Ask HN: What's the best way to recover from burnout?

102 points by techexecadvice ↗ HN
I've been in a technology executive role at a large company for 6 years. It's been incredibly fulfilling and the best job I could ask for. In the last couple years though, it's also pivoted a bit and become increasingly draining. Because I can affect my circumstances and mitigate the bad parts, quitting has always felt like giving up, so I've found ways to continue. But I've now reached the point where I'm so burned out that I have very little ambition, and find myself just trying to get through the day, avoiding opportunities and social interactions. I've decided I need to quit.

The problem is, I can't imagine what I'd like to do next. As I mentioned before, this has been a fantastically fulfilling job and a promising career. Nothing I can imagine stacks up to it. At the moment I want nothing to do with it, but I think that's fueled by my burnout. If that's the case, it seems silly to switch to a different career. How do I get past this burnout so I can think clearly and be "myself" again?

Best idea I have is to take a couple months off and try to recover from my burnout, and hope it becomes clear what I'd like to do next -- even if it's a similar role at another company. But taking time off with nothing lined up has its own risks, and I imagine there's more to it than simply "not working."

Any advice?

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Is it an option to take an extended vacation (3 weeks +) before you make your next move?

If having nothing lined up is adding to your stress levels then kick off the job search and be upfront with them that you want to take some time off before you start or you could just tell them you have a long notice period.

Before you go ahead and hand in your notice it's probably worth talking to you immediate boss (or their boss even) to tell them you feel a little burned out and that you'd like to take some unpaid leave / a mini sabbatical. But be prepared for them to give you your notice when you have this conversation.

Thanks. I'm worried about asking for a favor like that from my boss and coming back only to quit. And I'm worried that they'll misunderstand the term "burnout" and it will limit my options for returning one day in the future. What do you think?
Yes, take some time off. Downsize first though, get rid of extra expenses and build up savings.

A trip where you have to do something for unrelated can help.

> Best idea I have is to take a couple months off and try to recover from my burnout, and hope it becomes clear what I'd like to do next -- even if it's a similar role at another company. But taking time off with nothing lined up has its own risks, and I imagine there's more to it than simply "not working."

I've been there. My advice is that "not working" probably isn't enough. You need to focus on something. For me a non-trivial part of it was regaining control of my life, but also not having too many things to stress about.

If you have a couple months my advice would be to hop on/in your favorite vehicle of choice: bicycle, scooter, motorcycle, car, truck whatever as long as it travels on the ground.

Assuming you're in the US then head south, for one month, and north for one via another route. No, it does not matter if you know Spanish. You only need a handful of phrases to get by and you can pick up the rest along the way. You should be able to make it past the southern border of Mexico. Stop at some of the amazing ruins. Eat whatever random meat is being cooked on the roadside. Smile, and laugh.

You will be in control of every decision that affects you, but there will be very few. Get up. Choose a road and a goal to attempt to reach before the day ends. You may or may not make it. It doesn't matter. Choose when to eat. Choose where to sleep. Repeat.

I spent 4 months with my wife http://www.corporaterunaways.com/trips/boston-to-ushuaia/ heading to the bottom of South America. It was completely rejuvenating and life altering (in a good way).

Want something a little easier? Head north to Prudhoe Bay Alaska then make your way back home.

If you're not in the US do the same thing over some other countries. I swear to you that the hardest part is leaving. Traveling through foreign countries where you don't speak the language is actually pretty easy. ;)

Things to note about this strategy (especially if you travel through notably different countries): It gives you lots of time to relax (many miles between places). You see amazing and beautiful things that will inspire you. You have lots of time to think (many miles between places). You meet wonderful people who will help you just because they're good humans. You will remember why life can be good. You'll be reminded just how amazing we have it in our 1st world countries.

Wow, that sounds like an incredible trip! Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Hard to give concrete advice without knowing your specifics (how many months/years of savings do you have? Do you have any dependents? Any debt such as a mortgage? Etc).

As other commenters point out, not working a regular day job is probably a starting point, but not sufficient. Traveling (Or perhaps even living abroad), volunteering, focusing on a hobby you put on hold while you focused on your job are all viable options.

Good answer—it truly depends. All these replies urging you to take a bunch of time off and blow a chunk of change on world travel are making lots of assumptions about your financial and family situation.

Here are some things you can try if you only want to take only a little time off or none at all: Downgrade a little bit in terms of job responsibilities. See if you can work fewer hours or take every other Friday off. Switch industries—if you’re in B2B now maybe go work on consumer tech. Find a non-tech hobby to help you not think about work when you’re not in the office.

