I don't know, but I still like the idea behind the "netbook": small, portable form factor with real keyboard, cheap machine, decent battery life, GNU/Linux. To me, it's too bad that the netbook was pretty much been pushed off the market by the advent of the tablet PC, but as this fact suggest, I'm obviously part of a minority here.
Obviously not. And the exceptional cases like those where the SSD can be swapped out for larger-than-stock SSD's make the point of connectivity pretty moot. And how hard is it to get connectivity nowadays?
Netbooks run the same OSes as more powerful PCs do. Sure, the concept was that they'd be good for lightweight web browsing, but that was kind of a stretch even when they were popular. The way that I used it never really relied on the net. I installed the software locally. Netbooks are just small laptops.
Most CB support Android now so offline use. Ironically you are getting more offline support for things than Windows or OS X because there is more and more an Android app and for Win and OS x web use is expected.
Was flying United not long ago and the entertainment system supported on iOS and Android so you could use with a CB but not Windows or Mac laptops. Confused the heck out of the person sitting next to my son. Finally explained to him why it was working on my son's laptop.
You're right, they're probably the closest thing these days. However, I'd still prefer a proper GNU/Linux distribution for my operating system, but there are efforts to get some of them to boot and run on Chromebooks, too.
It's not that hard. For the most part things work but on at least Skylake and newer, maybe also Braswell, audio is not 100% working. I really like my HP Chromebook 13 G1 running Linux and at the moment I'm trying to get it working with FreeBSD too.
Ebay has totally changed how I view cheap electronics for this reason, why buy a crappy chinese knockoff when i can buy a top of the line thinkpad or dell from 4-5 years ago
Buying used is fantastic. Even setting a few Craigslist alerts can lead to wonderful things happening.
I had a friend shopping around for a professional level digital camera recently, and he didn’t realize until I told him that he could buy a 1-2 year old model with near identical specs and save some cash to buy lenses/accessories/etc or just save it.
One cannot get 7" Thinkpad with full HD screen, weight slightly above a pound and 8GB of RAM. GDP pocket is rather unique and its success is a clear indicator that there is a demand for such form-factor.
I have one and I'm looking to sell it, because the keyboard layout is so non-standard I just can't get used to it. Touch typing is virtually impossible.
It seems like the netbook space was unfortunately so plagued by bad hardware that it lost all credibility as a viable alternative to a laptop-- but there are still very few instances in which I prefer a touchscreen to a keyboard. Even a not-great one.
The impression i have is that first Intel freaked, as they worried that they would cannibalize the ultra-portable market.
Second Microsoft freaked, because Vista could not run on them.
End result was that we got a combo of hardware and software that was not fit for anything, along with a bunch of gray-box rebrands (particularly of a certain MSI model).
> I don't know, but I still like the idea behind the "netbook": small, portable form factor with real keyboard, cheap machine, decent battery life, GNU/Linux.
You and I clearly have very different definitions of "real keyboard".
I've actually been wanting an Android tablet that I can connect a USB mechanical keyboard to (probably an Atreus[0]) as a Chromebook replacement. Problem is, I want vanilla Android (no bloat), and for it to get updates for at least 3 years.
The definition of "netbook" has changed a lot over the years.
It used to be ultra-cheap, ultra-small (in all dimensions, not just thickness), underpowered machine running Linux that had just enough oomph to do some basic surfing and e-mail. It was the laptop you brought with you when you didn't want to risk your real laptop. The early eeePC was a perfect example.
Now it's a Chromebook which is pretty much a laptop by another name.
I had an EeePC 900 back in the day, and used it as you described. I use my Chromebook in much the same way. I want a device with a nice screen that can run a web browser and a mosh client.
I just gave a Samsung Chromebook Pro to my 83 yo mom. She has been a long time Windows user, so wasn't sure she'd pick it up. She loved it.
This model runs Android apps natively, so it has access to all apps in the Play Store. Some weren't converted to take full advantage of large screen resolutions, but so far I haven't found anything that doesn't run.
She had a very short learning curve; in a day or two she was doing everything she used to do with Windows (which wasn't much - email, photos, browsing, spotify, some light printing). The fact she was an Android user probably helped a bit. Also having a touch screen and pen was a huge bonus, so she doesn't have to fiddle with the mouse trying to click on tiny spots.
I considered buying a Pixelbook, but at 2x the price, it was hard to justify considering her use.
(Full disclaimer: I work at Google, but in a different team, not related to hw or Chrome/OS. I purchased the device at the store, full retail price)
That's a shame - the Pixel C was the nicest out of the Google Nexus/Pixel tablets I've owned - luckily I skipped the Nexus 9, but the Pixel C was head and shoulders above the Nexus 10. The keyboard was the first I've seen for a tablet that wasn't just an afterthought (and that includes the Surface Pro 1).
