Ask HN: Moving to Tokyo as a software engineer
I have noticed that there are many folks living in Japan as a software engineer on here, and I figured this would be one of the best places to ask this.
How hard is it to find work in Tokyo for someone that does not speak Japanese? I'm in my mid-20s, at the 'senior' level equivalent at a FAANG company, and willing to take a pay cut for the experience.
30 comments
[ 41.7 ms ] story [ 406 ms ] threadAlthough Everyday life could be difficult without knowing a little of Japanese language and renting apartment is quite expensive at the start.
If you want to stay longer, the only option through marriage.
Will look into this, thanks!
To be honest, if you really are that senior, it would be much easier and financially rewarding to work in China if you are interested in Asia.
Unfortunately, money isn't as much the issue. I can afford and would be willing to live in Tokyo for a couple years and work on side projects, but this is not possible visa-wise.
If all you want to do is work away there and you aren't concerned about pay, maybe you could get a job as a visiting researcher or teacher.
They have very affordable tuition (compared to college), they will take care of the visa for you, up to 2 years, you will have half the day and the weekends off, to see the country and/or work on side projects on your own, and you will be learning the language to boot.
Here are the prices they gave me for the Intercultural Institute of Japan, at their Iidabashi or Akihabara centres, both in Tokyo. Tuition is ¥850,000/year ($7,800) plus textbooks and accommodation.
http://www.incul.com/eng/japanese_school/
Accommodation can be in the school dorms, at ¥67,000/month for 2 people, utilities included ($310/month each.) Or you can rent a single-room apartment in Tokyo, which starts at ¥60,000 ($550) plus utilities (water, power...) Finally there's the home-stay option, which costs around ¥5,000 ($46) per night, including breakfast, dinner, and otherwise living with a Japanese family.
All things considered, Tokyo can be quite expensive, so if you are on a budget, choosing a school in a minor town and only visiting Tokyo on the weekends may be the best option. Japan has excellent public transport, as you probably know.
Some people choose to stay in the campus dorms during the week and at their Japanese family's during weekends, to avoid commuting too much, while still getting a glimpse of the Japanese lifestyle. Others choose a school and dorms in one town, and a Japanese host family in another town, so they can study in Tokyo, for example, but have a place to stay in Kyoto during weekends and holidays. If you are below 30 you also have the option of Borderless Tokyo share houses:
http://borderless-tokyo.com/
In my case, I'm in my late 30s, so this entire thing is already crazy enough! I'm not sure home-staying at a Japanese family would be appropriate. I'll have to talk with my school about that. If it's OK, then I may try it. Otherwise, I'll start with the dorms and later on move to an apartment.
Another well known school is ISI - International Study Institute, with a big campus in Takadanobaba (Tokyo) and centres in Ikebukuro (Tokyo), Kyoto, and Nagano. This may be a more serious school and university? I'm not sure. You can see the fees on their website, they are similar to the ones for Intercultural:
http://www.isi-education.com/
Then there's Lexis Japan, with a modern campus in Kobe:
http://www.lexisjapan.com/
And then there's Kyoto Minsai Japanese Language School; Arc Academy at Tokyo, Osaka, and Kyoto; and so many more!
Choosing a school is really overwhelming, considering it will dictate how much you spend, where you live for the next year or two, how well you'll learn the language, what people you'll meet and what options it will open for you once school is over.
Later today I'll be speaking with someone from my local school (I've been taking Japanese classes at night) who manages visas and applications to these schools, so I'll probably have more info and will hopefully have decided where to apply myself!
School terms start in April, but most of them also accept enrollment in July, October, and January. They have students of all levels, so they will test you and place you in a class appropriate to yours.
Be mindful that you have to start doing visa paperwork at least 6 months before your departure. I hope I can still make it for July. Among other things, you have to show the Japanese government your bank statement, to prove that you can afford the school tuition and living expenses for the duration of the course; proof of school enrollment or occupation for the past year, to show that you have not been unemploye...
So as this conversation started, your plan is to do the language thing for the visa and then try to transfer into an engineering position?
1. Actually learn the language. Even if I could find a job in Japan that didn't require being fluent in Japanese, which I probably could, I wouldn't want to. It's going to be hard enough to live and work in a foreign country, especially one where you'll always be considered an outsider even if you live there your entire life (there's much about this on the Internet if you care to know more) that I really don't plan to get a job before achieving basic fluency. Not being able to communicate with the people around you is the most frustrating experience. Not being able to read and write is called illiteracy and is just as bad. School it is, for one year at the very minimum, maybe two.
2. Take an extended break from work, because I need it (and luckily I can afford it.) But I don't want to do nothing on a beach or backpack from place to place. I'm not good at vacationing in general and I hate travelling. I know I need to stay in a stable place and keep myself occupied with goals and a schedule.
3. Experience a longer stay in Japan (not as a tourist) to evaluate whether I really prefer it to my home country (Italy.) I think I will, for several reasons, but you never know, I may hate it there after a while. So whenever I decide to end the language school experience (tuition is paid 6 months at a time, so you have some flexibility) I will know whether to look for a job there or not.
The student visa is just the most practical way to achieve these 3 goals.
Right now I'm still debating which school and which town to go to, which is a HUGE choice, that could make or break the experience. Here is a page from ISI that summarizes the strengths of studying in Tokyo, Nagano, and Kyoto:
http://www.isi-education.com/location/
Here is a similar page from ARC Academy about Tokyo, Osaka, and Kyoto:
http://japanese.arc-academy.net/en/
Finally, Intercultural has its school and student apartments in Akihabara, which is the center of modern Japanese subculture (anime, tech, games) which I cannot say I dislike, as well as being right in the center of Tokyo:
http://www.incul.com/eng/japanese_school/
If you are considering this route too, what are your thoughts on the various cities and schools?
The ISI campus of Takadanobaba looks like a huge college campus, with mostly college-age kids from Asia, while the Akihabara school is much smaller and should have people of all ages from all over the world. The ISI school in Ikebukuro would be great for meeting actual Japanese people, because it's in the same building as their Business school, but they don't have any place left for this July.
Nagano is too much remote a location for me. But Kyoto is an awesome city, and Osaka and Kobe seem great places too. They are less expensive and crowded than Tokyo, while still being big, modern cities... but they are not Tokyo...
Damn it's hard! I need to make up my mind and fill an application form in a couple of days, if I am to get my visa for July. Wish me luck.
One of my ex bosses came to china without a degree and they wouldn’t issue him the work permit. He had to beg the university he attended but barely didn’t graduate from to issue him a degree with his work experience used for the remaining credits.
I lived in Tokyo for a year, and it's actually quite easy to get a job as a computer engineer there. Several of my friend came with a tourist visa (or Working Holiday visa) and managed to get a visa sponsorship from companies who wanted to hire them. I'm not saying it's super easy, but it is doable. And believe me, there is a shortage of web / mobile engineer in Tokyo.
Finally, don't worry too much about the gap year. Just go there and you'll find something. Go to events and meetups and you ll find plenty of people to talk to. You'll find a lot of opportunities that way.
Wish you the best
you can also have a look at this guy blog: http://www.tokyodev.com/ lots of tips on how to work as a gaijin engineer in japan
https://hntokyo.io