How quickly HN forgets. There are tons of Google-less Android builds. You can even run AOSP (Android Open Source Project) without Googles' binaries. When I want to use something without Google, I use CopperheadOS https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16030391
The CopperheadOS post was 5 days ago and was in the top 10 for the majority of the day. Which also had the original title of being a Google-less Hardened version of Android.
I'm not dismissing that, I'm just stating that we were literally here 5 days ago talking about another alternative. One that already has an entire team backing it and keeping security in mind. There are probably 10s to 100s of different android builds with and without google. There are definitely a few that will outshine others: Cyanogen, Oxygen, Lineage, AOKP, TWRP to name a few that stick out in my mind. It's just funny that not even 5 days later we're back again with another android fork that google-less.
> Unless you are a geek, LineageOS is not realistically usable if you don't want Google inside
Why? LineageOS plus F-Droid with Firefox, OsmAnd~ and Conversations is surprisingly usable.
I agree it could get a bit more polish. But if Eelo is going to be a big effort, maybe he should try to go for a full Linux distro like Jolla sans the closed components. With stuff like Anbox (Android containers) it should be moderately easy to bootstrap an ecosystem.
I like competition, but regarding "Google-less Android alternative" why everyone want to do his own project when this is a niche market with few developers who want to use their time to do this, and even less in the long run?
Why do people don't join their effort to put up something better, faster, safer?
Because phones have in my opinion become a privacy nightmare. I think we all got used to it as the new normal because it happend in lots of tiny steps. However, 30 years ago people would have screamed at being constantly and at every step under surveillance, all their contacts recorded at every moment.
I simply don't think that modern life with smartphones and internet must be like this. I'd like to have my private life back.
Edit: I recently signed up for LinkedIn and it was outright scary which contacts I got suggested. There were people that don't have my email address nor have I ever been in electronic contact with - I just met them plenty of times in real life. Best explanation is that smartphones correlate location and/or bluetooth MAC addresses. In other words, my phone is spying on me. I don't see any reason to give this information to unknown 3rd parties without my consent.
You didn't answer the question though. There are a few dozen linux smartphone projects. Why not join one of them and make it better. By making his own phone OS he is duplicating the work that all those other projects are doing instead of moving a head.
I'm not saying he is wrong for doing this - I know of many competing projects, but nothing more. Maybe there is a good reason not to join them. However my guess is not invented here which holds us back.
Why are there many restaurants often one next to each other? Why can't people get their money together and hire the absolute best chef in the world and build 1 huge restaurant?
That's just how it is.
Also, he's not duplicating anything, he's using LineageOS plus new stuff that will be open source.
The mission statement of the project is "privacy with ease of use but without zealotry" and the project is 99% based on existing projects. That looks to me what Ubuntu is to Debian.
Just by chance I looked the other week into installing LineageOS on a slightly older LG but then decided it was too much hassle - although I have experience with Cyanogen, i.e. it would not be the first time for me to install a custom ROM.
All I use on my phone are maps, email, messaging and a browser. I can easily do without Google Play Services and I am sure there are many others.
He is french and in France there are many people thinking like him. It is easy to get press coverage and therefore should be possible to create a user base of a few 10.000 people with little investment.
Same reason you now have 200+ Linux distributions: people have opinions and disagreements plus free software means everybody can fork a project and do their own thing.
Meanwhile, Windows is still king of the desktop and Android is king of mobile for years to come.
Windows lost that crown years ago. Nowadays many people are using Macs. And most are using Android or iOS for a lot of the same things we used to use Windows for.
Anyway, the last sentence is irrelevant. I honestly don't mind whether you're using Windows or Mac or whatever. Why must it be phrased as a competition? I can use the system most suitable to me and my goals, and you can use the system most suitable for you and yours.
Can you imagine someone saying "There's so many different kinds of bread because people have opinions and disagreement, plus traditional recipes and market freedom means everyone can start their own bakery and do their own thing. Meanwhile, rice is still king of the staples."
My choice to eat bread and run Linux is independent of your choice to eat rice and run Windows.
The point is; if this mission to create a Google-less alternative is so important and necessary, why not join force with the people who are already working on said alternative? Surely, having all these developers working on one project would be more effective than having all of them working on multiple similar projects?
> Windows lost that crown years ago. Nowadays many people are using Macs.