You don’t necessarily have to quit and blow your savings.

I took off almost a year. It was so worth it. I coded every day for 8 hrs a day 5-7 days a week and I was doing it for the sheer love of it. I reconnected with why I love coding.

I also worked out, cooked dinner for my wife, did all the errands, etc. Overall, I was never bored a single day, and I would quit in a heartbeat and do the same if I every made enough money (unlikely). I had saved up a decent amount of money, but that time off cost me about $60,000 and it's not something I can afford anymore now that I have kids, unless I hit the jackpot.

but that time off cost me about $60,000

How did that compare with the costs you’d imagined beforehand? Were there any big-ticket costs associated with taking a sabbatical which you hadn’t expected?

I was a regular dev that got promoted to a position that made me consider getting out of the business for good. I was running on fumes, and fantasized about getting a job as a cashier somewhere.

Quit my job, sold my place and my stuff, bought a one-way ticket to Mexico as the first leg of a one year trip around the world. Been here for 4 years now. Got married, got a bunch of dogs, a kid, a really cool job, and regained my love for coding and life.

Edit: Since this got upvoted a bit I will add some back story.

I was well aware that I was experiencing burn out, and I tried the regular things. I changed my unhealthy eating habbits, I started working out and got the muscle tone up and fat down, I took extended vacations to exotic places -- and while it all did work to stave it off, it was not enough. I returned from a 1 month trek in South America, and when I sat down at my desk at work I knew I was done. I had gained the confidence and perspective I needed to rip the band-aid off.

So while my story above seem drastic, there was a build-up period before I made the big change.

Congrats on finding happiness!
It hides in the funniest of places =) Thanks
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just curious, what job did you get in mexico? When I visited, i fell in love, but sadly I assumed that it's impossible to get a job i'd like there, which paid anything at all.

edit: fell in love with the place, not a person ;-)

I used to work as a full stack dev for a web hosting / data center company in Norway.

What my current position is called I have yet to figure out, but I am designing and developing a control system for growing shrimp for a startup here in Mexico. It sounds super boring, but it's actually pretty cool stuff.

We've got a really cutting edge method of growing shrimp with the help of biofloc. My system started out as a way of monitoring and altering the health of this very fragile eco system of microbes, algae and such, but has since pivoted to a beast of a system which best can be described as shrimp as a service :p You come to us with a bunch of money and we will give you the way to grow shrimp more efficiently and eco-friendly than anyone else can claim to do today -- all without you needing any prior knowledge about the field, and most of the decisions are either digitized or outsourced on the fly. The system can also be used to grow shrimp with traditional methods more efficiently.

Big data is also a keyword, where we will constantly learn from participating farms how we can improve the process, detect known and unknown diseases, etc. We'd also like to get in on the distribution side of things once we have lots of farms under our umbrella, and with the ability to look at data and see where we can improve profitability for our customers we have a big advantage.

It's a lot of work, but it's tons of fun and I'm learning lots about a field I never in my wildest dreams would guess I would work in. And there there is something satisfying with digitizing a very analog field. Soon we will start hires to build my team, and our biggest investment round yet -- which will start a fun new phase for the company. We're looking for american investor money, so please let me know if you have an in ;)

I got the job by sheer coincidence. I was at some house party and met a guy who turned out to be a entrepeneur in desperate need of with the ability to make his idea into a product. I wasn't looking for a job, and he was pestering and begging me for months before I relented and promised to build him a prototype.

It doesn't pay a lot by american standards, but the buck lasts longer here so I'm doing pretty ok.

That sounds super cool, do you have a website?
You can read about the biofloc tech from our lab farm (where we develop and improve the process) here: http://www.aguablancaseafood.com/about#/biofloc/

The control tech is not mentioned, and it does not have a website. The «official» reveal will be in the beginning of 2018.

It would be awesome to read the details about your journey. Do you have a blog and if not - are you going to write about it at some point?
I doubt it. I'm ironically busier than ever before, and also don't think I have that much interesting to say. I might start some kind of tech blog for our company once we grow a bit, tho.
Sounds like a nice excuse. You are telling me you do not have an hour a week or an hour once a month to reflect on your life?

I am not saying you have to make your story public by blogging, but you already have some interest from others on the site who may have experienced or are experiencing similar things that you went through.

Sounds like you are rather humble which is fine, but do not think what you have to say is not interesting if random strangers on the internet are asking you about your story.

If that does not trigger alarm bells of you being actually interesting/ having interesting things to say than I do not know what would.

