what they learned from their parents.
If they are the type to go out, party, invite friends over and stay up late, etc, then they should expect their children to emulate that. It's when the parents want their children to behave differently that you have a problem. This is all purely my own experience.
My sister gets in a panic if the kids aren't in the bath at a particular time, aren't in bed on routine haven't finished a meal at the set time, etc.. PITA I say.
We've had problems now that J has gone to school. We couldn't keep the same sleep regime as we had to be up to get to school.
Like all the other papas here say, BE SENSITIVE TO YOUR WIFE. Be aware that as your wife breast feeds (if she does) her hormones are still rocking to a different beat every hour. Let complaints roll off your back. Sometimes things won't make sense to you, but go with the flow. Afford her tons of generosity and selflessness. Clean the house for her, offer to take the baby so she can sleep, draw her a bath to soak in with candles and bubbles. Take her on a romantic date if she's up for it so she feels like she's still got it even though she may complain about her body often. Make her life easy and sweet and yours will be good.
Also, for a bit of relief... listen to Garrison Keilor's Fatherhood tale: http://www.publicradio.org/tools/media_player/popup.php?name...
Enjoy being daddy! It's absolutely wonderful. You will forget about working overtime. You'll want to spend any and all free time with your little one. Cheers!
Didn't your wife find that her breasts were painfully engorged by not feeding the baby all night?
Hilarious. I don't have a wife w a baby, but I can totally see how that situation would come up a lot.
Well, and never mind the hormones (though both parents will have a lot of these going on) -- breastfeeding quite literally takes a lot out of you. She will have more to do, but less energy than she's used to.
Just do everything you can, and then more, and look for the humor to put a smile on your face (and hers) whenever you can. It gets easier as you go along.
My routine now (works for me, running a business in two timezones - GMT & PST) is:
London office: 9/9.30 --> 5/5.30
Home for bathtime (the baby's!)
Baby into bed ~7.30pm
No work or computer until after 10pm - when I now find I can do a good chunk of productive work (I never used to be able to do this and get up the next morning consistently).
Essentially, having a daughter did what all those years of trying to hack my sleep patterns couldn't do. I don't know if it was being thrown in at the deep end or a change of motivation, but either way...
The late shift also helps because our Seattle-based crew are online then.
You seem to have things worked out pretty good, and I so agree with you about the smiles.
ezmobius, I wish I had more votes to give you, as this is one of the best comments I've read on HN.
And an emphasis on sleeping when your baby sleeps, you may need to encourage your wife to sleep, as she'll probably want to do other things.
A friend of mine with 3 kids often says, "Mom takes care of the baby, Dad takes care of Mom." I think that's apt in the first 4 months, just do whatever you can to allow your wife to be the best mother she can be.
I'm pretty opposed to this idea, actually.
Breastfeeding is an obvious exception (I couldn't help much with that, though during the tricky part at the beginning I learned a hell of a lot about how to help the baby latch on), but in general I think you should be doing every single baby task whenever you can.
If you don't, after a few weeks your wife will be so much better at changing diapers, changing clothes, calming the baby when it's upset, taking the baby for a walk, etc. etc. that you won't be able to do it, even when she needs you to. It'll be weird for you, weird for the baby, and you'll just get screams until Mommy comes back, and that means you'll be fairly useless when your wife most needs your help.
If you're working from home, dive in (this was how I did it).
If you are away at work during the day, then when you get home you should take over the baby as much as possible. Change the diapers, even if you're slow & awkward at first (you'll quickly improve), give a bath (also hard at first!), dance the baby around the house and sing some songs. And if the baby has nursed recently, do NOT just hand if off to mom at the first sign of distress -- figure it out yourself. When the baby cries in the middle of the night, take it far away from the bedroom (once you've figured out that it's not hungry, that is), take a deep breath, and start experimenting to learn how you can calm it (it may be different from what mom does). And actually, if you've got bigger hands and a longer reach than your wife, some of these things will be naturally easier for you anyway.
Trust me, you'll be a far more valuable daddy this way.
Agreed. Check out this book: http://www.amazon.com/Healthy-Sleep-Habits-Happy-Child/dp/04... .
New borns sleep 18-20 hours a day but the few waking hours are distributed throughout the 24 hour period. This means your sleep will be disturbed in the middle of the night and you will need to make up for it with naps during the day.
Sleep is critical for brain growth and function. Tired dad/mom/baby == crabby dad/mom/baby. It can even lead to a negative feedback loop called being over-tired where one becomes too agitated to enter sleep easily.