I think this really only leaves the Samsung S3 as a premium Android tablet out there, which is a shame.
I had high hopes for a Nexus 7 replacement with Pixel branding - and I understand the whole "phablet" argument against a mid-size tablet - but it doesn't sound like that will be the case.
my Nexus 9 has worked well for years and of all of the Nexus products I have purchased (4,5,9,10,5x), it has been the most reliable over time. I don't see anything to replace it with.
my nexus 9 has kind of shocked me as well. Originally i was unimpressed, but three years later the software has gotten to the point that it's totally stable and all the overheating issues seem to have been worked out. the build quality is still kind of shitty, but overall the tablet is working better than when it was new and i have no need to replace it (other than the ever-present want for shiny new things).
My nexus 9 is the most disappointing piece of tech I've ever bought. It used to crash all the time when watching video which was the entire point of buying it, it crashes when it hits 40% battery, which is all the time because the battery only lasts a couple of hours.
I loved, loved loved my Nexus 7. The battery eventually died, and I waited for the mythical replacement model which never came. Then I gave up and got an iPad Mini. The iPad is fine, but a 7” Pixel would be awesome.
the Pixelbook will fail because it is too expensive. I love Chromebooks and think they make sense in a lot of cases...but at a $350 price point.
I still use my Nexus 9 (typing this on it)...and skipped the Pixel C due to costs and bad reviews
Google's entire "upscale" Pixel effort seems doomed. The Nexus effort was mostly perfect: decent hardware at attractive prices and stock software with reasonable updates.
Apple commands a premium in part due to Apple Stores being plentiful. When my son cracks his iPhone screen, he walks to the Apple Store and he has a replacement screen in about an hour. What can Google offer? Nothing similar.
It's a serious problem for Android, and one that many people don't recognize. Part of the reason people are willing to pay more for Apple products is the customer service.
Similarly, I know people who buy or lease luxury cars because they know they will get a nice loaner car when they send theirs in for maintenance at the dealership. For example, some of those people really would be satisfied with a Camry, but they spend the extra money on a Lexus ES to get a better service experience.
Just the same, part of the reason people don't buy Apple is because they don't want to pay extra for service. For most of the middle and lower end such hardware (i.e., tablet) is a commodity. No sense paying extra for that.
Note: Not saying I agree, only that not everyone can afford / wants to pay a premium for Apple.
There was an article when it launched [1] that speculates that the reason it's so pricey, larger SSDs, and ridiculously spec'd is because Google has it sights set on enterprise and VM containerization.
I was surprised to see Pixel brand still around. Knowing how Google would kill / merge services every few years, Pixel, I thought would face the same fate. I don't think I can trust a platform that discontinue/move a product off the shelve without an announcement, and has a strong history giving up on products.
Given they just went "all in" on Pixel with last year's Pixel phone rollout, it's a bit early. Give it at least until the first Pixel phones stop receiving security updates next year.
Funnily enough, it used to be that Apple cost more because they were well-designed and would "just work," but now they command a premium because help and repair is always close by!
So, where can one go for a well-made Android tablet these days? Is Samsung the only game in town? The Amazon tablets aren't that great.
A few years ago, my parents bought Nexus 7 tablets to use as e-readers and for games. At the time, they were obviously the best small Android tablets and the purchase was a no-brainer. If they broke today, I'm not sure what I could recommend as a replacement.
The Nvidia shield tablet, but thats also discontinued (and won't be replaced as it's too close to the switch they're making the SoC for for Nintendo now).
I'm using an ASUS ZenPad 3 8.0. It has a decent screen, USB-C, front speakers, SD card slot and LTE. The 625 CPU and 2GB of RAM kinda limit the performance (3GB version is only available in US), but it's a pretty good upgrade for Nexus 7.
Yeah, seems like only my country got it for some reason. If you're interested, it's the Z581KL-1A042A model, there are a few shops selling it, but I don't know if any ship to other countries.
How are they still using the Nexus 7? I mean, mine didn't outright break, but it sure as hell doesn't have a remotely usable performance. Something with the storage in them degenerating to the point of a cassette drive.
The original model (2012) was pretty terrible as you mention.
The 2013 (with rear facing camera) is still more than usable. I'm more than happy and have bought several over the years. (Rough environments, but £50 used on ebay is doable)
Yes, it slows down quite a bit (2012 model), but it still is the best tablet I've seen.
