I can still use my fallback minimalist window manager for another few years!
I don’t mean to root against open source developers, but every aspect of the Linux stack that’s been rewritten recently is a major regression over what I used 10 years ago, and I’m frankly tired of change for change’s sake breaking stuff I rely on to do my job.
Xorg is the crappiest piece of software I have ever used.
If I had an euro for every time I was unable to log in because of corrupted Xauthority I'd be rich. Its inner workings are absolutely retarded, and I pity anyone who is forced to develop for it.
This is horrible news.
Also, are you sure your WM won't be updated to work with Wayland..?
I’ve never had a corrupted xauthority. I’d guess there’s a bug in some component other than X. (Does X11 even create the .Xauthority? Isn’t that the display manager (like xdm)’s job?)
Have you tried i3wm? I switched to it permanently a few years ago and never looked back. Here [0] is my config. Sway [1], a port of i3wm to Wayland, is kind of stable as well.
You know I would be happy if the Linux community produced one working desktop environment instead of 2-10 different versions for each component depending on how difficult that component is to implement.
I know what you mean and my frustation goes beyond that. All my servers and many tools are all Linux based, but my desktop dev environment haven't change in years (even when I hop from LTS to LTS). It's mostly abstracted with my own GUI code so when people start fucking with the underlying and regular components I can just do a quick fix on my side. When I'm customizing my Linux desktop (CLI aside) I feel like I'm wasting my time just to make things work, not have a prehistorical workflow and minimize the GUI toolkit hell. Ironically, on Windows I feel like an actual power user when I'm making scripts and automating workflows. Not sure why, it's just how I feel.
Maybe the annoyances are from the lack of a core desktop experience/"interface" (not talking about GUI) that feels familiar (especially for new users). I bet it also scares developers from other platforms and commercial initiatives. I'm all in for freedom but a "default stack" is desperately needed.
You go to a Apple, Google or Microsoft conference, GUI programming talks are about how to implement good UI/UX and take the best advantage of their tools for UI development, usually with workflow exemples from concept up to final product.
Most GUI tracks on GNU/Linux conferences are about low level details how to make certain drivers work, ongoing XWindows refactorings, or refactorings on GUI libraries.
So it is clear which tech do eventually GUI focused developers go to.
Read the FAQ entry I linked to. (Specifically, the "How can I replace Wayland's Window Manager?" heading; the anchor doesn't seem to work properly.)
Standalone window managers aren't a thing in the Wayland ecosystem, no more than they are under Windows or macOS. Much of the functionality which would be implemented by an X11 WM is either built into the Wayland compositor, or delegated to clients.
The only difference I notice between window managers is configuration options: is there a shortcut to send the window to another workspace..? Can you resize when maximized, etc.
I think this decision makes sense, especially from a support perspective.
I understand that Wayland is good and working for a large number of users in Fedora. however I'd be inclined to think that Canonical may choose to go Wayland in 18.10 at the earliest giving them most of the cycle to 20.04 to work out the kinks, likewise we can hope for improvements in GPU support along the way.
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[ 3.4 ms ] story [ 53.3 ms ] threadI can still use my fallback minimalist window manager for another few years!
I don’t mean to root against open source developers, but every aspect of the Linux stack that’s been rewritten recently is a major regression over what I used 10 years ago, and I’m frankly tired of change for change’s sake breaking stuff I rely on to do my job.
If I had an euro for every time I was unable to log in because of corrupted Xauthority I'd be rich. Its inner workings are absolutely retarded, and I pity anyone who is forced to develop for it.
This is horrible news.
Also, are you sure your WM won't be updated to work with Wayland..?
http://www.6809.org.uk/evilwm/
I’ve never had a corrupted xauthority. I’d guess there’s a bug in some component other than X. (Does X11 even create the .Xauthority? Isn’t that the display manager (like xdm)’s job?)
[0] https://bitbucket.org/carun/dot-files/src/tip/.i3-config
[1] http://swaywm.org
If not, we'd all be using OS/2 on IBM PCs instead of Windows, Macs, Linux, etc.
Maybe the annoyances are from the lack of a core desktop experience/"interface" (not talking about GUI) that feels familiar (especially for new users). I bet it also scares developers from other platforms and commercial initiatives. I'm all in for freedom but a "default stack" is desperately needed.
Most GUI tracks on GNU/Linux conferences are about low level details how to make certain drivers work, ongoing XWindows refactorings, or refactorings on GUI libraries.
So it is clear which tech do eventually GUI focused developers go to.
Window managers are inherently specific to the X11 ecosystem. They interact with the X server on a low level that doesn't translate over to Wayland. See also: https://wayland.freedesktop.org/faq.html#heading_toc_j_11
Standalone window managers aren't a thing in the Wayland ecosystem, no more than they are under Windows or macOS. Much of the functionality which would be implemented by an X11 WM is either built into the Wayland compositor, or delegated to clients.
What features would you personally miss?
Not the parent, but yes, in my case, my WM maintainers have stated that it won't be updated to work with wayland.
I can only hope that when (if?) wayland becomes the standard, there is a compatability layer that allows to run wayland apps from withing xorg.
I understand that Wayland is good and working for a large number of users in Fedora. however I'd be inclined to think that Canonical may choose to go Wayland in 18.10 at the earliest giving them most of the cycle to 20.04 to work out the kinks, likewise we can hope for improvements in GPU support along the way.