After a couple months, you'll want to consider sleep training. This means allowing the kid to cry for increasing periods to unwind and adjust to the solitude/quiet needed for sleep.
My daughter is 14 months, and still wakes during the night to breastfeed (she also eats solid food by now, but still nurses), but she doesn't make any significant noise and doesn't even necessarily wake my wife, and we're both fine and rested in the morning. This has pretty much been the pattern since she was a few months old.
Well... I'm fine and rested in the morning if I have gone to bed at a decent hour. I have trouble concentrating enough to get work done during the day, so I often do it at night. Last night I slept about 5 hours on the couch by my computer then worked as the sun came up. :)
It's not ideal -- I could use more rest in my life -- but I'd rather skip some sleep then cut out any of my involvement in my daughter's life... I'm really enjoying that part. She's learning at an incredible rate, and I'm finding myself pretty good at optimizing her experience (and man, now I really cringe when I see these parents constantly putting the most interesting things just barely out of their poor child's reach, or trying to "discipline" their children into, well, suppressing their essential and powerful natural curiosity).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyphasic_sleep
Plus the experience of giving birth to launch this whole adventure means that probably both parents went for a few days with no or very little sleep, and the mother has a lot of physical recovery to do as well (ever worse if it was a c-section), so they're starting off way in the red.
OT to Ez: Welcome to Portland! There's a fairly active Ruby community here, embedded in an extremely active tech community: see calagator.org if you haven't already. I'm happy to share what little I know about parenting in Portland (geeksam at gmail).
After 9 months your kid will get into a rhythm, sleep at night from 7 till 7 and take 2 two hour naps during the day. This will give you more time to start hacking again. After another 9 months your kids rhythm will change again. Still sleeping from 7 till 7 at night, but only one longer 3 hour nap during the day.
Off course every kid is different, but my kid, and the kids of my friends generally follow this sleeping pattern.
Ha ha ha. Neither of our boys has ever slept for 12 hours AFAIR. I'll agree with the distinct changes in sleeping patterns though - usually within a week for us and it's all changed around, it seems to indicate a big change like teeth coming or growth spurt, etc. or follow one like walking or taking more regular food.
When I arrive home my boy is usually standing at the window waiting for me with a silly grin on his face. I open the door, Mum passes him to me and I carry him straight to the park to look at the trees. Fresh air, relaxing sunsets, big baby laughs and cuddles...
I really can't think of any better way to let go of work day stress and prepare yourself for the chaos that is dinner, bath and bedtime!
NOTE: This is scattershot advice mixed with personal reflection. Salt liberally, expect typos.
I started working on Stormpulse in 2004 as a hobby project a few months after we had our first child. She slept horribly for the first two years of her life--very difficult to get to sleep and woke up a lot. The 'cry it out' method DID NOT WORK for us (some people insist that it works for all, but it doesn't. If it doesn't for you, know you're not alone). Get this DVD and watch it: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8... (It could easily be titled "Hacks for getting a newborn to calm down and go to sleep." Worth every penny/second you'll spend and really easy stuff. Seriously, this is very important: watch this DVD--I just got out of bed to include this link because I would feel bad if you didn't know these amazingly powerful tricks that could spare your sanity many times over.)
I worked a full-time job and kept hacking on SP on nights/weekends through 2006. 2006 went full-time on the startup and it was fantastic because I got to spend a lot more time with our first than ever before. Times at the park on Tuesday mornings when everyone else is in their cube are really wonderful bonding times. You can give your wife a break by taking the kid on an errand. Love is a trip to the grocery store with the baby to give your wife a 30-minute break.
Our second was born in early 2008. I was back at a cube-job (though a great one) so I saw him less in the first year of his life than I might have liked, but by 2009 I was full-time on Stormpulse again (and have stayed that way). I won't lie, it's incredibly difficult. The hardest part is REALLY BEING THERE for your family even when your brain is screaming for you to work on the startup. Don't panic. Be there. Make lots of eye contact and actively listen. Your baby will quickly become a toddler that knows the difference between a mindless/reflexive "uh-huh" and real participation. It's better to stop for 30 seconds, get down and give them a hug than to spend 10 minutes saying 'one second, hold on' as they tug at your leg. Often they just need that 30 second re-connect.
Despite what I've just said about spending day-time hours with the family: work away from home if you can. The separation can be a very necessary thing. I was able to do this in an office very close to home until 2010. This year we had twins. They're 7 weeks old now. I am working at home and for the first time ever, it's working. Quitting HackerNews and Twitter can be life-saving steps. No time for that stuff (I've been up since 3:30am and am talking with my co-founder on AIM--I'm about to go back to sleep until 7:30am or so, I hope).