I don't want any manufacturer "features" on Android, I just want a pure Android experience. And also looking for a replacement for my parents aging Nexus 7.
I had a Nexus 7 (2012) that was barely ever used. Even that became comically slow as dirt. Was really an eye-opener about how bad a lack of attention from a vendor can be. They'd moved onto the next thing and evidently did not care one iota.
I have that last model of Nexus 7 and it still works wonderfully. I love that thing to death. If it had SD slot, it would be perfect. However, there's OTG - so, until it breaks it's wonderful.
Plus, the Pixel C had so much potential for a dream portable Linux machine. It was designed as a ChromeOS device, with Coreboot. But they locked the bootloader before launching with Android.
I have a first gen Samsung S 8.4 tablet and it's miles better than my Nexus 7. I wouldn't hesitate to get another one if my current one broke. It doesn't get anything in the way of OS updates anymore but that hasn't been a problem. Everything works as well as when as I bought it.
I'm also really happy with my Tab A 8.0 with S-Pen.
I thought a smaller tablet with active pen features & microSD slot for ~$225 USD was a bargain, definitely made the iPad Pro look ridiculously overpriced. Unfortunately it seems Samsung never sold the 8" S-Pen model in the US, and have discontinued the S-Pen on the 2017 8" models. It's still on the 10" model though.
In particular the Lenovo Yoga Book is excellent design and build quality. You can get new ones with Android (rather than Windows) on ebay for about $230. The device is a 2-in-1 with keyboard permanently attached, which some will find a plus and some a con. 4GB RAM, 64GB storage, 1.5 lbs, premium build, upgradeable to Android Nougat:
I recently bought a Lenovo Tab 8 Plus as a Nexus 7 replacement, and am fairly happy with it. The screen is excellent and sound is good. It's slightly bigger, but I got used to that quickly.
I disliked the slippery glass back, but a homemade skin (plastic stickyback film) worked great.
I did the same thing. Totally agree with your comment.
The glass back is ridiculously impractical and makes the Tab4 8 Plus slip down from furniture a lot.
If anyone wants to get that tablet make sure to get some sort of case for it. Otherwise it's a decent device and Android feels very close to stock except for a few unnecessary Lenovo apps you can't remove and the software update app which seems to be customized unnecessarily and a little poorly as well.
Also a Nexus 7 user, moved to a Shield, and more recently I bought the regular (not "Plus") variant and I'm also fairly happy with it. It's no gaming tablet (maybe the Plus is?) but I mostly just use it for reading - be it ebooks, websites, or news.
I got a pixelbook a couple of weeks ago and I freaking love it. Before that I had a Yoga 2 pro running arch. I'm using Termux on it to get a local linux environment that doesn't require turning on developer mode. It's good enough for the light coding that I do on it (emacs, clang, cmake). I also use Termux for SSH rather than the chrome extension.
So far it has been amazing. The hardware feels top notch.
I'm a huge pixelbook fan as well. Haven't tried termux, but have been a long time crouton user and it works great on the pixelbook as well.
I have a hardware/software integration gripe though(edge case maybe): when the pixelbook is suspended whilst connected to external displays, if I leave it alone for 30-45m the displays will no longer function on wake up. Have to unplug displays, open pixelbook lid(so it wakes, no response to external keyboard), then reconnect the displays. It's probably not a common use case, but I reported it to google anyhow. No gripes other than that.
Oh man, didn't realize that! So that actually makes it a doable replacement for my MBP once it wears out. Considering I use Codeanywhere as my IDE, I don't really need anything that, but a netbook, like Pixelbook is.
Am I wrong in thinking that Google is crazy to not have a proper linux option for the Pixelbook?
They get alpha geeks away from OSX and Macbooks. They get a platform they can own and leverage. Get the developers, expose them to the tools, let them build stuff, and cross compile it or whatever to ChromeOS and Android.
Have it dual boot into ChromeOS so your family can give it a spin.
Crouton allows exactly that. Except for the limited disk space, I'm a big fan of the ChromeOS/Crouton option. I've used a Toshiba Chromebook 2 (? 1920x1080 screen) as my laptop for many years now.
It's nicer than a dual boot, as you can swap between the runtimes on the fly.
Adding dedicated delete, home, page up, page down, etc. keys would make the chromebooks even better.
ChromeOS does a great job of providing the hardware interface layer.
Furthermore, connecting to a projector on ChromeOS is way less fiddly than fighting with xrandr. (n.b. I've used Fluxbox as my WM since ~2002. Newer interfaces in the Ubuntu strain of things are probably easier/smarter.)
