In Durham NC, we went from zero to 3 new dockless bike share programs on the streets in the same week! I personally think it's great, but it was strange to go from zero to 3. To me, the interesting part is how expensive is it to keep those bikes in good working order? It's still very new here so time will tell.
DC has this plague now. Zero to, what must be five or six, dockless bike companies. They're such a nuisance, people throw them in dumpsters, in rivers, park them in the street, block the sidewalk, break the locks and ride them normally. It's awful.
It definitely could fill a niche because sometimes the docked bike stations are too far or empty, but right now they're a huge nuisance and I'm seeing a bit of a backlash.
What's wrong with bikes parked in the street (assuming they're using on-street parking)? They certainly take up less room than a car parked in the same space.
Personal bikes tend to get locked to fixed objects. Anything that motivates users of dockless shared bikes to treat them more similar to personal bikes will be an improvement, in many ways.
The bigger question is how to generally proceed with making users responsible for anything, without driving them away?
In my experience, in a crosswalk literally in the street. Although having a dock less bike take up car parking spots I’m trying to use would be infuriating.
A plague is a good way of describing them. There is no concern whatsoever about where the bikes are left. They are often right in the middle of the sidewalk in front of where ever they were ridden to. I have been bitten by the lack of a Capitol Bike share dock more then once, so I understand the benefit, but there needs to be rules like put your things away when you are done using them.
It's a chicken and egg problem. There's no place to park because cities have been built around driving, and then walking. But not biking. In the Netherlands, there are bike racks, bike parking lots.... plenty of space to put them, and a solid social understanding that you cannot leave your bike in the walkway.
Give it time.
China has the same but these bikes are still a huge problem. Well, it used to be better: the attended bike parking lots of 15 years ago have disappeared as the sea of bicycles phenomena unfortunately ended.
It sounds like the residents of DC are the plague and the bikes are just a litmus test to reveal how far gone they really are. The bikes work well in some places.
I’m picking up at least one bike a day. In Wallingford area of Seattle they just get unceremoniously tossed onto the ground or knocked over by other means. I do hope a single app emerges which can manage across the 3 apps (lime, ofo, spin)
They're popular in Berlin and the system works well. It's only one company, but I've never seen this sort of vandalism.
I also don't understand why it would happen. They have GPS, and the company knows who rents them. Maybe it's inconsiderate riders leaving them in the middle of the sidewalk, plus inconvenienced pedestrians damaging them in revenge?
Even in that somewhat possible scenario: I wonder why people don't similarly take matters into their own hands when inconvenienced by, for example, illegally parked cars.
It's also worth mentioning that no bike, parked anywhere but the middle of a busy street, could create as much inconvenience and health risks as any car.
People always assume a city full of cars as the "default", that has to be accepted. Yet in large cities, a quarter to half of all people (and far more in Manhattan) live good lives without owning a car. Imagine how quality of life would skyrocket if more people made the responsible choice: you'd win back 1/3 of public space that is currently used for parking. Possibly another 1/6th by converting most streets to one-ways, as would be possible if the remaining traffic is just public transport, deliveries & the elderly. With less traffic, most intersections could function without traffic lights.
Biking, walking, and public transport would each become far more attractive than it is right now. Seriously: in dense areas, car usage has become a collective action problem.
With Galileo coming online, you can get sub-centimetre position resolution, which would enable you to clearly identify riders misplacing bikes.
In regards to bikes being picked up and moved, a simple alarm might help. But I really doubt that there would be much vandalism against parked bikes that don't get in the way. After all the streets are full of parked bikes, and vandalism is quite rare.
(Yes, I have seen plenty of bikes with parts missing or bent wheels. But these usually remain in place for years, based on my observations, skewing superficial impressions. I've parked my bike on public streets for years, and the only thing that ever happened was my fancy saddle once being stolen.)
>People always assume a city full of cars as the "default", that has to be accepted. Yet in large cities, a quarter to half of all people (and far more in Manhattan) live good lives without owning a car. Imagine how quality of life would skyrocket if more people made the responsible choice: you'd win back 1/3 of public space that is currently used for parking. Possibly another 1/6th by converting most streets to one-ways, as would be possible if the remaining traffic is just public transport, deliveries & the elderly. With less traffic, most intersections could function without traffic lights.
I don't understand this attitude.
You can't solve transportation problems by reducing supply of A and increasing supply of B. You need to increase supply over-all. An over crowded subway, bike lane and highway all suck. Which you prefer to endure is only a matter of personal taste.
If you make transportation via one method expensive (time, money or some other metric) people will do less of that and more of something else but the net result is harm because the cost of physical distance increases and that has a negative impact on quality of life because people are forced to use the wrong tool for the job. Examples include commuting via car or carrying groceries on a bike.
