right, riding the Tesla keyword is so 2010, they should have gone with MLsuit.io or blockchainSuit.io. Okay it felt good to write, go ahead and downvote me you mofos
So now we can have true sexual assault in VR. I wonder what safeguards will be created by developers to mitigate that. I wonder what legal ramifications there will be for touching someone without consent, if any, and what kind of exposure to liability developers will have.
A real issue that should be considered before the technology is actually upon us. I do think that the emphasis shouldn't be on CYA legal concerns, but rather on ensuring that the hardware and software environments being built aren't alienating to roughly half of your userbase (women).
If the VPL DataSuit failed to find success, I doubt that this "suit" will either.
Honestly, things seem to be moving in the opposite direction; wireless HMDs (or integrated processors), on-board outward-looking 6DOF tracking for the head/body positioning, plus similar tracking for the hands (no "datagloves" needed) - and ultimately the arms (ragdoll physics + IK)...
Ultimately, people want to wear less stuff to get into a VR world, not more. If the HMD could be ditched (or be made even less obtrusive than it currently is - which is, IMHO, light-years ahead of where things were back in the 1990s) - people might (big if) flock to it in droves.
Still...there's a lack of a "killer app" for VR. Gaming doesn't seem to be it, yet (a large part of this is the "total buy in" dollar amount needed - it's just too much except for the hard-core players, at best). Social apps don't seem to have gained much traction, either. VR porn seems to be a lost cause as well.
If VR can't make inroads with a "killer function" - it likely will just die on the vine for the second time, unfortunately.
You seem to be affiliated with them. My advice would be to demo asap and as much a possible. I am sure it is hard with a suit like that, but it's the only way people aren't gonna think it is vaperware.
as neat as this (likely vaporware) would be, i feel like just starting with something powerglove-esque and then extending up the arms would be easier and capture most of the value.
also, only two sensors per arm seems like it would leave it difficult to measure forearm twist. maybe they expect to recover that from touch controller orientation information?
I think if I was after experiences that immersive, and willing to go to that much trouble, then I would take up paintball, or join the society for creative anachronism or something.
That's not the way trademarks work.. Tesla has a trademark only in the fields they compete in: solar, cars, batteries. They can't stop you from starting Tesla Coffee Shop, or (in this case) Tesla VR suit.
Tesla VR suit name is creating a recipe for failure: if you think you can make a long-term viable VR suit company without ever using batteries (always tethered!) limits future growth potential greatly.
I was mostly being facetious, but the reality is that things are a little more complicated than that in the trademark business.
The court will start by asking one question along the lines of, "Is there a good chance that a typical customer in the market for either product will be confused regarding the origin of the goods?" The weasel words in that question will leave plenty of room for argument on both sides.
(IANAL, but have had cause to look into this question recently.)
> Imagine a fully integrated, computer-free version, streaming content directly to the user’s virtual/augmented reality system, that would work together with Teslasuit and Teslaglove models remotely and wirelessly. Revolutionary streaming service SDK will blow your mind with it unlimited possibilities, provided on most high level ever.
Pffffft. All of this reads like imaginary, aspirational nonsense. Just someone tossing ideas onto a webpage.
> Platforms
> Native SDK for main platforms such as Linux, Windows and even Mac.
I appreciate that 2018's vaporware is prioritizing the Linux desktop.
You should probably consider putting these and any other similar content you have front and center on the website. As it is now it looks a little thin on actual proof and comes off sounding a bit vaporware-ish.
Every thread about something cool has a bunch of posts filled with unfounded skepticism.
Do you have a good reason to claim it's vaporware, or is it just cool to be controversial on HN? What does your pointless pessimism and negativity add to the conversation?
HN is a community of hackers who like tech, creating stuff, and building the future. Let's get excited about the new things and support our colleagues, instead of just instinctively dismissing anything new.
I don't think that's a fair accusation. I've been reading hacker news for several years and this is maybe the second time I've seen a new product and my first thought was "vaporware". There is something about the renderings and the half-baked content that gives off a strong sense of not being close to production. We could be wrong, but it does at least indicate that they need to do something about their public facing site if so.
What it adds to the conversation? That if you want to back such projects, you'd better be prepared to lose your money. There is no mention of crowdsourcing and preorders yet but if it happens, you have been warned.
I don't mean it is a scam, but it is definitely high risk. In fact I can only imagine to see it succeed if it is backed by a 800lb gorilla with money to burn. The obvious one would be the military.
The skepticism is well founded. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, put or shut up if you prefer.
This is a marketing page, there's been more than enough recent scams built on nothing but high quality marketing pages that you'd be incredibly gullible to believe them.