A system usable out of the box by non-technical consumers, as an alternative to a Windows or Mac laptop, or an iPad.
People used to say the same sort of thing about the iPad. You could put Linux on a tablet for half the price. Yes, but only 1% of the population would be able to use it.
Of course Pixels aren’t aimed at ordinary consumers though. They are high end devices aimed at developers, because Google wants to support an active community of highly skilled and capable developers working on apps for the chrome book, or at least ensure that their cross platform web apps are Chromebook compatible and take advantage of the platform’s features. They’re much more likely to do that if they have a Chromebook they actualy enjoy using and do dev work on, rather than just having an extra low end device around for testing.
Just enabling dev mode on a Chromebook is apparently pretty insecure against local exploits [1]. An officially supported way of running Linux could do better than that.
Once you put a chromebook into devmode, you can login as the user 'chronos'. chronos does not have a password, and it has full sudo abilities (so you have root access immediately). Also, verified boot is turned off.
Ok, but what much of the (sadly) uninformed commentary around chromebooks and devmode fails to mention is that you can turn it all back on - and still keep devmode.
There's a simple script left there for you to set a password for chronos, and the big motd thats printed on the console (but not crosh) tells you about it. Run it, choose your password, and those who have physical access no longer have automatic root (or even chronos) access.
Turn verified boot back on, and disable legacy and usb booting. Now you have a machine, still in devmode, thats MORE secure that standard x86 machines.
- you can't boot from external media
- you can't pass args to the internal bootloader, when booting chromeos's kernel, so no more single-user linux kernel tricks (ie: instant root)
- you can't somehow modify the on-board kernel and get past verified boot
Nothing's totally unhackable, but this seems reasonably secure to me ...
Do not think using in dev mode owns you up to any more security issues than and other desktop os. You can also use gnu/Linux without but you are limited as have to use a fake Chroot.
Ideal will be when Google releases the KVM work they have been doing that gives you gnu/Linux without having to use a fake Chroot or put in dev mode.
Why? Google isn't designing ChromeOS to be a platform for developers to target, so there isn't a tonne of advantage to having developers on the platform.
Just to note, booting linux like GaliumOS on Chromebook is not straight forward as enabling developer mode; it causes hardware damage in certain devices due a depthcharge issue.
>Am I wrong in thinking that Google is crazy to not have a proper linux option for the Pixelbook?
You are crazy. The first thing a company like Google has to do when creating a new product is ask themselves how they monetize. It's something Sun Microsystems failed at and subsequently went out of business because of.
Google doesn't make money selling hardware, and has no plans to. They make it by getting people onto google apps and google search. Releasing proper linux support accomplishes neither of those goals. There are way too many people around here who seem to think Google loves Linux. Google loves Linux because it's a means to an end - they're jump started on drivers/hardware support, they have access to source (so they can control their own destiny), and it costs them no money.
They fact they're actively working on replacements for Linxu for their mobile strategy (and it's not open source), should tell you everything you need to know.
Gnu/Linux works fine on a CB but you have to use Crouton and put in developer or use a fake Chroot.
Google is working on making the Linux KVM work in ChromeOS and there was a comment in a commit to stop disabling the KVM as it will be used for Docker support in the future.
This would solve the issue of the work arounds and will make the CB a great GNU/Linux dev machine.
BTW, with Crouton you can use docker containers on CBs. Since Linux kernel they run native.
The main caveat in Pixel C is android, Pixelbook fixes it with ChromeOS.
ChromeOS's window management is far suited for productivity than android and in some cases (IMO) even mainstream desktop operating systems. Android app ecosystem is an added bonus, albeit missing some essential features like HW acceleration, better clipboard management etc.
This is one of the things Microsoft really got right in Windows 10. Tablet mode works well for when you want to have a single app on the screen at a time (and even works for normal desktop apps), while traditional mode works great when you've got a mouse and a keyboard hooked up.
I absolutely love my $65 Samsung Chromebook I got on a Black Friday sale a few weeks ago, and while of course it bogs when I have 15 tabs open, I am constantly surprised at how well it performs even under heavy loading.
The ridiculous price point of the Pixelbook literally makes me laugh out loud. A thousand fucking dollars for a damn Chromebook?? Absurd.
I personally like the $199 price point and would love to see manufactures deliver a kick-ass chromebook at that level....something that almost matches the Pixelbook performance.
> I personally like the $199 price point and would love to see manufactures deliver a kick-ass chromebook at that level....something that almost matches the Pixelbook performance.
That's not going to happen, for obvious reasons. The processor in the Pixelbook costs more than the entire BOM for a $200 laptop.
