Ask HN: Why aren't I getting responses to my Who Is Hiring applications?
Hi everyone,
I've applied for dozens of jobs in the Who Is Hiring Jan 2018 thread, like I do every month. As always, I am ignored 95% of the time, with the other 5% of jobs responding "nice stuff, we'll keep in touch". The sentiment is nice, but obviously doesn't pay the bills.
The reason I'm asking is because I consider myself pretty talented. I do fullstack dev and I also design. (If you're curious you can see my resume here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VijR1MF6xDNzH9IPrsv2UxLeC8sZ8nSF2Eux7lkuYQ8/edit and my design work here: www.beaver.digital).
Are other applicants just ridiculously more skilled than I am? Or am I doing/assuming something wrong? What has been the experience of others?
Thanks.
71 comments
[ 4.0 ms ] story [ 142 ms ] threadYou've done great work, but the resume doesn't highlight it.
The thing that stands out to me is that you say since 2013 you've been the founder and sole employee at Fractals, and if I'm reading correctly, it's at least $200K in revenue a year.
I didn't check out the business, and I don't know how much profit you're making. But I wonder how you divide your time between that and a "normal" job?
As far as the "Who's Hiring" threads, they are mostly 9-5 jobs (or more).
I don't know why people aren't contacting you, but I will say I have looked at a lot of resumes, and that's not a common thing to see. I think it should be a positive sign, but it might also be a signal that your interest is split. It's expensive to hire someone, so maybe they think you might leave if your business takes off (and maybe they wonder why you even want to work at a normal job if you have that much revenue).
Honestly, a lot of companies don't want to hire generalists... they want to hire specialists. I imagine startups should want to hire generalists more.
I do agree with you that I should aim the resume towards more of a single specialization instead of an "I do it all" approach—so I will revisit that. Thank you so much!
Nobody wants a competent employee in 2018. They want badass, unicorn, ninja rockstars!
There's nothing "wrong" with you. It's just that the minimum bar is higher than you imagined. Keep hustling and you can clear it.
Suggested reading: Average is over, by Tyler Cowen
Thank you!
From interviewing people for sit-down in-person contracting positions at big companies in silicon valley proper? Finding someone who is just competent is quite difficult, even when offering much better money than 'startups' tend to offer.
As for the unicorn ninja rockstar thing, I'm pretty sure that's just startup talk for "We want someone enthusiastic and confident" - which usually means they have to lower their expectations in other areas (which is part of why they shoot for early career folks;)
In its current state it's a very bare document and to me looks more like a bullet outline of a resume. This could mean you come off as not having put a lot of effort into making it. Obviously don't overdo it, but making it look like a professional document will give you a much better starting point. When I opened the link, I had to come back to the Ask HN post to see if you had stripped the styling from your resume.
You clearly have a wealth of experience in a number of fields, don't let the formatting let you down. Your resume is supposed to advertise you and make you sound appealing. I agree with tlb's suggestion to get rid of the 'limited work experience' footnote, it's not doing you any favours.
> revenues of multiple 6 figures annually.
With revenues of $100,000+ or similar. An actual number would stick out more.
Also as someone else has noted, get rid of the apologetic footnote.
Others have given you fantastic feedback on the resume itself, so I won’t go there. But I wanted to point out how easy it is to add in extraneous details while speaking that can undermine otherwise solid interviews. The above could have the entire middle cut out and say “Extremely helpful. I’ll revisit - thank you” and an interviewer would see it as being open to feedback and a net positive. With your original statement, they’d see “lacks confidence in design skills, but mentioned design skills. Wonder what other listed skills they’re not sure about” and the positive component of being open to feedback would be lost.
Your openness may just be due to this not being an interview environment. But wanted to point it out just in case. :)
If anything, add some context to the education to explain a bit about what the degree entailed.
> Web application development (ReactJS & VueJS). Java API development.
^^ Doesn't really tell me much about what you did. Java API? What framework? Did you design the Interface or just implement it? Details!!
- One page for cold or warm leads, such as whose hiring threads or online application. Two pages at most, for familiar leads (such as 2nd day interviews), such as "hey, we're looking for someone like you, if you shoot me your resume I can pass it on". The difference here is detail on positions.