Any news from CES 2018? According to the blog it was meant to be unveiled there but I haven't seen anyone covering it.
I think this is snark, but I'm curious for a serious answer to this question. Tesla is such a loaded name in the tech space, you can't possibly hope to keep that in the brand.
• Sizing wise, how're you thinking to handle different sized people. For example, I'm about 155cm (just over "5 foot" in imperial). That's fairly short compared to many North Americans.
• Power and signal transport. On the YouTube video there seems to be a back attachment with a WiFi logo. Does that mean the suit itself will be untethered (battery powered)?
• If it's untethered, do you have estimates for how long it'll generally go between charges (for the first generation)?
• Will the SDK and/or drivers be Open Source (of any license)?
Sizing: we are creating different sizes from XS to XXL
Power and signal transport: Teslasuit fully untethered. Signal transmitting via Wi-FI.
Battery is enough for 3-4 days of gaming (approx. 25-32 hours)
SDK: not now, but we are thinking in this direction.
Thanks. Hopefully for the arms at least, the sensors can be some moved around.
Even with "standard" sizes like that, I always need to get clothes tailored as the arms and legs are still too long. :)
Open Sourcing drivers/SDK wise: If you need someone to bounce ideas off of or just discuss things, you're welcome to ping me (justin@postgresql.org). Happy to sign reasonable NDA (etc) if needed.
What is your concern with the carmaker's name? Branded as an 'all electric' carmaker, so a name that evokes electricity seems fairly appropriate. Does feel a bit odd to be using a dead mans name for your company though.
In any case, it should be impossible to trademark a name like "Tesla", because it is a common term in electrical engineering and transportation (Tesla wasn't the first company making electric cars).
Especially since Elon Musk is known for creating companies that have nothing to do with the car -- SpaceX, Neuralink. Amusingly, Elon does not tack on "Tesla" in front of his other companies / products (like Apple and their use of the "i") -- so this is actually a good indicator that Teslasuit is not connected to him.
But how much of the company's limited energy are they going to waste correcting public perception when they'd be much better served by a better name anyway?
Tesla (the car company) also probably picked this name because the scientist's reputation (as an "under-apreciated genius of electricity") would bolster their electric car brand with their target audience. I don't see an issue.
i think a "haptic suit" is a good invention for the visually impaired. The suit could give you feedback when you body is near an object of when someone is approaching from behind, etc.
How heavy is the battery? or do you have to stay connected to the wall outlet?
The only climate control system I am aware of that can be used in this setting are Peltier effect based systems, and they are dogs in term of energy consumption if you can't put fan or other thermal pump.
108 comments
[ 4.2 ms ] story [ 172 ms ] threadNot sure that naming it tesla was a good idea though.
Honestly, things seem to be moving in the opposite direction; wireless HMDs (or integrated processors), on-board outward-looking 6DOF tracking for the head/body positioning, plus similar tracking for the hands (no "datagloves" needed) - and ultimately the arms (ragdoll physics + IK)...
Ultimately, people want to wear less stuff to get into a VR world, not more. If the HMD could be ditched (or be made even less obtrusive than it currently is - which is, IMHO, light-years ahead of where things were back in the 1990s) - people might (big if) flock to it in droves.
Still...there's a lack of a "killer app" for VR. Gaming doesn't seem to be it, yet (a large part of this is the "total buy in" dollar amount needed - it's just too much except for the hard-core players, at best). Social apps don't seem to have gained much traction, either. VR porn seems to be a lost cause as well.
If VR can't make inroads with a "killer function" - it likely will just die on the vine for the second time, unfortunately.
2. ???
3. Profit!
https://neuronmocap.com/
No chest bouncing sensors though, unfortunately...
https://neuronmocap.com/content/product/perception-neuron-li...
But, pretty much Windows only. :(
They do have one demo + their data reading SDK also working on OSX. Not really sure if that should be considered real OSX support though:
https://neuronmocap.com/downloads
Reading the license in the SDK, it's 100% proprietary. My interest completely died at that point.
At least get your brand name right...
It doesn't leave the greatest first impression.
also, only two sensors per arm seems like it would leave it difficult to measure forearm twist. maybe they expect to recover that from touch controller orientation information?
But seriously, that's probably the first thing I'd go for with regards to temp control. Elite cockpits look like a sauna if you overheat your ship.
Orherwise... ouch... fire ants.
Edit: Note that despite the differences between TENS and NMES do not extend to the effects of bad contact.
Trademarks don't get you rights to every market that utilizes the type of item you sell.
A dash of legal ambiguity is often enough for a deep-pocketed company to cause a lot of pain, regardless of the letter of the law.
There is no battery trademark category. Only electronics, which covers both batteries and this suit.