The Pixelbook is sort of a crazy idea, but it represents Google's belief that ChromeOS can be more than just a cheap option for schools and casual users.
DRAM prices are insane at the moment, so we're going to see manufacturers scrimp on it for a while. Hopefully the price of DRAM should start to ease in the latter part of 2018.
...soon. It will eventually happen, but the question is always, does having the better device now provide more value than saving money now and waiting for the better device to be available at the desired price point?
And by the time the better is available at the desired price point, will we want an even better device, perhaps because applications and our tastes have inevitable ratcheted up to demand even better performance?
Pixelbooks are i5 or i7 with an excellent display. You are not going to find that hardware too much cheaper. They make very good GNu/Linux
dev machines.
Try one think you might be surprised as what Google created.
I mean once you start getting into the upper price range for tablets you might as well start to consider purchasing a 2 in one laptop with a touch screen as well. But it appears as Google has bet on it's various chromebooks to fill the gap between tablet and laptop with providing the features most regular consumers want.
Sigh. I'm building these into a "kiosk"-like application where the great touchscreen, nvidia graphics, and good cpu are awesome.
We sort of knew this would eventually happen but it still sucks.
Developing on Android in Java is pretty gross, esp without rooting.
I would love some sort of vanilla Linux tablet that had something like a 10 year SLA and basic support. Ideally a system with PC architecture hardware that has great support by vanilla linux kernel.
The idea is to reduce your dependency on a Big company that only cares about consumer whims for a couple years at a time.
The UI framework is very counterintuitive and clumsy. Things like Fragments and Activities require you to think about lifecycle events that are surprising. There are multiple official implementations of Fragments owing to the massive fragmentation of the platform.
The built-in UI elements for stuff get you 80% where you need to be, then for the last 20%, you have to basically throw out the built-in implementation and create your own element.
Built-in support for stuff like scrolling data-tables is awful, and the third party ecosystem is even more of a cesspool than HTML5 land. JS devs have no idea how good they have it :)
When interfacing with external hardware, like Bluetooth or USB devices, I have found the official documentation to be very lacking. There's simply not a lot of good documentation out there about under what circumstances your user-space BT or USB driver will be allowed to bind to a device, bypassing any kernel drivers, and when it can't. And this is something I needed to do because you're never quite sure what kernel drivers the particular tablet manufacturer decided to include or modify...
Android studio is incredible bloatware and keeps on growing. Granted, XCode is as well, but that's no excuse.
The Java Language is probably the least painful part of the platform, but it's not much fun either. Glad that Kotlin has become an offical language.
> vanilla Linux tablet that had something like a 10 year SLA and basic support.
Would you be prepared to pay twice as much for it as the cheap tablets that may not be here next year? The production lifetime of a product is determined by the production lifetime of its inputs, and the cheapest components have the least guarantees of anything.
It doesn't actually look too bad. Someone's selling one of the HPs running Windows 10 on ebay. I can't imagine it being maintenance-free over that lifetime though, it would need to be either fanless or regularly cleaned. Thermal paste wears out. Batteries have a 3-5 year lifespan.
Mind you, I'm sitting at work surrounded by ancient point-of-sale hardware that's still in use...
(The iPad, which completely redefined "tablet", came out in 2010!)
There are a huge range of kiosk touch displays that'll connect to standard PC hardware. There are also all-in-one solutions like the AOPEN eTile 19M.
IMO a consumer tablet is absolutely the wrong device for a kiosk application. They don't have the ruggedness, the warranty or the mounting options to provide a reliable and hassle-free installation.
Speaking as the owner of a 1st gen iPad, they have the same obsolescence problem on a slightly longer timescale. It's barely usable, up-updateable, Safari crashes a lot, so I only use it for Spotify.
GPD Pocket fits the bill, although it has a keyboard (but also multi-touch touchscreen) .. runs Ubuntu though, so support shouldn't be a hassle, and its great to write apps for this thing with a full-blown Linux.
> Developing on Android in Java is pretty gross, esp without rooting.
As someone who both writes mainstream Android/Java code and supports rooted Android devices on a daily basis, I would be most curious to hear a more detailed complaint.
Will it still receive updates? I don't own a Pixel C, but I'd just like to know since it bugs me immensely that every device Google delivers is discontinued in less than 3 years. My Nexus 5 was marketed as a stock Android device that would get updates immediately and now it hasn't been receiving updates for 1-2 years. I know that the problem kind of lies with Qualcomm because of some security applications, but it still pains me to see this.
This imo is the same as planned obsolescence. Can we really not get phones that will be supported and working for 5 years or more? Not all of us get a new phone every year like you Americans.