Only rich people in North America and Western Europe, there are many other countries out there, where average salaries hardly reach 500 euros per month.
Mac market share is insignificant outside North America and Western Europe.
Or an android which can properly box apps, i.e. "Yes you can have access to my phonebook (because if I refuse you won't run at all..) but the container you are running in just gives you dummy entries", or not allowing internet access for certain apps.
This is all possible on desktop linux, having that possibility on a rooted Android would make me switch back.
Where can I see the source (or at least the Eelo-specific build scripts for AOSP or any other source details)? I see "in the public interest" and see "we already have first results", but I struggle to find links to the details of what work has been done. Help?
> And as a community project, eelo will welcome contributors.
Google software is in my opinion the best on the market in every aspect, and I would hate to stop using their Chrome, Inbox, Photos, Maps, and Keep apps.
I'm also not sure if the way Google looks like they're using information is that much worse than all the stuff people deliberately publish on Facebook.
I don't feel spied, and one is free to stop sending info at any time (unlike let's say in China or North Korea, where they have an actual problem).
Google makes my life about 1000 times easier, if the trade-off is that they use some of that info to for showing relevant ads that I block on every device (including in-app ads with AdGuard), it's fine for me right now.
"I don't feel spied" -- good for you! The point is, it's great that you're in love with Google and you don't mind being spied upon, however, there are a lot of other people who cannot wait for something like this and indeed care about privacy of their information.
28 comments
[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 69.6 ms ] threadThe article even mentions others.
> Unless you are a geek, LineageOS is not realistically usable if you don't want Google inside
Why? LineageOS plus F-Droid with Firefox, OsmAnd~ and Conversations is surprisingly usable.
I agree it could get a bit more polish. But if Eelo is going to be a big effort, maybe he should try to go for a full Linux distro like Jolla sans the closed components. With stuff like Anbox (Android containers) it should be moderately easy to bootstrap an ecosystem.
Why do people don't join their effort to put up something better, faster, safer?
Edit: I recently signed up for LinkedIn and it was outright scary which contacts I got suggested. There were people that don't have my email address nor have I ever been in electronic contact with - I just met them plenty of times in real life. Best explanation is that smartphones correlate location and/or bluetooth MAC addresses. In other words, my phone is spying on me. I don't see any reason to give this information to unknown 3rd parties without my consent.
I'm not saying he is wrong for doing this - I know of many competing projects, but nothing more. Maybe there is a good reason not to join them. However my guess is not invented here which holds us back.
That's just how it is.
Also, he's not duplicating anything, he's using LineageOS plus new stuff that will be open source.
Just by chance I looked the other week into installing LineageOS on a slightly older LG but then decided it was too much hassle - although I have experience with Cyanogen, i.e. it would not be the first time for me to install a custom ROM.
All I use on my phone are maps, email, messaging and a browser. I can easily do without Google Play Services and I am sure there are many others.
He is french and in France there are many people thinking like him. It is easy to get press coverage and therefore should be possible to create a user base of a few 10.000 people with little investment.
Meanwhile, Windows is still king of the desktop and Android is king of mobile for years to come.
Anyway, the last sentence is irrelevant. I honestly don't mind whether you're using Windows or Mac or whatever. Why must it be phrased as a competition? I can use the system most suitable to me and my goals, and you can use the system most suitable for you and yours.
Can you imagine someone saying "There's so many different kinds of bread because people have opinions and disagreement, plus traditional recipes and market freedom means everyone can start their own bakery and do their own thing. Meanwhile, rice is still king of the staples."
My choice to eat bread and run Linux is independent of your choice to eat rice and run Windows.
Only rich people in North America and Western Europe, there are many other countries out there, where average salaries hardly reach 500 euros per month.
Mac market share is insignificant outside North America and Western Europe.
This is all possible on desktop linux, having that possibility on a rooted Android would make me switch back.
> And as a community project, eelo will welcome contributors.
Sure...oh, "will"...well, can I at least watch?
I'm also not sure if the way Google looks like they're using information is that much worse than all the stuff people deliberately publish on Facebook.
I don't feel spied, and one is free to stop sending info at any time (unlike let's say in China or North Korea, where they have an actual problem).
Google makes my life about 1000 times easier, if the trade-off is that they use some of that info to for showing relevant ads that I block on every device (including in-app ads with AdGuard), it's fine for me right now.