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I'm not one for publically sharing my personal life in greater detail than above, so my reflections will remain internal =)
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If you don’t see anything better to do then stick to your job. It will not be better if you resign and take something worse. Instead try to change your attitude or take few months off and try to live like an unemployed, just to appreciate what you have now
Find a small town in New Mexico and discover you love painting landscapes. Or go engage in some nice poverty tourism in Africa or South America. India, if there is a spiritual-but-not-religious side of you. Maybe take your talents to a small non-profit.

The burnout-recovery process for Tech Executives is a well-worn path. You will be alright.

Take some time off and do something for yourself. Build a boat or a hot rod. Renovate your home. Write a book. Learn to surf. Or sit around and play video games. It doesn't matter. You set the goal and the schedule; you're your only customer. Burnout happens when you are faced with unrealistic or conflicting obligations, which are abundant in the office. This means you must also be circumspect about the expectations you set for yourself, and make sure you are truly fulfilled by what you choose to fill your downtime with.
Prevention is better than recovery. I work on a lot of very different projects and cycle between them as I get bored of one or burnt out on another.
Mens sana in corpore sano.

I was losing grip as well this summer, so I started road cycling: only a few km at first, but now I have no issues with doing centuries (i.e. 100km).

I can't give you any guarantees because I wasn't exactly burned out yet, but it helped me big-time, and I've lost some weight and built some physique while doing it.

Some might say there's a nice metaphor in cycling further each time, but you can be the judge of that.

My mind might be rambling 24 hours per day, but when I get on that bike, it takes about 15 minutes and I'm fully Zen again...

Maybe cycling isn't your thing, and you might prefer running, walking or even putty-golf, but try to find something physical and do it for at least 1 hour, 3 days per week...

How do you deal with the sore as hell sit bones?
Finding the right saddle for your particular anatomy helps a LOT (I swear by ISM saddles, but lots of people hate them)

So does finding the right cycling shorts (you want a good quality pad, but too thick and you'll chafe).

A good bike fit by an experienced fitter goes a long way towards improving comfort on long rides. You don't necessarily need a $300 3D geometry fitting (unless you're a pro or aspiring pro), but something more than the "free with purchase" fit from your local shop can help.

Unfortunately, a good deal of the fix for sore sit bones is simply putting in the time until your body gets used to the stress you're asking of it. You have to build up the number of hours/miles in the saddle slowly over time until your body adapts. If you're riding for an hour a couple of times a week and then suddenly go out and try to do a 4hr weekend ride... it's gonna hurt.

> good deal of the fix for sore sit bones is simply putting in the time until your body gets used to the stress you're asking of it.

That's my experience.

I also tried a $120 saddle following a fitting session. It was torture (I tried it for months). I picked up a $12 saddle from Lidl and all the pain went away. YMMV.

Take it like a man!

Just kidding... Get some good cycling pants, make sure your bike fit is ok, and apply ample amounts of xyz after the ride in delicate areas (for most xyz is chamois cream, but I'm using coconut oil instead).

After a while you get used to it...

I think cycling is also a good idea. If I ever went back to full-time permanent work I would make sure I could commute by bike.
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I feel you. It's a struggle.

Sherry Walling is a very well-educated and practiced psychologist and she does a great episode about burnout on the ZenFounder podcast. She discusses it both from the hands-on side and the clinical side. It helped me a lot.

https://zenfounder.com/episodes/episode-142-burnout/

The TL;DL from my takeaways are to find time to focus on the challenging and exciting tasks from one's to-do list. Complete that work (I.e., hit publish. Don't let perfectionist tendencies prevent you from finishing). Then reward yourself for doing so.

Also, find social outlets continually and don't allow work to overshadow things like friendships and family.

Those were the ones that hit close to home for me.

Those are some tangible, useful tips. Thank you!
If it's a large company I imagine there are many positions open. With enough clout - why not become an executive, or even take a step lower, in another area of the business? Hopefully the company values your leadership and managerial skills (and less so your tech knowledge, since you're high up) and will give you a chance for something new. Having something new will give you a drive to learn and enjoy your new position.

Others in your company may be able to provide feedback on the possibility of doing this...Even talking to them may open doors for the new position. Just make sure it's not a worse position that will give more burnout!

> take a couple months off

Yep, as with many people, usually the role is still a good fit, you just need a break from it. That time will help you figure out your next steps, which likely is some variation of what you're already doing, but with a clean slate that a new position provides.

Food-binge for a weekend or longer to the point of becoming sick, hate yourself and promise you not to ever do it again, ... work for a couple of weeks or months like crazy. Repeat.
I'll share what I do when I'm burnt out and some of my logic for why I think it is effective:

I love working towards a goal. I find the journey enjoyable and the achievement gratifying. For that reason, idle time simply isn't interesting to me.