Let your startup fail before you let your family fail. Stormpulse hasn't failed yet, but I've had to 'give up on it' a couple times before I've been able to have a solid enough financial footing to launch into it again. Now we're at a stage where I don't expect to go back to other work and it's the absolute best setup for our whole family (we see how it contributes to Daddy's involvement at home, rather than how it takes away). I was fortunate to at least start while our first was very small, so that my wife went through that early time where all I did was work or moonlighting and the kids know a gentler reality of "Daddy works but he's also around a lot".
One final thought--when things get tough (time pressures, children aren't behaving, whatever), never blame your wife for anything, ever--even when it appears supremely obvious that she's at fault. Instead, take responsibility and figure out what you could have done differently and what you can do differently going forward. That has gotten me a through a lot of difficult times with family + startup. Giving and sacrifice are the new n...
With 2 children, and with 1.5 weeks left on paternity, I've been hacking away at DuctMail in short spurts. Full time job waiting for me to return, and Mommy is on her 1-year maternity leave (I love Quebec).
I'd add more, but frankly, this post (the parent) is dead-on-balls accurate. Sadly, I have but one vote to give.
BTW the late Tracy Hogg (Baby Whisperer) is also highly recommended; she was also a big proponent of swaddling.
I'm reading all the replies and sucking everything in as my daughter is sleeping on my chest. My life has undoubtedly changed - for the better. There can not be a better startup than your own kids.
My plan now is to take an employment for 4 days/week and work on my own project(s) the 5th. Weekends are strictly family.
Is 8 hrs/week enough to get anything off the ground? We'll see. Would love to hear from anyone else working like that.
Early on, my wife (a pronounced extrovert) wanted adult contact and conversation more than anything. She wasn't all that happy when I was off in the land of ones and zeros when she was talking to me. It was a minor issue before the baby, but it really came into focus when their was a little person vying for our attention all the time. As your child gets older, this advice will apply doubly for the child.
This might sound a little crude, but, here goes: after the first three months, schedule opportunities for intimate time! Your time will be limited, and anything that is not a priority will go by the wayside. You can look up and find that it has been several months since you've been intimate. We didn't have a strict schedule like every Wednesday after she sorted the recycling[1], but we did agree in advance to "take a nap together" later that day or the next day. Spontaneity just didn't really work for us. The trick is keeping the pressure off - if one of you is tired and really just wants to take a nap together, that's got to be OK, otherwise it will drive you apart rather than bring you together.
Good luck. It's an awesome adventure!
[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGOohBytKTU
So, get it under control now. Get to bed early, get out of bed early. Add another 2 hours of time to your 'sleep allocation' if possible.
Get a schedule going. You're going to really need to rely on this when things get crazy. You'll have to reduce your "up all night hacking" time and allocate that to "relaxing with the baby, playing" time .. Babies really need a lot of play time. The more you play, the better things get. Babies get bored, real easy. You don't want a bored baby when you're trying to get some code written.
I've got another one on the way soon, too, along with my 3 year old boy, who has been an amazing bundle of joy, every single day. I can't emphasize enough that you really do get amazing returns on your investment into your kids, and if you start to adjust your hacker life now to become more of a parent, you'll reap the rewards later. You don't have to stop hacking, by the way .. but you do need to make some changes to make sure that both hats (father/hacker) are covered.
Also, don't forget to take time for you and your significant other to just be together. Its really, really important. Date nights are just as special and just as necessary, so please prepare your friends and family to help out with this (babysitting) as soon as possible. It helps a great deal when things get stressed that you and your partner are still greatly in love with each other ..
I find it difficult to work 60 hours per week, take my kids to sports and then muster energy when they sleep to work on startup
Advice?
Everything changes, best to accept it and just try to roll with it. Every kid is different, even if you have twins, every parent is different, even your and your partner. What works one night for might not work the next, or vice versa!
Expect your hours to change, unless you've got an extended family to help out with the bub.
Get you and your family into ROUTINE. It feels like groundhog day sometimes, but when you go out of routine, it's not good. Achieving a routine means you will be able to plan the work you need to do, and understand how much time you have. If you don't have a routine, then you will suffer be warned!
If you need time to work extra which means your wife is taking care of the kids more often than not, then respond in kind and give her time off, treat her, look after her. I never blame my wife for my stresses, ever. You will argue no doubt. Develop broad shoulders and take it on the chin, don't hold grudges, be there to support your wife.
Enjoy this new part of your life !!
Father of two sons, a 20-month old and a 1-week old.