The "food desert" issue is a good example of how a high cost of getting from A to B hurts people. People can't buy good food because they can't afford to go where they can afford to buy it. Sure you could ride your bike 10mi to get groceries but that's not a time/money/quality trade-off most people are ok with (they'd rather eat junk food).
Another example, there's a bunch of clothes that I've been meaning to donate to charity but haven't because my schedule, my SO's schedule and the business hours of the thrift store need to sync up so one of us can circle the block or donating said clothes will cost $8 of parking. If so many people biked or public transit was so good that one of us could find free/cheap parking the thrift store would have the clothes by now.
I was recently in a city in SE China which is having great success with these bikes. A scan with Wechat unlocks them. they have team size of guys in Uniform going around clearing them up and cleaning them all the time, which is probably not as feasible in the West
Ugh, these bikes have been horrible in Shanghai. I loved the idea when it first came out last summer, but they’ve gotten to be a plague. Every block is choked with these bikes, but you’re more likely to see their handlebars sticking out of a pond than to see them actually being ridden.
It’s a cool idea, and I’m still optimistic, but I can’t think of a city where this idea works well. Riding a mobike is rough when it’s hot, or when it’s cold. It’s imposible in a city that’s not flat. And in cities where biking is nice, people already have bikes.
Interested to see where this goes, but pretty cautiously optimistic
Maybe they are a problem in Shanghai, but they seemed to be doing great in Xiamen when I was last there. The city made parking areas in every block that you should leave them in, and people generally seemed to do so.
They have been in Changsha as well. I have only heard good things about it. The city is much smaller than Shanghai and people rely on it for the last km when they get off the few subway lines that exist there.
I'm in Chengdu, Sichuan right now. There's literally 2-3 hundreds of Mobike/Ofo bikes nearby every metro station or shopping centre.
But it seems people at least try to put them in rows and local security (there's rarely a public space that's really public) shouts at people for dropping bikes randomly.
Around midnight the maintenance workers check every bike for damages / battery level and take them back to warehouses leaving just a few dozens in a neatly ordered lines.
What's more at least Ofo notifies you that the bike you used was park against the rules. They probably give you a few strikes and then terminate your account.
The best part about dock-less bike share is the cognitive dissonance of people claiming they are somehow "blocking the street" and "ruining its character" standing in a sea of parked private cars on public space.
I get your point, but I have seen bikes dumped in the middle of the sidewalk. It would be nice if the bike share companies gave a discount or something for "friendly" parking. Like you take a photo of the bike's parking spot when you are done then they give you a credit on your account if it is orderly.
Of course, someone would have to click through these photos, but seems like a simple enough mechanical turk task.
I guess someone could take a photo then dump the bike onto the sidewalk, but it seems that wouldn't be worth the effort. of properly parking it in the first place.
Well, all the high end performance bikes are carbon these days, "making bikes out of plastic" is a somewhat accurate description of their manufacturing process. But those are certainly not the semi-disposable bikeshare junk we are talking about here.
Like others I think this idea sounds great in theory, especially for cities without a dock system already in place. I'm pretty confused about NYC encouraging this though given the obviously downfalls. One of the few things I actually dislike about living here is the complete disregard for public spaces/services. There are many reasons for it, but I can't imagine how bad this will get if New Yorkers and our tourists treat these bicycles with the same care they treat the subways/buses/parks/sidewalks, etc. I imagine pretty much every major tourist destination that's an open space will be completely filled with discarded bicycles from May to November each year. Not to mention the burden this will put on the already overcrowded Manhattan sidewalks.
A few years ago when Citi bike started I remember it being pretty sparse, and I could have seen the benefit of dockless programs to encourage faster expansion. At this point they are everywhere, except farther out areas of Brooklyn and Queens where many people have cars and likely wouldn't use them. Citi bike seems (to me) to bring all the benefits of a dockless system without any of the downsides. Granted the price is higher, but it's still cheaper than the subway if you buy the membership, and for tourists if they are here for 3+ days and get the $24 pass.
They've been great in Seattle. I mostly ride my own bike around but have used dock-less bikes for connecting the last-mile on a bus trip. A small percentage are poorly parked and when I walk by I take the 5 seconds to move a bike or pick one up that's fallen over. No biggie.
I also like that it is putting pressure on the stupid nanny-state helmet law.
Well, I’m glad at least one of us enjoys them. Walking around them every day is getting old, fast. The city is littered with these neon orange/green/yellow things cluttering up our throughways.
Interesting. My commute by foot into downtown is 30 minutes/1.5 miles each way every day and I scarcely notice the bikes. I think they're a great idea and hope the idea flourishes.
Fremont is completely covered in them. They're parked all over the burke gilman trail, cutting away at the already limited space for walkers, bikers, and joggers.
As much as I love the idea of accessible bikes, the lack of helmets and sheer amount of space consumed feels overwhelmingly unsafe at times.