- Keep education short and to the point. School, degree, program, and anything of note. GPA if it matters (say Business and Accounting) or is of note (3.5+)
- Highlight competent skills. Angular JS implies Javascript. Only list stuff that you are fine jumping into doing. I can do networking, but at a Jr. level. It's not on highlighted on my resume. Nobody cares about something you can kinda do well. You're not being hired on that.
- Buzzwords, in moderation, are your friend. People, myself included, will scan until something pops out.
- Focus on work experience. Describe what you did at the role. Describe your responsibilities. Describe your performance and accomplishments. Describe why you remained employed. Think of this as the 30 seconds to pickup someone at a bar. Give information, but leave room for them to be able to ask you about yourself. This is what you will be interviewed off of. When you are talking to someone- they have seen your resume and think you can work for them- they are trying to figure out if you have what they need. If your resume doesn't appear to be what they are looking for, they will move on. "Java?" "API Development?" "Spring Framework?"
"Increased application performance by 20% in some cases while rewriting ORM" will not only be impressive, but the person reading will want to know more, like how and what you did. The previous statement shows an impressive accomplishment, while implying you know what you are doing and you can bring it to them, and also brings a tangible number. Follow ups could be, "What did you do to increase performance?" "How did you rewrite the ORM?" "How did you measure the performance increase?" "What cases did you see a performance increase?"
"Build a Java API" leaves too much to question and doesn't tell much about what you did. There is too much to follow up on, and there is a good chance that they won't waste the effort. A better line would be "Implemented a high performance Java API using the Spring framework on top of an existing application for internal customers." That gives more information, some details, and leaves room for the interviewer to ask questions.
My work experience is limited because of my involvement with Fractals. I am a highly trained and experienced software engineer—please don’t take my limited experience as a reflection of skill.
Remove the word "interests" from the section titled Skills/interests. Remove repetitive and vague phrases. You say over and over that you have substantial experience in various things. It is a meaningless phrase to start with, made worse by overuse.
Move the education section to the end of the document. You currently have it at the top. It isn't irrelevant, but it isn't the first thing people should see either.
Remove this: Passionate about learning and using technology to solve problems. It is not useful on a resume. Replace that line with one specifying in a nutshell what your qualifications are, such as Programmer and designer specialized in Fractals.
I think the format of you current work experience section could be greatly improved - the dates could come first - at the moment they appear to wrap over on to the next line - not good for a designer!
There are a number of other ways the CV could be greatly improved.
Once you've sorted your CV then I would consider where you are applying. You should perhaps consider applying through agencies or directly for advertised jobs. Also use tools like GlassDoor and Stack jobs.
Good luck!
Describe what you've done with your skills. What have you machined? What hardware did you design? What did you weld? At the companies you worked at, what specifically did you do? A feature for the website? Which one?
If you're applying for a programming role, don't lead with your seemingly not-directly-related BA. Put it at the bottom.
Basically, after reading your resume I don't feel I know anything about what you've actually done. That's my biggest problem.
Your site has blinking headlines, which imho looks very amateurish. Also, skilled web designers are a dime to a dozen. Skilled programmers on the other hand are much rarer.
Good luck with your job hunt! Not giving up is the key!
Is it true that skilled designers are rarer than skilled developers? Having done both I'd say they both present their own unique challenges.
"Fluent" "Proficient" "Substantial" "Professional experience" are all "filler" words/phrases that add no value, remove them.
A resume should be clear about:
1: exactly what sort of job are you wanting? "Seeking full time salaried JavaScript/Java developer". Be clear so that the reader knows if you fit that job that they have in mind whilst they are reading your resume. 2: What are your current, primary technical skills that you have substantial skill with - do NOT list every technology your have written a few lines of code with. Focus.
There's no right or wrong about this, but I don't like ultra short resumes. If you spent time getting educated or working on large projects then this is your opportunity to sell me on yourself. I feel like short resumes mean you haven't done much or are not very good at articulating technical topics.
It makes no sense to me that someone would have a dry, ultra short, black and white resume which includes a link at the bottom to the folio of an apparently entirely different person. Why not have screenshots and discussions of your projects in your resume.