Devices from that fruit company are the best bet as far as I can tell. My 3 year old tablet is still getting updates. My 2 year old phone is too, and I expect it’ll continue getting them for at least another 2 years; my phone before this one got updates for 4 years.
I’ve considered jumping ship many times, but device support seems so poor across the board in Android land I find it hard to justify the move. Like you, I don’t want to buy a new phone every year. I’m watching to see how the Pixel phone support plays out.
It really was the best Android tablet to exist, ever. So much was good about it, though I can't say I'm surprised they've discontinued it.
I won't be buying Google anymore anyway -- combine their discontinue products habit, their contradictory liberal politics (e.g. James Demore memo) and outrageous influence given the amount of information they have has me disliking day-by-day to the point where I refuse to give them my money any longer.
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[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 186 ms ] threadAren't chromebooks (except for the pixelbook which is very nice but not cheap) the direct successors of netbooks ?
Was flying United not long ago and the entertainment system supported on iOS and Android so you could use with a CB but not Windows or Mac laptops. Confused the heck out of the person sitting next to my son. Finally explained to him why it was working on my son's laptop.
I had a friend shopping around for a professional level digital camera recently, and he didn’t realize until I told him that he could buy a 1-2 year old model with near identical specs and save some cash to buy lenses/accessories/etc or just save it.
Second Microsoft freaked, because Vista could not run on them.
End result was that we got a combo of hardware and software that was not fit for anything, along with a bunch of gray-box rebrands (particularly of a certain MSI model).
You and I clearly have very different definitions of "real keyboard".
I've actually been wanting an Android tablet that I can connect a USB mechanical keyboard to (probably an Atreus[0]) as a Chromebook replacement. Problem is, I want vanilla Android (no bloat), and for it to get updates for at least 3 years.
0. https://atreus.technomancy.us/
It used to be ultra-cheap, ultra-small (in all dimensions, not just thickness), underpowered machine running Linux that had just enough oomph to do some basic surfing and e-mail. It was the laptop you brought with you when you didn't want to risk your real laptop. The early eeePC was a perfect example.
Now it's a Chromebook which is pretty much a laptop by another name.
- They currently have an aging nexus 10
- my dad does not want an apple product
If Google had created a new Android tablet instead of the pixelbook, I would have bought it.
The pixelbook looks really nice but I am not sure that the mix of Android and Chromebook will be easy for my parents to pick up.
This model runs Android apps natively, so it has access to all apps in the Play Store. Some weren't converted to take full advantage of large screen resolutions, but so far I haven't found anything that doesn't run.
She had a very short learning curve; in a day or two she was doing everything she used to do with Windows (which wasn't much - email, photos, browsing, spotify, some light printing). The fact she was an Android user probably helped a bit. Also having a touch screen and pen was a huge bonus, so she doesn't have to fiddle with the mouse trying to click on tiny spots.
I considered buying a Pixelbook, but at 2x the price, it was hard to justify considering her use.
(Full disclaimer: I work at Google, but in a different team, not related to hw or Chrome/OS. I purchased the device at the store, full retail price)
Note : I don't own a printer, so I am not entirely sure.
Purchase my wife on at Best buy last week and it was $50 off and came with a regular Google Home.
She loves it but does seem to use it for Animal Crossing with the stylus more than anything.
I think this really only leaves the Samsung S3 as a premium Android tablet out there, which is a shame.
I had high hopes for a Nexus 7 replacement with Pixel branding - and I understand the whole "phablet" argument against a mid-size tablet - but it doesn't sound like that will be the case.
I still use my Nexus 9 (typing this on it)...and skipped the Pixel C due to costs and bad reviews
Google's entire "upscale" Pixel effort seems doomed. The Nexus effort was mostly perfect: decent hardware at attractive prices and stock software with reasonable updates.
Apple commands a premium in part due to Apple Stores being plentiful. When my son cracks his iPhone screen, he walks to the Apple Store and he has a replacement screen in about an hour. What can Google offer? Nothing similar.
Similarly, I know people who buy or lease luxury cars because they know they will get a nice loaner car when they send theirs in for maintenance at the dealership. For example, some of those people really would be satisfied with a Camry, but they spend the extra money on a Lexus ES to get a better service experience.
Note: Not saying I agree, only that not everyone can afford / wants to pay a premium for Apple.
[1] https://chromeunboxed.com/googles-pixelbook-the-target-is-bi...
Questions like warranty, who to ask?
(Disclaimer: I own a first-gen Pixel phone.)
Been surprised how many posters on Reddit shared they purchased one. Couple people also on this thread.