But working towards another non-work related professional goal while I'm burnt out isn't effective. It doesn't allow for proper relaxation or repair even though it is a break from my job. And why is that? Because I'm still predominantly using my mind, which is already tapped out, to work towards that goal.

So instead, during times when I'm at or near burn out, I do things that are physically exhausting. Hike, kayak, run. It feeds my desire to achieve (reach the summit, complete a trip, run 3 miles), but in a fundamentally different way. My brain stops trying to logic its way through the problem and instead focuses on the physical exertion. I use it as a weapon against fatigue when my efficiency is declining. One hard physical exertion can be enough offload weeks worth of mental fatigue.

Interesting point. I love working on coding side projects, but I can see how that's exercising the same tapped-out muscle. Thanks.
You can of course integrate intense physical exertion into your weekly pattern as well. If the outdoors aren't accessible on a weekly basis, exercise equipment can be used to set and achieve challenges.

I've settled into a pattern of 1000-1500 calorie cardio workouts a few times per week, set to push my performance limits and it's an incredible mood and productivity boost.

One thing I've taken to doing is use neither my phone nor my computer at all for the entire weekend. If you are already burnt out maybe this won't help, but for me it makes an otherwise intense work schedule more sustainable.

Also, I'd heard that you have to completely check out for 10 days on a vacation before you get any restorative benefits. Even checking email one day can reset the clock, or so I heard.

Get a bicycle and just ride it everywhere.
It's a struggle, I feel your burnt out pain. I went through a similar stretch last year...

I tried traveling, I tried picking up new hobbies, I tried not working at all.

2 things that helped the most:

1. seeing a therapist regularly -- wish i started this sooner in my career. 2. taking a break and traveling with a group called unsettled - group of 30 people who are in transition in some way... leaving job, starting new job, switching careers, wanting to leave job, wanting to start a company, starting a company, etc. unsettled gets you a shared house and coworking space. Being around people from all over the world is inspiring and gives you new perspective. There are other companies that offer this remoteyear, etc. but unsettled attracts people in transition which i found to be a good fit for me. see here http://beunsettled.co

> but unsettled attracts people in transition which i found to be a good fit for me. see here http://beunsettled.co

Thanks for this. Was looking exactly for something like this.

Have you done any of their retreats? Can you share your experience if you don't mind? Also, in their F.A.Q, there's no mention of airfare in neither the 'What's included' nor the 'What's not included' section. Do you know?

can't offer advice for you specifically, but if I were in your position (with enough money), I'd:

1. set aside a month for planning; to-do, to-read, etc. try to get a jump start to see what works and what doesn't work. 2. come EOM, are you excited about what you've got lined up? if so, take it month-by-month and keep some record of your progress. if not, you may want to talk to someone - perhaps a therapist. 3. when you do reenter the professional world, try to maintain a strict balance between work and personal time (and space!). too much bleed here burns the candle from both ends, and not in a good way.

Been burnt out myself. Coached a few friends and coworkers through their burnouts. My advice: See what's the longest vacation you can take.

If you're at the point of quitting - just be honest. Tell your Boss that you're burning out and thinking of quitting. You would like to just take a month off or six weeks to recover. You can phrase it as something else entirely to a different part of the team, but be honest with your boss and see if you can get approval for the time off (even unpaid) so you don't spend your time off worrying about finding a job when you get back.

Then take it, worry free. Don't make any decisions in the first 10 days. If you manage to make it 7 days without touching work things, then start thinking about it. Think about whether you liked what you were doing, whether you want to go back.

I've found this strategy has worked for the handful of people who have tried it.

Thanks. Don't you worry about asking for such a favor from your boss and then coming back only to quit?
Not really: it is a gamble you both are playing.

For your Boss, replacing you will take much longer than the 6 week sabbatical she's giving you, AND it will probably cost her more than your salary in that interim. So if you're quitting today, she'd like to take the gamble that you stay. Her gamble is that you are actually happy at your gig as you say you are, and she can save herself a whole lot of hassle. Worst case scenario she loses a month of lead time on an at-least-3-months headhunt. A bit of a wincer, but you can try to make that easier by letting her know as soon as you know that you're done.

If the job market was different, then I would be much more timid about the open strategy. If you do, in fact, dislike your job and are never going to come back, then you're changing the odds on the gamble and hurting your Boss unnecessarily. This could all backfire if your Boss doesn't value you as much as you think they do, but no one is usually off-base on that.