Where is the phone number? Hopefully you are not applying for jobs by sending a link to this online document. When you apply for a job, email the resume document in PDF or Word format and make sure it includes a phone number. As a recruiter I am far too busy to be bothered emailing people who provide only an email address as their primary mechanism of contact. 999/1000 resumes include a phone number.
Right!
I've been on both sides of a question based on an old/weak skill, in an interview.
I've heard conflicting advice on that. Is an objective really necessary? I have more than one thing that I"m interested in, so there's more than one reason I could be really excited for a job. It seems like that statement might be too specific for general applications, and not specific enough to explain why I'm excited about that one job. It sounds like something I would put in a cover letter or email.
Sorry for the insubstantive comment, but wow. I've read about 10 and it was honestly a bit of a struggle
I find this one especially funny, being constantly spammed by unsollicitated recruiters asking for a phone number to "discuss opportunities". My answer is usually "if you have a good offer, write down the specifics without hiding stuff and sent it by email. As a developper with a good full time job and a social life, I am far too busy to be bothered on the phone for no good reason."
I can't understand this belief that phone is faster and more convenient. Real-time interactions are disruptive, and if you don't agree on a timeframe (using async communication like email...), Most of the time the phone call will be made at a wrong time, causing frustration for everyone.
So, not giving a phone number before some fruitful written exchange is a great way to check if a recruiter care enough about efficiency and other people's time. If not, well, too bad.
If you are trying to dodge calls from unsolicited recruiters then of course you don't want the recruiter to be calling you.... you want to deflect them with "send me an email with your opportunity and I'll think about it and call you back", which is to say "Go away".
Hey there its Andrew Stuart here, I have a job on at the moment that looks like it might be a fit for what you're doing, are you considering new jobs at the moment? No? OK thanks for taking the call.
I honestly cannot imagine what recruiter under any circumstances, has the time or motivation to call people up for any other reason.
The plain and simple reason that we don't use email to drive the recruiting process is that it's a stupid way to operate - no one gets back to you iof you send an email, whether or not they are in fact looking for work. If you need to get the job done you call people.
There's no sinister ulterior motivate. Sheesh.
""Hey there, filthy recruiter here. Heh heh heh. Tell me now....... what religion are you!!!!! Hmmmmm..... what sex are you!!!???? Ohhhh!!!! Well, I'll file that VERY useful piece of information away thanks you, glad you gave it up so easily.. Hee hee hee.""
Doesn't happen.
And, replying to your edit, most people can actually tell if they are speaking to a man or a woman and some can even detect accents so they don't need to ask (like they would have to if they were using text communication).
In the case of the advice given to OP to give their phone number because recruiters won't use their contact email, it's situational. If the resume is good enough and the position not easy to fill, the recruiter will use the email, because it would be unprofessional in these conditions to pass on a good applicant just because of lazyness.
If you work for a company where good applicants are legion and you can be that picky, well, considering the competition in the space, lucky you ^^'
Now, for the prospection case, I don't think the reason for trying to go for the phone call is data collection. Point is, emails get people to think. A developer considering changing jobs will read them, but only reply if the content is tempting enough: company clearly stated, guarantees that everything will be great (recruiting process, salary, advantages, work environment...) However let's face it, most jobs are average / low bar, and developers knowing their worth won't even consider them. So recruiters who aren't lucky enough to have dream jobs amongst there clients have two options: - refusing to work for companies with low standards, and specialize in giving only good positions. This is a risky long game, requires investment in assessing the companies, then building trust and reputation. - forget about it, and play the numbers game. This is the setting where phone calls are more "efficient": it's all commercial techniques, don't give away much, favor direct contact to force people to agree to things they wouldn't if they had all the data and thinking time. This produces more matchings, so more money for the recruiter. Downside: it allows companies with crappy practices to still get a share of the applicants' pool, especially if they can afford a big turnover anyway.
Note: of course you can consider that playing the numbers is what gives you food, so, too bad for the developers who wasted time in crappy recruitment processes or even crappy jobs because of that. And I'm not saying all the pairings are for crappy jobs anyway, you can also have average or underestimated ones that just don't stand out in the market.
My point here is mostly that no, using email isn't a stupid way to get the job done, it's efficient if what you have to offer is demonstrably good. If your job offers are unattractive though, that's when you need to use phone calls and persuasive techniques.