A few years ago, my parents bought Nexus 7 tablets to use as e-readers and for games. At the time, they were obviously the best small Android tablets and the purchase was a no-brainer. If they broke today, I'm not sure what I could recommend as a replacement.
The 2013 (with rear facing camera) is still more than usable. I'm more than happy and have bought several over the years. (Rough environments, but £50 used on ebay is doable)
I don't want any manufacturer "features" on Android, I just want a pure Android experience. And also looking for a replacement for my parents aging Nexus 7.
I thought a smaller tablet with active pen features & microSD slot for ~$225 USD was a bargain, definitely made the iPad Pro look ridiculously overpriced. Unfortunately it seems Samsung never sold the 8" S-Pen model in the US, and have discontinued the S-Pen on the 2017 8" models. It's still on the 10" model though.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/12/lenovo-yoga-book-rev...
I disliked the slippery glass back, but a homemade skin (plastic stickyback film) worked great.
The glass back is ridiculously impractical and makes the Tab4 8 Plus slip down from furniture a lot.
If anyone wants to get that tablet make sure to get some sort of case for it. Otherwise it's a decent device and Android feels very close to stock except for a few unnecessary Lenovo apps you can't remove and the software update app which seems to be customized unnecessarily and a little poorly as well.
So far it has been amazing. The hardware feels top notch.
I have a hardware/software integration gripe though(edge case maybe): when the pixelbook is suspended whilst connected to external displays, if I leave it alone for 30-45m the displays will no longer function on wake up. Have to unplug displays, open pixelbook lid(so it wakes, no response to external keyboard), then reconnect the displays. It's probably not a common use case, but I reported it to google anyhow. No gripes other than that.
They get alpha geeks away from OSX and Macbooks. They get a platform they can own and leverage. Get the developers, expose them to the tools, let them build stuff, and cross compile it or whatever to ChromeOS and Android.
Have it dual boot into ChromeOS so your family can give it a spin.
It's nicer than a dual boot, as you can swap between the runtimes on the fly.
Adding dedicated delete, home, page up, page down, etc. keys would make the chromebooks even better.
Furthermore, connecting to a projector on ChromeOS is way less fiddly than fighting with xrandr. (n.b. I've used Fluxbox as my WM since ~2002. Newer interfaces in the Ubuntu strain of things are probably easier/smarter.)
i lold.
People used to say the same sort of thing about the iPad. You could put Linux on a tablet for half the price. Yes, but only 1% of the population would be able to use it.
Of course Pixels aren’t aimed at ordinary consumers though. They are high end devices aimed at developers, because Google wants to support an active community of highly skilled and capable developers working on apps for the chrome book, or at least ensure that their cross platform web apps are Chromebook compatible and take advantage of the platform’s features. They’re much more likely to do that if they have a Chromebook they actualy enjoy using and do dev work on, rather than just having an extra low end device around for testing.
[1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/06/how-to-install-linux...
Yes this is less secure than the default config.
As far as I know, chromeos has no option for that. Either it has only google's signing keys, or secure-boot is entirely disabled via devmode.
That's clearly a massive step down in security from most modern x86 laptops.
Ok, but what much of the (sadly) uninformed commentary around chromebooks and devmode fails to mention is that you can turn it all back on - and still keep devmode.
There's a simple script left there for you to set a password for chronos, and the big motd thats printed on the console (but not crosh) tells you about it. Run it, choose your password, and those who have physical access no longer have automatic root (or even chronos) access.
Turn verified boot back on, and disable legacy and usb booting. Now you have a machine, still in devmode, thats MORE secure that standard x86 machines.
- you can't boot from external media
- you can't pass args to the internal bootloader, when booting chromeos's kernel, so no more single-user linux kernel tricks (ie: instant root)
- you can't somehow modify the on-board kernel and get past verified boot
Nothing's totally unhackable, but this seems reasonably secure to me ...
Ideal will be when Google releases the KVM work they have been doing that gives you gnu/Linux without having to use a fake Chroot or put in dev mode.
https://wiki.galliumos.org/Support/Braswell
You are crazy. The first thing a company like Google has to do when creating a new product is ask themselves how they monetize. It's something Sun Microsystems failed at and subsequently went out of business because of.
Google doesn't make money selling hardware, and has no plans to. They make it by getting people onto google apps and google search. Releasing proper linux support accomplishes neither of those goals. There are way too many people around here who seem to think Google loves Linux. Google loves Linux because it's a means to an end - they're jump started on drivers/hardware support, they have access to source (so they can control their own destiny), and it costs them no money.
They fact they're actively working on replacements for Linxu for their mobile strategy (and it's not open source), should tell you everything you need to know.