It works fine in Copenhagen, but there is plenty of bicycle parking on every street. Most people leave the doodles hire bikes in a proper bicycle rack.
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[ 4.6 ms ] story [ 63.8 ms ] threadIt definitely could fill a niche because sometimes the docked bike stations are too far or empty, but right now they're a huge nuisance and I'm seeing a bit of a backlash.
Edited for clarity.
The bigger question is how to generally proceed with making users responsible for anything, without driving them away?
The only reason I’m not using them is the helmet problem.
I also don't understand why it would happen. They have GPS, and the company knows who rents them. Maybe it's inconsiderate riders leaving them in the middle of the sidewalk, plus inconvenienced pedestrians damaging them in revenge?
Even in that somewhat possible scenario: I wonder why people don't similarly take matters into their own hands when inconvenienced by, for example, illegally parked cars.
It's also worth mentioning that no bike, parked anywhere but the middle of a busy street, could create as much inconvenience and health risks as any car.
People always assume a city full of cars as the "default", that has to be accepted. Yet in large cities, a quarter to half of all people (and far more in Manhattan) live good lives without owning a car. Imagine how quality of life would skyrocket if more people made the responsible choice: you'd win back 1/3 of public space that is currently used for parking. Possibly another 1/6th by converting most streets to one-ways, as would be possible if the remaining traffic is just public transport, deliveries & the elderly. With less traffic, most intersections could function without traffic lights.
Biking, walking, and public transport would each become far more attractive than it is right now. Seriously: in dense areas, car usage has become a collective action problem.
In regards to bikes being picked up and moved, a simple alarm might help. But I really doubt that there would be much vandalism against parked bikes that don't get in the way. After all the streets are full of parked bikes, and vandalism is quite rare.
(Yes, I have seen plenty of bikes with parts missing or bent wheels. But these usually remain in place for years, based on my observations, skewing superficial impressions. I've parked my bike on public streets for years, and the only thing that ever happened was my fancy saddle once being stolen.)
I don't understand this attitude.
You can't solve transportation problems by reducing supply of A and increasing supply of B. You need to increase supply over-all. An over crowded subway, bike lane and highway all suck. Which you prefer to endure is only a matter of personal taste.
If you make transportation via one method expensive (time, money or some other metric) people will do less of that and more of something else but the net result is harm because the cost of physical distance increases and that has a negative impact on quality of life because people are forced to use the wrong tool for the job. Examples include commuting via car or carrying groceries on a bike.
The "food desert" issue is a good example of how a high cost of getting from A to B hurts people. People can't buy good food because they can't afford to go where they can afford to buy it. Sure you could ride your bike 10mi to get groceries but that's not a time/money/quality trade-off most people are ok with (they'd rather eat junk food).
Another example, there's a bunch of clothes that I've been meaning to donate to charity but haven't because my schedule, my SO's schedule and the business hours of the thrift store need to sync up so one of us can circle the block or donating said clothes will cost $8 of parking. If so many people biked or public transit was so good that one of us could find free/cheap parking the thrift store would have the clothes by now.
I got a bigger chuckle than apt from this quote:
“It’s like the internet in 1999.”
Suuuuure.
At least engauge if you disagree.
More generally, please don't post unsubstantive comments here.
It’s a cool idea, and I’m still optimistic, but I can’t think of a city where this idea works well. Riding a mobike is rough when it’s hot, or when it’s cold. It’s imposible in a city that’s not flat. And in cities where biking is nice, people already have bikes.
Interested to see where this goes, but pretty cautiously optimistic
But it seems people at least try to put them in rows and local security (there's rarely a public space that's really public) shouts at people for dropping bikes randomly.
Around midnight the maintenance workers check every bike for damages / battery level and take them back to warehouses leaving just a few dozens in a neatly ordered lines.
What's more at least Ofo notifies you that the bike you used was park against the rules. They probably give you a few strikes and then terminate your account.
Of course, someone would have to click through these photos, but seems like a simple enough mechanical turk task.
I guess someone could take a photo then dump the bike onto the sidewalk, but it seems that wouldn't be worth the effort. of properly parking it in the first place.
What? Is this hyperbole, or are there actually companies making bikes out of plastic? That sounds like a terrible idea.
A few years ago when Citi bike started I remember it being pretty sparse, and I could have seen the benefit of dockless programs to encourage faster expansion. At this point they are everywhere, except farther out areas of Brooklyn and Queens where many people have cars and likely wouldn't use them. Citi bike seems (to me) to bring all the benefits of a dockless system without any of the downsides. Granted the price is higher, but it's still cheaper than the subway if you buy the membership, and for tourists if they are here for 3+ days and get the $24 pass.
I also like that it is putting pressure on the stupid nanny-state helmet law.
As much as I love the idea of accessible bikes, the lack of helmets and sheer amount of space consumed feels overwhelmingly unsafe at times.
Got to get working on that bike-mounted lidar.