So yes, they do need to change their name.
The court will start by asking one question along the lines of, "Is there a good chance that a typical customer in the market for either product will be confused regarding the origin of the goods?" The weasel words in that question will leave plenty of room for argument on both sides.
(IANAL, but have had cause to look into this question recently.)
Those are not trademark categories. Here's a list:
http://www.tmweb.com/trademark_classes.asp
In particular note Class 09, which covers solar and batteries AND this haptic suit.
> Imagine a fully integrated, computer-free version, streaming content directly to the user’s virtual/augmented reality system, that would work together with Teslasuit and Teslaglove models remotely and wirelessly. Revolutionary streaming service SDK will blow your mind with it unlimited possibilities, provided on most high level ever.
Pffffft. All of this reads like imaginary, aspirational nonsense. Just someone tossing ideas onto a webpage.
> Platforms
> Native SDK for main platforms such as Linux, Windows and even Mac.
I appreciate that 2018's vaporware is prioritizing the Linux desktop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG5bOsUFb-4
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2-cEEu3ZHU
You should probably consider putting these and any other similar content you have front and center on the website. As it is now it looks a little thin on actual proof and comes off sounding a bit vaporware-ish.
Genuine LOL
Do you have a good reason to claim it's vaporware, or is it just cool to be controversial on HN? What does your pointless pessimism and negativity add to the conversation?
HN is a community of hackers who like tech, creating stuff, and building the future. Let's get excited about the new things and support our colleagues, instead of just instinctively dismissing anything new.
I couldn’t make a more buzzword-y, vaporware-sounding sentence unless I added the words “crypto” and “AI“ to it somehow.
I don't mean it is a scam, but it is definitely high risk. In fact I can only imagine to see it succeed if it is backed by a 800lb gorilla with money to burn. The obvious one would be the military.
This is a marketing page, there's been more than enough recent scams built on nothing but high quality marketing pages that you'd be incredibly gullible to believe them.
Any news from CES 2018? According to the blog it was meant to be unveiled there but I haven't seen anyone covering it.
If you're at CES, it is in the bottom floor of the Sands just behind the Israel section.
Denis, Teslasuit Marketing Director here. Looking forward to your questions!
as for feedback for users - we have it on Youtube - just google it by keyword phrase "Teslasuit VR haptic suit at DevGAMM 2017 Minsk"
as for prefix Tesla - we using it due to the fact that we are using current (EMS and TENS) to provide haptic (sense of touch)
as for electricity: yes, we are using TENS and EMS to provide haptic sensations
as for security: yes. we have 2 security system built in the Teslasuit (software level and hardware level)
PS. I can't answer so fast to other questions due to limitation of the Hacker News, but promise - I will answer to all your questions a bit more later
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG5bOsUFb-4
https://youtu.be/BBePpDsdzLw?t=148
• Sizing wise, how're you thinking to handle different sized people. For example, I'm about 155cm (just over "5 foot" in imperial). That's fairly short compared to many North Americans.
• Power and signal transport. On the YouTube video there seems to be a back attachment with a WiFi logo. Does that mean the suit itself will be untethered (battery powered)?
• If it's untethered, do you have estimates for how long it'll generally go between charges (for the first generation)?
• Will the SDK and/or drivers be Open Source (of any license)?
Even with "standard" sizes like that, I always need to get clothes tailored as the arms and legs are still too long. :)
Open Sourcing drivers/SDK wise: If you need someone to bounce ideas off of or just discuss things, you're welcome to ping me (justin@postgresql.org). Happy to sign reasonable NDA (etc) if needed.
What if I used "Turing" as the name of my cybersecurity/AI company?
Even still, two wrongs don't make a right.
In any case, it should be impossible to trademark a name like "Tesla", because it is a common term in electrical engineering and transportation (Tesla wasn't the first company making electric cars).
Only if the car was (somehow) powered via alternating current (bonus points if via wireless energy transfer, for obvious reasons).
I'm actually not sure what the motor tech in the Tesla vehicles are; likely some kind of 3-phase BLDC (or maybe synchronous AC).
So I guess in a way, it is "AC" at some point in the powertrain.
:)
It's a simple misconception to correct, though.
https://twitter.com/real_teslasuit/status/950838538416873472
The only climate control system I am aware of that can be used in this setting are Peltier effect based systems, and they are dogs in term of energy consumption if you can't put fan or other thermal pump.
2005: http://www.mindwire-v5.com/home.html
2007: https://www.geek.com/games/new-gaming-vest-allows-players-to...
2010: https://www.wired.com/2010/03/gaming-vest-makes-virtual-figh...
http://www.korfx.com/
and on and on and on