And that's the reason I refuse discussions made through phone or in person contact right at the beginning: it doesn't let me fact check and explore options, and I may be pushed to agree to a pointless interview just because of a good "salesman recruiter". It's a waste of time.
Some things you can do:
Write about technical projects you did for your company... write them up a little like they were different jobs, formatting wise. At least in the sysadmin world it really helps to make sure you include the keywords for the tools you used in those projects.
Remove the apology for the lack of experience... if you can list good projects you did for fractals, you won't need to apologize or plead, it will show what you were doing.
One way of thinking about it, depending on what sort of job you are applying for, is that you are trying to re-cast your experience at your company as employee work. I mean, I technically have been an employee of prgmr.com for the last decade. That's absolutely true, and the IRS can verify, even though I have also been majority owner for most of that time. Most technical jobs don't actually care that you are 'entrepreneurial' - they care about your technical abilities, so recast on that, if you are applying for an employee job.
Fundamentally? that's the problem with trying to get employee work after working for yourself. You need to convince your boss you actually were doing something during your period of self employment - that you weren't just unemployed.
The next problem, of course, is convincing the boss that you will focus on their company and not yours, but in my experience, that comes up after they are already interested. You need to be prepared for the question, though; I've definitely bombed some interviews because I was not.
1. You have a very broad and varied background, with experience doing a lot of different things. This is a Good Thing in general, BUT... a lot of companies just don't know how to use (or hire) somebody like you. Usually they have a req for a (very) specific position, and a list of (very, maybe overly) specific skills and experience they are expecting to find in the "right candidate". It's hard for them to translate from your resume to their way of thinking.
It's an indictment of the company more than you, but you have to accommodate reality. My advice would be to pick some "thing" that is going to be your specialty (front end development with React, backend development with Java, hardware stuff, whatever) and make that the clear focus of your resume, with everything else mentioned as just sort of an "extra" or "bonus". Hell, go so far as to even put a "Bonus Skills" section on your resume and say "In addition to the above, you'll also be getting somebody who can do: <foo>, <bar>, <baz>, <etc>".
Note that if you take this approach it's probably even more true that you may want to tailor your resume to match the position your applying for.
2. Your work on Fractals. It's not clear from your resume how important that is to you and how much of your time it takes up. A potential employer may be wondering if they're getting somebody who's going to be more focused on their own thing, than their work for $EMPLOYER. I don't have a definite answer for how to deal with that, even though I've had to deal with the exact same issue. All I can say is, try to find a way to make it clear that you truly have full-time availability (assuming you actually do) and will be committing to work at $EMPLOYER full-time despite the presence of Fractals. OR, if you really don't want to work full-time, say so outright. Just note that not a lot of companies want to hire part-time people. If you really want to go that route, you might have more success setting up shop as a freelancer and do corp-to-corp contracting.
Edit:
It just occurred to me that, while most resume experts in this day and age recommend against having an "objective" on your resume, you might well benefit from that. Imagine this:
Objective: full-time employment as a front-end web development specialist using React, Javascript and related technologies.
That would serve two ends: by putting "full-time" in there explicitly it could help assuage concerns about your availability w/r/t Fractals, and the rest helps nail down exactly what it is you're looking to do. Then tune the rest of your resume to provide support for the idea that you are, indeed, qualified to do "front-end web development specialist using React, Javascript and related technologies" (or whatever you put down in the objective).
For example, "Fluent in Javascript ES6. Proficient in Java, other common languages, and several web frameworks," tells nothing about what you actually did to benefit an employer or use a technology.
Your website www.getfractals.com and https://beaver.digital/ looks beautiful and works well, with your C.V. your marketing yourself just as you would market a company, make your C.V. hip like your websites
Also do as many comments suggest here, reorder things, i think your website and fractal experience is a huge selling point, My games probably got me a job here at Weta doing visual effects, Also Weta is hiring https://careers.wetafx.co.nz/jobs?search=&sort=recent
Your experience developing fractals would be useful e.g. in writing Shaders here in Visual effects i'm sure.
I agree you should try and tailor to a specific job e.g. that might mean removing things about hardware/fabrication if its not relevant to a job and adding other things that are.