Google is working on making the Linux KVM work in ChromeOS and there was a comment in a commit to stop disabling the KVM as it will be used for Docker support in the future.
This would solve the issue of the work arounds and will make the CB a great GNU/Linux dev machine.
BTW, with Crouton you can use docker containers on CBs. Since Linux kernel they run native.
ChromeOS's window management is far suited for productivity than android and in some cases (IMO) even mainstream desktop operating systems. Android app ecosystem is an added bonus, albeit missing some essential features like HW acceleration, better clipboard management etc.
ChomeOS + android > Android + Chrome browser !
The ridiculous price point of the Pixelbook literally makes me laugh out loud. A thousand fucking dollars for a damn Chromebook?? Absurd.
I personally like the $199 price point and would love to see manufactures deliver a kick-ass chromebook at that level....something that almost matches the Pixelbook performance.
That's not going to happen, for obvious reasons. The processor in the Pixelbook costs more than the entire BOM for a $200 laptop.
The Pixelbook is sort of a crazy idea, but it represents Google's belief that ChromeOS can be more than just a cheap option for schools and casual users.
I think a new cheap and small ARM Chromebook with 8GB would be very attractive option for me as a travel laptop. Sadly I am such a minority...
...soon. It will eventually happen, but the question is always, does having the better device now provide more value than saving money now and waiting for the better device to be available at the desired price point?
And by the time the better is available at the desired price point, will we want an even better device, perhaps because applications and our tastes have inevitable ratcheted up to demand even better performance?
Try one think you might be surprised as what Google created.
We sort of knew this would eventually happen but it still sucks.
Developing on Android in Java is pretty gross, esp without rooting.
I would love some sort of vanilla Linux tablet that had something like a 10 year SLA and basic support. Ideally a system with PC architecture hardware that has great support by vanilla linux kernel.
The idea is to reduce your dependency on a Big company that only cares about consumer whims for a couple years at a time.
The built-in UI elements for stuff get you 80% where you need to be, then for the last 20%, you have to basically throw out the built-in implementation and create your own element.
Built-in support for stuff like scrolling data-tables is awful, and the third party ecosystem is even more of a cesspool than HTML5 land. JS devs have no idea how good they have it :)
When interfacing with external hardware, like Bluetooth or USB devices, I have found the official documentation to be very lacking. There's simply not a lot of good documentation out there about under what circumstances your user-space BT or USB driver will be allowed to bind to a device, bypassing any kernel drivers, and when it can't. And this is something I needed to do because you're never quite sure what kernel drivers the particular tablet manufacturer decided to include or modify...
Android studio is incredible bloatware and keeps on growing. Granted, XCode is as well, but that's no excuse.
The Java Language is probably the least painful part of the platform, but it's not much fun either. Glad that Kotlin has become an offical language.
Would you be prepared to pay twice as much for it as the cheap tablets that may not be here next year? The production lifetime of a product is determined by the production lifetime of its inputs, and the cheapest components have the least guarantees of anything.
It doesn't actually look too bad. Someone's selling one of the HPs running Windows 10 on ebay. I can't imagine it being maintenance-free over that lifetime though, it would need to be either fanless or regularly cleaned. Thermal paste wears out. Batteries have a 3-5 year lifespan.
Mind you, I'm sitting at work surrounded by ancient point-of-sale hardware that's still in use...
(The iPad, which completely redefined "tablet", came out in 2010!)
IMO a consumer tablet is absolutely the wrong device for a kiosk application. They don't have the ruggedness, the warranty or the mounting options to provide a reliable and hassle-free installation.
http://cdn2.blocksassets.com/assets/aopen/aopen/0a5bKLXyDqjI...
https://www.reddit.com/r/GPDPocket/
https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/3134673?hl=en Use a Chromebook as a kiosk - Chromebook Help - Google Support
As someone who both writes mainstream Android/Java code and supports rooted Android devices on a daily basis, I would be most curious to hear a more detailed complaint.
This imo is the same as planned obsolescence. Can we really not get phones that will be supported and working for 5 years or more? Not all of us get a new phone every year like you Americans.
I’ve considered jumping ship many times, but device support seems so poor across the board in Android land I find it hard to justify the move. Like you, I don’t want to buy a new phone every year. I’m watching to see how the Pixel phone support plays out.
I won't be buying Google anymore anyway -- combine their discontinue products habit, their contradictory liberal politics (e.g. James Demore memo) and outrageous influence given the amount of information they have has me disliking day-by-day to the point where I refuse to give them my money any longer.
Nail, meet coffin.